Comments about the Lee collet neck-sizer

[FAsmus]

Gentlemen;

I'm interested to ask what the membership has found as the Lee collet neck-sizers have been in use.

As for me, I've several sets of these tools and have some things to say.

The first and certainly successful die I got was for the 303 British; it did what it was designed to do with no problems at all. Then, by some experimentation I discovered that the 303 die would work perfectly for the 7.65x53. This encouraged me to buy a neck sizer for my 7.62x39 shooting and it too worked very well.

~ A digression here per the 7.62x39 is that I shoot the cartridge in a Yugoslavian SKS with the gas system generally in the "off", or grenade-launching position. This allows me to shoot it single-shot, operating the action by hand. This, in turn, allows me to totally avoid spending the rest of my life hunting brass .. Also, it prevents the brass from being hammered through a semi-auto operation, which, in turn, reduces the need to FL size the cases every time I reload them to something much more reasonable. So far, I can load with the neck-sizer for 7 to 10 times before the cases need FL sizing and trimming. ~

Anyway, all these things being encouraging to me I went ahead and bought a Lee collet die for my operations with my 30'06 rifles. Here I have run into a certain amount of trouble.

First, as I set up the die for sizing I sized a case neck repeatedly, measuring the neck ID with my small-hole gauge and a micrometer, looking for a light interference fit for seating the bullets I was using. It turned out that the die would always size the necks with an easily measurable taper. The tight end of this taper was always right at the case mouth, tapering bigger as I measured further and further into the neck. This taper amounted to 0.002 to 0.003 even with the die tightened to size as much as the design permits. Checking unsized cases made no difference; they all came out tapered.

I measured the thickness of the necks in my 30'06 cases, not just one or two but at least 20+ and they were all just fine, never showing more than +/- 0.0005 maximum difference between high and low thicknesses and no variation at all as respect to thickness at the mouth compared to thickness further down the necks.

It was possible to work around this problem but the procedures did not work any better or save any time as compared to the old RCBS neck sizer procedures I've used for years. ~ I have returned to the RCBS NS die for the rest of my 30'06 shooting.

My idea is that since the 30/06 neck is a good deal longer than the other cartridges I have loaded with the Lee dies that design is not capable of holding the tooling parallel in the longer neck of the 30'06.

How have you fellows found the performance of these dies?

Good evening,
Forrest

[Johnch]

I use the Lee collet neck sizers in a number of different cal

I have had no isues with a slight taper as I use a M die to expand the case mouth before seating anyways

If the taper you have found bothers you
Get a Hornady 30 cal neck sizing die , it works like a standard sizer
But only sizes the neck


As for the Lee Collet dies
I use them all the time and love them

John

[MtGun44]

I find that the collet dies produce accurate ammo, great if you are shooting the cases
back in the same rifle. May not work for multiple chambers due to small differences.

The center pin keeps the neck straight and true, a valuable thing.

Nilll

[Bret4207]

I'm still up in the air on the Collet Sizers. I love the idea. So much less strain on the brass. But I had a problem with one of the dies, I forget exactly what it was. Seems that it wasn't sizing square with the case body but there was no rhyme or reason to it. So I'm still thinking on it.

I wonder if Lee designs some taper in the neck to ease release? Perhaps a bit of internal grinding or polishing could remove the apparent taper?

[1hole]

"How have you fellows found the performance of (Lee collet neck) dies?"

I found my first one to be so good I now have them for every rifle round I load for; love 'em. Have "retired" or sold off my conventional neck sizers.

[Iowa Fox]

I have a lee collet die for 223 that leaves collet marks on the neck of the case after sizing. Has anyone discovered anything to avoid this?

[TNsailorman]

The Lee's are nice if you want to neck size only and your press is not a "camover" design such as the RCBS Rockchucker. If it is a camover design you will find that the die will peen itself in short order and will need to be polished back every so often. This is not particularly hard to do but it is an issue at times, like when you are in the middle of a loading session and the collet sticks because of the peening. Because of this I got rid of all my collet dies. Otherwise I really liked them. James

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I have several Lee collet dies.
some are used very little...for various reasons, none of which are problems with the die,
But I haven't had any detectable issues where I'd start measuring for neck taper,
I may start though :)
The most valuable to me is the 22 Hornet.
those necks are so thin, FL sizing usually only gets me 3 or 4 reloads,
with the Lee collet die, I can get 10 or so reloadings.
Jon

PS, also I am very happy with using the 233 Lee collet die for my Thompson Contender in 233AI.

[Sensai]

Forrest, I had a similar problem, only in reverse. I took the die apart and found that I had some grit in the upper portion of the grooves in the collet. This would allow the collet to be pressed in only a certain amount, and there was enough spring to make the sizing uneven. It's worth taking the die apart, just to check. BTW, I really like the dies.

[1hole]

"The Lee's are nice if you want to neck size only ..."

No surprise. After all, the Collet die IS clearly marked and sold as a neck sizer!


"..and your press is not a "camover" design such as the RCBS Rockchucker."

Well, my press is a RC II. It works fine and has as long as Lee has made those dies. ???


Iowa, the four shallow "pinch marks" it leaves on necks are harmless.

[HORNET]

I've been using the Lee collet dies in my old Rockchucker for a few years now. Once you figure out how to adjust them they don't peen themselves anymore. I mark the correct relative positions of the die body and Lee lock-ring by making a line across the ring and up the die body to indicate consistent positioning in the press from one setup to the next. I had problems with nose-riding designs pushing back into the cases so I polished the sizing arbors down a couple of thousandths in the collet area with less diameter reduction further down the collet until I could feel mild drag when opening the press and a light feel when I ran the case into the M-die. The arbors are soft and easy to polish and spares only cost ~$2 IIRC. You should be able to correct the ID taper by doing this. Even BR shooters complain about too little case neck tension with j-bullets with collet dies in the "as furnished" condition and Lee's instructions mention polishing the arbor if desired.

[Dark Helmet]

+1 on polishing the arbor

[geargnasher]

I only have one set, that's for the .30-30 for the same reasons posted above for the .22 hornet. Since I customized a Lee set to fit my chamber and .311" boolits with .001" neck tension I don't use it much, but it did work well. I had to disassemble and clean it the first time because it was full of metal shavings. Only quit using it because it sizes the neck TOO far for my liking, not because there was anything wrong with it. I plan to buy one for the '06, I'll keep watch for tapered necks.

IIRC the collet die has a FL body inside and can be used for FL sizing if adjusted correctly, but I'm not digging in the attic tonight to find out for sure.

Gear

[FAsmus]

Johnch;

You say: I have had no isues with a slight taper as I use a M die to expand the case mouth before seating anyways.

Me; Yes, I have tried expanding the necks back like that too. The deal is that this saves no time over just going ahead and using a conventional Neck-Sizer die (mine is a RCBS ) in the first place.

You say; As for the Lee Collet dies I use them all the time and love them

Me; Yes, I like them too - its just in the 30'06 that I have my doubts about their usefulness. Due to the taper I note irregular pressure when seating bullets. This in turn means irregular bullet-pull upon firing. Leading to enough difference in velocity to toss me high or low off the steel at long range .. you see the problem.

Good evening,
Forrest

[FAsmus]

Sensai;

You say; I had a similar problem, only in reverse. I took the die apart and found that I had some grit in the upper portion of the grooves in the collet. This would allow the collet to be pressed in only a certain amount, and there was enough spring to make the sizing uneven. It's worth taking the die apart, just to check.

Me; Roger the checking and cleaning. I have found that the slight bullet-lube that always seems to stick to the case neck's OD makes it mandatory to maintain cleanliness in the tooling!

The SKS 7.62x39 and the 7.65x53 Argentine don't seem to be anywhere nearly as sensitive as the tool for 30'06 though. Same reason no doubt ~ longer necks mean more residue.

Good evening,
Forrest

[FAsmus]

HORNET;

Just a one-liner here: I have found the Lee "lock-rings" to be miss-named! That is they don't so much as lock or repeat worth a hoot as give false confidence that they are doing so!

I have tossed them all, replacing them with REAL locking rings that do lock and do repeat.

Roger reducing the diameter of the depriming rod to allow more sizing than the factory specifications do. Nice.

Good evening,
Forrest

[TNsailorman]

"The Lee's are nice if you want to neck size only ..."

No surprise. After all, the Collet die IS clearly marked and sold as a neck sizer!


"..and your press is not a "camover" design such as the RCBS Rockchucker."

Well, my press is a RC II. It works fine and has as long as Lee has made those dies. ???


Iowa, the four shallow "pinch marks" it leaves on necks are harmless.

I don't know what your problem is with the neck size statement but I would suggest you read the comment and think about what I said some more. During the early "blush" of write-ups of the Collet dies, they were extolled as the die that would make all other dies obsolete and would load ammo more accurate than any other die. I took the first idea with a grain of salt but none the less tried them in mass like others. The second idea may or may not have some merit but is heavily dependant on the skill of the user and often is more imortant than the die make being used. No equipment is perfect in all situations. I know of fellows who had lever action and semi-auto rifles who were trying to get the last ounce of accuracy from them and they bought collet dies to try to get it. Problems arose because the lever / semi-auto systems don't lend themselves well to neck sizing, a point conveniently not made known to them by some sellers of these dies. I use bolt rifles and have since the 50's and was aware that the collets were neck sizers--not all people were. Statement two about no problems with your RCBS II suggests your don't understand how this could happen. I talked to Lee about this on at least a couple of occassions before I decided to get rid of the Collet dies. They acknowledge to me that they were aware of this and even were kind enough to tell me eactly how to polish the collet fingers to return them to usage again. If I remember correctly, the instructions in later collet die sets include a warning about this sticking of the dies, the early dies that I bought had no such warning and I doubt if Lee was even aware of this when they first brought them to market. Their solution was to back off the die adjustment so that the die did not come to rest rest against the shellholder during the cam over portion of the stroke. It does work after a fashion. I tried this but doing that only made the neck sized about 2/3's of the case neck, which I did not want. I like to size my necks almost to the shoulder. Their other suggestion was to buy a Lee press which does not have the cam over feature. My old C-H press (a late 1950's "C" press) does not have the cam over feature and I could have sized my brass on that but chose not to do that. I like some of Lee's equipment and use it regularly but some of it I find other makers better suit what I want to do. This is the case with the collet. I did not mean to hurt any ones feelings about their Lee equipment, just stating what I have found to be true. I nearly always add to the statements I make that "this is my experience" so that the readers can make their own judgements about the subject. I have been reloading for over 50 years and I do know a little bit about it. I don't post very often but when I do, I know what I am talking about and the statement is true. If you have not had a problem with your collet die on your RCBS, I am happy for you. The statement about "pinch marks" of the brass being harmless I can take issue with. Any "working" of the brass whether it is sizing a case, crimping a bullet, or dents, etc. work hardens the brass and makes case life shorter. The only alternative to eventual case failure is periodically annealing the case with a flame to make it softer again to restore the elastic structure of the brass. This is done in the neck /shoulder area only. Just my experience. James

[1hole]

""The Lee's are nice if you want to neck size only ...".

"I don't know what your problem is with the neck size statement but I would suggest you read the comment and think about what I said some more."

I not only read it, I quoted you exactly as you wrote it.

My "problem" is that your unqualified statement that, "The Lee's are nice" and followed by "if you want to neck size only" suggests to anyone reading it would be led to think Lee's dies might be different from others and that's simply incorrect. Yeah, most of us would know what you 'meant' but the only ones needing your poorly explained post wouldn't have a clue that you had said it incorrectly.

I'm sure you know that all neck sizers only neck size and it should have been written that way. That was MY point, written for those who otherwise might not understand. Perhaps it would help if you re-read what both of us wrote and think about it. ??

[Papa Jack]

I too have several of the Lee Collet Sizer Dies , I shoot a H&R Handi-Rifle. I haven't had any trouble with the dies. I do from time to time take the dies apart and clean the pieces and use grease on the inside of the die body to lubricate the collet fingers... It keeps the dies operating nice and smooth.
"Papa Jack"

[FAsmus]

Gentlemen;

It is pretty much always unfortunate that things get "hot" in these threads; it curtails further exchanges that might very well have merit..

Good evening,
Forrest

[skeet1]

I have the .303, .30-06 and 7.5X55 collet dies and they all work very good. One time the .30-06 die got stuck and needed freeing up but I have not had an issue since. After being stuck I did a little polishing and added a lite coat of oil and it was fine. I believe that the Lee Collet Dies are one of the most unique designs in tools just like a lot of Lee's other tools. Innovative comes to mind!

Skeet1

[Changeling]

Actually I have used several different manufactures dies in my 220 swifts, now I only use the Lee Colet die. After about 5 firings I full length resize and then return to the LEE Colet die. For me, it is more consistent than the other dies.

[LuvMy1911]

Hello All... I see that some of you folks have mentioned that the Lee "Decap Mandrel" may need to be polished down a little to acheive the right neck tension for some jacketed bullets (or Boolits?). I have been using both the Lee Full Length & Neck Sizing dies for my 3 bolt actions 22-250, 8x57mm JS 98k Mauser and a 300 Win Mag.

The Lee Collet dies for the 22-250 and 300 W Mag work great! The 8mm Collet Die has never seemed to provide the proper neck tension (Bullets can be pressed down into the case).

I did read the Lee Die instruction sheet that mentioned you might have to reduce the mandrel size by polishing... So can I manage this with only a Dial Cailper and a drill press? Or do I need to borrow shop time from someone and access to a micrometer and a lathe? Or is it advisable to order an undersized one from Lee?

If I have described this poorly, sorry! I've only been reloading a short time. I've been hoping to pick up good advise from those here who have more experience than I.

Thanks in advance....

[FAsmus]

LuvMy1911;

This is not a huge deal at all;

Just dis-assemble the die, get the de-capping rod, chuck it up in a 3/8 drill-motor that is held securely in a vise, turn the drill on and (Lightly!) polish it with 220 grit or finer emery cloth or, if you're proficient with a file, (lightly!) file the rotating rod with a fine grade file.

Do not get carried away! Check the diameter of the rod every few passes of the emery cloth or the file until you know what pressure and "cut" is happening to the rod, resulting in a reduction in diameter of 0.002 or so ~ then check the die by running a case through the procedure until you are satisfied that the 8mm bullets are being retained in the case neck with adequate tension.

~ It shouldn't take much! No more than 0.002 or so, maybe 0.0025 off the de-capping rod and you should be in.

If you do not have the precise measurement capability mentioned here don't give it up; by careful "cut & try" method you can still achieve good results - just don't go too fast with the file or emery cloth.

Good afternoon,
Forrest

[LuvMy1911]

Thanks Forrest,

I think I'll give it a shot...