Hard Cast Gas Check 405 On Deer

[GuzziRider]

Hello All,
This list seems to be a good place to get some well informed opinions on cast bullet hunting. My interest is in what those who care to comment feel the load pictured below would work on midwestern white tail at around 50 to 150 yards. I loaded these up for a lever gun fun match where we were shooting at a rather small steel gong at 200 yards with open sights. For that they worked just fine but I have several left over and was considering using them in November to hunt deer out of a tree stand in heavily wooded creek bottom. Now, I know that these are not optimum deer loads and are not what one would be using by choice. And yes its over kill but I am thinking that they will most likely just pass right on though with little or no expansion. It has been my experience with my 45-70 using flat nosed 350 grain jacketed bullets they do just about the same on something as lightly built as a the WT. Same hole in and out with not a lot of meat damage and a deer in the bag. Remember, this is just a notion so if you think ifs a bad idea fine, talk me out of it.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y113/GuzziRider/DSCN0211.jpg

[roverboy]

They'll probably work ok, but like you said there will be probably no expansion. I'd prefer a wide nose flat point. But they may still work ok because of the big heavy bullet.

[DanWalker]

I'm thinking that a roundnose cast hard, will act a lot like a fieldpoint tipped arrow. You're gonna make a hole, and the deer will die. It's just a matter of how long it takes him to do it, and how many miles he covers before he tips over.
Shoot him in the base of the neck or through both front shoulders, or a full body raking shot, and you'll speed the process though.

[crabo]

For hunting I would want a boolit that looks like this in the 45/70.

[roverboy]

Crabo, now thats a good looking boolit.

[jtaylor1960]

Check out the thread just after yours about the guy hunting bear with a 405 and cast bullets.

[ammohead]

Check out the thread just after yours about the guy hunting bear with a 405 and cast bullets.

That would be me!

My boolit was a round/flat point with a healthy meplat and cast soft. But .413 of any shape should do the trick if the boolit goes through both lungs or heart. I hit my bear a little farther back than I wanted and it only went 60 yards before piling up. I would use the ammo you show if I was certain of the shot.

When I am told that cast boolits really aren't that good for hunting I always reply..."Really....have you seen any buffalo lately?" It is estimated that 30 million of the shaggy boys were killed without one jacketed boolit in existence, unless you count paper patching.

ammohead

[crabo]

Crabo, now thats a good looking boolit.

Both are group buys. The small one is 360 grains and the larger one weighs about 410 out of WW.

I shot a buffalo with the big one. It wasn't a hunt, but I shot him in the head from about 35 yards away. The rancher told me to shot him in the ear. I was an inch in front of the ear hole. He dropped immediately, then the rancher jumped the fence and shot him again in the ear with a 30-06. We bought the buffalo for the meat and he let me shoot it.

They shoot them in the ear, and then run over with the payloader and drop the bucket on him to claim him and to hold him in place. Then they shoot him in the ear again to make sure he doesn't get up. They claim him so the herd doesn't gather around the downed buffalo to protect it.

Then they pick him up with the payloader, and take him to the processing shed where they bleed him out and clean and process him.

From the time I got there, shooting the buffalo, and to when he was halved and hanging in the cooler was 1.5 hours. They were pretty impressive with their knives. I live outside of Dallas, and the buffalo was in North Dakota. There is a lot of good eating there.

I left the head in the coulee and my BIL will pull it out in a couple more months. It should be clean and bleached by then.

GuzziRider, I'll send you a few ACWW boolits if you want them.

[Blammer]

get a file, file you a flat spot on the nose, and give it a go.

Aim for bone, ie a shoulder, should do fine.

[DanWalker]

That would be me!

My boolit was a round/flat point with a healthy meplat and cast soft. But .413 of any shape should do the trick if the boolit goes through both lungs or heart. I hit my bear a little farther back than I wanted and it only went 60 yards before piling up. I would use the ammo you show if I was certain of the shot.

When I am told that cast boolits really aren't that good for hunting I always reply..."Really....have you seen any buffalo lately?" It is estimated that 30 million of the shaggy boys were killed without one jacketed boolit in existence, unless you count paper patching.

ammohead

Maybe we're not understanding what he's asking.
Your boolit was soft and had a nice wide meplat.
If his boolits are HARD like the title of his post leads one to believe, they won't be nearly as rapidly lethal as yours were.
That HARD round nose isn't going to create much of a wound channel compared to what a flat nose will do. If it doesn't deform or rivet some at impact it's going to be just pushing tissue out of the way, rather than punch pressing and tearing like a flat nose does.
I've seen the results of too hard RNFP's on hogs when I was gunning them on the channel islands. I wouldn't get nearly as quick of kills with my Hard cast RNFP's as I did fron my Hard cast WFNGC's
As for the buffalo, they were killed with SOFT lead. I'm currently reading,"The Buffalo Hunters" By Mari Sandoz. Excellent book suggested to me by Waksupi.

[Larry Gibson]

GuzziRider

Oh those will kill a little WT deer alright. Many years ago I had some 457483 (390 gr RN GC'd cast of WWs) loaded to 1500 fps out of my Siamese mauser 45-70. I and a buddy had a couple doe tags (mule deer) so I decided to "blood" the Siamese Mauser. Saw some does and I lined up on one and my buddy was set to shoot one after I shot. I shot and he didn't. I saw mine fall and wondered why he didn't shoot so I asked; he said he didn't have to. Sure enough the bullet went through the doe I shot and killed the one standing about 15 yards behind. The second was lined up perfectly with the first and I couldn't see it but my buddy could. Two deer with one shot. I haven't seen as white tails are any tougher than mulies so just be careful there isn't one behined the one you're shooting.

Larry Gibson

[longbow]

I'll make the same comment as Blammer ~ file a flat on the nose.

If you have access to a lathe, you can turn out a simple file jig from round bar or tubing. Slide it over top of your loaded round then file the nose. That way you get an arccurate and consistent flat turning your RN boolits into RNFP.

While they may be capable as is, the meplat will improve performance.

Longbow

[82nd airborne]

Ive seen it done with a .22, my guess is that it will kill a deer.

[Freightman]

I hope there are two in a row as I can get up to seven with my tags.

[hicard]

I killed 2 pigs with one shot from a 45-70 Marlin once. Big hammer slug. Did a lot of damage.

[Shooter]

I have hunted deer with the 45/70 for a long time. ANY boolit from a 45/70 will kill a deer if properly placed.
I have used rolling blocks, trapdoors, Encores, and Buff Classics.
I have used .460 round balls, 250 gr. 45 Colt boolits, 405 Gr.,550 Gr. etc. My favorite now is the Gould's bullet.
They all completely penetrate on broadside shots. There is a school of thought that says bullet energy is lost when the projectile exits. This is correct, but it opens two channels for blood loss.
Lastly and most important. The distance a deer goes after the hit depends on the deer's state of mind at the shot. I've had them run 110 yards or drop in their track from the same boolit in the same place.
That's my story, I'm stickin' to it.