Help with my REAL

[flyingstick]

I've read all the post i can find on the REAL bullets but still can't get it to shoot. I'm trying it in my CVA Optima, It has a 1:28 twist. I tried it lubed and not lubed and wads under the bullet. I started with 50 gr of ffg and went up to 110 ffg, but nothing, I mean all over the place. I've pushed one all the way through the barrell and the rifling is cutting into the bullet so I'm confused. The rifle will shoot sabots great but I'd like to shoot my own cast. Is 1:28 too fast for the 320 gr. REAL? or was this rifle just designed for the sabots?[smilie=b:

[docone31]

You might try an overpowder wad, and it might be too heavy for the twist.
In my 1/48, it is spot on accurate.

[Black Wolf]

I shoot the 250 gr REAL in my Optima with great groups at 50 yards using 50-60 gr of 777 with it lubed with bore butter, no filler or wad. Dropped my first buck with a BP rifle last year with that load at about 30 yds.

BW

[idahoron]

I got only 3 to 4 inch groups at 100 yards with them. I was not REAL impressed. I use over powder wads and they did ok at best. Some rifles just don't like them. Ron

[roverboy]

I'd definately use lube on them. Bore Butter is good and even lard. Some people use Crisco. What load are you using?

[MT Gianni]

I got OK groups in TC Hawken 1 in 32" twist. I lubed with Crisco and shot it over 70 gr Pyrodex RS in the early 80's. I haven't used that combo in a long time but it grouped OK AIRC.

[flyingstick]

Thanks folks. Roverboy, I tried everything from 50 - 110 gr of ffg. I tried them lubed and unlubed, and I tried them with overpowder wads. I'm afraid Idahoron may be right, my rifle may just not like them. I may try some of my lee .452 -230 in some sabots and see how they do. I sure did like the idea of sending a 320 gr. bullet down range though.

[roverboy]

Thanks folks. Roverboy, I tried everything from 50 - 110 gr of ffg. I tried them lubed and unlubed, and I tried them with overpowder wads. I'm afraid Idahoron may be right, my rifle may just not like them. I may try some of my lee .452 -230 in some sabots and see how they do. I sure did like the idea of sending a 320 gr. bullet down range though.

I like the heavy bullets too. I shoot a Maxi-Hunter that I bought off of a guy that casts them out of pure lead. They're 350 gr. Some rifles are picky about what they shoot. My uncle had a Investarms .54 Hawken that had cut rifling and a slow twist. He couldn't get it to shoot PRB's at all. He tried different patch thickness and tried a lot of different powder charges and it wouldn't shoot. He finally tried Hornady 425 gr. Great Plains and they shot 3" groups at 100 yards. He was happy with that. Some rifles are wierd.

[flyingstick]

Yes they are, I don't know why I didn't check it before but I put a mic on the mold and its about
.014 out of round. I'm going to send it back.

[idahoron]

Here are my groups with the REAL's. The 50 yard groups are all good they just open up way too much at 100 yards. Ron

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/2250325_gr_lee_REAL_50_yard_1st_group_2.jpg
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/2250325_gr_lee_REAL_50_yard_2.jpg


http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/22505-25-07_Lee_real_3_5.jpg
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/22505-25-07_Lee_real_2_5.jpg
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/22505-25-07_Lee_real_1_5.jpg

[Nobade]

Does that gun have rifling all the way to the muzzle? If not, that might explain things.

[idahoron]

Those were from a Green Mountain Stainless Steel barrel with a 1-28 twist. Yes the rifling goes all the way to the end of the muzzle. Ron

[roverboy]

I don't consider 3+" groups all that bad for 100 yards. I mean 100 yds. is about max range for most muzzleloaders. Is that with iron sights? If so that is actually good.

[flyingstick]

My CVA doesn't have rifling to the end, what would that do?

[mooman76]

Is you CVA old and the muxxle worn or does it have a false muzzle? It just degardes the accuracy. If your's still shoots good then all is well. It gets worn from the ramrod after time. MLs have softer steel than regular guns. You can cut off the end of the barrel and have it recrowned to help. I'll go with Roverboy. 3" isn't all that bad especially for a gun that is not designed for conicals with that tight a twist. Pleny good enough for minute of deer.

[flyingstick]

That was Idahoron that got 3", I got 3 feet :) I do have the false muzzle but My REALs are very much out of round. I'll be getting another mold.
Thanks again,
Don

[roverboy]

Ok. 3 feet is not so good. Unless they got grenades on'em that wouldn't work to good. Yeah you need another mold.

[Linstrum]

Hi, flyingstick, three feet is just awful, for sure! I have had a cartridge gun and a cap and ball .44 revolver that were just as bad, so what you are getting is totally believable.

I have a .54 cal Lee REAL mould and it does around 3" at 100 yards in a 1 turn in 48" barrel.

Lee moulds are lathe cut and can't be out of round in the cavity, but they can still cast out of round from another problem. Before sending that mould back because it casts out of round I'd first check to see that the blocks close all the way. The reason why I say that is because every now and then I have problems with moulds not closing up all the way, and when a mould is just shy of closing by something like 0.014” it is darned hard to see if you aren't looking for it, especially when the sprue cutter covers up most of the parting line between the two mould halves. The usual culprit is a tiny dot of lead stuck on one block face, and believe me, that problem is extremely difficult to see because the little dot of lead is usually no bigger than the period at the end of this sentence. Another cause is the alignment rods and grooves having an equally tiny piece of lead stuck between them, or they just plain fit together tight and you have to tap gently on the sprue cutter plate to close things up all the way. Sometimes the alignment pins and grooves need lubricating with a special mould lube. If you lube a mould, make darned sure you don't get any of the lubricant in a cavity because that opens up a whole new world of problems with fill-out. Usually a mould that doesn't close up tight will have wings or fins on the sides of the boolit, BUT NOT ALWAYS. Especially when it is open just a few thousands of an inch, but I've had moulds that didn't make fins when open as much as 0.015". So check your mould to make sure it closes up tight before sending it back.

Good Luck!

rl845

[idahoron]

The rifle I shot those groups with is a bullet gun. The sights are Lyman 57 SML peep sight with a Lyman 17 AML globe front sight with Lee SHavers inserts.

http://www.hunt101.com/data/541/medium/Flatlander_2.jpg

I agree that 3" is not hanis by any means but I do have other load that are better. Ron

http://www.hunt101.com/data/541/Group_2_small.jpg
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd294/idahoron/Muzzleloaders/500SW3-22-08small.jpg

[flyingstick]

Thanks Linstrum, I'll check it for specks of lead and closure before I send it back.
Idahoron, that is Impressive!!!!

[mooman76]

I think your out of round is your problem. Lees moulds can be out of round and are on occation but it is rare. I don't know how they do it but maybe they get a small piece of metal between the blocks when they close it and machine it or something but it happens. Make sure you are doing your part casting and then I'd send it back.

[frontier gander]

I have a lee minie 360 mold and they are pretty difficult to shoot in the 1:28 twist. I have another inline with deep grooved 1:32 twist and that baby shoots them like a dirty dream!

[Taylor]

Try going to the 250 grain,made a difference in my Scout(1-28).80 gr RS with beeswax/crisco and overpowder wad.