Trimming brass, when is enough, enough?

[Changeling]

I pulled 50 rounds .45 Colt Starline brass brass out of the bag (NEW) and started measuring them with a set of calipers. There is absolutely no variances from 1.275 more than .010! In fact most are within .005!
I don't think I will be trimming these at all since I don't think my "Hornady" trimmer could probably keep that degree of accuracy.

Have the rest of you guys found this kind of precision in there brass?

[Doc Highwall]

I think the real test for length is after they have been fired in your gun.

[Changeling]

I think the real test for length is after they have been fired in your gun.

That is quite true, but to see this kind of precision from new brass is amazing to me. Except for some benchrest brands like Lapua. I'm used to Winchester and Remington brass and can tell you and show you some of there brass with torn ends, ripped edges, etc,!

This is the first Starline brass I have ever bought/had and I am totally amazed !:grin:

[500bfrman]

i just bought 500 new pieces of 375 ultra mag brass (remington). about 2 percent were unusuable. I don't know if I have ever found one piece of starline like that. I have ordered over 10K pieces from them through the years.

[BCB]

I don’t know about consistency of case length with the new Starline brass, but I do know one thing, after I fired the 45 LC and the 44 Magnum brass several times, I was having trouble getting them to fit into the shell holder…

I always seat the boolit and crimp in the same operation. When I apply the crimp, I lower the cartridge and turn at about ½ turn and then crimp again. I figure this applies a more even crimp, but maybe not…

On some of the cases, I can’t turn it as the rim has become egg-shaped and will insert into the shell holder one way, but will bind up when I turn it. Sometimes I have to turn the case before it will enter the shell holder…

The 45 LC has a rim diameter of 0.512” and some of them after being shot are 0.518” and those will not turn in the shell holder. The 44 Magnum is to be 0.514” and it egg-shapes also…

I have tried 3 different shell holders and they all have the same results…

That part of the Starline brass is very annoying to me. But it is readily available so that is why I get it. I am always glad to get some once fired R-P, Winchester, or FC brass. It doesn’t do the egg-shape shuffle…

Good-luck…BCB

[Changeling]

I don’t know about consistency of case length with the new Starline brass, but I do know one thing, after I fired the 45 LC and the 44 Magnum brass several times, I was having trouble getting them to fit into the shell holder…

I always seat the boolit and crimp in the same operation. When I apply the crimp, I lower the cartridge and turn at about ½ turn and then crimp again. I figure this applies a more even crimp, but maybe not…

On some of the cases, I can’t turn it as the rim has become egg-shaped and will insert into the shell holder one way, but will bind up when I turn it. Sometimes I have to turn the case before it will enter the shell holder…

The 45 LC has a rim diameter of 0.512” and some of them after being shot are 0.518” and those will not turn in the shell holder. The 44 Magnum is to be 0.514” and it egg-shapes also…

I have tried 3 different shell holders and they all have the same results…






That part of the Starline brass is very annoying to me. But it is readily available so that is why I get it. I am always glad to get some once fired R-P, Winchester, or FC brass. It doesn’t do the egg-shape shuffle…

Good-luck…BCB




Sir I'm not doubting what you say but that doesn't make sense to me. I have never experienced that phenomenon in all my years of reloading. I've saw a lot of things but that is definitely a new one on me.
To date I haven't shot any of the new Starline brass in my .45, but like I said earlier I am extremely impressed with it. If you are experiencing case head deformity from the cases you get from the factory (Starline), what did Starline have to say about the problem you are experiencing ?

[BCB]

Changeling,

Starline didn’t say anything because I didn’t notify them or ask them about it…

The cases have been reloaded 8-10 times and I suppose I have gotten my money out of them…

Yet, I have R-P and FC brass, but not in the 45 LC, that I have loaded 14 times in the 357 Magnum. Many were power house loads as where some of the 45’s and 44’s. I have LC (Lake City) military brass for my 223 and it has been reloaded AT LEAST 25 times for some of it—I honestly quit keeping track of it ‘cause it didn’t matter at all. Dang stuff just keeps shooting. Much of it was from the early to mid 1980’s…

It is simply easier to just toss them than it is to contact Starline and send several cases back. I am sure that is what they would want. Three dollars per gallon for gasoline, a ten-mile one way trip to the post office and shipping on the package—do the math—just throw them away and buy more…

Sad but true that this is the way things are in this country anymore. Minimum standards—that is what we all HAVE to accept with many things…

The Soap Box—My company provided me with a 2008 Chevy Blazer. To date it has had the transmission rebuilt 2 times and then finally replaced…the transfer case has been replaced…the rear windshield wipe falls off every time I close the hatch…the rear window washer button/dial on the dash has been replaced 2 times…the radio has a static sound all of the time…And finally, try to remove the spare tire. The milage on the odometer today--39843...

This is what I have come to expect from this country anymore so why expect any different with brass?...

I have been reloading ammo since around 1969 and I have never had problems with stuff as much as I have with today’s components—if you can even purchase them. One thing I am thankful about is the fact that all of my reloading equipment is old, they are good brand names for those times, and it continues to function as well as when it was purchased. I would be scared to purchase the same amount of reloading equipment and components that I presently own on today’s market. It would be just TRYING to reload ammo…

And so it goes…BCB

[ole 5 hole group]

I've never experienced what you're describing and don't have a clue as to how it could happen.

I've purchased several thousand pieces of brass from Starline (having 3,500 pieces coming my way as I type) and can only speak good of them. I've shot their 45 Colt brass from 800fps to 1,600fps and never experienced any type of problem.

If it wasn't for bad luck you probably wouldn't have any luck at all.

[BCB]

Well, concerning the brass, I am looking into the fact that the Lee Auto Prime might be causing this to occur. It does put some rough edges on the rim. That might be enough resistence along wit hthe slightly oversized rims to cause the problem--don't know...

Yet, I use the Auto Prime for small and large primers. I have an Auto Prime for each size of primer. It doesn't seem to do it with other rimmed cases--don't know...

But it sure is annoying...

Maybe my patience is just a bet low during these days. You know how life can go sometimes...

But, I will continue to cast boolits and shoot even though a cuss word or two appears!!!...

BCB

[white eagle]

Changeling
I have to exact opposite view of Starline Brass
it has been the sorriest brass I have seen in the 44 mag
they may have the o/a worked out but the rest of it is junk

[cptinjeff]

I'm not a snob...I use all brands of brass. BUT, I only buy starline.:bigsmyl2:

I have had nothing but exceptional results with them. I have about 2500 pieces in circulation currently. It could be the years they are purchased...I think I've heard they have had some periods when the quality wasn't the same. Mine is all at least 5 years old.

BTW....I only trim (if I trim) after the first use.

Enjoy!!

[500bfrman]

ummm, if you have a problem with starline brass you might try contacting them. any problems I have ever had they quickly ship more out to you at no charge. but it is such crappy brass you probably wouldn't want any more. I believe there are some quality company's out there in reloading and everything for that matter, and lee ain't where I look for quality.



Changeling,

Starline didn’t say anything because I didn’t notify them or ask them about it…

The cases have been reloaded 8-10 times and I suppose I have gotten my money out of them…

Yet, I have R-P and FC brass, but not in the 45 LC, that I have loaded 14 times in the 357 Magnum. Many were power house loads as where some of the 45’s and 44’s. I have LC (Lake City) military brass for my 223 and it has been reloaded AT LEAST 25 times for some of it—I honestly quit keeping track of it ‘cause it didn’t matter at all. Dang stuff just keeps shooting. Much of it was from the early to mid 1980’s…

It is simply easier to just toss them than it is to contact Starline and send several cases back. I am sure that is what they would want. Three dollars per gallon for gasoline, a ten-mile one way trip to the post office and shipping on the package—do the math—just throw them away and buy more…

Sad but true that this is the way things are in this country anymore. Minimum standards—that is what we all HAVE to accept with many things…

The Soap Box—My company provided me with a 2008 Chevy Blazer. To date it has had the transmission rebuilt 2 times and then finally replaced…the transfer case has been replaced…the rear windshield wipe falls off every time I close the hatch…the rear window washer button/dial on the dash has been replaced 2 times…the radio has a static sound all of the time…And finally, try to remove the spare tire. The milage on the odometer today--39843...

This is what I have come to expect from this country anymore so why expect any different with brass?...

I have been reloading ammo since around 1969 and I have never had problems with stuff as much as I have with today’s components—if you can even purchase them. One thing I am thankful about is the fact that all of my reloading equipment is old, they are good brand names for those times, and it continues to function as well as when it was purchased. I would be scared to purchase the same amount of reloading equipment and components that I presently own on today’s market. It would be just TRYING to reload ammo…

And so it goes…BCB

[Changeling]

Well, for a change I don't know what to say! I realize that most of you are not "fly by computer" hand loaders and know what you are talking about! I've did this for a long time and I just have never experienced the results you are getting.

BCB, I think you know what you are doing but it would cost very little to send 3 or 4 of those cases back to Starline with the shipping number of the batch you received (Lot # would be awesome).
I would seriously think that Starline would replace your entire order with out question! Plus, if there was a defect the rest of us wouldn't experience the same results you have and maybe eliminate an unknown phenomenon. Good luck.

[Frank]

I have .475 Starline and am having a difficult time to bring it up to speed. I bought 250 cases of it, so believe me, I want it to work. It has 1 1/2 grn less water capacity than Hornady. When I shoot 26.5 grns W296 w/ a 400 boolit, I get stuck brass. I have to pound them out. Not the Hornady. It groups better and can handle the load. But the Starline looks great, goes in the die smooth. They're all the same length. When I take a pic of the BFR, I'll use the Starline brass next to it, and wood grips. Looks are what really matters anyway. ;)

[mike in co]

I pulled 50 rounds .45 Colt Starline brass brass out of the bag (NEW) and started measuring them with a set of calipers. There is absolutely no variances from 1.275 more than .010! In fact most are within .005!
I don't think I will be trimming these at all since I don't think my "Hornady" trimmer could probably keep that degree of accuracy.

Have the rest of you guys found this kind of precision in there brass?

i do not consider .010 acceptable for my crimped pistol/lever brass.

i do not consider 0.005 acceptable
i do consider 0.002 acceptable.

i only shoot 44 mag on a regular basis in revolver and lever( i do have a 30/30 now)

all brass was trimmed to length one time and checked after firing.

its just me, i know, but i do not consider .010 nor .005 "precision" in revolver loading.

mike in co

[Changeling]

Unbelievable- I am fairly sure that i said I had never used Starline brass before, this was my first order, and I reported EXACTLY what I found with that order relative to "Case Length" that was it!!
Now after examining the Starline brass further I think I understated the quality, from all appearances it seems to surpass Winchester/Remington/ whoever, except Lupoa, but then they don't make .45 Colt brass.

NOW, as I also stated I haven't shot any of this brass yet, so I have no idea of how it "Stands UP"! However due to what i have examined I have a strong opinion that my appraisal will win out over some that think they know. This will absolutely have to take place after the Revolver is finished. This is approaching it's last few problems by a forum member. At that time you will have an excellent time to give all your opinions BEFORE the revolver is fired!

On the other hand those that feel so strongly in this particular post that this is all to no avail should post your NAME beside your avatar as a reply to this post.

This will assure that you know more than every one else, and you will be praised for it!

So,just step right up and state why you know that I am so full of ****!

[BCB]

Changeling,

I may go through the 45LC brass and try to find the worst 3 or 4 pieces that are causing the trouble that I have been describing, and send them to Starline. I certainly don’t have the order number of the lot number anymore, even if I did some time ago. I agree, it may be worth a buck or two shipping to attempt to see what the problem might be…

Frank,

I am also using Hornady 45LC brass along with the Starline. I have been mixing it on purpose and not looking at the head stamp as I prime them and seat the boolit. I can absolutely tell when I have a Starline or a Hornady brass in the shell holder when I am seating the boolit. One turns nicely during the crimping process and one may or may not turn nicely. The one that doesn’t is always the Starline. It’s a mystery to me also…

500bfrman,

Quote: “ummm, if you have a problem with starline brass you might try contacting them. any problems I have ever had they quickly ship more out to you at no charge. but it is such crappy brass you probably wouldn't want any more. I believe there are some quality company's out there in reloading and everything for that matter, and lee ain't where I look for quality.”

You imply that I might not want anymore because I think it is “crappy” brass. Well, you seemed to have had trouble too as you indicted you sent some back. I don’t think it is crappy brass, but I have had a bad experience. I don’t defend or condemn Starline—I state facts—the reader is the one who decides. I have had no problems with R-P, Winchester, LC, PMC, or FC brass…

As far as Lee goes, if you go to page 11 of the Sinclair 7th Edition of their Reloading Handbook, their primer seaters were designed to use the Lee Precision Auto Prime shell holder. Sinclair must have a bit of faith there. I agree some of Lee stuff is a bit iffy, but their push through sizing dies and the Factory Crimp dies have served me well when that part of the reloading process was required…

What brass of the original Starline brass in 45LC that I have not used, I will use. If I get 8 reloads out of it, all well and good….

And it just dawned on me that I have some of their 445 Super Magnum brass, but I never really used it much as the T/C Contender I was shooting it from showed most miserable accuracy from day one—I gave up on it. But I might get it back out soon as I have been experimenting extensively with Trail Boss power. Might as well attempt to get it to shoot just O.K. even if it is at 44 Special parameters…

Gotta love this reloading hobby…

BCB

[Frank]

BCB says
Frank,

I am also using Hornady 45LC brass along with the Starline. I have been mixing it on purpose and not looking at the head stamp as I prime them and seat the boolit. I can absolutely tell when I have a Starline or a Hornady brass in the shell holder when I am seating the boolit. One turns nicely during the crimping process and one may or may not turn nicely. The one that doesn’t is always the Starline. It’s a mystery to me also…

Sometimes we hear more often than not that XYZ company is great, but then someone comes along and reveals the brutal truth. [smilie=p: And I really believe that only at that point and moving forward, progress thus begins to be made.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=123&pictureid=2718

Hornady:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=123&pictureid=2720

Starline:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=123&pictureid=2721

[Char-Gar]

My take on the subject at hand.

1. Uniform length and square mouths of sixgun brass is important to a uniform and proper crimp. This is important IF, you are loading high performance rounds where utmost accuracy is needed.

2. Cases that are "less than" No. 1 above are OK for plinking and clod busting use.

3. I use a file trim die for sixgun brass which also sizes the cases. When the ram is at top I take a file and knock off any excess which is above the die. This is just routine.

4. I have never measured unfired cases.

5. Starline brass is good brass.

6. Don't trim brass used in the autopistol. For accuracy segregate according to length.

[Lloyd Smale]

I load ALOT of handgun ammo. Probably as much as anyone here. Ive used about every brand of brass imaginable through the years and have had zero problems with starline brass and through them years have had occasional problems with just about every other brand. Ive sat here for a bit trying of figure what possibly could be causing your problem and the only thing i cant think of any aspect of loading that would distort a rim. Even the best of companys can sometimes make a bad batch of there product and maybe you were the unlucky one that got it. Now keep on thing in mind. Rim thickness on different brands of brass can very and maybe your starline is a bit thicker and your shell holders are a bit tight. I know that starline brass rims tend to be a bit thicker and have less tolarance for high primers in revolvers.
Changeling,

I may go through the 45LC brass and try to find the worst 3 or 4 pieces that are causing the trouble that I have been describing, and send them to Starline. I certainly don’t have the order number of the lot number anymore, even if I did some time ago. I agree, it may be worth a buck or two shipping to attempt to see what the problem might be…

Frank,

I am also using Hornady 45LC brass along with the Starline. I have been mixing it on purpose and not looking at the head stamp as I prime them and seat the boolit. I can absolutely tell when I have a Starline or a Hornady brass in the shell holder when I am seating the boolit. One turns nicely during the crimping process and one may or may not turn nicely. The one that doesn’t is always the Starline. It’s a mystery to me also…

500bfrman,

Quote: “ummm, if you have a problem with starline brass you might try contacting them. any problems I have ever had they quickly ship more out to you at no charge. but it is such crappy brass you probably wouldn't want any more. I believe there are some quality company's out there in reloading and everything for that matter, and lee ain't where I look for quality.”

You imply that I might not want anymore because I think it is “crappy” brass. Well, you seemed to have had trouble too as you indicted you sent some back. I don’t think it is crappy brass, but I have had a bad experience. I don’t defend or condemn Starline—I state facts—the reader is the one who decides. I have had no problems with R-P, Winchester, LC, PMC, or FC brass…

As far as Lee goes, if you go to page 11 of the Sinclair 7th Edition of their Reloading Handbook, their primer seaters were designed to use the Lee Precision Auto Prime shell holder. Sinclair must have a bit of faith there. I agree some of Lee stuff is a bit iffy, but their push through sizing dies and the Factory Crimp dies have served me well when that part of the reloading process was required…

What brass of the original Starline brass in 45LC that I have not used, I will use. If I get 8 reloads out of it, all well and good….

And it just dawned on me that I have some of their 445 Super Magnum brass, but I never really used it much as the T/C Contender I was shooting it from showed most miserable accuracy from day one—I gave up on it. But I might get it back out soon as I have been experimenting extensively with Trail Boss power. Might as well attempt to get it to shoot just O.K. even if it is at 44 Special parameters…

Gotta love this reloading hobby…

BCB

[Potsy]

I've got 200 starline cases that stay in circulation for my .45 Colt. About 100-150 of them get loaded 2-3 times a year with my "plinking load" (9.0 grn. Universal and a 454424). The rest get loaded every year or two with my "hunting load" (21 grn. 2400 and a 454424). I've never had a problem, aside from the fact I need another 100 cases in a bad way.

About 2 years ago, I bought 50 .45-70 Starline cases, they were all within .001 of the trim-to length. I had to trim them quite a bit anyway because of the boolit I was using.

Here a while back I bought a 100 .44 Special Winchester cases and my wife's uncle bought 200 .44 Magnum Winchester cases. Most were .015-.020 over the trim-to length and the flash holes had some pretty huge burrs on the inside. Case trimming and cleaning up flash holes is not something I really enjoy, but oh well.....

Oh, and my '08 Chevy company truck has about 105,000 on it and I've had zero problems (even had a pretty easy time getting the spare out). Not to say there aren't lemons, but Starline and Chevrolet have been pretty good to me!!!