My 'new' Winchester 1886 range results (photos)

[KirkD]

Last week I picked up an original Winchester Model 1886, 45-70, received in the warehouse July 1, 1890. It's a nice rifle, with still a bit of case color here and there on the receiver, and a bore that is bright with strong rifling and zero pitting. Here's a photo of the old classic.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v497/3855Win/Desktop%20Photos/86-left.jpg

I want to develop a load for this rifle that has the same ballistics as the original BP load, which means 405 grain cast bullet leaving the barrel at around 1,300 fps or slightly less. I've been trying a few different powders and it looks like SR4759 and 2400 will be my two powders of choice. Both of them have similar pressure curves to BP for the same bullet and ballistics. Today I tried 2400 for the first time, putting 21 grains behind a plain base cast bullet of 405 grains. It gave 1,254 fps with an extreme spread of 77 fps. I'd like to boost this up another 40 fps but here's the results, 5 shots into 2 & 5/16" at 100 yards. I was shooting with open iron sights, so I'm sure the limiting factor is me, not the rifle. Here's a photo of the target ....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v497/3855Win/Range%20Results/86-target.jpg

My SR 4759 load put 4 shots into 1 & 1/4" at 100 yards, but the fifth was a flyer that went in about 2" low, so I don't know about that load. I've got some more loaded up and will try it again, just in case the flyer was me. This rifle is going Whitetail Deer hunting this fall, along with my original Winchester Model 1873 38-40.

[coyotebait]

Wow! She is beautiful. Thanks for the eye candy and good shooting by the way. I've had good luck with Trailboss in 45/70 for a plinker load, but it will not get the velocity you are looking for.

[cwskirmisher]

Excellent group - take out the high flyer and you've got a winner. I noticed your load data showed 'magnum' primer. Did you try standard primers? Wonder why you chose the hotter primer... a standard primer may tighten up the group even more.

[KirkD]

I will try a standard primer too. The only reason I used a mag primer is that I accidentally bought a brick of a thousand, and I'm trying to use them up.

[Win86]

Great find Kirk! Looks like that one will be a shooter no problem. So how the heck have you been? Still collecting 86's here as well but nothing new the past two years, not that I haven't looked!

Win86

[KirkD]

Win86, I've downsized my very modest collection a little bit in order to focus only on the Winchesters that I really like. It has taken a while to figure it out, but when enough old Winchesters come and go, I found that some really had extra appeal to me. This old '86 is one of them.

[9.3X62AL]

That is a BEAUTIFUL early-series example, Kirk!

One other route to try involves the use of IMR/H-4198 powder, per Ross Seyfried. Take the nominal black powder charge weight--in this case, 70 grains--and mulitply by 0.4, giving a charge weight with the 4198s of 28.0 grains. In my Ruger #1, this provides 1275-1300 FPS with the Lee 405 grain casting, and nice round 1.5"-1.75" groups at 100 yards with aperture iron sights.

This formula has borne out similar results in the 25-20, 32-20, and 44-40 rifles I own--giving vintage ballistics and at least decent accuracy.

[Jon K]

Nice.............Old guns have a lot of history, and whatsmore CHARACTOR! New guns are OK, but nothing like a nice old levergun, or singleshot.

Jon

[KirkD]

9.3x62AL, I've only tried one load of IMR 4198 so far (30 grains with 1 TP filler) and it was decent, but a little too fast (over 1,400 fps) for me. 28 grains without TP might be closer to what I'm looking for and I'd like to see what it gives by way of accuracy.

[Win86]

4198 seldom shoots tight groups for me , the one exception being the Trapdoor but only when loading 500 grain bullets while the 405's prefer Unique. Maybe it's my paticular powder Lot as it is the older long cut powder made before Short Cut came around. For many though, 4198 works as a good substitute for Black when applying the 40% formula. When loading my two old Trapdoors, mostly with 405's, Unique wins the accuracy tests but in all early 86's I find 5744 to give better accuracy and lower SD for all loads I shoot than the other two powders. My 45 rifle bullets are 300, 316, 350, 405 and 500 grain all sized to .459 -
If the Pic shows ok; Montana PD taken with 40-65 Win model 86 @ 125yds. Load: 260 gr. FP over 24.5gr 5744 with1/4 square TP and Win Mag primer.

Win86

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v442/ricnelson/pd-86.jpg

[Canuck Bob]

Another sweet original, nice find Kirk.

Shooting is good too, specially for an early range trip!

[Just Duke]

Nice shooting

[northmn]

I have used the 322 Gould HP on deer with good results. They were black Powder loads at about 1400 fps (I chronographed them). It is still an original load and popular in its day for the 45-70. Enjoy the rifle.

DP

[Jeff H]

Absolutely beautiful rifle.

I have always thought the '86 was the best looking levergun ever made.
I have only ever handled ONE, and I was very poor at that time. It was for sale and the $1300 it brought was more than a month's wages at that time.
Believe me, if I'd had something worth that to sell at the time, I would have.

Nice shooting too!

[JesterGrin_1]

Nice old Rifle. But what I feel is the best part of the whole deal as the Ole Rifle has a new owner that will use it and take care of it so it can be passed down for others to enjoy.

[KirkD]

I only have a modest collection of old Winchesters, but I regard this '86 as the crown jewel of my small collection. I get a great deal of enjoyment from this old rifle, even just to admire it hanging on the wall.

[Olevern]

congrats on a beautiful find

[T-Bird]

I shoot 29 gr IMR 4198 with dacron filler for about 1350fps from my Marlin 45/70 1895CB for around 2'' @100 with the Ly330 "gould" hp mentioned above. I get good groups with cast in 30/30, 35Rem, 30/06, 45/70 all with IMR 4198 and dacron filler. I try to hit the 1800ish fps area in all of these( except 45/70). I have stopped using other powders for cast in my rifles. Simplicity with quality RULES! T-Bird

[KirkD]

IMR 4198 is a good powder.

[KCSO]

What's this 2400 stuff? Run out of real powder?

Nice gun and still a good shooter, that would be one to drop a buffalo with!

[northmn]

I duplicate black powder loads with black powder. 777 is also a fairly good cartridge powder and a little easier to clean up. Just thought I would throw that out. The Lyman 420 grain mold and the 330 grain HP worked very well for me with BP or 777.

DP