How far is too far?

[HPT]

How far is too far when shooting a .30-30 with open sights? I'm thinking that at some point the front sight would obscure the target.

[uncle joe]

depends on the target, 150 if your shooting at a quarter, and over 300 if your shooting at the side of a barn, HAHA
Seriously depends on target and shooter, someone familiar enough with the gun can make a much longer shot than a novice with the same gun.

[HPT]

Hi Uncle Joe

I was thinking about a the heart-lung area of a deer size object.

[uncle joe]

I probably wouldn't try it over 150 yards or so. but that's just me. I don't usually use open sights deer hunting

[roverboy]

What Uncle Joe said.

[imashooter2]

IMO, this is more of an indian than an arrow question.

My pathetic old eyes run out way before 150 with notch and post rifle sights.

[home in oz]

Most 30-30s have poor sights, and the boolit has a arched trajectory as well.

[btroj]

I would say it depends more on the shooter than the gun.
Question should be how far can YOU reliably hit with an open sighted 30-30? That is the real question. The gun will hit way past where I can.

Brad

[Combat Diver]

Know your range, drop, and your ability. Add a reciever sight and I'll shoot to 300. I normally shoot my M4 with irons out to 5-600 yds and a M14 with irons to 1000yds. Get on the range and practice.

CD

[colonelhogan44]

I can hit an 8" piece of firewood standing on end at 150 yards with a Rossi 1892 shooting 38 specials from a kneeling position. I have a friend who can't hit it with a scoped 17 hmr from the same position.

It's not the rifle, but how well you know the rifle.

[JJC]

In regards to the front sight covering to much of the animal, in one of the wolfe publishing magazines John Barsness made a long shot on a caribou. He used a 1/16 bead and knew where the bullet would land inside the bead that covered the target. I am not confident to do that though. If I can find it I will post the issue info.

[Doc Highwall]

My question is for hunting or target shooting because I will give two different answers.

[btroj]

Doc makes an excellent point. When I was actively shooting NRA high lower with a service rifle I regularly shot 600 yards with irons. Did well too. But would I have ever shot at a deer with the same setup- NO.
Target was a known size, known distance. Target also was not a live animal I did not want to wound. Bad shot on target only wounds my ego.
I like the idea that I have seen in numerous places. Shoot at paper plates from field positions. If you move them out to the point that you can't hit them regularly- I'd say at least 80 percent or better- then you have no business shooting deer past that range.
We get too hung up on the gun or the bullet giving max range. It is usually the shooter- even more so with a handgun or iron sights.

Brad

[Ajax]

Couldn't have said it better Brad. Know your gun, know yourself and you know the capabilities of both then you will know what range.

Andy

[Freightman]

I would more than likely stop at 100 to 125 yds. saw a X- acquaintance shoot at a deer at 400 + yds with a 30-30 years ago (on my hunting place) ask why? answer made sure I never took him with me again. " Heck I was just doing a hail Mary, Roger gets away with it all the time." He missed by a country mile but could have caused us a long day of tracking, by the way I packed us up and went home. 100/125 tops with a 30=30 iron sights for me.

[rollmyown]

What Freightman said - 100 to 125 yards (on game). I'd shoot further with a scope.
If it's steel or just plinking I'd shoot to any reasonable distance cos you can't wound a rock or a steel plate.

[dnepr]

I got uncomfortable with the sight picture when the front bead was 3/4 of the deer last year, I waited until the front bead only covered half the deer , would have liked to waited for a closer shot but I was seriosly running out of shooting light , in hindsite I shouldn't have pulled the trigger , I missed the chest cavity I was aiming at but caught her in the neck broke the spine, it paced out to about 120 yards ,

This was with my TC Hawkens not a 30/30 , I won't take a shot that far again with it at a deer unless I put some practice time in shooting at that range . I would say this is about my limit right now with most iron sights ,

[Uncle R.]

Oh sure..
Here we go.
With the brass bead and buckhorn found on many lever guns 150 yards is too far - at least for me. I personally like scopes - at least for most hunting situations. They're a lot more accurate than irons FOR ME.
Yes, of course - I know that your brother-in-law can hit a pop can at two hundred yards every time with his 336 and open sights and that's fine - I'll acknowledge that some people really can do that. But not me. Even so, I'd cheerfully join in and try my luck at the pop can - because a pop can doesn't feel pain or suffer a horrible lingering death if I miss.
My personal standard for game is 90 percent confidence. Since nothing is for sure I can't say 100 percent but you should be 90 percent certain of a clean kill before you squeeze that trigger. To put it another way - you should be willing to bet five hundred dollars on that shot. No excuses, no sighters, first try, one shot - would you lay five hundred on it right there, right now?
If you wouldn't bet five hundred you have no business betting the life of that deer.
Given one of my usual hunting rifles, with my usual hunting ammo, the combination will hold at least 1.5 MOA - often better. Given sufficient time for preparation and position, a standing broadside deer at two hundred yards is easy meat. Yes - I'd lay the bet. It would be the easiest five hundred I ever made.
At three hundred yards, on a calm day, with time to sling up - I'd probably take the shot. Again, if I wasn't willing to lay the bet because of circumstances I wouldn't take the shot. Three hundred is pretty much my personal limit for an unwounded deer, and conditions must be good even for that. This with good scopes, accurate rifle, and flat-shooting cartridges.
Can I HIT a deer at longer range? Oh yes - I've done so more than once. I've made shots at five, even six hundred yards - but those are shots taken to end an ugly situation with wounded animals. I would NEVER "open hostilities" at such range.
But IRON SIGHTS? Open sights? One hundred or maybe 125 is about all I'm comfortable with.
Just my 0.02 worth.
Uncle R.

[btroj]

Thos also explAins why I have a scope on my 1895 Marlin. With the scope I will shoot much farther than I would be comfortable with the irons. It is a combination of low light situations and aging eyes. I would rather use a scope than take any chance of wounding game. My obligation to make a clean kill far outweighs any need my ego has to use irons.

It's about ethics guys, not ego.

Brad

[Lloyd Smale]

with open sights on a living target i wouldnt push it past a 100. Put a scope on it and 200 is very doable.

[Larry Gibson]

Assuming one still has good eyes; if zeroed properly with a proper sight picture and sight alignmnt some fine shooting can be done to 300 yards with a M94 Carbine, better yet with the longer barreled rifles. I zeroed the rifle so the POI was just on the top of the bead at 100 yards with the low step on the elevation slide. Filing the step is how fine adjustments are made. Of course one load must be used but extra slides are easily gotten or made. After zeroing at 100 yards then the addititional steps are zeroed for +50 yard increments filing them down to obtain the zero. The factory slide works well to 200 yards but for shooting to 300 yards requires making a new slide with more notches. Replacing the front bead sight wit a post sight and making the rear notch a square gives a "Partridge" sight picture which is more accurate than the bead front with a U rear nothch. With such an arraignment good shooting to 300 yards is very doable. But, I would still restrict myself to 200 yards on game animals.

Larry Gibson

[jh45gun]

What Lloyd said. Most deer are shot under a hundred yards anyway but I think a 100 yards is starting to get out there with open sights considering the sights on the average lever gun. I think a 125 yards would be my limit. One more thing I bought a Bushnell Range finder just because I crossbow hunt and I want to know the ranges but I also use it now for rifle hunting so I know also how far that deer is. I used to think like most folks I knew ranges but that rangefinder has proven me wrong several times. Though yesterday I saw a doe I felt was 30 yards away and I ranged her and she was 31 yards so I was close. I did not take the shot she was small and had a fawn with her it was not the issue of the fawn I am sure it could take care of its self by now but she was really a small doe probably last years fawn herself.

[onesonek]

My rule of thumb is the max range when I can still put ( from a given field shooting position) 3 consecutive shots on a steel gong that is 1/2 the size of the intended animals kill zone. This is naturally assuming the cartridge/load combination is up to the task at that range.

Dave

[missionary5155]

Greetings
I would take a 6" white piece of round carboard and see how far out I could hit it every time from the shooting positions you use.
Better would be one of those deer sideview targets and have at it. If you can heart lung it at 200 yards 220 or whatever then you really know .
I hunt river bottoms so am never worried about TOO FAR.. Matter of fact I have thrown a spear twice now. All others have been dropped with my 52# recurve.

[Markbo]

I haven't had 20-20 corrected vision for about 6 or 8 years now, so the decision is an easy one for me. 8-)

[ghh3rd]

If I could only see the sights.... it's a good thing there are scopes and red dots.

[looseprojectile]

Just be certain that you will not miss.
If you can hit six straight clay targets at a hundred yards offhand you might be qualified to shoot a deer at a hundred and fifty with a rest. Practice, practice. practice. An amature practices till he gets it right. A professional practices till he can't get it wrong.
I didn't vote cause it leaves so many questions.
You are all on your own on this.

Life is good

[6pt-sika]

At John Kort's October Jubilee in Ridgeway PA I've used 30-30's with tang sights out to 385 meters !

With a 30-30 and iron sights on deer I would prefer to keep them inside 75 yards !

[NickSS]

All I can say is that it depends on several things. The first is the bullet and velocity of same. Second is where your rifle is zeroed to. With a 30-30 even with full power factory loads it is not a really flat shooting gun. So how far can you judge distances and hold over or hold under. Basically you probably can hit a deer in the chest area with open sights out to 100 to 150 yards. A good shot may get a hit reliably at 200 yards. As for futher on live game the cartridge is running out of gas and the chances go way up that you will either miss or would the animal. Now if you are talking target shooting that is another story. I have a pedersoli rolling block in 30-30 that I shoot a lot with cast bullets. My favorite load drives a 173 gr flat point at approximately 1700 fps. I have shot that load out to 600 yards on more than one occation at bulls eye targets. But I have a globe front sight and a tang sight that I can adjust for the range. There is no way that open sights will work out to that range even on the five foot square paper. One time i went to a special shoot at a club. It was 600 yards prone shooting your favorite hunting rifle. There were 15 guys who shot the match. These guys were all competitive rifle shooters several of whom were high master class and the lowers was an expert class shooter. We zeroed our rifles in at 200 yards. Then went back to 600. No sighters were allowed at 600. Of the 15 shooters, all of whom were firing 308 or higher powered rifles with scope sights and full power ammo, only 4 hit the black on the first shot and six missed the 5 foot square target on the first shot. Of the 4 that hit the black only 1 hit the 10 ring (12 inches in diameter at that range). The story was different on the follow up shots as they adjusted their sights and got on target really fast. Now these guys were all experienced shooters and with their target rifles most would shoot a 10 on the first shot at 600 but with a rifle that they only fire when hunting or zeroing it the story was much different. My first shot with my Model 70 264 Win Mag was a 7 at 8 o'clock the rest of the 20 shots were all in the 10 and X ring for a score of 197 14X. That was a good shooting rifle.

[roverboy]

I wonder what the Hornady Leverevolution ammo would do at 200? I would imagine with a rifle that a hunter was familiar with and had good sights like maybe a tang peep sight it would do good at 200.]

[yarro]

As far as you can hit a 10" circle everytime off hand with the load of your choice. Most people have trouble with 100 offhand because they spend their life leaning on a bench. I can hit my dad's 144 yard 8" plate everytime offhand so mine would be 150. His gun has a receiver sight and I am sure that I could do 200 yards with it no problem. If I had a longer range, 200 yards would not be out of the question with stock sights. No matter how flat your catridge is, you still need to practice and learn the limitations of gun, cartridge and shooter.

-yarro

[ole 5 hole group]

I look at it this way, if the rifleman knows his rifle; he will know how far he can shoot it with some degree of success. 100% success rate, I don’t think so, as things happen occasionally and you make a bad shot and sometimes you never find the animal.

Prairie riflemen seem to stretch their barrels a little more than woodsmen, as they can see about as far as they can walk in a week. Keeping both eyes open helps a lot, as far as not having the front bead/barrel cover up most of your target but without a lot of practice your consistency will be lacking.

Shooting a deer with a 30-30 at 300 yards on the prairie – ya, doable, just keep working that lever and you’ll get him but it’s better to work the coolies and jump them at 60 yards or be at the end of the coolie on a drive and have them run past you at 20 yards going mach2+.

[KCSO]

Sigt in so your bullet hits right over the front sight and then just center the sight below the target. The front sight will be bigger than the target but the center of the front sight is in the same place.

[Tazman1602]

Absolutely positively depends on the shooting ability and the EYES of the shooter. With Ghost ring sights on one of my Marlins I can go to 150 yds, anything beyond that requires my old eyes to use a scope...........................

........................and I know there's some naysayers here but you would be AMAZED at how fast target aquisition and acuracy is up to 250 yds with just a 1.5-2 power scope.

NOW..........keep in mind you are talking to a guy who, 15 years ago would have told you to put a 10 power, 50mm objective scope on that rifle if you wanted to hit anything, BUT. I happened to read a book by Jeff Cooper and his Scout Rifle concept and thought I'd give it a try a number of years back. Marlin had just released the .450 Marlin cartridge (FAR superior to the old 45-70, right?) and Ashley Outdoors made a scout scope mount for that and I decided to give her a whirl with a Leupold 1.75 power IER scout scope.

To this day I still cannot believe how nice that carries and how fast target aquisition is for my eyes while carrying in the woods. I love that setup.

On the "old 45-70 OBSOLETE" cartridge? I've got four of them now and being a caster/reloader really don't see the advantage to the .450 Marlin anymore, I also can't bring myself to load them down with a scope and use Ghost Ring sights on them all because as a Northern Michigan hunter I realize most of my shots aren't going to be more than 100-150 yards anyways.

I still love to carry that .450 with the scout scope and in the swamp woods up here it works VERY well, as a matter of fact I put a Bushnell 1.5-4 power scope on my .444 Marlin and love that one too.

Open sights are fine for good eyes and young bodies and high power scopes are great for long range (over 200 yds..) shooting with a cartridge that can go that far --- but don't discount the use of a low power scope for short ranges, fat cartridges, and old eyes.

Just my .0001 cents worth

Art

[arcticbreeze]

I can't see 150 yds:(

[Larry Gibson]

I wonder what the Hornady Leverevolution ammo would do at 200? I would imagine with a rifle that a hunter was familiar with and had good sights like maybe a tang peep sight it would do good at 200.]

My M94 AE Black Shadow puts 7 shots into 1 1/4" with a 2 1/2X scope. Velocity is 2452 fps (M43 Oehler) Zreoed at 200 yards; 2.87" high at 100 yards with 2189 fps and 1702 ft/lbs, zeroed at 200 yards with 1942 fps remaining and 1339 ft/lbs, -12.26 at 300 yards with 1714 fps and 1043 ft/lbs. Psi(M43) for the factory loads was 37,800 and at the top end of SAAMI MAP for my reloads to equal the velocity.

I consider the longer 24" barreled Marlins and Winchesters, particularly with scopes, to definately be 300 yard deer/antelope/coyote rifles with the Hornady LeveRevolution ammo or with the 160 XTR bullets loaded to the same velocity. Very good ammo for the 30-30 and indeed a good improvement in ballistics and capability if you've a rifle to use it.

Larry Gibson

[Ernest]

for me 50 yrds is as far as I would shoot at a deer with iron sights from standing. Kneeling I would stretch to to 65 or so and from braced sitting I would give it ago out to about 75 yards. No further than that.I am luck enough to have my own range and I shoot quite a bit so I have no illusions about how far I can hit a 6 " circle with 90% + accuracy under field conditions.

[rhead]

To far is 10 yards beyond just close enough. With me at least the limiting factor is not the rifle or the sights. My eyes and my ability to hold bite me a lot sooner.

[quilbilly]

The rule of thumb for me is the longest range I can get a good sight picture with open sights. Most of the time that is about 150 yards but I have successfully taken shots at deer out to 250 when I had a good log for a rest and plenty of time to think out the trajectory. In those long range cases, the deer either had no clue I was there or were even bedded. If I had been "made" I wouldn't have taken the shot.
The same rule applies to my 30/30 as my 50 caliber muzzleloaders with conical bullets (not round ball). Both have an MV of about 1800 fps.

[Centaur 1]

I would more than likely stop at 100 to 125 yds. saw a X- acquaintance shoot at a deer at 400 + yds with a 30-30 years ago (on my hunting place) ask why? answer made sure I never took him with me again. " Heck I was just doing a hail Mary, Roger gets away with it all the time." He missed by a country mile but could have caused us a long day of tracking, by the way I packed us up and went home. 100/125 tops with a 30=30 iron sights for me.

This story reminded me of when I was about 15. I saw a guy shoot offhand at a measured 600 yards with his Marlin 30-30. His logic was that it was the last day of the season so why not. The kick in the butt was that we couldn't even see if it was a buck or not, there was a group of deer and he shot at the last one. You know, the last one is "always" a buck that time of year.

[XIT]

I voted for 300 yards being too far. I have a very nice whitetail buck on the wall that gave me a facing away shot at 220 yards. My old 94 has a marble buckhorn site on it. I aimed at his head and at that range it was a one shot drop into the spine. At that range my eyes knew it was a good sized deer but the size of the antlers were imperceivable. I was also thinking the deer was facing me but he was facing away. The background of snow made the deer itself show up well. At 200 yards a one foot drop is not too much. My experience. For what it is worth.

[Whit Spurzon]

The caliber is rarely the limiting factor. Its the rifleman.

The most amazing iron sighted 400 yard shot I've ever witnessed can be seen on Youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vln5EP0JAmg

[RP]

I have a son that takes deer at 200 to 250 yards yearly with his 30/30.

[Phillip]

I have done shots at 150 to 175 with ease, and 200 would be limit. It really all depends on the shooter and what they are comfortable with.

For me, I much rather hunt with open/peep sights then with a scope.

[WyrTwister]

A lot depends on your eyesight .

God bless
Wyr

[SamTexas49]

Most 30-30s have poor sights, and the boolit has a arched trajectory as well.

Dont all Boolits have an arched trajectory? :Fire:

Some just a little more then others 8-)

[Artful]

What used to do was put up a 10" paper plate - when it gets to hitting 9 out of 10 in the plate in your hunting shooting position - I called it far enough. The other thing I used to do was put cardboard in a tire and bounce/roll the tire down in front of the back stop when we could hit the pie plate in the moving tire we were ok but if we didn't you moved closer until you could. - sort of humbling when you first try it. After we started doing that I passed on a lot of fast moving deer.

[40cal]

This sounds like the old debate my Sergeant Major and I always had over a couple of beers. Despite what the books say, the shooter and the rifle combined as a system will determine the effective range, and most of the limitations are due to the shooter's limitations.

[felix]

That is fact and should not have been debated. But after a couple of beers from a true friend, I will debate anything, and take either side for the fun of it. The most valuable experience one can obtain in the professional world is learning how to hold one's position. There is a Toastmaster's Club in most every large community which is open to all, and there you can really practice with valid feedback from the members. ... felix

[1Shirt]

Have been interested in following this thread. Am reminded of a quote from John Taylor's book, "Pondaro" (think that spellin is right) regarding shooting elephants. Went something along the line of "get as close as you can, then get 5 yards closer."::Fire:
Think the longest shot I have ever made on a deer with a number of different rifles was under 150 yds, most were under 100. Would bet a yankee dollar that if the truth were to be known, most deer in this country are shot at well under 100. I mostly shoot jacketed at 100 yds on target, 50 and 100 yds w/cast. I will shoot p-dogs to beyond 500, but that is a different ball game altogether. Anyhow, them's my thoughts on the subject.
1Shot!:coffee:

[Trifocals]

This is a case for an individual judgement call. IMHO, the two biggest factors are the quality of the iron sights and how good the shooters eyesight is. There are also other factors such as lighting conditions. On average if the sights and eyes are decent, I personally would have to say the max range would be somewhere around 125 yds.

[Limey]

My opinion for what it's worth.....


If...the target is shooting back at you....no matter what the range, I would have a go back....to keep their heads down and to put off their aim at worst..... and maybe get a hit at best....

If...the target is a game animal, in my opinion it deserves the utmost respect from you and you should not shoot at it unless you HONESTLY know you can get a clean killing hit on it.....a good sportsman will not shoot if there is any doubt in their mind....whereas a callous sportsman will take a shot when it's knowingly out of range or beyond their ability......

If...the target is a game animal and if you only wound it and you cannot get to it within one minute maximum to cleanly dispatch it and put it out of it's pain...then do not take the shot, it's too far or difficult for you.

If...the target is paper......keep moving back until you run out of range space or the bullets are landing before the target butt.....

Straight shootin',

Limey

[Ernest]

My opinion for what it's worth.....


If...the target is shooting back at you....no matter what the range, I would have a go back....to keep their heads down and to put off their aim at worst..... and maybe get a hit at best....

If...the target is a game animal, in my opinion it deserves the utmost respect from you and you should not shoot at it unless you HONESTLY know you can get a clean killing hit on it.....a good sportsman will not shoot if there is any doubt in their mind....whereas a callous sportsman will take a shot when it's knowingly out of range or beyond their ability......

If...the target is a game animal and if you only wound it and you cannot get to it within one minute maximum to cleanly dispatch it and put it out of it's pain...then do not take the shot, it's too far or difficult for you.

If...the target is paper......keep moving back until you run out of range space or the bullets are landing before the target butt.....

Straight shootin',

Limey

Beautifully said!
The answer to the question really is simple. Go to a range where you can shoot at different distances... Shoot standing at a 6" or smaller target. shoot and back up ten steps. As soon as you miss the 6" circle you have now reached your max off hand range . Start at that range and shoot kneeling and back up. When you miss you are at your max kneeling range. Then sitting then prone. Most people who actually do this and are honest with themselves are surprised at how short their standing and even kneeling range is with open sights..

On the other hand once you know those ranges and stick to them you will be very very effective with your rifle.

[JJC]

First I would like to know what a yankee dollar is? I know someone who can only practice 80 yards at paper. He is disapointed he can't practice "far". I asked him if he could hit a gallon jug offhand. After the odd look and I don't know I told him to try it, get away from the bench. Get smaller targets as you become more efficient. I agree with the posts above me.

[Larry Gibson]

1Shirt

Would bet a yankee dollar that if the truth were to be known, most deer in this country are shot at well under 100.

Several years back I was invlved in "sighting in days" before hunting season at 3 different ranges in two different parts of Oregon for several years. I conducted a survey of most of the shooters. Not all were nimrods BTW as some were actually very good shots and experienced hunters. I also ask the same question of deer hunters back east in my travels. I found thatprobably around 99.5% of big game (deer, elk, sheep, caribou and bear) were shot on the short side of 200 yards. I also found that 80% of that 99.5% were hot on the short side of 100 yards. I've killed a lot of big game over the years hunting the rain forests of the PNW, the rollong oak hills and orchards of the Willamette Valley, The high timer and alpine meadows of the Cascades, The big canyons of the the Hells canyon area, the High desert of the Owahee area, the tundra of Alsaka, the wide open space of the West in Montana, Wyoming and Colorado and I've had a scope off 3 or 4 power exactly 6 times to shoot farther than 200 yards.

I practice at long range a lot with my big game rifles so I can make a long shot if the conditions are right and I can't get any closer. I have my own self imposed max range limits based on "best conditions". I shorten them up if "best" isn't there. As you also mention long range shooting on varmints is another story. I also load most of my rifles to 2000 -2200 fps with cast bullets and my limit is 200 yards, maybe 250 with a scoped rifle and a heavier bullet. With my scoped M94AE has a 24" barrel so I can push 2200 fps with it with a Lyman 311041HP and it is good to 250 yards perhaps. With LeveRevolution it is a 300 yard deer rifle but I seriously doubt it will see a shot like that. Where I hunt with my M94s the ranges will be much closer.

Larry Gibson

[dnepr]

Absolutely positively depends on the shooting ability and the EYES of the shooter. With Ghost ring sights on one of my Marlins I can go to 150 yds, anything beyond that requires my old eyes to use a scope...........................

........................and I know there's some naysayers here but you would be AMAZED at how fast target aquisition and acuracy is up to 250 yds with just a 1.5-2 power scope.

NOW..........keep in mind you are talking to a guy who, 15 years ago would have told you to put a 10 power, 50mm objective scope on that rifle if you wanted to hit anything, BUT. I happened to read a book by Jeff Cooper and his Scout Rifle concept and thought I'd give it a try a number of years back. Marlin had just released the .450 Marlin cartridge (FAR superior to the old 45-70, right?) and Ashley Outdoors made a scout scope mount for that and I decided to give her a whirl with a Leupold 1.75 power IER scout scope.

To this day I still cannot believe how nice that carries and how fast target aquisition is for my eyes while carrying in the woods. I love that setup.

On the "old 45-70 OBSOLETE" cartridge? I've got four of them now and being a caster/reloader really don't see the advantage to the .450 Marlin anymore, I also can't bring myself to load them down with a scope and use Ghost Ring sights on them all because as a Northern Michigan hunter I realize most of my shots aren't going to be more than 100-150 yards anyways.

I still love to carry that .450 with the scout scope and in the swamp woods up here it works VERY well, as a matter of fact I put a Bushnell 1.5-4 power scope on my .444 Marlin and love that one too.

Open sights are fine for good eyes and young bodies and high power scopes are great for long range (over 200 yds..) shooting with a cartridge that can go that far --- but don't discount the use of a low power scope for short ranges, fat cartridges, and old eyes.

Just my .0001 cents worth

Art

I love the low power scopes for fast target aquisition there is a bushnell 1.75-5 on my .444 and it is deadly quick just ask the 2 deer in my freezer lol , I also shot my farthest deer with that scope on 1.75 , only 150 yards but I popped it right through the lungs right behind the shoulder and it went 25 yards . I am sold i will always put the lowest magnification scope I think I can get away with on my hunting rifles.

[shdwlkr]

I had several 30-30's and could shoot farther than the 150 yards that I voted for but I had them for years and learned how to use them and besides that is part of the fun of having a lever or for that matter any firearm is learning just what you can do with it. Doesn't matter what anyone else can do with it because you are not them.

[451whitworth]

Sight in so your bullet hits right over the front sight and then just center the sight below the target. The front sight will be bigger than the target but the center of the front sight is in the same place.
i shoot iron sights alot. all my rifles are sighted as KCSO describes. blotting out/obscuring the the target with the front sight is a huge limitation.

[jnovotny]

The 30/30 win has killed more game than any other caliber period. That said it shoots flatter than most folks give it credit. I have killed deer from as close as 10yds to as far as 300yds. It is all I have carried when pushing deer, till I started carrying my .44 mag. I've since retired my old marlin but still think of it fondly.

[Char-Gar]

All of this depends on the shooter and the type of sights. All "iron" sights are not the same. With a good click adjustable receiver sight, and the proper front sight, an experienced rifleman who knows how to judge the range, dope the wind, knows the bullet"s drop and how to adjust the sights, can easily kill a standing deer at 300 yards.

For the average hunter with barrel mounted open sight, 100 yards is far enough.

[XWrench3]

a big part of it is going to be you, and your eyesight. if you can hold the gun steady enough, preferably using some kind of steady like shooting stixs, or a tree, or SOMETHING. And you have sharp eyes, and you are using the right long range ammo (Hornady Leverevelotion) i say more than 200 yards is really pushing it, especially with factory open sights. if you put on a really good sight, like a williams reciever sight, that would be a great improvement over the factory ones.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Dnepr mentioned the secret ingredient, practice.buy a pack of paper picnic plates, take some stakes and a stapler and place the targets at ever 25yds (for a lever action opensighted 30/30, probably ever 50 yards for a scoped high velocity rifle). From using this system, I learn how far I can really hit targets and I also learn the trajectory of the load. At the end of the effective range with a slow moving bullet/boolit a small difference in range can make a huge difference in point of impact and it gets to the stage that a 25metre error in range estimation can cause a miss in an otherwise pertfect shot. If you are an ethical hunter, you know before you shoot if you can hit the target and you will not engage if there is any doubt.

Target shooting is different because it is no biggie if you are a bit off with a shot, a game animal is not going to escape to die a lingering painful death.

Anything much over 75 Yards would pull me up afield with an opensighted 30/30 and make me find a bit cover and stalk closer.

[44magLeo]

A 30-30 can reach out quite far. I like the paper plate as a target. put one out at 200 yards. Useing a 6 o'clock hold adjust the sights so the bullets hit the center of the plate. Use the 6 o'clock hold when you will hit the plate oute to about 225 yards, if the shot looks a bit longer lift the front bead up, as long as you keep the bead on the deer hits to 250-275 can be made.
Useing a good rear sight will vastly improve your shooting. Any of the reciever mounted peep sights will work. A tang sight is a bit better.
Most any 30-30 is capable of the accuracy to do this. To get the shooter ready takes practice.
Once you get the rifle sighted at the bench, put the paperplate up close, 25 yards, and practice shooting off hand. Practice untill you can hit the plate every time with quick shots.
When you can do this, add 25 yards, practice, add 25 yards. Keep adding 25 yards till you can't hit the plate everytime. back up one 25 yards step and thats your max range.
If you hunt from a stand and or can use a good rest the range can be farther out.
Practice with the positions you hunt from.
This practice is good for any hunting weapon, rifle, pistol, iron sights or scoped.
If range estimating is a problem, get a life sized target of a deer and put it 250 yards away where you can see it from your house. Look out to see the target. Look at the target with your rifle, Do this a lot. After awhile you will know what a deer looks like at 250 yards, by eye and with your sights or scope.