Best Mold for .357 Mag?

[cricco]

Hi guys. I am seeking advice on a mold for my Dan Wesson .357 mag. I would like an accurate boolit that I can load hot. I'm not sure if I need gas checks or not, but that's part of why I'm here asking advice. I prefer a Lee mold, as I don't have handles for anything else. If you have a used mold I could buy, that's would be good also. Thanks for any sugestions.

[82nd airborne]

What are you using it for?

[cbrick]

RCBS 180 Gr Silhouette (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=160766)

[docone31]

My Dan Wesson likes the Lee 150 RF sized to .358.
I use Blue Dot.
No leading with it, and home made lube. I pan lube them.

[cricco]

What are you using it for?

Target mostly, but I would like to be able to use it for hunting also.

[Doby45]

MOST 357 Magnum hunting boolits are not what you would consider "target" boolits. Hunting boolits are more than likely gas checked and a little bit heavier. I would not try to find a "single" boolit in this exploit of yours because the 38cal molds are cheap and easy to find. Pick you a nice "hunting" boolit, and then a nice "target" boolit. Your cheap and easy really good target boolits can range from a WC to a TC or a SWC. $20 Lee mold and your good to go. The hunting boolit you will prolly want GCed and possibly even HPed.

[Guesser]

I have been using a Lyman 358156 in 357 revolvers and carbines and T/C Contenders for almost 40 years. Tried several others, but came back and settled. For lower pressure loads and 38 Special I like 358311, accurate and very easy to cast.

[MakeMineA10mm]

I have been using a Lyman 358156 in 357 revolvers and carbines and T/C Contenders for almost 40 years. Tried several others, but came back and settled. For lower pressure loads and 38 Special I like 358311, accurate and very easy to cast.

This is THE classic 357 boolit. Skeeter Skelton wrote heavily about it, and most members here at CB who cast for 357 have at least one incarnation. It is very flexible with it's two crimp grooves, allowing it to be loaded to a longer OAL in 38 brass or shorter OAL in the "front" crimp groove for 357 brass. It wears a gas check so there's LESS (note I didn't say "no") worry about leading, and theoretically (if you do other things right like sizing to throat diameter and choosing an appropriate alloy) you can push it into higher velocities, because of it. The nose shape is a good hunting bullet, and it's engagement length and overall shape/dimensions make it pretty accurate.

Here's mine which is a two cavity that had one cavity converted to HPs by Buckshot (a member here at CB):
http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=90&pictureid=449
(Note that the picture above shows both halves of a single mould with two different HP pins laying on each half.)

Here's a pic of the boolits that mould makes:
http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=179&pictureid=1035

[Larry Gibson]

+ another for the Lyman 358156 for maximum performance (accuracy and terminal ballistics) .357 Magnum loads. Cast then out of WWs +2% tin and you can shoot them to 1500+ out of longer barreled revolvers, 1800 fps out of 10" Contenders and carbines. All with excellent accuracy. For hunting I cast them soft (1-16 tin - lead or 50/50 WW/lead) and HP them with a 1/8" Forster HP tool. Been working for me in numerous revolvers, Contenders and a couple carbines for 40+ years.

Larry Gibson

[MakeMineA10mm]

Also, if you shoot them low-velocity for practice, you can load them without the expensive gas checks and shoot them with still a lot of accuracy. One issue with that is the lube getting on the gas check shank, so I got in on Matt's Group Buy here of a plain base version of this bullet. Many people also have some or all of their cavities on original Lyman moulds "dehorned" where they have the gas check shank machined off so the mould casts plain base versions.

I'll try to get some pics of Matt's plain base version next to the Lyman original. He did a great job re-balancing the design with the gas check shank removed.

[Blammer]

yea, $18 per 1,000 358 GC's is just TOO expensive....:bigsmyl2:

[AnthonyB]

Blammer, where can I get 35 gas checks for $18 per thousand? I must have missed somethin....
Tony

[462]

"I prefer a Lee mold..."

Lee 358-158-RF (plain base).

[MakeMineA10mm]

yea, $18 per 1,000 358 GC's is just TOO expensive....:bigsmyl2:


Blammer, where can I get 35 gas checks for $18 per thousand? I must have missed somethin....
Tony

Man, Blammer, you probably fish with gill-nets, don't ya?!? :mrgreen:


(Anthony - Blammer can hook you up with very good, inexpensive gas checks. He was trolling and caught you up in his net! LOL!! :mrgreen: )

[Cowboy T]

"I prefer a Lee mold..."

Lee 358-158-RF (plain base).

I like that one, too, but specifically the 6-cavity model. Why? 'Cause it happens to shoot very well out of my gun, it's relatively inexpensive, and I can cast a boatload of 'em thanks to those 6 cavities.

The "best" mould for .357 Magnum is the one that you like casting with and enjoy shooting the boolits that come from it. It depends entirely on you, the shooter.

[JIMinPHX]

You didn't say what kind of hunting you planned to do. If you plan to hunt something big, then I would recommend a heavy boolit. Ranch Dog offers a dandy one in that diameter, but loading data is limited.

If you want a good little target boolit that doesn't use up too much lead, then it's hard to beat the little 105 grain semiwadcutter from Lee. That would also be good for hunting little stuff like maybe foxes or coyotes, but would not be a good choice for something bigger like deer.

You could also pick a more general purpose boolit. Most of the ones in the range near 158 grain would make a good one-boolit-does-all type selection. The round nose flat point from Lee (cowboy boolit) is not a bad choice. Most of the semiwadcutters in that weight class work well doing double duty as hunting boolits. Everyone seems to have their favorite, but I can't actually think of a bad one. Full wadcutters are not the best choice for long range shots though.

If you are just starting out casting, you may find it easier to get good fill out on an iron mold with rounded features. They tend to be a little more forgiving. The Lyman 358477 comes to mind.

As for gas checks, if you use the right powder, alloy, heat treat, sizing die, etc. & if your throats and barrel are in good shape, then you can probably get away without them unless you really push your luck, velocity wise. If you do use gas checks, then it will be easier to get good results without leading. It kind of depends on your priorities. Do you have a lot of time to invest in experimenting? Do you have the money to spend on gas checks? Are you going to be loading really really hot?

[lylejb]

"I prefer a Lee mold..."

Lee 358-158-RF (plain base).

+1 on that.

My Dan Wesson loves them.

Have loaded them as low as 650 upto about 1250 with only a touch of leading in the forcing cone / leade rifling. May be able to go a bit higher with an alloy change, if I wanted to. ( but I don't want to, If I need more that's what the 44 is for:bigsmyl2:)

[dunkel]

Ok couple of follow up questions.

I'm thinking I'd like to start with either a 158 or 180gr SWC. Loading light for plinking and hotter for hunting. Does this sound unreasonable?

Second, if I go with a gas check mold, will it hurt anything to simply skip actually putting in the GC for the lighter loads? Just using them for the hot loads?

Third, what kind of fps are we talking before a gc becomes necessary? I'm going for simplicity, so will hopefully be using the same equipment and loads for both my 16" Rossi 92 and 6.5" Ruger Blackhawk.

Sorry if I sound like a total noob. It's only because I'm a total noob.

[missionary5155]

Good morning
I am partial to Lyman 358429. This mold casts a 172 grainer of 50/50 and has been very accurate in every 357 revolver I have tried.
If you start getting it into high pressures cast it of pure WW. Then if nereded add a flat GC to the base and push it even faster.
The RCBS 180 GC is what I shoot 2 seasons of Steel with my Dan 15-2 with a 10 inch barrel. It is very accurate at the faster fps.

[Lloyd Smale]

Ive had good luck with the lee 150rf in 38s and 357s. As to the expense of gas checks i figure ive got 30k in loading gear and many more times that in guns and a few cents for gas checks is about the most trivial thing i could worry about. Guys complain about there cost but dont bat an eyelash about buying 10 differnt boxes of jacketed bullets to find the one that shoots best in there rifle. You can lecture me till your blue in the face about the pros and cons of gas checks but ive shot enough handguns with cast to know that in most cases a gas checked bullet is more accurate. Not only that but it gives a gun much more latitude in ajusting speed and alloy to not only get accuracy but to get good bullet perfomance on game. especially when your fooling with hps. I can look at my loading data and see that just about every one of my sixguns best load is with a gas checked bullet. Not only that but if economics are really a factor your probably going to burn so much more powder and primers finding the sweet spot for a plain based bullet that the cost of the gas check is probalbly saving you money in the long run. Plus blammer has to make a few dollars once in a while to put shoes on his kids ;)

[Blammer]

I like the lee 358 158 RF, I've had them up to 1200fps with no leading and just ww alloy.

I would have NO problem huningtin with them as they have a nice meplat and the wt and velocity will do the job easy on deer.

By the same token, I've killed two deer with my NEI and NOE 360 180gr RF, both GC'ed and doing 1600fps out of my 357mag rifle. Both did a great job.

makeminea10mm, I prefer to fish with hook line and sinker. :)

[Bob J]

Another vote for the 358429.... Very accurate in my guns....


Good morning
I am partial to Lyman 358429. This mold casts a 172 grainer of 50/50 and has been very accurate in every 357 revolver I have tried.
If you start getting it into high pressures cast it of pure WW. Then if nereded add a flat GC to the base and push it even faster.
The RCBS 180 GC is what I shoot 2 seasons of Steel with my Dan 15-2 with a 10 inch barrel. It is very accurate at the faster fps.

[MakeMineA10mm]

358429 is certainly a classic, but the nose length CAN (not always) make the cartridge too long for the cylinder when loaded in 357 cases. This is only for certain revolvers, must notably the N-Frame S&Ws.

Probably the ultimate "cheap" bullet, in terms of less alloy and no gas checks, while still giving good accuracy and shoot-ability is something along the lines of the Lyman 358477. I like it too.



BTW, the original poster said he likes Lee moulds BECAUSE he wants to use Lee handles. A good tip is that Lee handles work on most other brands of moulds as well. I currently use Lee handles on my Lyman, Saeco, and Lee moulds. Had to make a very small modification to get them to work on the Saeco mould, but it's as simple as drilling a slightly larger hole for the screw.

Now, that all said, there's certainly nothing wrong with the Lee 158gr RNFP, and I traded into one of those, which I then traded back out of, but in the mean time, I cast up a couple thousand of them, and still have over 500 left. They're good boolits, but as far as "classic" boolits that can be driven fast, I still prefer the 156.

[MakeMineA10mm]

Here is a pic of the Lee 158 RNFP, Lyman 358156, CB Group buy PB version of the 358156, Lyman 358480 (133gr), and CB Group buy Slippery 9mm (135 gr).

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=179&pictureid=2750

[smilie=w:

Sorry, didn't have any 358429s to put in the picture to compare...

.

[cricco]

Update:

I want to thank you all for taking the time to offer such thoughtful suggestions. I did order a Lee 358-158-RF mold today, and I'm hoping it will work well for me. I will probably try to find a good gas check mold also in the future, because I would like to work up some hot loads for my Dan Wesson. Again, I thank you guys.

[bootsnthejeep]

I was a long-time devotee of the 358156, but I did find the gas checks to be a pain in the butt. But anyway, I lucked into an old-style unmolested 358429 for a song, and found I liked it even more, and no gas checks. The little extra thump doesn't hurt either. I worship at the shrines of St. Skeeter AND St. Elmer, so I'm not biased. :)

They both shoot well in all my 357s and both my 38s. No length issues so far. Shot exceptionally well in my 5" model 10 before I let a friend handle it and he decided he had to have it. Shoulda kept that on in the safe...

When was that GB 358156 run? What's not to love about that little sweetheart?

Don't suppose there's an extra one of those kicking around anywhere...

[MakeMineA10mm]

boots,
It was run a couple years ago by Matt (Dutch4122). The thread for it is here:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=23956

I believe NOE is offering a version of this mould in their standard catalog of designs.

[HeavyMetal]

BIL has a DW and the 358429, seated at the crimp groove, is to long for it.

Bought an RCBS 38 150 SWC and it has been my go to boolit for 38 357 loads for over 30 years.
Loaded in 357 cases with 14 grains WW296 this load gets it done all the time!

[ocelott]

after looking at the Lee 358158RF will it still load and cycle in the marlin? For 357 mag loads?

[GLL]

Five of my favorites ! I am very happy I got my BRP molds when I did ! :)

I will agree with HeavyMetal that the RCBS 38 150 SWC is a great choice as well.

Jerry

BRP 360-180GC
http://www.fototime.com/0D76FBEA2170344/standard.jpg

BRP 360-200GC
http://www.fototime.com/EC9A2CDBCE190B9/standard.jpg

NOE 358429 Al’s photo !
http://www.fototime.com/04A92045FB64E46/standard.jpg

BRP 360640 Bruce’s photo !
http://www.fototime.com/C48C63EB6405234/standard.jpg

[Bret4207]

The Lyman 358156 has worked good in everything I've used it in. In my alloy they drop about 163-4 grs.

[hes]

Blammer has great gas checks and service.

[PacMan]

I am with Loyld Smyle on his coments about using GCs.

This is only my thoughts on the matter as it pertains to new casters.
If the new caster can afford to and has means for using a GC design i think that he should.The reason is that load development will most likely be easier and less chances of having to deal with leading issues.Once the new caster gets things going his or her way they can branch out if so desired to PB designs and find what makes them work.

I would double that advice if shooting magnum guns. If the gun is a 357 mag and the ideal is to load mild at some point,more likely sooner than one thinks, they are going to want to push the mag to magnum levels.

Ever now and then you see someone selling all their molds,sizers and casting equipt. and i can not help but think that they started out on the uphill road and grew flustrated with it all.

Just my thoughts.

[mpbarry1]

That BRP 158 grain GC mold looks awesome!! but i see BRP is retired, so what other options are there? I would be very interested in one.

[MtGun44]

IMO, gas checks are a needless expense and complication for magnum revolvers.

I have many loads for .357 and .44 mag, plus ".45 magnum" loads for .45 Colt which
do not use GCs. I used to think that they were a benefit, and once I found that it was
easy to do without the little boogers, I gave them up entirely and they are not missed
at all.

Lee 357-158 RF, Lyman 358477, RCBS 38-150-SWC (old 38-150-K) are wonderful, fit
all guns. 358429 is excellent in std and hp versions, but a few short cylinder guns will
have issues. The powder charge in the second one is not marked but is 16.3 H110, IIRC.
These are all hot loads with wheelwt alloy air cooled, or softer. Hard water dropped is
not necessary either, IME. Two are 8BHN range scrap. So much for the "requirement"
for GCs, water dropped linotype super hard boolits to work in full power .357 loads.

These also work about the same in a Ruger Security Six, and S&W 66, too. I have
a number of .38 Spl guns that like these same boolits, too.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=161&pictureid=929
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=161&pictureid=928
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=161&pictureid=926
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=161&pictureid=925

Bill

[EDK]

That BRP 158 grain GC mold looks awesome!! but i see BRP is retired, so what other options are there? I would be very interested in one.

NIGHT OWL ENTERPRISES has a current group buy for 360160 double crimp groove (or some similar description) that is a slightly modified 358156. "I'm kinda broke and my allowance is in hock roughly forever," but I am going to scrounge up a couple dollars and order one before the group buy closes. Get yourself a five cavity and depending on what and how high pressure your reloads are, get a mix of plain base and gas check cavities. I like 4 plain base and 1 gas check. I shoot mostly revolvers in 357, but like the gas check option for "rifle specific" loads for my MARLIN Cowboy rifles.

UNCLE ED'S LAW: If you need to shoot a maximum load, you need a bigger gun!

:Fire::cbpour::redneck:

PS: There ain't no flies on 360 180 WFN from NOE...set up with 4 PB and 1 GC... and RANCH DOG just came out with his boolit design for 357 MARLINS at about 175 grains.

[MakeMineA10mm]

after looking at the Lee 358158RF will it still load and cycle in the marlin? For 357 mag loads?

It should... You may have to experiment with that. I've seen some rifles that needed that bullet seated a little deeper and crimped on the ogive, just ahead of the built-in crimp groove. Just be careful not to go too far, so that the crimp gets a good bite on the bullet, because in a lever-gun with tube magazine, you have to worry about telescoping. To test, take a round that is short enough to cycle well, crimp it in a separate operation, and then push the bullet end of the loaded round against your reloading bench hard. If the bullet falls into the case, you don't have enough crimp, or you are having to seat too deeply to get a good crimp. If it's the former, adjust the crimp die to bite harder. If it's the latter, you'll either have to switch to 38 brass, or find another bullet...

[MakeMineA10mm]

Hmmm... Gerry's boolits are always nicer-looking, and his photography is always better. :|

:mrgreen:

[maglvr]

I've got 4 D/W 357's, I use for bear hunting.
Even though I cast my own, I just ordered 2000 more Missouri Bullet Co. 180gr striker's.
The Dan's love them as does my Marlin 1894C.
They hit like a sledge hammer, penetrate for days and the price is darn hard to beat!
They have no gas check, come sized .358 and lubed(I tumble lube them also). and I get no leading even in the Marlin.
My load for them in all guns is..........
12.5gr 2400 over a small RIFLE primer.
I couldn't be happier!!!

[nanuk]

....
By the same token, I've killed two deer with my .... NOE 360 180gr RF, .... GC'ed and doing 1600fps out of my 357mag rifle.



that is exactly why I bought the brass NOE360180

Now I'm also looking at a 357 SingleShot, and dumping my IMI Timberwolf

should make a Dandy WT rifle for Bush Ground Blind hunting

[maglvr]

Another vote for the 358429, amazing what it can do in 38spl brass, loaded as Lord Elmer intended it to be!

[kelbro]

The new RanchDog 175gr http://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_5_56&products_id=124 seems like it will be making headlines soon. Short, fat, and has a large meplat.

Trying out my first loads with them tomorrow in the Marlin. Next will be the DW and the 586. (yes, I was casting today in the garage when it was 115°!)

[357shooter]

358-429 is the most accurate with a stiff load of magnum powder. It's the second most accurate for other loads.

TL-358-158-SWC from Lee is the most accurate for all other loads. It's the second most accurate for magnum loads.

Note: Still have to try the RCBS 180 Silhouette.

[geraldsd]

Lee makes a 158 gr flat nose plain base boolit that performs very well. Like was mentioned before don't rty to get one boolit to do all things. I use this for practice. I use 2.8 gr. Bullseye (could be bumped up a little) and shoot a lot. When I want more I use a different boolit. I have used the RCBS 180 gr. silhouette, which I like a lot. But It won't always work with a full length case as the bullet might extend past the front of the cylinder. Options are to trim .357 brass till it fits and adjust the load, or use .38 Special brass. I trim my .357 brass and load about 14.8 gr of H110. Great boolit and good shooting load. Don't like to shoot it all day, though.

[ColColt]

The new RanchDog 175gr http://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_5_56&products_id=124 seems like it will be making headlines soon. Short, fat, and has a large meplat.



I see what looks like five crimp grooves in that boolit but no grease grooves? Lube groove not needed for gas check type boolits? The 44 equivalent is the same.

[357shooter]

I see what looks like five crimp grooves in that boolit but no grease grooves? Lube groove not needed for gas check type boolits? The 44 equivalent is the same.The Ranch Dog bullets are machined by Lee, and are the tumble lube design.

[mstarling]

I must admit that I do like the .357 Magnum, but have never felt it was as good for heavier game as the 41 or 44 Rem Mags. As a result, I used to load the Lyman 358477 bullet in the .357. Good enough for deer at shorter ranges.

For longer ranges or places where there is larger game is possible I will carry a 41 Mag loaded with the H&G 256 210 gr bullet or a 44 Mag loaded with the H&G 45 240 gr bullet.

Thus far, the longest deer kill has been 124 yards lasered with a 6" S&W M57 41 Rem Mag fitted with a 2x Leupold with Beuhler rings.