Toughening With Dross

[Good Cheer]

Good morning. :coffee:
Was melting down a bunch of "lead" pipe from a chemical plant installation, making front stuffer projectiles. Was getting a substantial amount metallic skim. So, saved it and used it to toughen up a pot of wheel weights to see what would happen.
The resulting stuff (whatever it is) is tough, poured well enough at high temp. Appeared to have a broad range (the smear zone) above solidus before it flows well. About 4% lighter than straight wheel weights. The bullets have that matt finish you see on the backside of aluminum foil, not like frosty wheel weights cast at high temp. Doesn't ping in the garage floor test, but nare do it thud.
Not a repeatable alloy but just an experiment someone might find useful for future reference.

[fryboy]

" Doesn't ping in the garage floor test, but nare do it thud."

that i find odd.... pray tell what does it sound like ? i've smelted alot more pipe than ww's , i usually try to separate the joints from the mass , some of the pipe i know has been almost pure and some is what i guess they call chemical lead , i've ran across much the same in lead sheeting , one batch of thin thin stuff is harder than a known batch of 70's ww , the bummer there is i wanted it for black powder boolits lolz [oops] like u i often save my dross from my BP pouring pot and put it in the next batch of smelt but it's usually lost in the alloy ( i never save more than about a tuna can's worth at a time ) sounds like ur pipe was the good stuff ! from the link

http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletAlloy.htm

" Lead Pipe. Seamless pipe made from lead and lead alloys is readily fabricated by extrusion. Because of its corrosion resistance and flexibility, lead pipes finds many uses in the chemical industry and in plumbing and water distribution system. Pipe for these applications is made from either chemical lead or 6% antimonial lead."

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

i've smelted alot more pipe than ww's , i usually try to separate the joints from the mass , some of the pipe i know has been almost pure and some is what i guess they call chemical lead

fryboy,
Are the joints always (or almost always) soft Lead, or could a plumber have used a solder alloy for a joint ?
Jon

[fryboy]

fryboy,
Are the joints always (or almost always) soft Lead, or could a plumber have used a solder alloy for a joint ?
Jon

on pipe the joints are usually a solder , hence why i take the time to separate , if they used pure lead for the joints it would melt the pipe in the process, tho undoubtably there were a few old plumbers with such skill i havent met one personally ,also if u note if u throw a piece of pipe with a joint in a empty smelting pot the joints melt first ,on cast iron pipe most the time it's soft lead but not always sad to say that it depended upon the plumber and straight lead was more common for this kind of joint, hope that helps ?

[Good Cheer]

" Doesn't ping in the garage floor test, but nare do it thud."

that i find odd.... pray tell what does it sound like ? i've smelted alot more pipe than ww's , i usually try to separate the joints from the mass , some of the pipe i know has been almost pure and some is what i guess they call chemical lead , i've ran across much the same in lead sheeting , one batch of thin thin stuff is harder than a known batch of 70's ww , the bummer there is i wanted it for black powder boolits lolz [oops] like u i often save my dross from my BP pouring pot and put it in the next batch of smelt but it's usually lost in the alloy ( i never save more than about a tuna can's worth at a time ) sounds like ur pipe was the good stuff ! from the link

http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletAlloy.htm

" Lead Pipe. Seamless pipe made from lead and lead alloys is readily fabricated by extrusion. Because of its corrosion resistance and flexibility, lead pipes finds many uses in the chemical industry and in plumbing and water distribution system. Pipe for these applications is made from either chemical lead or 6% antimonial lead."

Hey there.
The lead pipe melt is really soft. Like was said I saved the stuff that floated and used it to toughen a batch of WW. Melting the lead smelled like burning silicone rubber, really very tartly pungent.
Any way, the resulting WW and whatever turned out pretty tough. It doesn't "clink" like type metal. But, it's harder than the thunk you get from a hunk of dead soft lead. It's tougher than wheel weights for sure.
It's been a fun experiment but reckon I will stick with WW.

[fryboy]

i'm betting then that ur pipe had some antimony and that was the dross , tho i admit i'm surprised it didnt have a lil "ring" to it , sounds like it ought to make some great hi velocity boolits tho !!!!

[bhn22]

I'm still trying to understand the word "toughen". Do you mean you are using this metal to harden your alloy? Do you have any way of testing your alloys hardness? You have piqued my curiosity with your phraseology.

[sagacious]

'Tough' and 'hard' are not synonymous-- they're generally in opposition. The test used to determine toughness in this instance would be helpful.

One good way to toughen ww alloy is by the addition of pure (soft) lead. If this is what is being related, then the resulting alloy is likely tougher than 'standard' coww alloy. Adding Sb would generally have the opposite effect on toughness. Good luck.

[bhn22]

'Tough' and 'hard' are not synonymous-- they're generally in opposition. The test used to determine toughness in this instance would be helpful.

One good way to toughen ww alloy is by the addition of pure (soft) lead. If this is what is being related, then the resulting alloy is likely tougher than 'standard' coww alloy. Adding Sb would generally have the opposite effect on toughness. Good luck.

Exactly. Well said.

[Good Cheer]

If we were discussing steel / nickel /chrome alloys at the lab I would agree that the terms hardness and toughness could be in opposition. However, this is the backyard workshop and I am not engaged in pulling tensiles and breaking Charpys. In this case the toughness I am speaking of is the resistance to deformation, not a reduction of ductility, not the terminology taught in met101. Please substitute the word hardness for toughness if that serves your sensibilities. It's harder than wheel weights.

[sagacious]

It's harder than wheel weights.
Works for me.

[Good Cheer]

OMG, remember to go easy on the salt to avoid hardening the steak.

[Echo]

I'm still trying to understand the word "toughen". Do you mean you are using this metal to harden your alloy? Do you have any way of testing your alloys hardness? You have piqued my curiosity with your phraseology.

"Phraseology" - a word made famous by actor Paul Ford in "The Music man".

[fryboy]

OMG, remember to go easy on the salt to avoid hardening the steak.

umm what's the go easy part ? never ever salt good meat before or during cooking unless u care for something more resembling shoe leather ( even more so if well done ) of course boiling it doesnt count ;) do u recall for the longest time salt was bad for u ? and then low and behold a new study proved that it wasnt erm well at least until the next study and then it was bad again ..we should be in the study business !!!!