Pat's 35PB Checkmaker

[.30/30 Guy]

Yesterday I received my 35PB Checkmaker from PatMarlin. This report is considerably different than what I anticipated posting. My first impressions are WOW!

I cut a Hires root beer can into strips. Aluminum cans tend to retain their can shape and are a real pain to cut on the paper cutter. Lith plate and copper sheeting are flat and cut beautiful into strips.

The first disks that I cut were from the lith plate. I stacked three strips up and ran them through the cutter. They cut very well. Please do not try this! The disks stick together and you will spend more time trying to get them apart than if you cut them from a single strip.

I also cut the pop can strips in three layers. For me they cut better win multiple layers than they do in a single layer. They do not stick together when cut in multiple layers.

The checks formed very well using the 0.004” pop can, 0.008” lith plate, and 0.10” copper materials. The fit of the check is not tight for the diameter of boolit I used. They should accommodate a large range of diameters.

I ran the boolits through my Star to seat the gas checks. I was surprised with the effort required to size them. They required much less effort than I was expecting.

This is not an extensive test, but I loaded ten rounds of plain base, pop can check, lith check, and copper check. The checks shot better that the plain base.

Equipment:
RPM Sportsman in .357 magnum with 10 - ¾” barrel & 2x Burris
LBT 357 158 OWC sized to 0.359” over 10.6 grains 2400. A rather mild load.
Testing was done at 50 yards from a bench.

First plain base ~ Second pop can ~ Third .008" lith plate ~ Fourth .010 copper

[beagle]

Got mine a couple of days ago also. Pop can material works pretty well and i'm working the bugs out of my system.

I'm GCing the 358429HP and I too was surprised at the small effort that it requires.

I anealed some pop can material a while back but now, I have to stop and remember how I did it but that seems the way to go on the PB bullets.

My finished product bases turn out great./beagle

[.30/30 Guy]

There are some comments that I would like to add about my previous post.

The boolits that I used in my test work great in my S&W model 27 sized to .358”. The RPM does much better with a .359 boolit than it does with a .358 boolit. The LBT mold drops boolits in the .358 range. They almost drop through the Star die. I have considered beagling the mold. My theory is that the plain base gas check adds a driving band on the back of the boolit and thereby increases the accuracy. I can in effect alter the boolit diameter with the gas check.

If I were starting over in pistol molds I would get only plain base molds. The plain base gas check makes the plain base boolit dual purpose. Only have to cast one boolit for either application.

I have this dream about a .30 plain base boolit. Add a 30PB gas check to it. Oh the possibilities………..

[PatMarlin]

Wow! Outstanding Robert .....!

You guys make me look good. You guys make my work easier and give me the will to carry on.

An old friend of mine in the music business (keyboardist for Tower of Power actually, and a great person) used to say, "Applause is the food of the entertainer". Your feed back comments and shooting results is my food.

I'm very thankful to be a part of this shooting community here at Cast Boolits, and have so many of you seasoned experienced cast shooters use and like my products, and validate the same benefits I see in them. We shall keep going... :drinks:

[beagle]

You do good work...../beagle


Wow! Outstanding Robert .....!

You guys make me look good. You guys make my work easier and give me the will to carry on.

An old friend of mine in the music business (keyboardist for Tower of Power actually, and a great person) used to say, "Applause is the food of the entertainer". Your feed back comments and shooting results is my food.

I'm very thankful to be a part of this shooting community here at Cast Boolits, and have so many of you seasoned experienced cast shooters use and like my products, and validate the same benefits I see in them. We shall keep going... :drinks:

[beagle]

Yes, a GC will add more stability. I had a MG .30/30 Marlin and a GC bullet always shot better than a PB bullet. I attributed that to the shallow rifling holding the check. With a PB bullet, no matter the velocity in the shallow rifling, I think I was "losing traction" and they were skidding./beagle


There are some comments that I would like to add about my previous post.

The boolits that I used in my test work great in my S&W model 27 sized to .358”. The RPM does much better with a .359 boolit than it does with a .358 boolit. The LBT mold drops boolits in the .358 range. They almost drop through the Star die. I have considered beagling the mold. My theory is that the plain base gas check adds a driving band on the back of the boolit and thereby increases the accuracy. I can in effect alter the boolit diameter with the gas check.

If I were starting over in pistol molds I would get only plain base molds. The plain base gas check makes the plain base boolit dual purpose. Only have to cast one boolit for either application.

I have this dream about a .30 plain base boolit. Add a 30PB gas check to it. Oh the possibilities………..

[legi0n]

wow, can't wait to get mine :D

[.30/30 Guy]

I tested boolits from a different mold with the PD gas checks.

The mold I used is a Hoch 357 157 nose pour plain base. This has been my best mold for the .357 that I have tested. Why would anyone use a single cavity nose pour for pistol? Back in the 1960's I lived in Montrose, Colorado and did a lot of shooting with Rich Hoch before he made boolit molds. I have gotten some of his molds to help me remember what a great guy he was.

I used the same gun and load as before. I wasn't expecting much difference between the plain base and adding the gas checks because of the quality of the bases of the boolits. I was very pleased with the results. With the gas check groups there is "central" center group of about 1-1/4".

I am impressed with the results of the PB gas checks using the two different boolits that I have tried.

[PatMarlin]

Beauty Robert-

I think old Elmer would have liked the PB Checkmaker™. Soon as I get more calibers programed and done with, I'll start putting in range time again. Can't wait to have some fun going for 200 yrds with my PB molds.

[UNIQUEDOT]

This is an absolute dream come true! I am saving my pennies for this one... actually two of 'em :)

[taminsong]

I'm very anxious to have mine arrived. Pat says he already ship it last Friday!

I'm so excited I cannot sit still thinking what will be the groupings in my GP100 6" 357mag!

[.30/30 Guy]

I just made a batch of PB checks out of 0.08" lith plate. After running a few PB boolits through my Star I tried a gas check shank boolit with a PB check. WOW! It looked great! I may need to rethink making both regular 35 checks and 35 PB checks.

At least with the 0.008" lith plate I don't see any difference in the installed checks.

Edit:

I cut a strip of 0.010" copper and make a few PB checks. Again I seated them on some gas check shank boolits. Same results as with the lith plate stuff. Worked very good.

[Dannix]

If I were starting over in pistol molds I would get only plain base molds. The plain base gas check makes the plain base boolit dual purpose. Only have to cast one boolit for either application.
Thanks for posting that, as that's something I've been considering since I came across Pat's PB dies. Have you done any comparison testing against GC boolits with "traditional" GCs, instead of against PBs though?


I have this dream about a .30 plain base boolit. Add a 30PB gas check to it. Oh the possibilities………..
What weight? If something small, you may be interested in this:
Soupcan 30 cal AKA 311316 NOE GB (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=104133)

[PatMarlin]

Thanks for posting that, as that's something I've been considering since I came across Pat's PB dies. Have you done any comparison testing against GC boolits with "traditional" GCs, instead of against PBs though?


What weight? If something small, you may be interested in this:
Soupcan 30 cal AKA 311316 NOE GB (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=104133)


I don't quite follow your question Dannix. Are you are asking if there has been accuracy tests with factory gas checks compared to Checkmaker™ dies checks? If so the answer is a definite yes, and you can find those comparisons weeding through the links I've posted here in the Gas Check section this morning. "Mother of all Links thread"

Shooters here have met or exceeded the accuracy performance of factory checks with their self made Checkmaker™ die gas checks.

[cardonasharp]

My brother has the same GC in 35PB. He made me about 600 of them. He told me he used a beware of dog sign he bought at home depot for $1.19. 1000 from Midway would cost $36.00 shipped. So for 1200 Gc $2.38 now that is a deal. The gas check will not pull off the castboolits. I use a RCBS mold and resize to .358 using Lee die. I tumble lube with Alox. He also ordered another GC maker from Pat but I dont know which one. Pat makes a good product. [smilie=w:[smilie=w:

[Dannix]

Not Checkmaker™ die gas checks vs store bought. I'm already sold on Checkmaker™ die gas checks being at least an equal to the factory options.

I'm asking if there's been any testing of a plain base boolit with a Checkmaker™ PB die gas check versus a gas check boolit with a Checkmaker™ ("normal", "traditional", non-PB) die gas check.

A plain base boolit with a Checkmaker™ PB die gas check versus a plain base boolit sans gas check had been done. Your PB dies are surely a boon to those with plain base boolits that wouldn't play nicely otherwise! But I'm not ready to completely abandon gas check boolit designs and switch exclusively to PBs solely on that. You follow?


Hope that's clearer than mud. :)








If I were starting over in pistol molds I would get only plain base molds. The plain base gas check makes the plain base boolit dual purpose. Only have to cast one boolit for either application.
Thanks for posting that, as that's something I've been considering since I came across Pat's PB dies. Have you done any comparison testing against GC boolits with "traditional" GCs, instead of against PBs though?
I don't quite follow your question Dannix. Are you are asking if there has been accuracy tests with factory gas checks compared to Checkmaker™ dies checks? If so the answer is a definite yes, and you can find those comparisons weeding through the links I've posted here in the Gas Check section this morning. "Mother of all Links thread"

Shooters here have met or exceeded the accuracy performance of factory checks with their self made Checkmaker™ die gas checks.

[PatMarlin]

Right here:

Just in- New test report on the 35PB cal Checkmaker™
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=93833

[Dannix]

That link is to this thread. Was that intentional? I'm only seeing PB vs PB with PB Gas Check. Am I blind?


Right here:

Just in- New test report on the 35PB cal Checkmaker™
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=93833

[.30/30 Guy]

Dannix ~ I posted results on using PatMarlin's 35 Checkmaker as well as the 35 PB. If you search you should be able to find it.

I was looking at my data and with my .357 Mag pistol and I am getting better groups with the 35 PB than I am with the regular gas check boolits. Perhaps 1/4" at 50 yards.

I am real impressed with the PB concept.

[Dannix]

Thanks for posting. I'll search for it then. :)

[PatMarlin]

HA!

I found one:


Pat's 35 caliber Checkmaker™
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=92975

[Dannix]

Thanks!

[taminsong]

Pat,

I was really ecstatic :D yesterday at the range when my GP100 print groups that I couldn't believed! I was really at high that I finally develop a round that my gun really likes!

Its been a long time that I've been doing the testing for various configuration and finally settled on this round. Your 35PB really made the difference but I sized the bullet at .357.

Before, sizing the bullets at .358 was not satisfactory, cannot get good groups. Now, I can hit a 2 inch square target at 20 full steps placing all 6 rounds into that square! Isn't it nice!

Thanks for the 35PB Checkmaker of yours!

Kynth

[PatMarlin]

Outstanding Kynth!

Can you ship some Lumpia in a flat rate box? ...:mrgreen:

[taminsong]

If I can only find a way to get the Lumpia fresh to you, I will really do it!

My, I will buy all the lumpia that I can find in the supermarket!

[Dannix]

Wow, you got me craving some now. I may cook some up this weekend. :mrgreen:

Out of curiosity, locally-manufactured 1911s fairly inexpensive for you? I'm kind of wish you guys could have become part of us united states, but then again, that's not as attractive a proposition as it was 100years ago...


If I can only find a way to get the Lumpia fresh to you, I will really do it!

My, I will buy all the lumpia that I can find in the supermarket!

[PatMarlin]

My Rock Island 1911 ROCKS!!

[7of7]

I received mine last Tuesday. Very nice.. I ended up making a few adjustments to my sizer die. (Since I have two that are the same size) I increased the lead in on the die. They go on much easier. Thankfully, I have a lathe to work with. I also polished up the forming area of the checkmaker, makes it just a bit easier to form them..
Since I swage jacketed bullets, in 30 cal, I figured I would shape a check, and see how it would work as a short jacket... or in this case, a supershort jacket.. Now I can't wait to get the PB45 checkmaker.. because it worked very well..

I bought a roll of .010 copper, and picked up a cheap paper cutter, that really doesn't work to well.. gotta get a different paper cutter now.. I did see that Harbor freight tools has a benchtop break/shear that is 8inches wide.. Perfect for what I need...LOL

Thanks Pat!!

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I bought a roll of .010 copper, and picked up a cheap paper cutter, that really doesn't work to well.. gotta get a different paper cutter now.. I did see that Harbor freight tools has a benchtop break/shear that is 8inches wide.. Perfect for what I need...LOL Thanks Pat!!

Was it the Harbor Freight Cheapo paper cutter ?
Because that is the one I got, $12.99 on sale.
It cuts the 0.016" copper sheet that I bought,
maybe not as easily as cutting paper, but not a big problem.
It starts cutting fine, then the last inch or so, I have to
hit the cutter handle with the palm of my hand.

cutting the 0.010 copper samples I got from Pat
were no problem at all...and of course cutting
the 0.004 coke cans is as easy as paper,
but cutting coke cans straight is a challenge.
I finally tried taking the "roll" out of it, and that is the ticket.
Jon

[7of7]

I guess, it wouldn't even qualify as cheap.. It was part of an auction for office supplies I won.. figured it may be half way decent.. boy was I wrong.. I need to get one like those ones we used in school with the heavy cutter arm..
But the Fiskers shears I have cuts it really nicely.. I would rather use a paper cutter or shear to get the pieces the correct dimension..
I have a PB30, and PB45 comming.. so I want to be able to make a guide for cuts..

[taminsong]

Dannix,

Local 1911's were made by ARMSCOR here. I think they're selling it for 24,000 pesos, or 500 dollars plus. Not to hijacked this thread, I read somewhere that Armscor is already making some "frames" for STI. If you asked me, STI really commands a high price here, somewhere around 120thou to 180thou pesos, maybe 2700 dollars.

I don't have any interest in 1911, got a lot of chance to own one but I passed. What I've been dreaming is my GP100. For ten years every time I saw it on a display, excitement really builds up! But right time did came and I finally got one last year. The 35PB really makes my day last Sunday afternoon at the range. Tomorrow I will try again the 357mags that I loaded just now and see what will be the result.

[PatMarlin]

I received mine last Tuesday. Very nice.. I ended up making a few adjustments to my sizer die. (Since I have two that are the same size) I increased the lead in on the die. They go on much easier. Thankfully, I have a lathe to work with. I also polished up the forming area of the checkmaker, makes it just a bit easier to form them..
Since I swage jacketed bullets, in 30 cal, I figured I would shape a check, and see how it would work as a short jacket... or in this case, a supershort jacket.. Now I can't wait to get the PB45 checkmaker.. because it worked very well..

I bought a roll of .010 copper, and picked up a cheap paper cutter, that really doesn't work to well.. gotta get a different paper cutter now.. I did see that Harbor freight tools has a benchtop break/shear that is 8inches wide.. Perfect for what I need...LOL

Thanks Pat!!

It just may need adjustment and sharpening. First off get you an EZE-lap diamond hone:

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INSRAR2&PMAKA=399-6742&PMPXNO=2615011

A few strokes across the flat cutting (handle end, into the edge) will tune it up nicely. You can use the hone on your Checkmaker™ as well. See how that cuts and if still a problem, check the gap adjustment of the cutter. Maybe out.

The old paper cutters are definitely better than the new ones when sharp and adjusted.

[Dannix]

Go figure. I would have thought the would be a bit cheaper considering they are in your back yard, but with today's wordwide marketplace, I guess that's no longer a factor.

Hope you 357 loads turns out to be a winner. :cbpour:

Dannix,

Local 1911's were made by ARMSCOR here. I think they're selling it for 24,000 pesos, or 500 dollars plus. Not to hijacked this thread, I read somewhere that Armscor is already making some "frames" for STI. If you asked me, STI really commands a high price here, somewhere around 120thou to 180thou pesos, maybe 2700 dollars.

I don't have any interest in 1911, got a lot of chance to own one but I passed. What I've been dreaming is my GP100. For ten years every time I saw it on a display, excitement really builds up! But right time did came and I finally got one last year. The 35PB really makes my day last Sunday afternoon at the range. Tomorrow I will try again the 357mags that I loaded just now and see what will be the result.

[SSGOldfart]

Hummmmmmmm I need one of these in .224 and another in 40S&W .401

[abqcaster]

I got some 35 PB GCs from a friend to try out. I'm impressed. I was able to swage them on with little pressure, using a lee sizing die. The do have to go in tail-end first. The only problem I had was about 1/4 of them were ripping and ending up in the lube groove. I think a) some of that will get fixed with practice and b) it might be a matter of something thicker than a standard pop/beer can aluminum. Like I said, though, I'm impressed. I was also better able to preserve the profile of my hollow points by using the proper top punch on top of the Lee punch. It was awkward, but I think with a little machining I might be onto something.

[fcvan]

Who in the heck would send gas checks to Albuquerque? :)

You can mod the Lee punch to preserve your boolit nose and aid in centering the boolit and check during seating. Oil the snot out so the die body and the sides of the punch, not the face. Oil up the boolit and push it part way into the die body, almost flush with the die body. Mix up some JB weld and put it in the die body covering the boolit nose. Put the die body in your press and push the boolit up with the sizer punch. Let it sit for an hour and poof, your sizer punch is now a custom nose punch! I have customized some Lyman nose punches the same way.

I've had some checks tear and found that (for me) centering the boolit and check in the sizing die body, and getting them started straight, helped reduce tearing. If you need more checks, let me know, and get your Checkmaker order in with Pat, he makes a dandy product. Frank

[PatMarlin]

Experimentation is the key to get the right combination for your needs with PB checks., Boolit alloy, age and hardness all have an effect on tearing, in addition to the hardness of your metals. The smoothness and entrance transition of your sizing die. I give an example of tearing in the 45PB link below.

Once you get your combination down, you'll get a perfect swaged metal base, that works effortlessly with your sizer. I'm getting that with 45 cal and my old lyman 45's. That is a test for sure.

[abqcaster]

Thanks gents. Option "a" seems to be the biggest factor right now. I'll try lubing the checks as well. I have gotten better at bullet placement and keeping the check steady and centered. My next stop is my father in law's shop to mod the sizer punch. He's a retired engineer and can fab anything in his shop.

FWIW, Frank, I didn't name names because I didn't want to send a bunch of people to you who wanted free samples. Thanks for the offer. I'm very happy with the ones you sent just scratching my head over the tearing. I am saving my nickels as you say, for my own check maker. :D

[PatMarlin]

Old thread with a lot of great links and info from 2010... :Fire: