still cant find my problem....

[craveman85]

im getting very close to selling my nef buffalo classic. ive tried 2 different bullets with 4 or 5 lubes and 4 kinds of smokeless and goex 2 and 3f and 3 kinds of primers. i cant get this gun to group. ive got my .243 shooting sub .5 inch groups at 100 yards so i know its not my shooting. i even put a scope on my bc. i gave up on the lee loader and got a reloading press and some dies. that didnt seem to help at all. pure lead bullets didnt help. ive shot 20:1 and 30:1 with no noticable results. what else can i do to get this gun to shoot.

[northmn]

What are you expecting out of the gun? I got a deer with a NEF Buffalo with BP and a cst Gould bullet. The Lee loader should have worked as I only neck sized mine. Loaded ammo looked kind of bottlenecked. What are you shooting in it? Smokeless, it liked 4227. Lee molds did not work worth sour owl droppings with black powder loads. I used SPG lube, a homemade concoction anad Lyman Gold with good results for lube. BP with Federal 215 mag primers. It also liked about 5 grains of 4759 under 62 gr of GOEX 2ff. Sized bullets to 459.

Northmn

[craveman85]

ive tried 4198, 3031, sr something, varget. ive used winchester lr primers, cci 250 mag primers, fed 210 primers. spg and 3 homemade lubes i currently use a 5050 mix of beeswax and crisco. 500 grain lees and 405grain lee hollow bases. i bought a lyman m die as someone suggested and it didnt help. right now im averaging 4 inch groups at 50 yards with the occasional 3 inch group and 1 that was 1.25 inches at 100 yards that ive used exactly the same concoction but no results. i put a small line on my mold so i load every bullet into every case exactly the same. and put them into the gun exactly the same. i use a blow tube when using bp and clean it regularly. ive tried wads too. it doesnt like full lenght sized brass. ive used remington and winchester brass. this gun may end up in the for sale or trade section soon as i refuse to shoot jacketed bullets from it.

[craveman85]

ive fired almost 800 rounds from this rifle so far. im glad im using a steel plate as a backing and can pick up my lead after it falls off. holding my targets on with magnets.

[Kenny Wasserburger]

The two bullets you listed are duds for real accuracy, in my opinion. I have never seen decent accuracy in either. consider that fact that with the cast heavy bullet on has to grip the rifle much differently then your 243. Torque is considerable with heavy bullets in BP loadings your handi rifle really is a poor choice for such shooting hard to grip and shoot well.

Very few people listen when folks try to steer them away from. Even in my 25# PG Sharps I must grip the rifle firmly and follow though is important. With a scope on the rifle one can see and learn much about this.

My Two cents worth. Good luck in your endevors, your lesson was what 350 Plus bucks. Money down on a good Shiloh and 1500 or so left and 2 years to pay.

The Lunger
KW

[Don McDowell]

im getting very close to selling my nef buffalo classic. ive tried 2 different bullets with 4 or 5 lubes and 4 kinds of smokeless and goex 2 and 3f and 3 kinds of primers. i cant get this gun to group. ive got my .243 shooting sub .5 inch groups at 100 yards so i know its not my shooting. i even put a scope on my bc. i gave up on the lee loader and got a reloading press and some dies. that didnt seem to help at all. pure lead bullets didnt help. ive shot 20:1 and 30:1 with no noticable results. what else can i do to get this gun to shoot.

So will the real craveman please stand up?:holysheep
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=93453

[craveman85]

ive held the gun quite firmly in a lead sled for some of these groups and still had the same reslults. also if it were from jumping i would theoretically have my bullets be off to one side as well as high. theyre going high, low, left and right....

[craveman85]

for the most part there has been a consistent velocity too. i made a small roller to check and see if my bullets are deformed theyre not. i separate by .10 grain differences for groups. and dont shoot groups from different castings.

[Kenny Wasserburger]

torque induces left right and hi and lows its all about grip.

Any serrious bench rester will tell you the lead sled is a piece of junk.

Every seen one at a Major Bench rest shoot?

KW

[rhead]

Does it show the same problem with jacketed or factory loads? Sometimes you find a barrel that just plain wants jacketed bullets.

My marlin wants a boolet sized for an almost snug fit in the chamber. .461 or maybe a bit more. Barrel is .458 groove dia.

[SharpsShooter]

Most lee moulds are not up to the size you will need. Have you slugged it to really see what it wants? I have some experience with the BC and we even got it to shoot Paper Patch decently, just under 2" at 100. It also shot the 457125 very well at .460"

SS

[Larry Gibson]

craveman85

I'm coming into this a little late so answer me some questions if you will;

Wth the 500 gr bullet;
What alloy?
What lube?
What are you sizing the bullets to?
What smokeless powders?
What powder charges?

Same questions for the 405HB bullet.

Larry Gibson

What smokeless powders?

[EDG]

What is the land diameter and the bore diameter of your barrel?

Try a heavy bullet with a large nose at about 1100 FPS using SR4759.

[nicholst55]

Here's my take on it: we know that the gun won't group with your handloads; how does it shoot with factory ammo? Let's determine if the rifle will group at all, before we try to diagnose why it doesn't like your handloads.

Next step, shoot a couple of groups with the forearm attached. Now remove the forearm and shoot a couple more groups. Does it shoot better with, or without, the forearm attached? If it shoots better without the forearm attached, try placing an O-ring that just fits over the barrel stud in there, and reattach the forearm. Now how does it shoot?

Also, I have to ask if you've had anyone else try to group with the gun. Not trying to demean your abilities, but some folks simply shoot better than others. And FWIW, I was never impressed by the Lead Sled; I shoot better without one.

I've had guns that simply wouldn't group worth squat with my cast boolits, but shoot quite well with J-word bullets. It's possible that this one is similar.

FWIW, there are a couple of threads of Handi-rifle FAQs at Graybeard Outdoors that cover a lot of accuracy troubleshooting. Have you read through these?

FAQs and Help (http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.php/topic,26264.0.html)

Handi Basics 101 (http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.php/topic,116451.0.html)

[craveman85]

slugged 457 using .4595 dia bullets. im going to try some duplex loads this week and see where that leaves me.

[craveman85]

had a friend who does lots of target shooting and shoots really good try it and he had the same results i did. the gun shot a 2 inch group with hornady leverevolutions at 100 yards

[Tom-ADC]

craveman85, I feel for you, my suggestion is give up and send that poor rifle to me, I promise to struggle with it.:bigsmyl2:

[Gunlaker]

slugged 457 using .4595 dia bullets. im going to try some duplex loads this week and see where that leaves me.

Sounds like you've tried a lot of things. The groups you describe are really bad. Almost any load you can think of ought to do much better than that.

If I were you I'd try a box of jacketed bullets and see how it does.

Also, if the barrel slugs @ .457" you might want to try sizing those bullets down a bit. I've got a .45-70 with a tight bore (just barely 0.457") and it shows a definite preference for bullets that are sized to either .457" or .458". Larger than that and accuracy starts to get worse. Mind you, nothing like you've mentioned.

Chris.

[craveman85]

i wonder if it could have anything to do with the fact that my barrel crown isnt perpendicular to the bore. just found that out last night. its off by about 7 degrees to the right side of the barrel. looks like this barrel is getting sent back to remington too.