WOW Trail Boss is expensive

[reloader28]

Is it just around here, or is this stuff really $28/pound everywhere???

Was going to buy a can and try it today when I saw the price was $15/ can. I thought "thats pretty good" and was going to get a couple more when I looked down and saw it was only 9 ounces.

I dont know how that stuff shoots, but it better be the most accurate, cleanest and best powder on the market for every gun for that price.

Needles to say I put the can back on the shelf and walked away.

Is it really that good of a powder for that price???

[meadmkr]

If it fills the requirements for 'ya that yes, its worth the price. At $11 online or about $13 at the local gun shows its cheap enough to try out. I recently picked up 2 cans at the last gun show and haven't had a chance to try it out in my Vaquero (45LC). Everything I've read up on it made me want to give it a shot (pun intended).

I haven't worked out the cost per round but that isn't my primary focus in reloading. For economical loads I tend to pick up in 4# jugs such as Unique or Universal Clays for my pistols or skeet loads.

CW

[MakeMineA10mm]

First off, I only priced it when it was new. It was outrageously expensive then, in my opinion. It came in the same size can as a one-lb powder can, but it only held like 9 ozs., and then it was significantly more expensive than the one-lbers sitting next to it. Turned me completely off.

Then, I remembered reading about the people griping, moaning and downright b!tching about how badly 800x metered, and Trail Boss is significantly bigger. I thought, what's the point?

I do realize it's great for filling up super-big cases with reduced loads, but I just don't have any cases that big, I guess...

The biggest handgun case I reload for myself is the 44 Magnum, and I checked my "light" load of fast powder. I found that 7.5grs of W231 filled up approximately 40% of the case capacity of my 44 Mag cases. The boolit I was using filled up another 40%, so I only had an "air space" of 20% inside that case. Not really a big problem for ignition, and I inspect my cases visually before bullet seating (when single-stage loading), so a double-charge would be easily apparent (80% full case). Then, I got to worrying about my progressive loading, where I don't get a chance to compare 50 cases at a time to each other (as I do in the loading blocks when loading on my single stage). I also threw away my Dillon Powder check die long ago as a PITA. But I tried an experiment. I purposefully double-charged a case with my W231 load, and then tried to seat a bullet. You guessed it, it wouldn't go without a tremendously odd amount of pressure. I didn't try to seat it all the way, as the pressure was really getting up there, so I'm not sure it could even be done.

So, here again, I just don't see the need for it.

I think if I were shooting vastly reduced loads in a really large case, like cast boolit rifle shooters, or if I was making reduced loads for my buddy's 460 S&W Mag, it would have an application, but that is a pretty narrow window, to me...

[hickstick_10]

when you buy a can of trailboss you'l notice 9 ounces still fills the can, darn near to the brim. Powder looks like a bunch of Cheerios. Its a lighter powder but much bulkier.

As far as usefulness, its for filling up a case. The velocities are slow and the weirdest thing about trailboss is its an extremely quiet powder, load a 44 mag with trailboss and get ready to laugh since its slightly louder then a weak 22, its ridiculous how quiet it is.

It does burn cleanly for me, but its more of a novelty powder to me then anything else. Good for plinking and if you feel like blazing away with no earplugs.

I'd still take Unique or imr 4227 over it any day, but now you reminded me I still have 3/4 of a can left of it, so I'l load some 38s for the 1894cb and have another laugh how my rifle sounds like a cap gun.

[eljefe]

I have loaded quite a bit of it, all in cowboy action loads. It is very fluffy, and
darn near impossible to double charge a case. It shoots well, but nearly all the
published data will produce low velocity, low recoil loads.

I would not recommend it unless your goal is to produce low recoiling ammo.
That seems to be the predominant trend in cowboy action shooting.

[garbear]

I have been using Trailboss since Dec in my 357 with cast boolits. My wife tried some re loads tonight and she was happy with the 38's. It shot accurately and the recoil was mild. I have used it n reduced loads for my mosin and my 10 year old shoots them and like the mosin. I will admit I have not tried any other powder for my 357 cast loads. I bought it because of the safety factor. Also it shoots clean. Don't worry about the 9 oz in the same size jug. The powder complete fills the canister up. Give it a whirl you may like the powder.

[TDC]

Yep..... It's a "nitch" powder and it's especially fun to shoot in big bores from 44 mag and up. I've loaded it for 41mag, 44mag, 45LC, and 500S&W..

It's really fun to take to the range, especially loaded for a 500. People who haven't shot a 500 expect to experience the radical recoil they are notorious for. It's fun to see their reaction, not to mention their flinches, after they shoot these loads.

When people realize a 500 can be a "plinker" like most other calibers, they suddenly have a new opinion of this gun. Several people I know have bought them after discovering the new range of load versatility powders like Trail Boss, Unique and 231 can provide when hand loaded..... and still have the versatility of a nasty hot loaded revolver if you need or want it...

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

I think I can get 4 gr in a 38 case, so its not like you use alot of it . . . I got a 5 pound jug of it . . .

I think the first 9 oz was $13.95 so $1.55 an oz, so it really comes to $24.80 a pound, yeah there are cheaper powders, but you could also spend more!

[Jon K]

It's the same cost and number of cases loaded, when compared to Unique, in a case like 44 Mag/45LC average 10 gr load of Unique vs 6 gr TB.....you get the same amount loaded from a can of each powder, and cost per load is the same...........So, how can it be more expensive?

Jon

[frykasj]

For some reason, gun shops around here like to charge the same amount for 9 Oz. Trail Boss as other powders that are full pounds. The logic is that they think no-one will notice that they're getting 7 Oz. less powder in the same can. I recently called them on it, and they lowered the price for me. I stopped in there today, and noticed the cans still had the same price on 'em.

As for the usefulness, I've never had a load for the .45-70 that I felt comfortable shooting without earplugs. And recoil? What recoil?

[zxcvbob]

If you like Trail Boss but it's too expensive, try Alliant Promo. It's about $10 per pound, but only comes in 8# kegs. The load data is the same as for Red Dot but Promo is slightly less bulky. It's still a bulky powder though, and works great with cast bullets.

[PAT303]

Trail boss is very good in regards to rifle plinking loads as it is very safe,you cannot double charge or overcharge rifle cases with it and I like it as I can load my 6.5x55 with a case full of it and it's quiet,very low recoil and doesn't produce heat so for me I can tell if I flinched or jerked the trigger and shoot 40-50 rounds without the rifle running hot.I don't bother with the loads published,I just fill the case to the shoulder and seat the boolit,I've found in the swede,303,8x57 etc that filling the case 90% or more full produced the best results. Pat

[Dale53]

Powder Valley has Trailboss in a 5.0 lb container at $85.50. That's $17.10 a lb.

From time to time, I get together with a couple of friends and make a large primer/powder order so we can split the hazmat fee and shipping. That way, no one gets hurt, too bad.

FWIW
Dale53

[XWrench3]

i was at the gun shop last week, and it was $14.95 here in michigan. sounds to me like somebody out there is trying to make a bunch of cash by over pricing. find another place to buy your powder!:redneck:

[GRid.1569]

in the UK it's typically £24 a tub... Thats,s almost $38 @ todays exchange rates...

and our sales tax (VAT) is going up from 17.5% to 20.0% soon.... :(

Gotta get myself a green card... :violin:

[PAT303]

I have to agree with GRid,you yanks don't know how good you have it.Powder in Oz is $50 a pound regardless of what it is. Pat

[rollmyown]

What Pat and GRid said. Almost all powders here are 45 to 55 AUD (averaged about $47.00USD). The price Dale sid he is able to get trailboss for in the USA is about $10.00 USD cheaper than I can get it for here in Australia. Bearing in mind it's been shipped half way around the globe, that's not bad at all. The only powders that I can can get at a fair price are ADI, and as Dale has demonsrated it can be bought for less in the US sometimes anyway. Be happy, you guys have it good when it comes to prices and choice.

[reloader28]

Thanks alot guyes

I may have to check into that Powder Valley. Thats a good price.

At Cabelas in Billings it was $15/can. I never buy reloading supplies there anyway.

[MakeMineA10mm]

i was at the gun shop last week, and it was $14.95 here in michigan. sounds to me like somebody out there is trying to make a bunch of cash by over pricing. find another place to buy your powder!:redneck:

That's still $26.57 per pound (remember those bottles are only 9 oz in weight in spite of being 1-lb size).

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I guess I didn't take into account the load levels, and that's an important factor. So, in plain view, I'll do a little calculation, just on powder cost, on my "super-light" 44 Magnum load:

5.6grs of W231/HP38 @ $108 / 8lb jug (at Powder Valley) = $.0108 per round
6.0grs Trail Boss (Start load @ Hodgdon) @ $85.50/5lb jug (also at PV) = $.0146 per round

(BTW, that's $17.10/lb - the cheapest I've seen TB anywhere.) Also, something to keep in mind if you mail-order the powder - 4 jugs of 231 is 32 lbs to split the shipping and Haz-Mat fee over, whereas 4 jugs of TB is 20 lbs to split the shipping and Haz-Mat charge over. That's going to inflate the cost of the TB even more, but I didn't take that into account in these calculations.

Now, that doesn't look like a huge difference, but let's extend that out over some numbers:

50 rounds (a box of ammo): [TB] $.73 [231] $.54
1000 rounds: [TB] $14.66 [231] $10.80

OK, so still not a lot. Less than $4 difference at 1000 rounds of ammo. That makes it's "expensiveness" less of an issue, but it IS still more expensive. Now, I'll buy more expensive powder, IF it will give me something.

In this case, it gives me better case filling, so I won't double-charge. That's certainly worth something, especially to a new reloader, but it's not there for me. My load of 5.6grs of W231 is pretty easy to visually inspect, but more importantly, if I do NOT catch a double charge, guess what? 11.2grs of 231 is just .1grs over the max load anyway. Likely not a darn thing will happen to me or the gun, except I'll get a LOT more recoil than I anticipated... A triple charge won't fit in the case with room to seat the bullet, so that problem is out also...

Maybe TB will give better ignition? Well, the question becomes, am I having ignition troubles with my 231 load? 5.6grs of 231 fills up 30% of the empty case space in my 44 Magnum brass. The bullet's seating depth fills up another 40%. That leaves a 30% "air space" in my case. As you might expect, I've never had an ignition problem with that level of load density. So, again, where's the benefit?

I really think TB is a very useful powder, but only for the uses I described above. If I were making 45ACP target-style loads in the 460 S&W Magnum (200gr boolit @ 750fps), I think TB would be a great enhancement, especially for ignition, but also for taking up room in the case to compare load volume for consistency and to avoid double-charges. Likewise, if I was shooting light cast-boolit loads in a large rifle, such as 30-06 or 45-70, again, it would be ideal.

The quietness of it is something I hadn't heard of before, and is intriguing. May have to try some out for that too. Perhaps to load ammo for a new shooter, so a magnum revolver shoots more like a 22 (in this case recoil-wise, my 231 load is already there, but perhaps the TB will also be quieter...) would be a good application.

I shoot CAS with 231 and 44 Russian cases (in short-chambered repros) or with original-style loads (BP), so with that size case, I don't think there's a great call for the "fluffy" TB there either.

It's just not a general use powder for me, and combining that with it's higher cost means I'll probably buy a pound, errr, I mean a 9-ozer, but it won't be a powder that does a lot for me or that I will use much or stockpile.

[zxcvbob]

What Pat and GRid said. Almost all powders here are 45 to 55 AUD (averaged about $47.00USD). The price Dale sid he is able to get trailboss for in the USA is about $10.00 USD cheaper than I can get it for here in Australia. Bearing in mind it's been shipped half way around the globe, that's not bad at all. The only powders that I can can get at a fair price are ADI, and as Dale has demonsrated it can be bought for less in the US sometimes anyway. Be happy, you guys have it good when it comes to prices and choice.

ADI AP50N (I think I got that number right) is a great powder for low pressure pistol cartridges. I use it, packaged as Hodgdon's International, in .380 ACP practice rounds and .38 Special target loads. Also gonna try it in .38S&W, but I'm still using Bullseye for now while trying to get the kinks worked with my dies and bullets. International should be perfect in .45 Colt if you can get it cheaper than Red Dot, American Select, and Trailboss.

The load data is pretty much the same as Titegroup, but International is bulkier and it burns cleaner. DO NOT use International in any high pressure cartridges; I would keep it under 20000 psi just to be safe.

[BCB]

The prices I see quoted on this thread for a “one-pound canister” are actually probably for the 9 ounce size. I am uncertain that a one-pound canister is made…

I just purchase a five-pound container from Powder Valley and it came out to $18.40 per pound—that is with a percentage of the hazmat fee and shipping added in. I purchased 10 items so I divided it up in proportion…

Powder Valley does have the 9-ounce size and it is $11.00. That would calculate to around 19 bucks for a pound and I know they would be cheaper than any local dealer—or at least I feel sure…

It is a truly bulky powder and I have used it in several cases so far—both straight wall and bottle neck—so far, I sort of like it. It is a different concept in shooting. The only problem is that the sight-in adjustment must be made on all weapons it is being used in as the P.O.I. is greatly different than the standard loads I presently shoot…

I included a pic of the 5-pound container of Trail Boss and a 1-pound container of SR-4756. A big difference in size per pound container…

BCB

[awaveritt]

Cabelas website has TB for 13.99/9oz. and Bullseye/Unique for 17.99/lb. In my 3.0gr loads for 38 Spcl. this comes to about 15 cents more per box of 50 for Trail Boss than Bullseye. If Trail Boss does what you need it to do, like Cowboy Action Shooting, extra safety during reloading, soft recoil/low noise, etc., etc., then 15 cents a box is not a whole lot to quibble over, especially when we reloaders save a bundle over the poor folks (or is it rich folks?) who have to buy store bought ammo at $16 to $30 per box. I'm shootin' my cast reloads for around $2.50 per box as long as wheel weights continue to be free-for-the-asking in my neck of the woods.

Trail Boss is not the powder to end all powders, but it represents a good product in the arsenal of powders we have available.

[BCB]

Cabelas website has TB for 13.99/9oz. and Bullseye/Unique for 17.99/lb. In my 3.0gr loads for 38 Spcl. this comes to about 15 cents more per box of 50 for Trail Boss than Bullseye. If Trail Boss does what you need it to do, like Cowboy Action Shooting, extra safety during reloading, soft recoil/low noise, etc., etc., then 15 cents a box is not a whole lot to quibble over, especially when we reloaders save a bundle over the poor folks (or is it rich folks?) who have to buy store bought ammo at $16 to $30 per box. I'm shootin' my cast reloads for around $2.50 per box as long as wheel weights continue to be free-for-the-asking in my neck of the woods.

Trail Boss is not the powder to end all powders, but it represents a good product in the arsenal of powders we have available.


I did a bit of math also and mine cost only a few pennies more per box of 50. So you are indeed correct that there is little or no difference. But, I suppose the Bullseye will give a bit more velocity...

I think the real application is using it in bottle neck cases as it fills the case nearly to the bottom of the boolit and that is with the 70% starting load when the powder is weighed to the base of the boolit. I have used it in the 45, 357, 44, 30-30, and the 7-30 Waters. I don't know how much Bullseye one would use in the 30-30 or the Waters. It sure seems like it would "rattle" around in there! That is why I like the Trail Boss already...

I have gotten very good accuracy from both the 30-30 and the Waters. Both shoot between .5" and .7" at 50 yards and I just shot 1/2 dozen groups at 100 yards yesterday with the Waters and all were less than 1.3" with the smallest being 1.1". I was amazed at the consitency of the groups. Velocity is 1056 with 8.0 grains of Trail Boss and the Lyman 287346 @ 135 grains...

It was a gamble getting the 5-pound keg, but I think it will get used. Accuracy in the straight wall cases was very acceptable also...

I'll use it up...

BCB

[XWrench3]

i guess i didnt look at the canister good enough. i had actually thought about buying a bottle, until i noticed how slow the loads were, at that point, i decided to get another pound of SR 4759. so, the stuff is rediculosly expensive, and the little bit you do get in a container, you have to use a lot of it to make a load, why would anyone buy it? seems to me it would make way more sense to buy a different powder, and use less of it, and save a TON of cash. now that i know what it is, i can GUARANTEE you there will not be any of that stuff in my load area!

[BCB]

i guess i didnt look at the canister good enough. i had actually thought about buying a bottle, until i noticed how slow the loads were, at that point, i decided to get another pound of SR 4759. so, the stuff is rediculosly expensive, and the little bit you do get in a container, you have to use a lot of it to make a load, why would anyone buy it? seems to me it would make way more sense to buy a different powder, and use less of it, and save a TON of cash. now that i know what it is, i can GUARANTEE you there will not be any of that stuff in my load area!


XWrench3,

Won’t argue the point you make of SR-4759…

Years ago I purchased a 6-pound jug of that powder for Bartlett—it was surplus and was cheap…

I do use it in a 357 Magnum load that I shoot in my Marlin 1894—very good accuracy…

It also works well in my 270 Winchester with the Lyman 280642. I haven’t tried Trail Boss in the caliber with that boolit…

One thing that is true is that the SR-4759 will give more velocity in the Waters and the 30-30, but it is using twice as much according to my results. Yep, the increase velocity is several hundred feet per second, but I haven’t shot the maximum charge of Trail Boss in Waters or the 30-30. So the velocity spread would be only a couple of hundred feet per second at most. And I still would be using only about 75% of the SR-4759 charge…

With this data, the prices aren’t all the much different…

But then again, I guess a guy should throw XMR-5744 into the ring also! That even complicates the frugalness of the situation reloads must constantly dwell on!!!...

Ah heck, I like Trail Boss ‘cause it looks like a donut—it is a very distinguishable look—all of its own…

And so it goes…BCB

[TDB9901]

I haven't bought any for quite a while, but the last SR-4759 I got came in an 8 oz. can, same size as the one pounders.......... Just like TB.

Kinda the same situation, almost 2/3 the price of the one pound cans of the other IMR's but only half as much....

Like I said it's been awhile, still in tin cans.......... Was 9.00 for 8 oz. back then, 4895 bought at same time was just under 15.00.

Thought about trying some TB. But haven't yet.

[sisiphunter]

Very hard to get TB IN prairie Canada. I finally got some up from the US and it is very slow. Not a big fan of it for myself, but my 7yr old son loves it. He can shoot my 'big guns' (44mag, 30-30, 303) and have little to no recoil!!!!! Makes him very excited, so therefor Dad is happy too.

Oh and just so ya know powders around here are at least $30 a pound and thats for the stuff that doesnt sell. U want IMR or RE-15 or something it is $35 or more. Alliant and Vitavouhri is up way higher. Still cheaper than factory, especially with my cast, and way more fulfilling.

Matt

[NVScouter]

Well my testing with it leads me to think its cowboy FFG stuff, not what I need.

I have an almost 9oz can in Reno NV if anybody wants to swap for it...obviously no shipping.

Past that I'll use it for fireforming brass.

[a.squibload]

TB sounds like fun, less recoil and slow acceleration with a big 44 boolit will still
smack the heck out of a water jug, empty can, etc.
Wonder how it would work for cast sub loads for 7mm mag? No filler required?

But I've always been perplexed by the worry over double-charging a case.
I have never done it. If you want to avoid it here's how:

Don't use a loading block.
The only case on my bench with powder in it (other than loaded rounds) is the one I'm shoving in the shellholder.
From the powder dumper it goes to the ram and gets a boolit on it.

That's it, simple, just change your routine.
Anyway if the cat jumps on your loading block you are hosed!