Gras rifle experience?

[Donor8x56r]

I'm considering getting one of the above ,late version,modified by French to 8x50 Lebel.Rifle is in a very decent shape judging from pictures

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/1434/921c.th.jpg (http://img153.imageshack.us/i/921c.jpg/)http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/4116/921bi.th.jpg (http://img97.imageshack.us/i/921bi.jpg/)http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/807/921xo.th.jpg (http://img299.imageshack.us/i/921xo.jpg/)http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/9849/921ew.th.jpg (http://img413.imageshack.us/i/921ew.jpg/)http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/2462/921dn.th.jpg (http://img833.imageshack.us/i/921dn.jpg/)

I wonder if anyone has/had any personal experience with rifle like this.How is a sight picture on those,what is a rate of twist in the barrel,what kind of accuracy I can expect with Casts?

I know this is a very old grandma so i wouldn't even imagine pushing her with heavy loads but i think she can stand pressures generated with Trail boss or Red Dot.Would C324-175-1R boolit be adequate for this or different weight is in order here?

Thanks for looking :)

[Freightman]

I had a Gras but it wasn't 8mm Lebel it was a 45 cal that you had to make the brass from 348 Winchester brass and load with a 45acp sizing die. shot fine but someone else wanted it for three times what I paid for it so I sold it. You might find some information here.
http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewforum.php?f=149

[jonk]

Just don't fire full power 8mm Lebel in it and you should be fine. Reduced loads with cast.

[twotoescharlie]

pretty stout load for a rifle that has only the bolt handle for a locking lug.

TTC

[Donor8x56r]

Update-Range report:

After some considerations I got myself a Christmas gift:

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/3726/dsc01029k.jpg (http://img440.imageshack.us/i/dsc01029k.jpg/)



Action,fit of parts and general fit is just about perfect for over 100 years old rifle

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/1707/dsc01034d.jpg (http://img442.imageshack.us/i/dsc01034d.jpg/)


http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/9622/dsc01035s.jpg (http://img163.imageshack.us/i/dsc01035s.jpg/)

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/7577/dsc01028i.jpg (http://img33.imageshack.us/i/dsc01028i.jpg/)


I loaded 25 rds with 12 Gr of Red Dot and up 0.3 Gr every 5 rds.Case was toped with 165 Gr Lyman boolit.

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/4742/dsc01046wv.jpg (http://img259.imageshack.us/i/dsc01046wv.jpg/)

Result is as follows:

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/7479/dsc01031r.jpg (http://img217.imageshack.us/i/dsc01031r.jpg/)

This is a 100yrs target.2 groups 5 shot each above target are from Gras,one on the left is a group from M48A .I used battle sight marked 250 if I remember correctly and here is something I don't understand.Only 10 shots landed on paper,rest went above it into backstop ( some 40-50 ft mountain of dirt :) )
I shot one group with M48A loaded with same boolit ,but 13.8 Gr of Red Dot and sights have to be set for 500m ( again ,it might be 400m -I can't remember).
Is barrel length making really so much difference?Why is this rifle shooting so high?

Btw-those battle sights are absolutely the worst sights i have ever used.400m and up are very fine ,maybe too fine for war rifle but 250m are horrible.

[Donor8x56r]

More pix
.There is a lot of various proof,acceptance and other marks:

http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/6581/dsc01005o.jpg (http://img831.imageshack.us/i/dsc01005o.jpg/)

http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/1383/dsc01016ln.jpg (http://img697.imageshack.us/i/dsc01016ln.jpg/)

Letter L is very prominently stamped on pretty much all all the parts

http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/7335/dsc01014hn.jpg (http://img251.imageshack.us/i/dsc01014hn.jpg/)

As suggested by CGN member I looked for capital letter somewhere in the receiver

indicating what kind of ammo rifle was sighted for.None was found except for

small letter F right behind rear sight,it can be seen when sight is raised

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/5666/dsc01020fg.jpg (http://img3.imageshack.us/i/dsc01020fg.jpg/)



Other markings

http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/7434/dsc01012z.jpg (http://img585.imageshack.us/i/dsc01012z.jpg/)

http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/4724/dsc01011bx.jpg (http://img695.imageshack.us/i/dsc01011bx.jpg/)

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/9501/dsc01010z.jpg (http://img403.imageshack.us/i/dsc01010z.jpg/)

On the underside ,behind trigger guard there is a name stamped- GURIAM A

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/699/dsc01009n.jpg (http://img233.imageshack.us/i/dsc01009n.jpg/)

And that's pretty much it.

[Vly]

Hi Donor - I have a Gras in the 11mm chambering. I had some brass made up from a guy who turned them on a lathe, and also made reloading dies. I have fired it with blackpowder loads. I also have the bayonet. Some photos -

http://www.fototime.com/620A96648B90D42/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/8A59D2595C2CBEE/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/A94927AA5B12B91/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/8A55C9A8E374050/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/F321E2329AEDD67/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/C79331667C5993E/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/A0A8FF992632082/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/94901807C337821/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/46B990E94313E9B/standard.jpg

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Hi Donor - I have a Gras in the 11mm chambering. I had some brass made up from a guy who turned them on a lathe, and also made reloading dies. I have fired it with blackpowder loads. I also have the bayonet.

Vly,
you got me wanting to play around with my Gras.
Do you have a mould ?
Jon

http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu127/JonB_in_Glencoe/100_1292.jpg

http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu127/JonB_in_Glencoe/100_1296.jpg

[leadman]

Donor, if you haven't slugged the bore you may want to do this. Some of the old 8mm were quite a bit larger, up to .330".

JonB, what size mold do you need? I have a .446" I use for my 43 cal Mauser.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Leadman,
umm 11mm ????
actually I haven't slugged it.
20 years ago when I was given this rifle, I wasn't a reloader or caster.
I had a gunsmith make me 20 rounds of ammo.
I've shot 3 rounds and kept 17 for ???? no real reason I guess.
I should shoot them up, the try to reload them, after I slug the barrel.
Jon

[Vly]

Hey Jon - Very nice Gras you have there. The model designation of yours is slightly different than mine, though they are the same rifle. My photo is poor, but the Model is 1866 and then the "74" was stamped later. Mine is a conversion, not sure if yours is also.

I use a Lyman 439186, which is for the 43 Spanish. Quite some time has past since I played with this rifle. I know I posted about it on the old Shooter.com board, to give some idea. This spring I will need to give it another go. I've learned a few things in the intervening years which should help.

I know it was fun making smoke with this rifle!

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I assume mine was manufactured (not converted) in 1875
all numbers match (except Bayo and scab.)
it is almost museum quality,
you'll see the one flaw in the stock,
just below the MA (rosewood ?) insert with the date 1875
the other photo has what I think is a date code stamped into the barrel S. 1875
Jon

http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu127/JonB_in_Glencoe/100_1529.jpg

http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu127/JonB_in_Glencoe/100_1530.jpg

[Donor8x56r]

Donor, if you haven't slugged the bore you may want to do this. Some of the old 8mm were quite a bit larger, up to .330".

JonB, what size mold do you need? I have a .446" I use for my 43 cal Mauser.

Actually I did slug the bore.I went with 2 slugs on both ends of the barrel and it measures .327 at the throat and .324 at the muzzle.

I have tried .330 Lee cast and my Gras does chamber it nicely ,except group goes even further up-about 3 ft over point of aim.

I have just recieved brand new molds 8mm Max and Kar (both Lee) ,I have to see if they will cast .327.




Those are some great rifles guys.I have been looking into getting one of 11mm models until I came across detailed info on Chassepot -predecessor of Gras.

Brass for older cartridges is getting insanely expensive up in Canada so I'm on a hunt for a Chassepot :)