Lee Pro1000 vs Dillon 550/650

[thehouseproduct]

Despite the fact that I understand “buy once, cry once”. I seem to always learn the hard way. I have learned that many items are worth the extra pennies. Powder measures, scales, casting tools, etc. On some things I learned that Lee is more than adequate for the price, 6 bangers, collet dies, FCD, etc.

So I currently have a Lee Pro1000. I have come to the conclusion that I will have an aneurysm if I have to fix it jamming one more time. I began to look into Dillon and Hornady progressive presses. It was then that I realized that an auto indexing press with a case feeder from them would cost $700-$800 instead of $160. My question is, is it worth it? Have many of you switched and never looked back? Is the Dillon 550 with manual index frustrating after using an auto index? What about an auto indexing turret from lee? Does the Lee Loadmaster work much better than the Pro1000?

Opinions please.

[KYCaster]

If you're frustrated with the Pro 1000 then you'll probably hate the Loadmaster.

I've owned both and found it much easier to make the Pro 1000 run consistently. The Loadmaster is a nightmare.

Look on Youtube, you'll find lots of videos about how to set up and run Dillon and Hornady presses. You'll find lots of videos about how to FIX Lee presses, including after-market parts intended to address the problems with the Lee designs.

Jerry

[Recluse]

I have a Pro1000 and I've loaded tens of thousands of rounds on it.

Notice that I did not say "I've loaded tens of thousands of rounds on it trouble free."

I bought it when I was a young starving federal lawman shooting up a thousand rounds a week in IPSC and other gun sports. Couldn't afford a Dillon then.

Comparing a Lee Pro1000 and a Dillon 550/650 is like comparing. . . well. . . hmmmmm. There is no comparing. There just isn't.

Both will give you loaded ammo, and one will give you bouts of extremely high blood pressure as well.

Customer service from both Lee and Dillon is very good, but if there has ever been a finer press made than the Dillon 550B, I'd like to see it and try it.

With the trays for the brass on one side and boolits on the other, it doesn't take you long to forget about those four plastic tubes. Same with the manual indexing versus auto indexing.

Two different machines from two different worlds. Difference is, one of these days, I'll end up throwing that Pro1000 out. Can't imagine doing that to either Dillon.

And that's the bottom line.

:coffee:

[mike in co]

if you do not like the manual turning/indexing, then spend the extra bucks and get a dillon 650, if not get the 550. add the case feeder when funds are available.

mike in co

[Tom-ADC]

One more vote for the Dillon 550, I sold a hardly used Pro1000 a month or so ago for $30 just to get rid of it.

[NWFLYJ]

It would be cool if someone made a auto index add on for the 550. I love mine and do not mind advancing it by hand. I dream about a weak little pnematic plunger mounted to left side that is either foot operated or off of the arm. Somebody figure it all out and post it up! Mark

[Dale53]

I have had a Lee Pro 1000 for several years. I originally had it dedicated to the .32 H&R (and S&W Long). It pretty much requires a mechanic to keep it going.

I originally got a Dillon 450 (Dillon sent me one to try when I was shooting IPSC and I bought it rather than send it back. When the 550 came out I sold the 450 and bought a 550 then upgraded to the 550B. A couple of years ago, I bought another new 550B.

If you load for both rifle and pistol, then the 550B is the one for you. The tool heads are affordable as well as the caliber change overs. Mine is set up for eleven different calibers.

I wouldn't change ONE dern thing on my 550B's. I like them just as they are. Mine have loaded tens of thousands of rounds. I shot competitively for years with both pistol and rifle and my equipment was NEVER a cause for me losing an event.

I like Lee equipment and recommend their Lee Classic Turret press to anyone wanting to get started reloading. Their dies are just dandy and a great value, also. I like their Pro Disc powder measure for small charges (even use them on my Dillon from time to time).

I am NOT particularly enthused with their progressive presses. Dillon is WORLD'S better in every way.

FWIW
Dale53

[Springfield]

It's called a Dillon 650! I have 2 550's myself, one for 18 years. I have tried out friends 650 a couple of times, don't feel the need for one. I have also owned 3 Square Deals, didn't like the auto advance at all. Don't plan on buying the brass feeder for my 550 either.

[Houndog]

I hated the pro 1000 so bad it got the float test and i'm glad it failed! It now resides at the bottom of Patric Henry lake. It was so unreliable I wouldn't sell it to anyone. It HAD to be the WORST *** I've ever bought!

[geargnasher]

All of you who dislike your Lee Pro 1000s, PLEASE pm me and I'll gladly make you an offer to get out from under it. I have two and am looking to pick up one or two more if I can get a better deal than new. I don't need the dies.

Gear

[NWFLYJ]

It's called a Dillon 650! I have 2 550's myself, one for 18 years. I have tried out friends 650 a couple of times, don't feel the need for one. I have also owned 3 Square Deals, didn't like the auto advance at all. Don't plan on buying the brass feeder for my 550 either.


That is just the feed back I need to keep those make it better ideas under control. Thanks!!!!!!!!!! Mark

[David2011]

I have a Square Deal B, a 550 and a 650. The SDB and 650 auto index. The 550 is faster with its manual indexing in my hands than the SDB which does auto index so I consider the auto indexing a non-event. The 650 is far superior to the 550, primarily in its primer handling. Again, just my opinion. I bought the 550 new in 1991 and have been using the 650 for 4 years. I've probably loaded 70,000 rounds on the 650 by now. No telling how much the 550 has loaded.

On the subject of primers in a Dillon, ever since Jimmy Mitchell talked me into using CCI primers I've found all of my Dillons to run smoother. I stuck with the softer Federal and Winchester primers for years simply because I had bad experiences with one revolver that had light springs and wouldn't ignite CCIs reliably. All of my 1911 pattern competition guns have stock weight mainsprings as do my other revolvers and all ignite the CCIs 100%. I get a few crunchy seatings from anything but CCIs every time I load and usually crush one or two primers beyond even plinking use. The CCIs seat much more smoothly. I have some older CCIs that seat about the same as Federal or Winchester but the new ones in the dark box are great.

David

[mroliver77]

I can make a pro 1000 run but it is a royal pain keeping it going. Clean, clean, clean is the word! I love my Dillon 550's as they are smooth! I use the Square Deal for pistol loading and would not trade it for anything out there.
Jay

[Firebricker]

I went from a loadmaster to a 550b and I don't miss the auto index at all. You get a rythem and the manual index just becomes second nature. The case feeder is nice but no big deal. The time I saved not having problems was well worth indexing and adding a case. FB

[chboats]

I bought a dillon 450 in 1983. I have made a few up grades to it. It has served me well through many thousands of rounds. I see no need to up grade to a 550B or the 650. Dillon customer service is second to none. If you can handle the cost of a Dillon over the Lee. It will pay for its self in the long run. I have never heard of anyone wearing out a Dillon.

Carl

[Johnch]

I own 2 550's
Only because I lucked into a second

And now I don't have to do the 1 thing I hate when changing cal's

That is changing the primer feed

I have no clue how many rounds my first one has had through it
But it is a lot


Last week I was loading 223 , the next night I changed to 454 / 45 colt

To load this falls hunting ammo

John

[hunter64]

All of you who dislike your Lee Pro 1000s, PLEASE pm me and I'll gladly make you an offer to get out from under it. I have two and am looking to pick up one or two more if I can get a better deal than new. I don't need the dies.

Gear

Funny, you always read these posts that have been asked 100's of times and it usually starts out with Lee 1000=****. When you offer to buy there Lee 1000 piece of **** miraculously there are none for sale. Funny also when was the last time you saw a used Lee Load master on fley bay, like hardly ever. Wonder what happens to all those crappy load masters out there.

I also will buy any Lee 1000 /load master machines that you have laying around, don't need the dies just the machine. I have 4 already and I need 3 more, cheaper to buy a dedicated machine than a caliber conversion kit for my 650.

Oh and talking about the 650, mine sits in the corner of the bench and I load 30-06 for my Garand and that is about all it does, great machine but I can crank out about 30% more on my crappy load master machine. I must have a knack for the Lee machines because I keep hearing these horror stories about them but haven't run into any more headaches than I did when I am using the 650.

So to reiterate the point that I will buy your piece of **** 1000/load masters that you have sitting gathering dust under the table. Wonder how many offers I will get, usually none. Funny how that works.

I average about 2500 rounds a month, wonder how many reloads I have done on the .45acp lee 1000 machine over the last 24 years that I have owned it.

My 2 cents.

[EDK]

Only thing I don't like about the 550B is changing the primeer feed. I bought the first one in 1991 IIRC and used the h*** out of it in 45 ACP and now 44 Magnum. I wanted to shoot 357 more, but changing the primer feed was a PITA! So...I worked overtime one Saturday and GRAFS' had another 550B with my name on it.

Now I'm looking at my STAR lubricator/sizer and thinking....

:Fire::castmine::redneck:

[C.F.Plinker]

The things that aggravated me about changing primer sizes on the 550B was the disassembly to change out the interior tube and then having to readjust that little allen head machine screw to get it to work right. I finally decided that I had enough of that so I ordered the additional parts needed to make up another complete feeder. Now all I have to do is unhook the spring, remove the two bolts on the underside, disengage the long arm, and put the other unit on. Everything stays adjusted and I am back in business before I know it.

[mike in co]

Oh and talking about the 650, mine sits in the corner of the bench and I load 30-06 for my Garand and that is about all it does, great machine but I can crank out about 30% more on my crappy load master machine.


My 2 cents.

so you are stating that you can do 840 plus rounds of 30-06 on your lee in one hour???(1.3x 650 = 845)
how many parts have you bought from lee to keep your machine rumming ??

where do you lve, maybe we could get someone over to watch you at work with your machines?

[Recluse]

Funny, you always read these posts that have been asked 100's of times and it usually starts out with Lee 1000=****. When you offer to buy there Lee 1000 piece of **** miraculously there are none for sale. Funny also when was the last time you saw a used Lee Load master on fley bay, like hardly ever. Wonder what happens to all those crappy load masters out there.

Around here, a bunch of them are at the bottom of Lake Texoma or sitting in the caliche pits with various bullet holes and shotgun patterns on them.

And no, I'm not kidding.

We've found no less than three Loadmasters in two of the local caliche pits we shoot at, and all three had been shot to pieces--I mean, literally shredded.

One of the members of our private range posted pictures on the clubhouse bulletin board of him taking his old Pro1000 and using it as a trot-line anchor in the shallows at Lake Texoma.

I bought a Pro1000 way back when, and I've loaded a gazillion rounds on it. I have it set up exclusively for small-primer rounds and only load three calibers on it--.38 Special, 9mm and .380ACP. It's the .380ACP loading experience that will have me overflying Texoma in the Cessna and chunking that press in the middle of the lake.

You do learn to be a "press mechanic" with a Pro1000. I don't (always) mind tinkering, but what I hate is the unreliability--never knowing if I'm going to have problems loading or not when I sit down at that particular press.

I am NOT a Lee basher by any stretch. Good likelihood that the majority of my bench is red. I, being the strange one that I am, actually like Lee two-cavity molds and have no problems with them. I bought a Lee Challenger press a month after I bought the Pro1000 and have had zero problems with it and only the Lord knows how many rounds IT'S loaded.

Likewise, I like Lee dies and I've traded or sold a Hornady, Lyman and RCBS powder-flo measure while keeping my $20 Lee Perfect Powder Measure. In over thirty years of heavy reloading, I've yet to find a powder measure more consistently accurate than that little twenty-dollar Lee job.

I like RCBS, Redding and Hornady dies. I like the Lyman Crusher press, but there is no better buy for the money and quality you get than the Lee Classic Cast single-stage press. That, along with the Classic Cast Turret, is on my "buy-for-myself" Christmas list this year.

Lee's customer service, beginning in the early days when I was calling every other day about how to run that Pro1000 is what keeps me loyal. The ammo I produce has no idea what color the equipment was that loaded it. Likewise, the deer and wild pigs and doves and pheasants have no idea the color or brand of the equipment that produced the bullet that brought them to my freezer. What's more, I really doubt they'd care all that much.

I bought that Pro1000 for $99. Best hundred bucks I've ever spent in reloading, bar none. That press cranked out round after round of .38 Special for my IPSC addiction. I've pumped out a lot of 9mm as well. I have got my money's worth out of that press a thousand times over, easily.

But would I buy another one today? Sorry, but no. Would I recommend one for someone starting out who is on just as tight of a budget as I was back then? Without hesitation. For $160 bucks complete for one caliber, nobody can touch that. Next closest would be the Square Deal, and it's two and a half times more.

Lemme tell you: I remember what it's like to check the pickup's ash tray and sofa cushions for spare change. Telling someone that spending two and a half times as much money on a reloading press may be easy to do, but you shred your credibility in doing so.

There are some tricks with the Pro1000 I've learned over the years, such as:

1. It works best when mounted to an extremely firm, heavy platform. If you have any wobble or give in your mounting platform, you're in for some misery and frustration.

2. Compromise a tenth of a grain or so and go with the powder-disc measure system rather than that chincy little chain and plunger set up.

3. Before you even load a single primer, disassemble the shellplate carrier and remove the primer chute. Make sure there are no burrs anywhere on the chute where the primers slide. Once that is done, take some hard automotive paste wax (Turtle or Simoniz) and wax the living hell out of that primer chute. Use Q-tips and buff it until it's slicker than an Obama campaign promise. Then, upon putting it back on the shellplate carrier, squirt a little powdered graphite down the chute, and again, use a Q-tip to spread it around. Do that and you'll have a lot better primer feed system.

4. Buy extra three-hole turrets--one for each caliber. I bought a number of Lee .38 Special dies just so I could have a dedicated set/turret for each boolit I load--105 SWC, 148WC, 158SCW, 125JHP--without having to constantly change and fiddle with adjusting them. That's the beauty of Lee's turret system.

5. The handle on the Pro1000 can be removed and "set" to where it offers best leverage for the stroke cycle. I've found that when lowering the ram and setting the primer, it works best if the handle finishes in the 1:00 o'clock position. I see a lot of setups where the handle finishes around two o'clock or three o'clock--I also read from these same people a lot of complaints about having trouble setting the primers.

Lee's Achille's Heel is in their written directions and instructions. They suck. They're dated, they're vague and they just flat suck. I attribute a lot of the frustration to those lousy instructions and directions.

But today we have the internet. Back when I bought that Pro1000, you had to figure it out largely on your own.

But even with all of that said and explained, it (Pro1000 or Loadmaster) still does not even begin to compare with the Dillon 550.

:coffee:

[dromia]

If you are thinking Dillon then look at the Hornady LnL AP as well, its at least as good as the 650 if not better and cheaper too. I love mine.

This link might be of interest:

http://www.comrace.ca/cmfiles/dillonLeeHornadyComparison.pdf

[Lloyd Smale]

Ive used about all of them. I do have a pro 1000 at the bottom of my pond. The loadmaster is even worse. No doubt someone REAL handy could probably make on work but you could say the same thing about a yugo. The 550 is a good machine but it IS NOT as fast as a square deal or 650. I can run a square deal as fast as i can run a 650 with a case feeder. the shorter stroke makes up for the lack of a bullet feeder. The 550 still is plenty fast to make alot of ammo and unless your one of the 2 percent of shooters that REALLY shoots alot there all a guy needs. Ive got a 550 a 650 and 3 lnl progressives and i dont care what anyone else will tell you the lnls arent better or even quite as good as a 650. Whether the 650 is worth as much more money as it cost over a lnl is debateable though. The lock and loads main weaknesses are its case feeder and to some extent the timing ajustments. Ive ran 650s for a while and never have i had to adjust the timing and it seems like every couple months im fooling with the lock and loads. But honestly if you toss the case feeder there a pretty good darn press. Back when they gave away a 1000 bullets with one they were the bargin of the century. Now with 500 bullets i think id buck up the bit more money for a 650. When the bullets are all shot up your probably going to regret you didnt.

[hunter64]

Mike: I don't have the auto case feeder for the 650 and to compare it to the load master with a case feeder I get about 30 percent more volume is what I meant.

I guess I just haven't had the massive headaches that others have had with the 1000/ load masters. Yes I did some tweaking when I first got the machines like recluse has stated but the biggest help was the Internet and other peoples solutions. Once the known bugs are worked out they run great. With the Dillon I found it was a way better thought out machine to start with and there was more operator error involved in mess ups than actual mechanical problems.

So the old adage that you hear people say is if you are mechanically inclined and can spend 3 hours fixing a machine that should have already been fixed before it was sold to the public and want to spend 1/3 of the cost then go for it.

If you don't want to spend the 3 hours with a Dillon and want it to run out of the box and don't mind the extra 2/3 more money then go for it.

You will be happy with a Dillon 650.

I can make the lee stuff work is all I am saying, it isn't that hard.

[dragonrider]

I have two Pro 1000's and IMHO they should be dedicated to one caliber, if you do multiple calibers you should buy one for each. they are cheap enough to do that. My two are for 380 and 9MM, never change them. Had a loadmaster, nothing but a "***". In six months it never produced usable ammo. I also have a Dillon 650 and for me there is nothing better. If I could afford it I would have several more of them.

[mtgrs737]

I started out loading with a RCBS Rockchucker and I still have it, it still works just as good as when I bought it 38 years ago. A little later I got a couple of Lee Pro 1000's and loaded many 1000's of rounds on them. Then they started to wear a little and being mechanically inclined I keep adjusting them and replacing small parts, Lee was good help to me also. Then I got my Dillon 550B and man what a difference it was, Smooth, Reliable, positive. I soon sold both of my Lee 1000's, I just got my second Dillon 550B the other day. I chose the 550B over the 650 due to the fact that the 550B will load more cal. and I don't need breakneck speed anyway. My choice was cemented by a call to Dillon, the man on the phone said not to buy a 650 that they were having primer dispensing problems with them. That call was many years ago now and I am sure that they got that worked out just fine, but I appreciated his advice. Last weekend I went to a small gunshow and found a NIB Lee Pro 1000 for $75, the guy said: "that's a good price!" I just smiled and said: "It sure is!" Lee is responsible for helping many of us get started in reloading and bullet casting on a shoestring, but not all of their products are perfect, I will still support them and buy those products that work well for me.

[WildmanJack]

Just my 2 cents.
I've had Star's, Lyman, Pacific, RCBS ( still have two of them) and a couple I never did know the name of. I now have a Dillon 450 and 550B. If I had to pick between my old Star Universal loaders ( which I wish I still had!!!) and my Dillons I would be hard pressed to decide which one was better. The Star was smaller, more compact, had auto shell feed, and was as smooth as a baby's bottom to run. The Dillon's (both of them are just as smooth, although quite a bit larger.
But since you can't buy a new Star machine, and f you get an old one, parts are like hens teeth to find. I'll have to go with Dillon. They are the best when it comes to customer service, and so easy to use and set up. For the money, ease of operation, fantastic customer service, and consistent target quality loads I'd go with the Dillon.
Good luck on whatever your choice is.
Jack

[mike in co]

Mike: I don't have the auto case feeder for the 650 and to compare it to the load master with a case feeder I get about 30 percent more volume is what I meant.



If you don't want to spend the 3 hours with a Dillon and want it to run out of the box and don't mind the extra 2/3 more money then go for it.

You will be happy with a Dillon 650.

I can make the lee stuff work is all I am saying, it isn't that hard.

i find it a bit strange.......

of the thousand and thousands of 650's sold...exactly two people have claimed they either did not work or required"three hours" of adjustments to make it work.............(on these forums)

but dillon is able to just barely stay afloat..............

the part i find really strange is that the same person states " I can make the lee stuff work is all I am saying, it isn't that hard."

i dont 'WORK" on my dillons...they work for me......no three hours of adjustments.....no "I can make the (dillon) stuff work is all I am saying, it isn't that hard."

i'm glad u like lee 1000's....but the popular vote says it has nowhere near the following and use as dillon products.

your staement"I can make the lee stuff..... it isn't that hard." says it all..

consider this...time is money.....if you had back all the time you spent making lee's work, you couls own dillon's that do work.
one of my little guidelines in life......time cannot be replaced...no not waste my time.

mike in co

[Recluse]

I have two Pro 1000's and IMHO they should be dedicated to one caliber,

Agree with this 100%.

I load far more .38 Special than any other calibers combined. I shoot it a lot, my wife shoots it a lot, and now the adopted daughter is discovering the joy of blasting her day's frustrations away at paper targets ala 105SWC mouseloads in a S&W Model 19 2 1/2".

So my only Pro1000 stays set up for the .38 Special the vast majority of the time. I have four different turrets each with different .38 Special dies in them, already adjusted for each boolit I load. Staying consistent like that, with the preparation tips I mentioned in a previous post, it's a hard press to beat for the price.

The problems begin when you start changing calibers. Big problems start arising when you change shell plate carriers and so on.

Changing calibers on any progressive is never fun, I don't care what ANY of the companies say or claim. It's a mild to major PITA depending upon the machine and caliber. The 550B is probably the most caliber-change friendly of all true progressives.

:coffee:

[thehouseproduct]

Well I guess that pretty much answers it. Luckily with the Dillon it seems there are always people buying a complete setup with all the trim, realizing they don't want to reload and selling them. I will wait for the right sale and go for it. (Not on here of coarse, finding quality equipment in standard calibers here is impossible.)

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

HMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

I know they are the new dog when compared to Dillon, but other then the opening post I don't see the Hornady LNL spoken of anywhere.

You should at least, find someone who has one set up and running and CHECK IT OUT!

You will find them well below the $700 - 800 you speak of for the Dillon and from what I read much less costly to switch over between calibers.

Then, there is also the "free" 500 bullets that come with the Hornady.

I got mine when they were still giving the 1000 bullets, so that with the goodly amount I had in Cabela's points put me into the progresive at a very good price.

After many years of single stage loading, I did find there to be a learning curve, but the more that I load the more that I find I am at home with the system.

I do not shoot competition, so do not try to push production to the max, figuring that even at a some what leasurely pace I am producing my handgun ammo at a rate waaaaaaaaay beyond that of the single stage.

From what I read, you need to go to the Dillon 650 to get an apples to apples picture of the Dillon to Hornady systems.

Not knocking anyones Dillon here, they must be a very good machine as there are many devoted Dillon owners, but then there are also those who like Lee progressives, so go figure.

Very few Lee items reside in this camp, but that is a personal thing like owning nothing but a Dillon is to other folk, however the old green single stage is still with me and will remain for the loading of rifle ammo.

The Hornady is at least worth a look.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[sargenv]

As good as the 550's are, and even with the case feeder that they now offer... I've had three of four friends blow up their firearm of choice when double charging their pistol case using their manual index 550's.. I have several friends who use the auto index SDB, 650, and 1050's and none of them have ever had the experience of a double charge kaboom. Yes the 650 is a bit steep.. I had the priviledge of using a pro 1000, and previous to that my Rock Chucker for en mass loading.. nothing compares to the 650 in speed of loading and/or changeover from caliber to caliber. It takes me about 15 mins to completely change over from small pistol (40 S&W) to large rifle (30-30, 308 win) which includes die changeover, primer punch changeover, case feed changeover, and powder measure changeover. The calibration of the dies and final set of the crimp etc takes a few more mins.

In addition to loading ammo, I also use the 650 to seat the cores in the 9mm brass that I then later swage with the die from BT Sniper in my 9mm into jacketed 40 S&W bullets.. It can really speed up that process. I have a friend who had the Hornady but he sold it and picked up a 650. There is a reason (besides marketing) that Dillon Blue is so popular. My press has some quirks, but to use anything else would likely really drive me crazy.. When I'm really cranking and in the groove, I'm making my 40 S&W's at the rated 800 ish per hour. Whenever I've broken something.. it's been because I've been impatient, if you don't do what I've done, it will simply keep on cranking out ammo..

[NWFLYJ]

As good as the 550's are, and even with the case feeder that they now offer... I've had three of four friends blow up their firearm of choice when double charging their pistol case using their manual index 550's..


I do not understand how they managed to double charge, they would have to pull the handle on the press twice. That being said, they must of had trouble putting a second bullet on top of the one that was just pressed into the case (with your left hand) and they had to notice that when putting a new case in (with the right hand) that the hole was filled allready.

I have heard it before but don't buy it. My guess is the walked away from the press and came back or was asked a question while operating the press and they forgot what they were doing.

Maybe I'm missing something and have not had my 550 raise its ugly double charge head. Any other 550 users here had the double charge problem? Mark

Good thread on the ledgend of the 550 causing a double charge here.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=79681&highlight=550+double+charge



Let me say this double charge is my stupid fault and has nothing to do with my Dillon 550. I am quite sure this happened when I was setting the measure and not in the normal routine of loading.

To prevent this from happening again I will use UNPRIMED cases at stage 2 to check and set the powder measure THEN once it is set start reloading. Feel like a complete a$$ over this. 35 years of reloading and....well heck it was a cheap lesson fortunately. If you want to scare the heck out of yourself plus jam a gun up pretty good in the process this is just about as good a way as I can think of. Wish I had a camera when it happened. About the only thing I didn't do is wet myself. To busy kicking myself in the backside for being so dumb!

and yes it was a 1911 - my customized Norinco. Good steel in those guns, would have really upset me if I had broke the gun, got a few bucks tied up into that shooter and she is was great shooter I can tell you.
Take Care


One reason I don't like the 550 is that it doesn't have auto advance. The SDB and 650's do. I've seen two or three guns blown up due to double charged fast burning pistol powder loaded on 550's.


Sargenv, If the bullet is seated in the next station after the powder drop/case flare, then you don't have a place to put a new bullet. So you know you haven't advanced the shellplate, right? It can't be any simpler then that.

[btroj]

While a double charge is possible with a 550 it would take operator error. In the end it is the user who is responsible for the safety of the ammo. This is a case of people blaming the tool for the error of a human.
I am very careful when loading on my 550. I pay close attention to everything and when in doubt, I throw out the round in question. I also never load over 300 rounds at one time- I want to avoid any chance of fatigue becoming an issue.
Anyone not willing to pay close attention has no business using any progressive press. And they are definitely not for a beginner.
Just my opinion, but safety trumps speed every time. And safety is MY job, not the presses.
Brad

[Springfield]

I have had my first 550 for about 18 years and have never double charged case. And I shoot cowboy matches at least twice a month,so I reload more than some. Before that I shot at the range at work every Wednesday at least with my nines and 40's. Now I shoot BP and load my wife's smokeless with Trailboss so it is almost impossible to double charge anyway. But I bought the little flashlight from Unique-tek( http://www.uniquetek.com/site/696296/product/T1255 )and it helps also. Nothing is perfect,and relying on the machine instead of being careful will eventually get you in trouble, kinda like assuming the safety on your gun will always work.

[mike in co]

As good as the 550's are, and even with the case feeder that they now offer... I've had three of four friends blow up their firearm of choice when double charging their pistol case using their manual index 550's.. I have several friends who use the auto index SDB, 650, and 1050's and none of them have ever had the experience of a double charge kaboom. Yes the 650 is a bit steep.. I had the priviledge of using a pro 1000, and previous to that my Rock Chucker for en mass loading.. o..

lets make one thing perfectly clear.
THE DILLON PRESS DID NOT BLOW UP ANY GUNS.
THE OPERATOR CHOSE TO USE A POWDER CHARGE THAT ALLOWED A DOUBLE CHARGE IN THE CASE.
OPERATOR ERROR AND A DUMB CHOICE BY THE OPERATOR.

plain and simple.
dont go putting blame on a MACHINE operated by a PERSON.

i have pointed out several times that using charges of less than 50% OF CASE VOLUME is a dumb decision.....your friends seem to have found that out the hard way.

or denied it was THIER error, and blamed the MACHINE.
ANSWER ME THIS: HOW MANY ROUNDS CAN A 550B LOAD WITH NO HUMAN INPUT ?

mike in co

[sargenv]

I do not understand how they managed to double charge, they would have to pull the handle on the press twice. That being said, they must of had trouble putting a second bullet on top of the one that was just pressed into the case (with your left hand) and they had to notice that when putting a new case in (with the right hand) that the hole was filled allready.


When you load a 45 with 3.3 gr of powder, and if you are fairly new, you may not notice that it dropped 6.6 gr. Personally, I don't like presses that you need advance.. it may be the nut pulling the handle's fault, but when the press auto-indexes, the chances of it happening go down quite a bit since you really have to try and double it. In most cases, they were likely distracted when charging that particular case, they should have dumped the powder (but did not), got lost, and charged it again. Since the powder was not noticeable, they kept going and later on *BOOM*. 8.4 gr of Titegroup can fit in a 40 S&W case and if you are not paying attention, the bullet will seat. Max charge is in the 4.5 gr range with a 180 gr bullet. When you seat them longer than SAAMI max, you might not notice the double charge "bulge" that you'd see in a bullet that would normally be 1.135" STI's and Para's generally have you seating the bullet way out to 1.220".

I know someone who was fairly well versed at reloading double charge a 44 magnum with 2x9 gr of bullseye using a Lee Pro 1000.. again large case capacity coupled with a powder that you could not physically see or overflow lead to disaster. Thankfully he had a strong revolver (Ruger Redhawk) and all it did was seize it up real well. He sent it back to Ruger and they fixed it and sent it back to him. He learned his lesson and taught me to choose powders that will absolutely be noticable as a double charge.. or use a charge that is less than 1/2 of max, so the double will feel a little hot without being dangerous. He had to think about how it happened.. and the thought process went like this.. He dropped the charge, took the case out of the press to check the charge, (at this point he should have dumped it and put it back at square 1), he put the case back in the press, charged it again, and advancd it to seat the bullet. Big oops.. but not really far fetched if you don't catch yourself.

I just related my experiences.. I've personally never had one of these things happen to me.. but I've seen the consequences of it on more than one occasion, the only thing that was common was they were using a Dillon 550 (except for that one other person using the Lee Pro 1000). No need to get angry.. :) I call em like I see em..

[NWFLYJ]

When you load a 45 with 3.3 gr of powder, and if you are fairly new, you may not notice that it dropped 6.6 gr. Personally, I don't like presses that you need advance.. it may be the nut pulling the handle's fault, but when the press auto-indexes, the chances of it happening go down quite a bit No need to get angry.. :) I call em like I see em..


Please don't get me wrong, I'm not angry at all. I argee with you about the nut pulling the handle.

If you are loading 45 with 3.3 of powder and it drops 6.6, I'm thinking it is a problem with the powder dispenser not the press. Just kicking idea's around here. Mark

[Tazman1602]

Got a Dillon 550B about 15 years ago and never looked back. I had an issue with it indexing properly about a year ago and Dillon sent me the parts and instructions NO CHARGE and even a bunch of new parts that had been updated, again NO CHARGE. They are a great company to deal with and the 550 even though it is manually indexed doesn't bother me a bit.

.................Now in the longevity department I've still got my RCBS Rock Crusher on the bench right next to it and I've had that one for close to 30 years...................

Art

[sargenv]

If you are loading 45 with 3.3 of powder and it drops 6.6, I'm thinking it is a problem with the powder dispenser not the press. Just kicking idea's around here.

Not so much that it's dropping 6.6, just that the goofball behind the press yanking on the handle may have dropped 6.6 (being distracted and pulling it twice) and there ya go :)

I've had it happen where I was loading on a progressive 12 gauge press and something got my attention for just a second and I forgot to put a wad where I needed and wound up with an ounce of shot dropped on top of 19 gr of red dot.. and I didn't notice anything until I pulled the shell out of the press and was sitting there wondering why it was dished in.... and then.. oh.. d'uh! ;)

I guess since we are all different, those of us who are very meticulous can't understand those of us who are a little less meticulous or those of us who are downright dangerous when we have our own thoughts (tounge planted firmly in cheek here 8) ) that we can't believe that things can and do go goofy with one little distraction sometimes resulting in catastrophic results.

[AggieEE]

I'll throw my 2 cents in. I have loaded for years on a RockChucker and decided to upgrade to a progressive. I tried a Pro 1000 and the only ongoing problem is with the primer feed. Having read Recluse's hint for waxing and dry lubing the primer chute I'll give it a try. The other problem was with a flake powder ( Solo 1000) I found I was getting a half charge in one case and a charge and a half in the next. Needless to say I had a lot of fun with an impact puller. Luckly I didn't fire any, might have been exciting. Cleaned out the powder drop tube and made sure there was no lumps in the powder next time around no problems. As to the Dillon machines I had a neighbor here at the shop that was a commercial reloder. Had nothoing but dillion machines. During times I didn't want to work was over there watching the machines work. I've seen powder spills, primer misfeeds, failure to index right, case feed failures, two powder measures with cracked housings. No indictment of the machines, I have no idea how many thousands of rounds each one loaded or what PM was done on the machines. Not much from what I've seen. The whole point of this is anytime you have something more complicated than a fork things are going to break, not work right and in general be a pain in the you know what. Pick any product that has a large market, cars, guns whatever. You buy one item of brand X and you have nothing but problems with it. It leaves a bad taste in your mouth and you hate brand X. Your buddy buys brand X and is so happy you can't stand it. Who's right??? Not looking for a fight, been on both sides of the deal. Like I said just my 2 cents.
AggieEE

[mike in co]

aggieee,
that is sorta like going to the service department of a ford/chevy/dodge dealer, seeing all the cars being worked on, and deciding that those makes break a lot.......

how many lee 1000's did the commercial reloader have > how many rcbs > how many hornady ?

yes machines that get used tend to wear and maybe even break....in dillon's case they are repaired at no additional cost to the owner.

mike in co

[runfiverun]

just buy the 550 already.
it's simple,affective,effective, and reliable.
oh yeah it works.

[hunter64]

If you don't want to spend the 3 hours with a Dillon and want it to run out of the box and don't mind the extra 2/3 more money then go for it.

Man I need more sleep.

I meant the 3 hours that you need to spend on a Lee 1000 to make it work, the dillon will run right out of the box and need no fixing which is fine if you don't mind spending the 2/3 more money up front.


Wonder how many thousands of rounds I made on my old RCBS JR. that I bought new in 1972 in High School. Still use it for load development.

[Lloyd Smale]

you must run with a pretty much learning disabled crowd. I could see the possibility of knowing one friend who did it but 3 or 4! bottom line is if your that stupid it will eventually happen to you even if you load on a single stage press or a true progressive. I would have to think in this day and age of product liablilty law suites being filed for about everything if dillon really thought a guy could blame a press for an idiotic mistake like that they would have pulled them off the market long ago. I dont know how many round ive loaded on 550s but it would probably fill a pickup truck and ive yet to have a double charge on one.
As good as the 550's are, and even with the case feeder that they now offer... I've had three of four friends blow up their firearm of choice when double charging their pistol case using their manual index 550's.. I have several friends who use the auto index SDB, 650, and 1050's and none of them have ever had the experience of a double charge kaboom. Yes the 650 is a bit steep.. I had the priviledge of using a pro 1000, and previous to that my Rock Chucker for en mass loading.. nothing compares to the 650 in speed of loading and/or changeover from caliber to caliber. It takes me about 15 mins to completely change over from small pistol (40 S&W) to large rifle (30-30, 308 win) which includes die changeover, primer punch changeover, case feed changeover, and powder measure changeover. The calibration of the dies and final set of the crimp etc takes a few more mins.

In addition to loading ammo, I also use the 650 to seat the cores in the 9mm brass that I then later swage with the die from BT Sniper in my 9mm into jacketed 40 S&W bullets.. It can really speed up that process. I have a friend who had the Hornady but he sold it and picked up a 650. There is a reason (besides marketing) that Dillon Blue is so popular. My press has some quirks, but to use anything else would likely really drive me crazy.. When I'm really cranking and in the groove, I'm making my 40 S&W's at the rated 800 ish per hour. Whenever I've broken something.. it's been because I've been impatient, if you don't do what I've done, it will simply keep on cranking out ammo..

[odis]

Never owned a Lee so I cant comment on their stuff but I bought a SQD when the cost hmm what did I pay maybe 125 or 150 but it had a white spacer under the tool head and I have used it for 38/357 44 mag and 44 spec. and 45 colt, used it enough that the main frame cracked last year and the replaced it along with a bunch of other stuff that I didn't know was wrong with it and the only cost was sending it to them. I don't shoot a lot of rifle ammo so I get by just fine with a single stage RCBS for them, but I couldn't live without my Dillon for my pistolas.

[Bob.]

If you are thinking Dillon then look at the Hornady LnL AP as well, its at least as good as the 650 if not better and cheaper too. I love mine.

This link might be of interest:

http://www.comrace.ca/cmfiles/dillonLeeHornadyComparison.pdf

Another LNL fan here,
Nice press!

Bob

[sargenv]

you must run with a pretty much learning disabled crowd. I could see the possibility of knowing one friend who did it but 3 or 4! bottom line is if your that stupid it will eventually happen to you even if you load on a single stage press or a true progressive. I would have to think in this day and age of product liablilty law suites being filed for about everything if dillon really thought a guy could blame a press for an idiotic mistake like that they would have pulled them off the market long ago. I dont know how many round ive loaded on 550s but it would probably fill a pickup truck and ive yet to have a double charge on one.

Not so much that I run with the crowd.. just that in USPSA or action shooting of any kind, if you get the itch to do it, you find out quickly that buying factory ammo is cost prohibitive, so you get a lot of new reloaders who don't have a lot of reloading experience buying "what everyone else has" which is a Dillon Progressive. Personally, I didn't get a Dillon until I'd been using my Rock Chucker for about 10 years and various shotshell presses for an equal amount of time so I knew the ins and outs of reloading.

You get these newbs that buy a progressive, and they don't understand the ramifications of what might happen.. and in the 12 years of shooting the action game, I've known a lot of shooters (heck, last month we had 100 competitors at a club match, 25% of them were first time shooters). So I've likely seen em come and go.. The newbs tend to get advice from dubious sources, online forums elsewhere, and from other newbs.. A lot of the ppl in my club look up to me if they have questions about powders, loads, and a host of things, so maybe I tend to "hear" about incidents more than other people. My club is the largest action shooting club in Northern California and only one of three venues than can host a state level sanctioned level III USPSA match (of which I've had the dubious priviledge of being a match director).

On another note.. IT IS NOT THE PRESS DOING IT.... it is the guy or gal behind the press, making a boneheaded mistake, and fessing up that it was their fault and the attitude of "Why the heck would I blame Dillon for my stupidity?" way of thinking.. and I guess I use the term "friend" loosely.. they are more aquaintances than people I spend any amount of time with other than at the range.

Again, it's not the fault of the press, if you charge a case and do not manually index it(or your press does not index it for you), all of the other operations will repeat, but that powder measure will drop another charge and if you are not paying attention and it doesn't overflow (using the method of 2x powder = overflow or 2x powder does not equal max charge) then that is a recipe for disaster no matter which press you use.

On another note.. I have only ever had the one powder measure that came with my 650.. earlier this year, it finally broke.. and the part that broke was the bottom frame part of it. Stress of 100's of thousands of rounds finally showed and a small tab broke. I called Dillon and they had the part to me within a few days.

[casterofboolits]

I have no experience with Lee progressive presses and what it takes to keep them going. Sounds like you have to be good at mechanical tinkering.

My Dillon SDB always runs great and has been for twenty years. I paid $173.50 for it and bought all the conversions for 9mm, 38 Super, 40 S&W and 38/357.

For 45 ACP I have a CH Mk 5a (no longer in produciction) and I'm looking for a used SDB to replace it. The Mk5a is a nightmare to keep in tune, but built like a tank. I can't even sell the darn thing as CH no longer make parts for it. In fact, I have two of them! The CH with case feed cost $500.00 back in the mid 80's. Dillon wasn't on the market at the time.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Bob's comparison link for Lee, Hornady and Dillon should be required reading for all who are looking at this situation.

If you haven't read it, it is worth the time!!!!

It puts the red against blue thing in good perspective.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[mike in co]

[QUOTE=casterofboolits;1007787]I have no experience with Dillon progressive presses and what it takes to keep them going. Sounds like you have to be good at mechanical tinkering.

QUOTE]

did you mis speak ?
ne experience with dillon progressive , but you have a sdb ??

the sdb is a progrerssive...

and dillons do not require tinkering to keep them running...were you talking abou tlee ???

??????????????
mike in co

[angus6]

how the heck would AggieEE get a charge and a half in Lee disk ? I can see a half charge but a hole only holds x amount

[casterofboolits]

[QUOTE=casterofboolits;1007787]I have no experience with Dillon progressive presses and what it takes to keep them going. Sounds like you have to be good at mechanical tinkering.

QUOTE]

did you mis speak ?
ne experience with dillon progressive , but you have a sdb ??

the sdb is a progrerssive...

and dillons do not require tinkering to keep them running...were you talking abou tlee ???

??????????????
mike in co

Yes, I had a brain fart. But, I'm allowed, I have a hole in my brain and the cat scan to prove it. :bigsmyl2:

[NWFLYJ]

Yes, I had a brain fart. But, I'm allowed, I have a hole in my brain and the cat scan to prove it. :bigsmyl2:

"Double charge" accident?:mrgreen:

[sargenv]

"Double charge" accident? :D

lol...

[Lloyd Smale]

imo for what its worth your going to have a much bigger chance of a squib load or double charge with a press that isnt reliable and is causeing you to stop and clear problems all the time then you ever would with a reliable press like a 550. Start and stop 10 times in a loading session (not unheard of when using a lee progressive) and do that every day for a week and theres a good chance in your frustration that your going accidently let something bad slide through. Bottom line is even i had a couple squibs back when i used lee presses. Ive never had a bad round loaded on a 550, 650 or lnl and im sure ive loaded well over a million rounds on them.

[UNIQUEDOT]

Funny, you always read these posts that have been asked 100's of times and it usually starts out with Lee 1000=****. When you offer to buy there Lee 1000 piece of **** miraculously there are none for sale. Funny also when was the last time you saw a used Lee Load master on fley bay, like hardly ever. Wonder what happens to all those crappy load masters out there.


When i see those types of posts or reviews i cant help but laugh because it tells me one of two things.

1 the person making such statements has either never owned one or has purchased a used damaged unit or one missing parts.

2 If the person is not smart enough to operate these simple machines, they are not IMO smart enough to be reloading in the first place!

The load master is almost trouble free, same as my pk1 and when there is trouble it can be fixed in less than 3 or 4 minutes.

[odis]

I'm not trying to fuel any fire here but if I were to feel the need to get a different press that would reload bottle necked or straight case ammo that the square deal can't handle it would be a 550, only because Dillon has been so fair with me to buy anything else would be quite craven. I have no other experience with anything else and probably never will.

[mike in co]

if you are only going to do one round...45colt....then save your money and buy a SDB......


NO NEED FOR A 550 NOR A LNL


mike in co

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

If your going to do only one caliber, buy the Hornady LNL and with the 500 "Free" Jacketed bullets for your 45, you have one whale of a deal and a press that will take you far beyond a SDB if and when that time comes.

All at a very good price.

I thought about a SDB for years before I finally bought a progressive, and the cost of switching calibers and the fact the dies are good only in a SDB, just never penciled out.

Keep em coming !

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[mike in co]

If your going to do only one caliber, buy the Hornady LNL and with the 500 "Free" Jacketed bullets for your 45, you have one whale of a deal and a press that will take you far beyond a SDB if and when that time comes.

All at a very good price.

I thought about a SDB for years before I finally bought a progressive, and the cost of switching calibers and the fact the dies are good only in a SDB, just never penciled out.

Keep em coming !

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

but he is only shoointg/loading one caliber...so there is no changeout cost...the sdb comes set up he adjust for his powder and his boolit and goes to town.
he never said anything about the future adding or loading any more....

based on his data...a square deal b in 45 colt is the answer.

[Phil A]

Despite the fact that I understand “buy once, cry once”. I seem to always learn the hard way. I have learned that many items are worth the extra pennies. Powder measures, scales, casting tools, etc. On some things I learned that Lee is more than adequate for the price, 6 bangers, collet dies, FCD, etc.

So I currently have a Lee Pro1000. I have come to the conclusion that I will have an aneurysm if I have to fix it jamming one more time. I began to look into Dillon and Hornady progressive presses. It was then that I realized that an auto indexing press with a case feeder from them would cost $700-$800 instead of $160. My question is, is it worth it? Have many of you switched and never looked back? Is the Dillon 550 with manual index frustrating after using an auto index? What about an auto indexing turret from lee? Does the Lee Loadmaster work much better than the Pro1000?

Opinions please.

I have a couple dedicated Pro1000s and have learned to live with them. However for other calibers I use the Lee classic cast turret and it works trouble free but not as fast as an expensive progressive. Make sure you get the classic "cast" turret version and also get the small and large safety primer feeders.

For not much money, you can move the pro auto powder measure with the spring & lever arm parts and the auto disk riser (search "Lee powder" on MidwayUSA). Perhaps add a rifle charging die, double powder disk kit and extra turrets and you are all set.

Sell the Lee Pro1000 press and wait until you win the lottery and buy a progressive with all the bells and whistles. - Phil

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Well Mike in Co,

Back in the 60s I only intended to load for 2 calibers, the 243 and the 300Savage.

However, since then I have loaded for at least 20 different rounds.

I have no CURRENT need or intention to load rifle rounds on a progressive, but have loaded a number of handgun cartridges over the years, all of which are loadable on the LNL or a Dillon 550 or 650 for that matter.

So, no matter how many times I looked at the SDB, as I said before, it just doesn't pencil out, cost wise.

Much, MUCH to expensive to switch calibers when you consider the fact the dies are not usable on other standard loading presses, even Dillon's own products

And that, inspite of the fact I started loading for only ONE handgun, the 38/357, but now load or have loaded for a total of 7 different handgun rounds.

Just an Ol'Coot's opinion.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[fryboy]

how the heck would AggieEE get a charge and a half in Lee disk ? I can see a half charge but a hole only holds x amount

while quite true that a disk cavity will only hold so much quite often the problem is the drop tube , if not free from grease or oil it will also hang in there and either bridged or clumped it lets go when it wants or gets too heavy to hang in there , a super clean and flitzed drop tube has never presented me that problem and many folks who swear by dillons presses use a lee powder measure , IIRC lee and dillon exchanged patent rights on powder measures and priming parts



as for the rest of the chevy dodge ford debate 99% of failures with these presses are operator failures - even if the operator can not admit it and by thinking it wont happen to u is setting urself up for it to happen they are also all in a separate class and it isnt really comparing chevy/ford/etc but more like apples and oranges or ford/chevy vs. rolls royce vs. yugo .... one has to think that if he can make something work that another cant then that's the problem ( or the solution)

[dudel]

I've heard people say, "I got rid of the Lee and got a Dillon (or Hornady)".

I've heard people say "I've got a Lee, until I can step up to a Dillon (or Hornady)".

I've never heard anyone say "I can't wait for my new Lee to arrive so I can get rid of this Dillon (or Hornady)".

Now I have heard people say that they do get their Lee working IF they a) fiddle with it a lot, or b) dedicate it to a single caliber so as to avoid changing it once it gets working.

Go with the Dillon (or Hornady) you won't be sorry. Hornady is a very good value when you consider the free projectile offer.

[hunter64]

Hornady is a very good value when you consider the free projectile offer.

I am thinking of picking up a Hornady Lock and Load. I have a Dillon 650 and my brother wants to take it with him when he moves up north next week. I thought the free offer was over but 500 bullets is nothing to sneeze at.

[KYCaster]

When i see those types of posts or reviews i cant help but laugh because it tells me one of two things.

1 the person making such statements has either never owned one or has purchased a used damaged unit or one missing parts.

2 If the person is not smart enough to operate these simple machines, they are not IMO smart enough to be reloading in the first place!

The load master is almost trouble free, same as my pk1 and when there is trouble it can be fixed in less than 3 or 4 minutes.


That wasn't my post that you quoted, but it could have been. I've said the exact same thing on several occasions.

BUT....#1} I bought a Pro 1000 new and two others were given to me by frustrated owners. One just needed a new ratchet, the other was pretty much mangled and need extensive work to repair. I bought a new Load Master and another at a greatly reduced price from a frustrated owner.

#2) That's almost word for word what Richard Lee said to me when I was trying to resolve some issues with the first Load Master. Rather than admit that his design wasn't absolutely perfect, he chose to insult me. It kind of teed me off at the time and I find it has pretty much the same effect now.

When you say the Load Master is almost trouble free, I can agree with that with some reservations...It can be ALMOST trouble free if you know how to do it. With the right dies, proper adjustment, preventive maintenance, proper selection of primers and diligent inspection of brass, I was able to maintain about 96+% good reloads with the LM. By decapping in a separate operation and cleaning/uniforming primer pockets I could improve that percentage somewhat. Using mixed head stamp brass with no other change would drop the percentage to 87% or so. (most of the rejects related to primers)

Mine would run fine with Win primers, but Fed (too soft) or CCI (too hard) would cause some hang ups and would damage the chintzy little plastic primer shuttle, so I had to keep a good supply of those on hand. CCI primers and brass with LC, WCC, S&B and some others would result in lots of high primers that had to be inspected and seated later with a hand priming tool. (I did many thousands of them without a problem but it always made me nervous )

Dillon sizing dies with their huge radius on the bottom worked well, but Lee sizing dies (go figger), which I prefer because they size much closer to the base of the case, would cause an occasional hang up when the case wouldn't exactly line up with the die and any glitch in the stroke would cause a primer jam.

The final straw was when I called(toll call, why don't they have an 800 no?) and Richard Lee answered the phone...

I was impressed!! Here's the guy who designed the press, he has all the answers....NOT!! He suggested I was intellectually challenged and wasn't mentally capable of operating such a fine machine. There isn't any problem with that cheap little stamped sheet metal lever that seats primers and any problem I had with it was obviously due to my own lack of mechanical aptitude and if I were capable of understanding the simplicity of his design I could turn out quality ammo by the truck load. He then suggested that I may be more satisfied with Dillon equipment. (Yes he actually said that)

So, I took him up on his offer....I sold all the Lee progressive presses and bought.....Hornady.

I really considered Dillon,(I eventually bought a SDB from a friend and am happy with it) because everyone raved about their "no BS warranty". But then I noticed that every Dillon owner I talked to....EVERY ONE...when they praised the warranty it was some variation of, "I broke the ***** on my 550 and they had the part on the way the next day...FREE!" Well, that's fine, but the message I got was that every press that Dillon sold....BROKE.

I now have two Hornady LNL presses. One I bought new five years ago. I load about 20,000 45ACP per year on it. I bought the other slightly used.(I had to adjust the index pins on it) I swap it between 223 and 38 Super and load ~10,000 per year on it.

The Hornady presses have not been completely trouble free. There is a learning curve. There is some PM required (nothing compared to Lee's ****). And I honestly can't tell you anything at all about their warranty....NOTHING HAS BROKEN!!!!!

Jerry

[mike in co]

right...BUT THIS IS NOT YOUR THREAD...THE GUY THAT ASKED JUST SAID one round...PERIOD.


EVERYONE STARTS WIHT ONE.....CAUSE YOU HAVE TO START SOMEWHERE
but again based on his request..a square deal b fits the bill....

mike in co
Well Mike in Co,

Back in the 60s I only intended to load for 2 calibers, the 243 and the 300Savage.

However, since then I have loaded for at least 20 different rounds.

I have no CURRENT need or intention to load rifle rounds on a progressive, but have loaded a number of handgun cartridges over the years, all of which are loadable on the LNL or a Dillon 550 or 650 for that matter.

So, no matter how many times I looked at the SDB, as I said before, it just doesn't pencil out, cost wise.

Much, MUCH to expensive to switch calibers when you consider the fact the dies are not usable on other standard loading presses, even Dillon's own products

And that, inspite of the fact I started loading for only ONE handgun, the 38/357, but now load or have loaded for a total of 7 different handgun rounds.

Just an Ol'Coot's opinion.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Lloyd Smale]

Well in my opinion the lees are far from ALMOST TROUBLE FREE. Ive owned pro1000s and one loadmaster and if anything the loadmaster was more of a headache then the pro1000. I know some guys get by with them but thats just what there doing, getting by. When i load i want to load not fiddle with a press. I do know that one of the lees will make ammo and make good ammo if all the stars are aligned and i also know that not everyone that is a handloader is into it enough to justify the expense of a dillon or hornady but if you factor in that something like a 550 is a one time expense and something that will last you a lifetime its actually a bargin. I see alot of guys post that they just cant afford one or that they cant see spending that kind of money on a press but id bet if you checked they probably bought 3 new guns that year. Give up one of those guns and buy yourself a good press. theres also the type of guy that will never admit what they bought is inferior because there just to smart to buy junk. Like the lee guys that want to claim that those presses are every bit as good as a dillon or hornady. Im just the oposite. If i buy something that is a pain in the but im the first guy thats going to tell the world that i wasted my money. I get alot of no handloaders and casters that stop buy to get some advice and to try out equiptment. the first thing i tell them is that theres three things i wouldnt be without. A 550 dillon a star sizer and a good quality casting pot like a rcbs or lyman. they sometimes roll there eyes in there head and say i just cant afford that. But again i bring up the fact that for the price of a good bolt rifle and a quality scope you can buy all three of them. Some dont listen and figure there more intelegent then me buy saving themselves 500 bucks by going with the lee stuff and down the road after using there lee precision;) stuff stop back buy and watch me load and decide they need better. they would have saved money in the long run by bucking up and buying the right stuff from the git go. Ill make anyone here with a lee progressive a deal. You come over and bring your lee press and we will mount it up on one of my benches and i will run my 550 and both of us will load a 2000 rounds of any handgun ammo of your choise. If you finish before me ill give you the 550.

[mike in co]

like i said..i think lloyd is the only one to own both..now i know better...all,,,,,,,,

read and learn

thanks lloyd

mike in co

[Swede44mag]

Only thing I don't like about the 550B is changing the primeer feed. I bought the first one in 1991 IIRC and used the h*** out of it in 45 ACP and now 44 Magnum. I wanted to shoot 357 more, but changing the primer feed was a PITA! So...I worked overtime one Saturday and GRAFS' had another 550B with my name on it.

Now I'm looking at my STAR lubricator/sizer and thinking....

:Fire::castmine::redneck:

I have 2 Dillon 550B presses one set for Large Primers the other for Small Primers.
I also have 2 STAR Lubricator/sizers one for .357 the other for .429 and a Lyman for .459 it is sure nice not to have to reset all the dies & primer feeders.

Swede

[Lloyd Smale]

for the guy that is just going to reload one or even two handgun calibers a square deal is a hell of a press. I dont know how many rounds ive cranked out in my lifetime on square deals but it has to be in the hundreds of thousand. We there short throw there very fast. I can load on one as fast when i get my bullets and cases close and get in a rhythm as fast as a 650 with a case feeder. I hear all the time that there a pain to swap calibers and thats just bunk. I can swap one out in less then 5 minutes. Only differnce between swapping calibers on one of them compared to a 550 is you have to unscrew 3 screws holding the die plate compared to poping the two pins on a 550. I always wondered why dillon didnt make a case feeder for a square deal but id bet its because if they did it would be faster then a 650 or a 1050 and the sales of those presses would probably suffer. If they came out with one that was set up from the git go for a case feeder like the 650 id buy a couple again in a heartbeat.
right...BUT THIS IS NOT YOUR THREAD...THE GUY THAT ASKED JUST SAID one round...PERIOD.


EVERYONE STARTS WIHT ONE.....CAUSE YOU HAVE TO START SOMEWHERE
but again based on his request..a square deal b fits the bill....

mike in co

[casterofboolits]

"Double charge" accident?:mrgreen:

Nah. Stroke, which means part of your brain dies. Lukily affected the left side as I am right handed. Makes typing a bear tho.:coffee:

[David2011]

I do not understand how they managed to double charge, they would have to pull the handle on the press twice. That being said, they must of had trouble putting a second bullet on top of the one that was just pressed into the case (with your left hand) and they had to notice that when putting a new case in (with the right hand) that the hole was filled allready.

I have heard it before but don't buy it. My guess is the walked away from the press and came back or was asked a question while operating the press and they forgot what they were doing.


I'm not sure why you would think someone would try to put two bullets in a case. If you fail to rotate, you would only go to the bullet station once, after adding a second powder charge. As badly as I hate to admit it, I have double charged a case on a 550. I was pulling a lot of cases out to verify powder charges because I was using a marginally low powder charge for .45 ACP steel plate loads. They were so light that even with an 8 pound recoil spring a tenth short would not cycle correctly. Fortunately, the double of a very light load got my attention but did no damage to the 1911 or my body. It did damage my psyche, though. The paranoia level definitely went up a little, making me pay far greater attention. I had owned the 550 about 15 years when it happened, so it was not new to me. I have also managed to not charge a case in the 550. It's easy to do any time you do anything to interrupt the smooth flow of repetition. The Square Deal and 650 make it much more difficult to introduce this HUMAN ERROR. It is not the fault of the machine.

I noticed a buddy always left the handle down/ ram in the up position on his progressive press. I didn't have to ask why. The handle up/ ram down can be ambiguous but it it's left in the downstroke position you KNOW that you have a bullet seated and powder in the case at the charging station. I adpoted his practice and really like it.

The 650 is more expensive to buy, uses more expensive caliber conversions and has IMO a far superior primer handling system. It is far faster than the 550 or SDB for me but then I load a lot at a time so it's worth the extra expense. All of my 650 loading is handgun cartridges, mostly .40 and .45 ACP. I agree that the 550 is very friendly when changing calibers and primer sizes. The SDB is OK but I don't use it much. I do all of my progressive rifle loading on the 550. That's mostly .223 and some .30-'06 and I still prep the cases on a single stage press. I just prime, charge the case and seat the bullet on the progressive.

David

[geargnasher]

I for one will never claim that Lee progressives are in the same class as Dillon or even Hornady. That's like saying your Festiva is as good as a Civic. Or a Yugo is as good as a Ferrari.

What I will say, though, is that the Pro-1000 is a good press. Not a great press, but a good press. I now own four, two more thanks to this thread and my offer to buy your "Lee Junk". Yes, you have to tinker with them a bit, drill holes in the primer cover for a toothpick "gate", adjust the index, adjust the casefeeder to the correct height, adjust the dies, and install the handle. Learning curve, yes. Problem child, no. Once mine are set up, which takes about 30 minutes from out of the box to running, I have to do very little to keep them going, mostly an occasional ram oiling and blow the powder out of the primer chute and out from under the shellplate.

My only complaint about the Lee are that the shellplate rocks a bit and the last two rounds in a session (if you run the case feeder dry) will have about .010" longer COAL because the seater station isn't countered by the sizing station.

If you run a bright light over by the boolit seating station you can visually verify powder charge and level in each case before buttoning it up, which has prevented me from having squib loads. Double charges are impossible unless you lift the ram halfway, back the shellplate up one station by hand, intercept the case just dropped from the feeder, and run the ram full up again. In other words, ya gots to be really careless to foul it up.

If you make sure that the primer chute has at least 15 primers in it and that powder sifting out of the measure above doesn't get in there you won't have primer feed issues. About the only thing that hangs up a reloading session is if a primer breaks off leaving a ring stuck in the pocket. But that will hang up ANY progressive.

I'm happy with what I have, and for accuracy loading, I stick with a Classic Cast Turret or my trusty RCBS Ammomaster.

Gear

[odis]

I have to say that I agree with Lloyd just about all the time when he posts on something I'm knowledgable about. I have reloaded well into 6 figures in 5 different pistol calibers on my square deal. But I will disagree here in that I think that someone buying his first should buy a 550 just because it more versatile for the future. I know I am going to buy one in the future because soon (I hope soon) my wife and I will be moving out of the little town we live in and move back out into the country and I will be shooting rifles again and the use of a progressive will be needed. I will also buy another square deal, they are that good and the dies I have found to be superb, my sizing dies size all brass down so that the neck tension appears to shrink wrap the slugs. My use of the lifetime guarantee has been minimal and only once because the press failed, once because a set of dies were under neath a leaky pipe and they replaced them no charge to me and I told them what caused it but they didn't care. I don't know what kind of company Hornaday is and will probably never find out because I will always do my buisiness with Dillon.

[UNIQUEDOT]

If you finish before me ill give you the 550.

You want my honest opinion on this? Well here it is! I am almost (notice i said almost) positive i would be leaving with your 550. Heck i can load 100 rounds in just the time it takes you to fill your primer tube. I don't have a single issue with loading 2000 rounds on a load master, so let's see it takes ten seconds to fill all four case feeder tubes, and 30 seconds to fill the primer tray... yes i could use a 550!

By the way i am not a dillon basher. When people ask me who makes the best progressives, i always tell them that everyone that uses them usually agree that it's dillon. If i could have overcame the cost of caliber change overs on the dillons that is what i would be using! But to say the Lee machines don't work is just wrong. I don't have any problems with them and they are extremely simple presses!

The lee presses are so simple that a fellow can trouble shoot and fix any thing that goes wrong in a matter of five minutes or less. After twenty thousand rounds you might need to replace a ninety cent part. I can live with those numbers.

[odis]

Although I'm firmly in the Dillon camp in this discussion, it has nothing to do with any experiance with Lee products. I have only used Dillon and they have been so exlemplary with me that I am not curious about anything else.

[Lloyd Smale]

all i can say is bring it up here ;) Ive got one pro 1000 at the bottom of my pond and its probably lonely. As to primer tube filling i have a frankfort arsonal primer tube filler that fills a tube in less then 30 seconds. I also have the option of filling 20 or more tubes and having them ready to go. I have well over a 100 tubes and keep them filled in the primers i use the most. If you can HONESTLY say you are a 100 percent certain your loadmaster will load 2000 rounds without a stopage of any kind and without even one round with an upside down primer every time you have a one in a million loadmaster and id be honered to allow you to walk off with my 550. Thats one of the reason i still use 550s. Sure there a bit slow but even loading on 650s and lnls a guy has an occasional stopage. When i fire up the 550 i KNOW that there will be not a minute of frustration. You say yours goes 2000 rounds without any trouble? I must have gotten bad one because the one i had rarely did a 100 without some kind of a stopage. Mostly primer related and granted minor but still enough of an irritation that it took the fun out of loading. to be honest i had better luck with the pro1000 thats at the bottom of the pond then i did with the loadmaster. My buddy still laughs at the day he was over when i pulled my second pro1000 off the bench. It was the day my first 550 showed up. he knew i hated that press and offered to buy it from me for 50 bucks. I told him he was to good of a friend to do that to and that the frustrtaion of loading on that press could possibly cause him to beat up his wife and i couldnt be resposible for that so we marched out to the pond and burried it at sea! The first pro1000 and my loadmaster went to some poor soul on here and every weekend at church i pray to God for forgiveness for doing that to him;) I know i come off as a lee basher on here but im really not. I think they make some great products i wouldnt be without. I love there dies and use them more then about any other brand and there primer tool is something i couldnt be without. I also like the little zip trims. there sure convenient when you only have a box or two of brass to trim. I think there turnent press is a good bang for the buck and the big single stage press they recently introduced is a decent press and a bargin for what they cost. But there progressive presses, there cheaper single stage press, there powder measures and scales wont ever sit in my loading room again. Sure they work and for someone that considers this just a casual hobby they will probably get you by. but then if a guy is buying a handgun for self defense a high point will probably get you by but my guns and my loading gear are the center of my life and i have no use for second rate ****. By the way if you do come up and take me up on this bet feel free to take your loadmaster home with you even if you loose because i sure dont want it.

You want my honest opinion on this? Well here it is! I am almost (notice i said almost) positive i would be leaving with your 550. Heck i can load 100 rounds in just the time it takes you to fill your primer tube. I don't have a single issue with loading 2000 rounds on a load master, so let's see it takes ten seconds to fill all four case feeder tubes, and 30 seconds to fill the primer tray... yes i could use a 550!

By the way i am not a dillon basher. When people ask me who makes the best progressives, i always tell them that everyone that uses them usually agree that it's dillon. If i could have overcame the cost of caliber change overs on the dillons that is what i would be using! But to say the Lee machines don't work is just wrong. I don't have any problems with them and they are extremely simple presses!

The lee presses are so simple that a fellow can trouble shoot and fix any thing that goes wrong in a matter of five minutes or less. After twenty thousand rounds you might need to replace a ninety cent part. I can live with those numbers.

[Cowboy T]

Umm...folks, if you're having problems with your Pro 1000's, it's easy to deal with. I've got a video series showing how to deal with all that stuff that you're talking about, ESPECIALLY the primer feed mechanism issue. The video series lives here.

http://www.sanfranciscoliberalwithagun.com/pro1000.html

I can regularly hit close to 400/hour, sustained rate for several hours, with my .38 Special Pro 1000, on which I also load .357 Magnum. This press has well over 15,000 rounds on its clock and is still running like a top. My .45 Colt Pro 1000, I can hit over 300/hour easily, again, sustained for several hours. That press has over 5,000 rounds under its belt. And all my ammo fires great.

And I will add my voice to those saying, "if you don't want your Pro 1000, let's make a deal." I wouldn't mind another one at a good price. PM me if you're interested.

- T

[hunter64]

I picked up a Hornady LNL last week and it is a nice machine. The only criticism I have is the absolutely horrible instructions that came with it. It was almost like putting together a bbq that I bought at Home Depot years ago, chinese made and horrible translation. I just followed the 12 videos on youtube on how to set it up and prep the machine for use and away I went.

I have run 3500 .38 spl thru it so far and no major hiccups. I left the case feeder off of it so I could compare running the 650 and the LNL side by side with just hand feeding. The 650 was set up for 30-06 so I borrowed my friends caliber conversion kit and tried them out.

The LNL machine was quicker in that you didn't have to do the Dillon wiggle as I call it to insert cases. Pull the handle, lean to the right insert case, lean to the left insert bullet. The LNL was pick up case and bullet with left hand and after pulling the handle you place the case and the bullet on the same side so it saves a bit of time. With the case feeders installed there was no difference at all in speed.

Is the Dillon worth an extra 200.00 + 500 free bullets over the hornady, maybe to some but not to me, personal preference I guess.

As far as the loadmaster goes as long as you do the mods that shadowdog500 on youtube suggests it is almost like a different machine. No missed primers and no back indexing that throws off the primer seating and feeding.

And yes I am still looking for any of the so called pieces of **** loadmasters that people want to throw away, actually I am looking for 2 of them.

[Firebricker]

And yes I am still looking for any of the so called pieces of **** loadmasters that people want to throw away, actually I am looking for 2 of them.

You could alway's get a snorkel and a big magnet then go swimming at Lloyd's house. LOL Sorry hunter could'nt help that one. FB

[Lloyd Smale]

dont know, the bullhead in the pond might not want to part with it ;) and id about bet a dime to a dollar that i could get you loading on one of my good presses and it would take away any thoughts of swimming for that one.

[sergeant69]

If you are thinking Dillon then look at the Hornady LnL AP as well, its at least as good as the 650 if not better and cheaper too. I love mine.

This link might be of interest:

http://www.comrace.ca/cmfiles/dillonLeeHornadyComparison.pdf

surely, you jest!! having owned 3 dillons including an RL1000, a 550 and a 650 AND a LNL, the LNL was and is a joke. and a very expensive mistake. like comparing a rolls to a kia.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Sounds like a case of Blueites to me!:bigsmyl2:[smilie=l::kidding:

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[1bluehorse]

I don't believe anyone (at least I won't) will dispute the fact that Dillon is the best reloading press in todays market. And to compare it with either of the Lee progressive presses (again my opinion) is pretty silly. Maybe a LNL, but not having used a new LNL I can't answer that. However, when factoring in the cost of each of the above, the Lee is a viable, if not the, option for many. And regardless of how many have been thrown into lakes, or shot full of holes, they will work and work well. Not everyone can justify the cost of Dillon or Hornady equipment, but can the Lee equipment. To ridicule someones choices simply because you feel your's is better or cost more is just plain rude. Not everyone can afford to drive a cadillac either or wants to for that matter, some choose to drive a Kia because maybe they figure getting there is the goal, not how. I've used both Lee progressive presses (still have a P1000) and am able to keep them running without much trouble, I don't know why others can't, or won't, and don't really care, buy what you think will fit your needs, whichever color that may be, and enjoy reloading for the great hobby it is. Your opinion may vary.

[fryboy]

+ 10 !!!!!!!

" To ridicule someones choices simply because you feel your's is better or cost more is just plain rude. "

great post amigo !

[Lloyd Smale]

the guy asked for an opinion and i gave him an honest one. One that came from actual use not from words passed down from someone else. If a guy is so sensitive to hearing someone bash what he has he probably should stay away from the internet all together. I know some guys make them work but ill be ****** if i would spend my hard earned money on one. Id rather load single stage for another year and save my change to buy a quality unit. As to dillon vs hornady i have both and have an opinion on which is best too but at least both of them a decent designs. Both have there strenghts and weakness But i would think that if a guy decided to buy a yugo to save some money hed expect to be told by a ford or chev guy that he pissed away his money. I give a brutely honest opinion not to brag on my gear but to keep someone who doesnt know better from wasting a couple hundred bucks.

[mike in co]

To ridicule someones choices simply because you feel your's is better or cost more is just plain rude. .

maybe you could show us slow people WHERE ANYONE RIDICULED ANOTHER PARTY BASED ON PRICE ?

all i have seen was based on the poor engineering/poor out put....vs quality out put/factory support and long term investment......


your line is cute and maybe true...just not in this thread.



mike in co

[1bluehorse]

maybe you could show us slow people WHERE ANYONE RIDICULED ANOTHER PARTY BASED ON PRICE ?

all i have seen was based on the poor engineering/poor out put....vs quality out put/factory support and long term investment......


your line is cute and maybe true...just not in this thread.



mike in co

Thats what you got from my reply?

[357shooter]

Wow, there's not enough time to read all the posts, so sorry if this is redundant.

If anyone wants to sell their piece of junk 1000, PM me.


Remember: that person you are ticking off is well armed. :kidding:

(serious about the PM)

[sergeant69]

as my sister used to say "ur just rude, crude, and socially unacceptable". thats me! and honest. i WISH i had known about all the malfunctions that *** LNL had in store for me when i bought it, even w/ the 1000 "free" bullets. maybe it was just mine and all the others are like swiss watches. but having read about it since then on various reloading forums i know better. and yes, i stand by my statement, based on EXPERIENCE, not hearsay. the dillon is a ROLLS, and the LNL in a KIA. and thats based on quality of the machinery, not the price. the man asked for opinions, he got em. never had a lee so am not qualified to say. and why are ur panties in a wad about "insulting" someone? no one here got insulted, they simply got an opinion about an inantimate object, not a person. we argue for hours at work about the merits of my dodge 2500 diesel v.s. a buddys ford w/its "powerjoke" engine. we're discussing the truck, not the person. same here. lighten up! lifes too short!

[KYCaster]

as my sister used to say "ur just rude, crude, and socially unacceptable". thats me! and honest. i WISH i had known about all the malfunctions that *** LNL had in store for me when i bought it, even w/ the 1000 "free" bullets. maybe it was just mine and all the others are like swiss watches. but having read about it since then on various reloading forums i know better. and yes, i stand by my statement, based on EXPERIENCE, not hearsay. the dillon is a ROLLS, and the LNL in a KIA. and thats based on quality of the machinery, not the price. the man asked for opinions, he got em. never had a lee so am not qualified to say. and why are ur panties in a wad about "insulting" someone? no one here got insulted, they simply got an opinion about an inantimate object, not a person. we argue for hours at work about the merits of my dodge 2500 diesel v.s. a buddys ford w/its "powerjoke" engine. we're discussing the truck, not the person. same here. lighten up! lifes too short!



Ummm, Sarge...wanna get rid of that *** LNL?

Jerry

[NWFLYJ]

I'm not sure why you would think someone would try to put two bullets in a case. If you fail to rotate, you would only go to the bullet station once, after adding a second powder charge. As badly as I hate to admit it, I have double charged a case on a 550. ................................................HU MAN ERROR. It is not the fault of the machine...........................................
I noticed a buddy always left the handle down/ ram in the up position on his progressive press. I didn't have to ask why. ..................................



David


I was making a point, there are posts made from time to time referreing to the 550 being "prone" to double charge. Like you said in your post it is not the machines fault. It is the the guy pulling the handle. Mark



Wow, there's not enough time to read all the posts, so sorry if this is redundant.

If anyone wants to sell their piece of junk 1000, PM me.


Remember: that person you are ticking off is well armed. :kidding:

(serious about the PM)


Same here, if someone has been having their 550 throwing double charges please don't put you firearm at risk. I would like to buy it from you before it cost's you more money! Mark

[hunter64]

as my sister used to say "ur just rude, crude, and socially unacceptable". thats me! and honest. i WISH i had known about all the malfunctions that *** LNL had in store for me when i bought it, even w/ the 1000 "free" bullets. maybe it was just mine and all the others are like swiss watches. but having read about it since then on various reloading forums i know better. and yes, i stand by my statement, based on EXPERIENCE, not hearsay. the dillon is a ROLLS, and the LNL in a KIA. and thats based on quality of the machinery, not the price. the man asked for opinions, he got em. never had a lee so am not qualified to say. and why are ur panties in a wad about "insulting" someone? no one here got insulted, they simply got an opinion about an inantimate object, not a person. we argue for hours at work about the merits of my dodge 2500 diesel v.s. a buddys ford w/its "powerjoke" engine. we're discussing the truck, not the person. same here. lighten up! lifes too short!

What were the main problems with the LNL? Since it indexes at half steps I know if you have long cases it can be a pain when you go to put a bullet in.

[sergeant69]

KYCASTER..........sorry, already did, at a big $$ loss too.
HUNTER64.....main prob was w/primer system, delivery, seating, you name it. changed out the brass and primer brand but no go. basically rebuilt the whole primer system. out of about 1000 .45acp cases it may have fully seated 25. i got to where i could retime it in my sleep once i put witness marks on the frame. final straw was when i called hornady tech help, again, and the kid said and i quote, "sorry, i can't help you, i don't reload .45" and hung up. had other problems too but the priming system was the main one. when i got the 650, i took it out of the box, set it up in like 30 minutes or so, and proceeded to load 950 rds, w/out a hiccup. was floored to say the least. never loaded over 10 w/out a stoppage on the LNL. now the only time it quits is when i run out of primers and that damned buzzer (bless its heart) goes off. my son wanted to try it. he has never loaded a rd. in his life. he loaded right at 900 .45 w/out stopping cept to refill, says wow this is easy. left w/all my single stage stuff. and a lot more. put a LNL and a 650 up side by side and the diff. in quailty is obvious. like i keep saying, rolls/kia.

[hunter64]

sergeant69: Thanks for your comments. I picked up a LNL 2 weeks ago for my cousin who is coming in to town from way up northern Canada and I thought what the heck I am going to load some ammo on it to try it out. I haven't had any problems at all with the primer feed , that might change with more use, I have over 4000 .38 spl's thru it so far. He will be coming down the second week of November so I hope to run about a few more thou thru it till he gets here.

For you Dillon 550 reloaders, can you see the powder in the case at station 2 or 3 or do you have to stand up and look forward to see if there is powder in there? I have never run a 550 and the stuff on youtube seems to show different angles and it is hard to tell. The guy says he checks the powder but you don't see him doing it so I have no idea if he has to lean way over or is it just a glance.

[sergeant69]

hopefully it WON'T change w/usage! the LNL primer feed has that dog leg wire to activate it, and a spring to return it. i went thru maybe 3 wires and 6 springs but it would always either not bring the primer forward enough, not pick up a primer from the tube, flip the primer, or more commonly the primer slide would just hang up on the primer slide slot. got tired of adjusting, bending, replacing. and i had to glue a washer under the primer punch to get it to seat a primer deep enough. i grew up on a farm and lived there for 50 years so machinery repairs are not new to me but that thing beat me. how'd you like the instructions that came w/it?

[hunter64]

The instructions reminded me of a bbq I bought years ago that was translated from chinese to english sort of. :twisted:

Primers flow just fine, I havent tried large pistol primers yet so time will tell.

Like I said in a previous post, I just watched the youtube video's for the set up.

[keyhole]

to Hunter 64...
I have a 550 and yes, you can see the powder at station 3 when loading .45 ACP (where bullet is seated) if you lean forward slightly. I load sitting down. It is a good idea to look because I never needed a squib rob until I started using the 550. I have had several "rounds" over the few years using the 550 which did not include powder.
I wish my 550 worked as smoothly as everyone else describes. I have issues with primer feeding. Primers will not seat smoothly for any extended period. I've spent hours trying to diagnose the problem. I've reloaded for 40 years so it's not like I am a beginner. The construction and build quality of the 550 is obviously quite high. It has been a bit of a disappointment as far as saving me a lot of time. just my experience, your results may vary...

[mike in co]

.

For you Dillon 550 reloaders, can you see the powder in the case at station 2 or 3 or do you have to stand up and look forward to see if there is powder in there? I have never run a 550 and the stuff on youtube seems to show different angles and it is hard to tell. The guy says he checks the powder but you don't see him doing it so I have no idea if he has to lean way over or is it just a glance.

i stand when i use my 550's. yes the powder is visible.

but remember i always use a powder load that is 50% or more of case capacity....a double will stop one from seating a bullet..and is very obvious.


mike in co

[Dale53]

keyhole;
I have two 550B's. I would have about one or two out of a hundred primers that wanted to seat upside down or sideways. I analyzed the problem and discovered the cause. When you use the pick up tubes filled with primers, the last primer is held by the pick up "fingers". When you turn the tube upside down, there is a space between the last primer and the one above it. This allows the last primer to turn in the tube and it either goes sideways or upside down.

The solution is when you finish picking up the last primer, BEFORE you turn the tube upside down (to the position you use to fill the primer tube on the press) you use the primer follower rod to gently raise the last primer so that it is against the primer above it. Maintaining this position, THEN turn the primer tube over. The weight of the primers above them will keep all primers in position. I use a pint jar to store the loaded primer tubes to keep them positioned correctly (one behind each press).

Since I started doing this, I almost NEVER have a primer out of position.

The other tip is to keep the channel clean (where the primer arm rides). I keep a clean glue brush handy to just brush it from time to time (no need to disassemble).

I hope that you can follow the above - it has made life MUCH easier on the Dillon.

I am a BIG fan of the Dillon 550B.
Dale53

[Bob.]

Aint no perfect presses or you would never see a negitive post about the perfect one .
As you can see one that works great and is the best for one guy is the same one others have problems with.
Havent had any primer problems with the LNL and havent had to mess with the timing.
Just set up another LNL a week or so ago and it worked like a champ right out of the box, no adjustments and fed primers flawlessly.
Doesnt mean they are all perfect out of the box but again neither are the Dillons, RCBS, Lee or what ever
My neighbor has Dillons "1000, 1050, 550's and he's had a few problems I'm aware of, whats really a kicker is he doesnt like the 650 and doesnt have one now?
I'm happy with the LNLs I'm sure I would be just as happy with a 650 as well but either could have problems or work great right off the bat.

Bob

[Lloyd Smale]

Bob has a point. Ive yet to find a press, even a 1050 dillon that was a 100 percent trouble free. they all have there quirks. Some more then others though. Most have a learning curve to them again some more then others. When i got my first hornady i stuggled a bit and was beginning to think it was just another red ***. With a little tweaking and some experience for the most part now all three of the ones i have a trouble free. One of them seems to take alot more efford to seat primers then the other two but if you know it its no big deal. Is it as trouble free as a 650? probably not but its a far cry from a lee and cheaper then the 650. Just like the 650 probably isnt as reliable as a 1050 but for half the money its a pretty good press. Theres no doubt that in loading gear just like about anything else you get what you pay for. If my buget was unlimited id have a 1050 set up in every pistol caliber i use and one in 223 and 308 too. But that isnt happening in this lifetime. I do believe at least for me though that if i couldnt afford at least a lnl for a progressive press id just load on a single stage or a turrent press. The lees and even the rcbs progressives are just to frustrating for me.

[hunter64]

Has anyone tried using a RCBS Lockout die in station 3 on a 550 machine?

I am paranoid about missing a case with out powder or worse double charging and I always use the lockout die on my other reloaders.

I know you guys say that you can see the powder in the case by sitting up in the chair or using a small mirror on the machine but just kind of wondering out loud here.

If the lockout die was in in station 3 then you would have to seat and crimp in station 4. Then seat the bullet before advancing to station 4 (from 3) or seat the bullet with your right hand at station 4.

[keyhole]

To Dale53

Thanks for the tips about priming on a 550. I used both last night when using the 550B. I've kept a large artists brush nearby to sweep out debris.
I am going to have to call Dillon customer service. I spent an hour loading 100 rds of .45 ACP last night. Experienced the same series of issues with priming that I have had, more or less, since buying the machine.

[mike in co]

To Dale53

Thanks for the tips about priming on a 550. I used both last night when using the 550B. I've kept a large artists brush nearby to sweep out debris.
I am going to have to call Dillon customer service. I spent an hour loading 100 rds of .45 ACP last night. Experienced the same series of issues with priming that I have had, more or less, since buying the machine.

ok i have a very simple question ......

why haven't you talked to dillon ??

if you have an issue fix it or get with them and fix it.....seems kinda silly to talk about an issue on these boards if one has not asked the maker for help....

mike in co

[dudel]

For you Dillon 550 reloaders, can you see the powder in the case at station 2 or 3 or do you have to stand up and look forward to see if there is powder in there? I have never run a 550 and the stuff on youtube seems to show different angles and it is hard to tell. The guy says he checks the powder but you don't see him doing it so I have no idea if he has to lean way over or is it just a glance.

I stand, so iI can see the powder. I also rigged up a small light to light up the area.
http://picasaweb.google.com/donudel/ReloadingTricks#5471932253391732194

Don

[UNIQUEDOT]

ok i have a very simple question ......

why haven't you talked to dillon ??

if you have an issue fix it or get with them and fix it.....seems kinda silly to talk about an issue on these boards if one has not asked the maker for help....

mike in co

Why is it silly to talk about the issues on this forum if it's blue, but if it's red...

"all i have seen was based on the poor engineering/poor out put....vs quality out put/factory support and long term investment......"

[mike in co]

Why is it silly to talk about the issues on this forum if it's blue, but if it's red...

"all i have seen was based on the poor engineering/poor out put....vs quality out put/factory support and long term investment......"

duh....

lets see dillon has great customer support for thier presses...they deal with them all the time...i would say they have more experience that some, maybe all the people here.....
since it cost nothing ..it comes with ownership...why ask us the amatures when the pros are available......

the difference is red lee suff is not well supported technically, not as well enginerred and thus you have guys publishing stuff on how to make thier stuff work....


you have it right its as clear as night and day....


mike in co

[UNIQUEDOT]

duh....

lets see dillon has great customer support for thier presses...they deal with them all the time...i would say they have more experience that some, maybe all the people here.....
since it cost nothing ..it comes with ownership...why ask us the amatures when the pros are available......

the difference is red lee suff is not well supported technically, not as well enginerred and thus you have guys publishing stuff on how to make thier stuff work....


you have it right its as clear as night and day....


mike in co

Lee has great customer support as well, of course you don't pay up front for a lifetime warranty either. How many times do Lee bashers ask people to contact lee when they ask a question on these forums? Never because they would rather bash! As far as the engineering goes... I would think Dillon is best in that department but when someone does get ahold of a lemon why try to hush them up because they make blue look bad? Hornady is doing a pretty good job of making the blue look like a lot less for the money as it is. BTW my next press will likely be a 550b.

[mike in co]

Lee has great customer support as well, of course you don't pay up front for a lifetime warranty either. How many times do Lee bashers ask people to contact lee when they ask a question on these forums? Never because they would rather bash! As far as the engineering goes... I would think Dillon is best in that department but when someone does get ahold of a lemon why try to hush them up because they make blue look bad? Hornady is doing a pretty good job of making the blue look like a lot less for the money as it is. BTW my next press will likely be a 550b.

i would say OUR views of lee, its quality and support are influenced by the EXTREMELY POOR SERVICE, POOR QUALITY AND LACK OF SUPPORT we have recieved on lee group buy moulds....

i own three lee presses...one is thier original 3 hole turret....

but i USE two dillon 550b's.......

[UNIQUEDOT]

i USE two dillon 550b's.......

Is primer depth adjustable on the 550 or is dependent entirely on feel?

[Alan in WI]

Make me an offer I can't refuse and I will take your Loadmaster if it is in good condition.
Send me a PM
Alan in WI

[geargnasher]

:popcorn:

Gear

[runfiverun]

it's adjustable.
theres a set screw on the side of the primer arm carrier.
you can also seat by feel on a dillon.
my first 550 gave me a few problems with the primer feeder, turns out i had the little washer/spacer under the feeder, and not on the bottom acting as a washer for the cap screws.
biggest problem i have ever had with a dillon except dirt where it didn't belong.
give em a call the worst that could happen is you have to send it to them for repair.

[mike in co]

Is primer depth adjustable on the 550 or is dependent entirely on feel?

why....
primers should be seated till bottomed, and then a small crush in place...the dillon does that.

[1bluehorse]

:coffeecom.......don't stop now, it just gets better and better....gear, ya wanta pass some of that popcorn...

[fryboy]

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popc orn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::groner:

it boils down to what i use not what i prefer or what i think everyone should have , in the end every press can and will make loaded rounds depending upon the operator their desire to do so as well as their aptitude ( the last is most telling ....) , there is no doubt that a hiway is smoother than a dirt road but a hiway wont always take ya where u want to go ( at least around here ) yet much akin to this thread both are roads but no comparison , those who wish to compare the two or actually try to are as i stated before "trying to compare apples to oranges" no matter which press u blow hard about ur still blowing ( also very telling )

[UNIQUEDOT]

why....
primers should be seated till bottomed, and then a small crush in place...the dillon does that.

That is one of the things i like about the loadmaster. I can adjust the seating depth and never have to feel the primers being seated and set. My interest in the 550b is for rifle cartridges. Let me ask an honest opinion here... Is the 550b capable of producing top grade rifle ammo? only asking about hunting grade accuracy. I honestly can't tell the difference between hunting rifle ammo whether it's loaded on my turret, or loadmaster. I rarely load anything on my ss anymore because it's just too slow! I am thinking that a 550b would be a fast alternative to my cc turret for rifle ammo...or am i just looking for another excuse to buy something i really don't need! :)

[mike in co]

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popc orn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::groner:

it boils down to what i use not what i prefer or what i think everyone should have , in the end every press can and will make loaded rounds depending upon the operator their desire to do so as well as their aptitude ( the last is most telling ....) , there is no doubt that a hiway is smoother than a dirt road but a hiway wont always take ya where u want to go ( at least around here ) yet much akin to this thread both are roads but no comparison , those who wish to compare the two or actually try to are as i stated before "trying to compare apples to oranges" no matter which press u blow hard about ur still blowing ( also very telling )

me thinks you are wrong....

we have people here that have used the presses being discused and compared them..and gave an answer...........

go read what lloyd has posted....

side by side comaprisons.....owned all three or four.......

oh and thru the lee in the pond..............

mike in co

[mike in co]

That is one of the things i like about the loadmaster. I can adjust the seating depth and never have to feel the primers being seated and set. My interest in the 550b is for rifle cartridges. Let me ask an honest opinion here... Is the 550b capable of producing top grade rifle ammo? only asking about hunting grade accuracy. I honestly can't tell the difference between hunting rifle ammo whether it's loaded on my turret, or loadmaster. I rarely load anything on my ss anymore because it's just too slow! I am thinking that a 550b would be a fast alternative to my cc turret for rifle ammo...or am i just looking for another excuse to buy something i really don't need! :)

i load match ammo on my 550......mil rifle match cmp/dcm match...and ocassionally my BENCHREST ammo on my dillons.....

i'm still wondering about your staement on adjusting seating depth....with no feel....

how do you know you did not run into a deap pocket and not seat the prime with crush..and then the firing pin has to do that for you.

or
that you over crush one into a shallow pocket ??

but then i don't load match ammo on a lee....

mike in co

[Dale53]

I shot in Big Bore competition and Soldier of Fortune three gun matches over the years and loaded my centerfire rifle ammunition on my Dillon. Our local club ran eight big bore matches a year (one a month for eight months). We shot the reduced range National Match Course. The last year I competed, I averaged 490x500 with a high of 495x500 (the record still stands). All of this was loaded on my Dillon 550B.

I competed in Bench Rest matches in a limited way. I did NOT load that ammo on my Dillon but used custom tailored hand dies.

For other than the highest form of Bench Rest Competition, I would be confident in my Dillons performance. You must know, however, that whatever press you use, whether single stage or progressive, Dillon or others, the press must be set up properly to get the highest performance level that is available.

Dale53

[UNIQUEDOT]

i load match ammo on my 550......mil rifle match cmp/dcm match...and ocassionally my BENCHREST ammo on my dillons.....

i'm still wondering about your staement on adjusting seating depth....with no feel....

how do you know you did not run into a deap pocket and not seat the prime with crush..and then the firing pin has to do that for you.

or
that you over crush one into a shallow pocket ??

but then i don't load match ammo on a lee....

mike in co



I can't answer your question about primer seating depth because as you insinuate i simply don't know. Every press i have used turret, cc, pro 1000 all required feeling the primers, and generally were no problems after getting the feel of each, but the system on the load master appealed very much to me and seems to be working out well. I want to dedicate it to handgun only though and that is where my desire for the 550b for rifle comes in. I do clean all my primer pockets for all rifle ammo but i don't measure depth or even segregate cases... this is only plinking and hunting ammo after all.

By the way the instructions for the LM claims that there is sufficient spring in the system to allow for shallow/deep pockets.

[mike in co]

By the way the instructions for the LM claims that there is sufficient spring in the system to allow for shallow/deep pockets.

this statement says it all........how can you adjust to what you "want' if in fact the machine has "spring" in the setup.....

this is what has me confused about your statements.......



me thinks we should just drop it.....


mike in co

[Lloyd Smale]

I dont know many true bench rest shooters that would load on a 550. But then i dont know many that would even do it with a rockchucker or orange crusher.
That is one of the things i like about the loadmaster. I can adjust the seating depth and never have to feel the primers being seated and set. My interest in the 550b is for rifle cartridges. Let me ask an honest opinion here... Is the 550b capable of producing top grade rifle ammo? only asking about hunting grade accuracy. I honestly can't tell the difference between hunting rifle ammo whether it's loaded on my turret, or loadmaster. I rarely load anything on my ss anymore because it's just too slow! I am thinking that a 550b would be a fast alternative to my cc turret for rifle ammo...or am i just looking for another excuse to buy something i really don't need! :)

[mike in co]

I dont know many true bench rest shooters that would load on a 550. But then i dont know many that would even do it with a rockchucker or orange crusher.

there are a lot of single stage press used in br loading, tho most still use hand dies and arbor presses. one guy uses three in a row.
when i load my br ammo on my dillon i use a single opening in the shell holder...each cutout is numbered by me, and i just use the same number, and load one at a time. i load both of my 308's this way. one is a hunter class 308 win and one is a heavy gun 308 win br. my 223br is loaded the same way......

its one of the nice things about the 550b's...the multiple ways one can use them.

mike in co

[mike in co]

That is one of the things i like about the loadmaster. I can adjust the seating depth and never have to feel the primers being seated and set. My interest in the 550b is for rifle cartridges. Let me ask an honest opinion here... Is the 550b capable of producing top grade rifle ammo? only asking about hunting grade accuracy. I honestly can't tell the difference between hunting rifle ammo whether it's loaded on my turret, or loadmaster. I rarely load anything on my ss anymore because it's just too slow! I am thinking that a 550b would be a fast alternative to my cc turret for rifle ammo...or am i just looking for another excuse to buy something i really don't need! :)

do you think production match ammo/premium commercial hunting ammo is done on single stage presses ??

go do an online search of dillon 550b......
david tubb loads on a dillin iirc...and he is 7-8-9-10 time national rifle champ ....
there is mods you can do to improve the press for making more consistant ammo...
go look around.(tool heads with no play up or down is one)

mike

[45nut]

I picked up a conversion for the AT-500 and use it for making small runs... it turns the press into a single stage "kinda",, and its a universal shellholder.

[UNIQUEDOT]

this statement says it all........how can you adjust to what you "want' if in fact the machine has "spring" in the setup.....

this is what has me confused about your statements.......



me thinks we should just drop it.....


mike in co

All i'm saying is after it's adjusted i don't have to worry about feeling the primers being seated. They all seem uniform and they all go bang. I have had to make small adjustments twice when swapping from sp to lr or was it sr to lp? either way i like it and like lee says it's pretty much fool proof simply because it's so simple.

[UNIQUEDOT]

do you think production match ammo/premium commercial hunting ammo is done on single stage presses ??
mike

No, but they are not done on thousand dollar hobby machines either. I suppose any bench mounted hand operated press could likely better that ammo.

[mike in co]

No, but they are not done on thousand dollar hobby machines either. I suppose any bench mounted hand operated press could likely better that ammo.

not "any"....

its more about the operator/process and compoments....

and the gun it is shot in......

[Cowboy T]

not "any"....

its more about the operator/process and compoments....

and the gun it is shot in......

I'll agree with that somewhat. Proper reloading technique is always paramount, regardless of the equipment you choose. The gun it is shot in matters more if you're a precision shooter, true, but if your shooting technique sucks, that $5,000+ rifle won't mean a thing. I'd rather have a good $120 Mosin-Nagant and good shooting technique and thus be able to actually harvest some dinner. And with the extra money left over, I can buy a whole lot of ammo.

The same thing applies to reloading presses. All of the big manufacturers make pretty good presses. If you know what you're doing with reloading, it doesn't matter as much what tool you use as it does your technique. Dillons are good progressive machines, no doubt. But a dialed-in Load-Master or Pro 1000 will make ammo every bit as good as any other press. And with the extra money saved over, I can buy a whole lot of reloading components.

Basically, get whichever machine you like best and works best for your situation, no matter what brand/color it is. That's the really right answer. For me, that's Pro 1000's and a Classic Turret. For a friend of mine, that's an RL550B. Another buddy loves his LnL AP, and yet another swears by his RockChucker. And we all make very good ammo.

[hunter64]

Well my cousin finally came and got the hornady lnl machine last night, hate to see such a fine machine go but hey it was his money and machine and I took it for a drive so to speak. I loaded just over 5000 .38 spl ammo and had no major problems. I broke one retainer spring which I picked up at my local gun shop and that is about it, ran very smoothly.

Well I have now run a lee 1000 and loadmaster along with a Dillon 650 and a Hornady LNL and so far the 650 and LNL are about tied with an edge going to the LNL if you don't have a case feeder.

I think I am going to drink some more blue cool-aid and get in on the group buy from parrott1969, prices are good and if I hate the 550 then I can always recover my loses. I hate the fact that you can't check powder level in the case other than leaning over to see it but my fears might be unfounded because I have never run one.

I do a lot of cowboy action shooting and use 3.7 gn of unique with .38 spl and that regulates perfectly in my two single actions. It is a little less than 1/2 the case full which I really don't like but it is an accurate load and so I stick with it.

We will see how it goes.

[mike in co]

I hate the fact that you can't check powder level in the case other than leaning over to see it but my fears might be unfounded because I have never run one.

We will see how it goes.

yes wait till its up and running....
i dont "lean over" to check powder....just look at the case either when you put the bullet on top or as you rotate from the second(powder drop) position....

mike in co

[angus6]

Well I have now run a lee 1000 and loadmaster along with a Dillon 650 and a Hornady LNL and so far the 650 and LNL are about tied with an edge going to the LNL if you don't have a case feeder.


hunter64 if you had case feeders on both the 650 and LnL which way would you go ? tossing out the conversion costs

[hunter64]

The only reason I give a slight node to the LNL over the Dillon with out case feeders is that the LNL you insert case and bullet on the same side of the machine. The 650 it is on opposite sides.

With both machines set up with case feeders I really couldn't say one is better than the other. There was supposed to be lots of problems with the primer setup on the LNL and yet I had nothing to report in over 5000 cases on it. The 650 was like wise nothing out of the ordinary that I noticed. Easier to remove and replace cases in the LNL, but honesty how hard is it to remove a pin and then take out the case and put the pin back.

I guess I would call it a tie from my experience with both machines, deal breaker is conversion costs.

[angus6]

I guess I would call it a tie from my experience with both machines, deal breaker is conversion costs.

Great , Thanks . That was what I'd come up with from sorting through the chaff in different threads

[Lloyd Smale]

The main advantage a 650 has over a lnl with both using case feeders is the dillon was designed from the get go for use with a case feeder and like was said earlier it is a bit more awkward then a lnl without it. With it though theres just less things that can get loose or get out of ajustment. Ive found the dillon case feeder at least on a 650 or 1050 a more reliable setup then the hornadys and in my opinion that is the biggest advantage a 650 has over the hornady. Is it worth the extra money? thats a call youll have to make yourself. The hornady set works too but takes more fiddling especially when swapping from something like a 44 mag to a 44 special and it seems like im allways fiddling with it to keep it running a 100 percent. I dont remember a 650 case feeder ever balking.

[hunter64]

I thought about my comments last night and really the only thing that bugged me with the lnl was the fact that if you are doing long rifle say 30-06 you have to watch bullet placement on the case.

The LNL progresses at 1/2 step instead of the normal full step going into each station so with a long rifle case you can put the bullet on the case as normal but you have to make sure it is seated well so it will not fall out. With the 650 the case is going straight up into the die so you just place the bullet and go.

I watched a video on you-tube and it showed a guy actually holding the bullet under the die and slowly raising the case to meet it just before it goes into the die. The first thing I said to myself was "that probably isn't the ideal way to get an accurate powder measure into the case behind it". Not sure if it was or wasn't but when I did 30-06 on the LNL I seated the bullet straight and with conviction in the case.

Most people are not going to do a lot of progressive large rifle rounds and honestly the only rifle round I would do on a constant basis would be .223 .

[Lloyd Smale]

about the only bottle necked round other then .223 i load progressively is the 308 not because its not possible to get accuracy its just that i dont shoot enough of anything else to justify setting the press and case feeder up

[UNIQUEDOT]

Hunter64, I saw a youtube video and the guy had a case feeder and bullet feeder attached to the 550b. I thought at first it seemed like a lot of money to put into a four station manual indexed press, but after seeing his technique explained, it seems about as fast as an auto press, and there are no auto features to fail or give you problems. If you can get by with that many stations, it would be an option that could be upgraded with the feeders whenever you wanted. Caliber conversions are less expensive for the 550b too.

[Lloyd Smale]

only thing wrong with that theroy is the case feeder for the 550 blocks you from using the press without using the case feeder so you cant just disable it and manualy feed cases like you can with a lnl. Its aslo a finiky thing to set up. It took me quite a while to get my buddys going and i sure wouldnt want to pull it off and on. It kind of takes the versitility out of the equation for a 550. now a case feeder on a square deal would sure be slick. With a case feeder that press would load faster then a 1050. Probaly why they dont offer one for it.

[odis]

only thing wrong with that theroy is the case feeder for the 550 blocks you from using the press without using the case feeder so you cant just disable it and manualy feed cases like you can with a lnl. Its aslo a finiky thing to set up. It took me quite a while to get my buddys going and i sure wouldnt want to pull it off and on. It kind of takes the versitility out of the equation for a 550. now a case feeder on a square deal would sure be slick. With a case feeder that press would load faster then a 1050. Probaly why they dont offer one for it.I have only used my Square Deal and I have always wondered why Dillon makes the claim that the 550 is faster.

[Lloyd Smale]

a 550 isnt even close to as fast as a square deal. Im sure the reason they advertise it like that is there more expensive and im sure they feel that if they said the sd was faster they would loose a few 550 sales.
I have only used my Square Deal and I have always wondered why Dillon makes the claim that the 550 is faster.

[7of7]

a 550 isnt even close to as fast as a square deal. Im sure the reason they advertise it like that is there more expensive and im sure they feel that if they said the sd was faster they would loose a few 550 sales.

I thought with the SD, you had to use the proprietary die sets for it.. and if you load multiple calibers, isn't it a PITA to change it to the next caliber? (I don't know, got the 550B) I do like the idea of the self indexing.. sure wish I had it on the 550...

[Lloyd Smale]

yes they do use there own propreietary dies but swapping them out isnt the big deal people make it out to me. Four allen screws hold the die plate. Just keep another die plate set up in the caliber you want and swap it out along with the shell plate and your done. Maybe 5 more minutes to do then with a 550 at the most.

[odis]

The only problem with the dies are that you can't get cheaper ones, changing them is no problem. I have a square deal "tool head" for each set, what makes the whole process easier is two seperate priming systems with each one dedicated to either large or small primers.

[mini14]

I'm putting out 80 per hour of .223 on the lee 1000

120 of .45acp

160 of 9mm

[357shooter]

Mini14; welcome to Cast Boolits. It's usually a friendly place with good advice, evidently not all the time though.

The Lee Pro 1000 is pretty nice operating at with the throughput you are getting. Keeps it all in tune and moving well.

The important thing is making some high quality and excellent shooting handloads. I've been using Lee for a few years and they served me well. A Square Deal will be coming this week so I can see if it's all it's cracked up to be. ttyl.

[odis]

Mini14; welcome to Cast Boolits. It's usually a friendly place with good advice, evidently not all the time though.

The Lee Pro 1000 is pretty nice operating at with the throughput you are getting. Keeps it all in tune and moving well.

The important thing is making some high quality and excellent shooting handloads. I've been using Lee for a few years and the servered met well. A Square Deal will be coming this week so I can see if it's all it's cracked up to be. ttyl.I think you will like the Square Deal, I have zero experiance with the Lee, I have never used one so I can't make a comparison. My experience with Dillon has been most satisfying and because of that if I ever buy another progressive it will be one of theirs. Based on this thread a lot of people own and like Lees.

[357shooter]

I think you will like the Square Deal, I have zero experiance with the Lee, I have never used one so I can't make a comparison. My experience with Dillon has been most satisfying and because of that if I ever buy another progressive it will be one of theirs. Based on this thread a lot of people own and like Lees.

Thanks, I'm ooking foward to trying it out, just sold my 1000 and can't load until the SDB shows up. Being between presses is not good!

[mike in co]

I'm putting out 80 per hour of .223 on the lee 1000

120 of .45acp

160 of 9mm

for the record, the comment was about the machine, not the operator....


welcome to our humble forums

where r u stationed ?

mike in co

[thehouseproduct]

The Lee press in question is listed in teh swappin and selling. I bought the Hornady FWIW.

[Moonie]

80 223's in an hour? That's 1.2 a minute. I never loaded 223 on my pro1000 but that seems VERY slow to me, I can do better than that on a lee turret.

I have the Loadmaster and I can do at least 300 223's in an hour, taking my time. I cranked out 100 45's Monday night in about 15 min.

[mini14]

80 223's in an hour? That's 1.2 a minute. I never loaded 223 on my pro1000 but that seems VERY slow to me, I can do better than that on a lee turret.

I have the Loadmaster and I can do at least 300 223's in an hour, taking my time. I cranked out 100 45's Monday night in about 15 min.

so you never did it but it seems slow to you...OOOOKKKKK

i don't know why i bother posting anything anymore

[mini14]

for the record, the comment was about the machine, not the operator....


welcome to our humble forums

where r u stationed ?

mike in co

i was stationed in AZ but i got a cushy desk job now at another agency

[357shooter]

mini14, so you aren't in AZ anymore?

[mini14]

nope:D

[Cowboy T]

The really right answer is this:

Buy whatever you prefer. If you like Dillons, buy those. If you like Lees, buy those. If you like Hornady, RCBS, or whatever...buy that.

I own two Lee Pro 1000's and have used a Dillon RL550B. Both are fine presses. I happen to prefer the Pro 1000's, so that's what I bought.

[Recluse]

80 223's in an hour? That's 1.2 a minute. I never loaded 223 on my pro1000 but that seems VERY slow to me, I can do better than that on a lee turret.

I have the Loadmaster and I can do at least 300 223's in an hour, taking my time. I cranked out 100 45's Monday night in about 15 min.

A. He didn't say he was looking to establish or break any sort of a record. He said he could load X amount of rounds/calibers per hour and apparently do so at his own comfort rate.

B. In forty years of reloading, I've seen a lot of folks get progressives for the sheer purpose of seeing how many they can crank out and how fast. People choose progressives for their own reasons, and what's more, they choose the brands they do for their own reasons.

No right answer, no wrong answer. Only what works for YOU, the guy pulling the handle.

:coffee:

[mike in co]

The really right answer is this:

Buy whatever you prefer. If you like Dillons, buy those. If you like Lees, buy those. If you like Hornady, RCBS, or whatever...buy that.

I own two Lee Pro 1000's and have used a Dillon RL550B. Both are fine presses. I happen to prefer the Pro 1000's, so that's what I bought.

glad to see some has decided they have the only really right answer.......


lol

[hunter64]

I was in on the deal that parrott1969 had offered and received a 550 with 3 conversion kits and some extra primer tubes, a spare parts kit and some extra tool heads.

I took my laptop out to the garage and followed a guys installation method and setup on youtube and also followed along with the printed manual that it came with.

Everything went smoothly until I loaded up the primer tube the first time with primers and one primer got stuck in the primer magazine tube. [smilie=b:

After I removed the primers and looked in the tube I could see one primer was slightly wedged. So I sprayed some wd-40 into the tube and let it sit for an hour and then gently pushed it out. I cleaned out the tube from the wd-40 and I was off to the races. When I got the primer out it definitely was oblong and it was a new carton of primers that it came from. Don't ask me how that happened.

Took me about 10 minutes to get into a rhythm and once I got going I made short work of 300 rounds.

With my cowboy action .38 spl powder puff loads I found it very hard to see into the case to make sure there was powder in there. I was kind of worried about that before I ordered the 550 so I will have to rig up some kind of light and mirrors to see into the case (I know I have seen a few on the site). I am sure with a shorter type case like a .45acp there is no problem.

Also thought of installing my RCBS powder checker in station 3 and size and crimp in station 4 but that is for another day.

Very easy machine to run and if something goofs up it is easily fixed and continue on. Very happy so far.