Me bad. Me shoot Glock with CB...

[Old Ironsights]

Ok, not so bad. I have a lead-bullet-friendly aftermarket barrel. [smilie=1:

OTOH, since I have one, it might just be time to do some WW loads.

Anybody cast 180s for a .40/10mm?

What are your experiences?

[KCSO]

Yep, and they shoot great.

[xpshooter]

I guess that would make me worse, because I tried moly coated cast bullets in my 24c only shot up what I purchased and never again. It really smoked the front sight and the front lens of the pro-point that I had mounted. Lots of barrel leading, took a while to get it all out. I might end up getting an aftermarkat barrel also if I get hooked into this casting thing.

[Old Ironsights]

Yep, and they shoot great.
What mold/alloy are you using?

[Old Ironsights]

I guess that would make me worse, because I tried moly coated cast bullets in my 24c only shot up what I purchased and never again. It really smoked the front sight and the front lens of the pro-point that I had mounted. Lots of barrel leading, took a while to get it all out. I might end up getting an aftermarkat barrel also if I get hooked into this casting thing.

You are lucky you didn't blow up the gun. Glock barrels with hex rifling lead so quickly that they start having major pressure issues.

My suggestion is to get a Lone Wolf Distributers barrel. Yes, there are some excellent Bar So barrels out there, but why spend $350 when $90 works just great? (oh... do NOT buy a Federal Arms barrel. My armorer can't say enough bad about them. The others are OK by him, but he hates the Federals.)

http://lonewolfdist.com/products.asp?prod=4&curRecIdx=101#Lone%20Wolf

Nice people to work with too.

[slughammer]

My wife just finished shooting some 180gr cast in the Glock 35. 4.3 of WST and a Federal primer had it barking at 900fps. These boolits were commercial cast and double lubed. The original lube was a real thin coat of some sort of carnauba & teflon tumble lube, but it leaded the Glock barrel badly. I ran them thru the sizer luber and added some Blue Angle to the empty lube groove and now there is no leading. Seems I'm going to lighten the load down and just let this be my wife's gun; much more capacity than a revolver and much simpler than handing her a 1911. The Glock ergonomics and me are not getting along, I consider it a class "A" turd launcher.

I'm going to try the Lee 180 with blue angle and 3.8gr WST. Press is set for 45 acp right now though, I'll be switching over to 40 after I lay in a supply of 45s.

And NO, I don't have a problem with case support. It's easy to take a Glock barrel out and drop a loaded round into it; when I do this to my Glock barrel, it's plain to see there is plenty of chamber support. Maybe the older guns were cut different or maybe the compacts are different.

Old Ironsights, could you do a side by side comparison of case support with your barrels?

[swheeler]

Myths and old wives tales passed down from xspurt to xspurt"You are lucky you didn't blow up the gun. Glock barrels with hex rifling lead so quickly that they start having major pressure issues"
Make it a 45, polygonal rifled barrel, NO lead more accurate than any factory loads ever tried, never has leaded with any type lube 50/50, LSM and now Lars' C Red

Somebody forgot to tell this gun it couldn't shoot lead, they must have messed up when they built it, bad barrel?

[StarMetal]

As of recent Glock redesigned their chambers and there is now more cartridge support then previous earlier models.

Joe

[Old Ironsights]

Mine is a 2002 EZB. (G27)

I don't know from wives tales, but my Glock trained Aromrer insists on no Lead in Glock barrels. He has no trouble with us dropping in after markets, but shoot lead in a factory barrel and he will be all over you.

According to him - and a Glock manual he has - GLock barrels have high tolerance chambers and lore tolerance bores. Coupled with the hex rifling that means higher bore pressures after the relatively quick leading.

As an Armorer he has very few bugaboos about us tweaking our guns, but Lead in a Glock barrel is a biggie.

[lefty_red]

I use LEE 175gr TLs of WW and I tl them with ALOX/Turtle Wax, Liquid. I've shoot about three hundred rounds in one shooting and lead is minmum.

LWD or STORM LAKE barrels are both great. I have them on all of my GLOCKs. The stainless steel realy sets off the polymer frame.

BTW, the aftermarket barrels are pretty tight and I had to polish them and really set my bullets short to get them to feed 100%. Also +1 one usign the LEE FCD! Give them a good hard crimping!

Jerry

[Old Ironsights]

I hear good things about Storm Lake too, but folks say the quality of LWD is every bit as good and I was able to get a 9/16x24 threaded for the cost of a standard.

What's not to like?

[swheeler]

After a couple hours and 4-5 hundred rounds(many, many times), accuracy still good, no lead, I think I'm safe. Now if I would have read your post before shooting I'm sure I would have blown the gun up! Infact just a couple weeks ago, an xspurt, about 25 years old, warned me about just this thing and I quote" they have hammer forged barrels, and you can't shoot lead in a hammer forged barrel, I read it on tthe internet" HIS WORDS NOT MINE. I went to the vehicle and got another ammo can out, started shooting at an accelerated pace, I did notice he moved way down from me tho?
I guess I will have to stop shooting lead in the Remington , Ruger and other rifles with hammer forged barrels! Please read above before posting about it doesn't have anything to do with hammer forged(supposed to be polygonal rifled) the part HIS WORDS
I'm not an xspurt or an armorer- thought I would make that clear- but by golly I meet a LOT of them at the range!

[SharpsShooter]

OH NO! Hammer forged is bad[smilie=1: I guess we will have to go back to wire wrapped damascus and save ourselves:mrgreen:

What planet do these people fall off of??

SS

[swheeler]

SS; we used to call it talking out of both sides of their mouth!

[StarMetal]

I posted this before too. HK uses what they call polygonal bores. Glock doesn't call theirs that. The small bores have hexagonal bores and the large bore have octagonal bores. I have a HK 45 and a Glock 45 so I pushed a slug through both of them, the rifling is different between the two. My HK is a semi auto submachinegun and I've put alot of cast through it. Nary a problem...ditto the Glock 45.

Joe

[swheeler]

Joe; you and me will meet sometime and see who has the most fingers left, I got one good eye left- almost!

[slughammer]

As of recent Glock redesigned their chambers and there is now more cartridge support then previous earlier models.

Joe

Joe, I hope one of the multi-barrel fellows would be so kind to take a side by side picture of barrels with cases in the chambers.

I suspect that if they looked at the differences of the chambers on the barrels they took out and the ones they spent money on they may not find any substantial difference.

[Old Ironsights]

Note especially JT's comments. With barrels so cheap, why worry about hard to clean/potentially dangerous leading? Get a standard rifled barrel for CBs and use your factory one for Carry Bullets.

------------------------------------
http://www.glockfaq.com/reloading.htm

Can I shoot lead bullets in my Glock?

This has been debated on rec.guns and GlockTalk about 10,000 times. There are basically 2 schools of thought:

School #1: Don't Do It
Glock barrels use special polygonal rifling not found in most handguns. This rifling is one of the main reasons Glocks are extremely accurate guns. However, the same rifling can cause a high degree of leading when not using jacketed bullets. In other words some lead from the bullet sticks to the inside of the barrel when it is fired. Too much leading can quickly lead to high pressures which can cause the barrel and/or gun to break or even explode. Most people who weigh in on this subject fall into this category including Glock Inc.

School #2: Don't Worry About It
If you clean your barrel well and do it every time you shoot there will be no significant leading. Many, many people use lead bullets almost exclusively in their Glocks and do not have any problems whatsoever.

Additional notes from Hoss:
Not all lead is created equally. You can shoot lead in your Glock (probably) but you should use a hard lead from a reputable manufacturer. The homemade lead bullets made from wheel weights and other recycled lead should be avoided! Just becuase one type of lead bullet and load shoot fine in one glock does not mean it will be safe in others. Each barrel is different and must be carefully checked when first using lead.

Additional notes from JT:
You *can* shoot lead in a polygonal barrel, as many Glocksters do. But you need to be aware of some potential dangers in using lead bullets, not to mention voiding your Glock warranty if you use non-factory ammo.

First, if you decide to use lead bullets, use hardcast bullets at medium velocities for best results. This will reduce potential leading of the bore. Theoretically, polygonal rifling allows the bullet to seal the gases better than traditional land and groove rifling, thereby increasing velocities but also increasing potential problems with bore-leading-induced pressure spikes. Lead particles from the bullets have no where to hide in polygonal rifling as in the lands and grooves of conventional rifling and with better bullet-to-bore sealing, serious pressure spikes can develop when the bore is fouled.

However, note that some dismiss the purported velocity increases with polygonal rifling. Mike Orrick (GlockTalk's "BrokenArrows") has pointed out that his chronographed results of identical loads in conventionally-rifled barrels versus same-length polygonal barrels yielded higher velocities in some of the conventionally-rifled barrels.

Secondly, absolutely get all the lead out after at least every 200 rounds to avoid lead buildup, pressure spikes and potential corresponding kBs! With the tighter seal of the bullet, pressures can increase significantly in polygonal barrels. There have even been reports of Ranier-type bullets shedding bits of copper jacket in polygonal barrels, causing the same pressure spikes that are caused by excessive leading. Just be sure to use hard-cast lead bullets or good-quality jacketed bullets and keep the velocities down to earth.

Thirdly, polygonal rifling doesn't get the same grip on the bullet as conventional rifling. This may affect accuracy with some loads, especially hot ones. Even with using copper-jacketed bullets, some LEAs have reportedly banned the use of polygonal barrels in duty guns because of the potential difficulty in forensically identifying the rifling patterns on a bullet shot from a polygonal barrel. IOW, it's sometimes impossible to identify which polygonal barrel a particular bullet was shot from. Who shot whom?

Another recommendation is to moly-coat your lead bullets and/or treat your barrel with one of the spaceage lubricants, such as TW25B spray from Kleen-Bore. This will definitely help the cleaning process and may even increase velocities slightly and help with accuracy.

Last, but not least, most experts recommend getting a conventionally-rifled barrel from replacement barrelmakers such as Jarvis or Bar-Sto if you shoot a lot of lead. These barrels generally offer more case support than stock Glock barrels as a bonus. Use your replacement barrel for practice and the stock barrel for carry.

http://www.glockfaq.com/reloading.htm

[Old Ironsights]

Joe, I hope one of the multi-barrel fellows would be so kind to take a side by side picture of barrels with cases in the chambers.

I suspect that if they looked at the differences of the chambers on the barrels they took out and the ones they spent money on they may not find any substantial difference.

I'll do that, though I didn't buy it forthe chamber, I bought mine for the rifling & the threads.

[StarMetal]

Old Ironsights,

I guess what I posted went unheeded. GLOCK HAS CHANGED ALL THE CHAMBERS ON THEIR CURRENT GUNS. So that statement that aftermarkets barrels support the cartridge better just might not be true anymore.

When HK came out with their 91 in 308 (actually 7.62 Nato) it had polygonal rifling. Not long after that HK went to regular rifling claiming that the polygonal rifle increased pressures and they didn't want any incidents caused by that.

I don't see ANY evidence that polygonal rifling doesn't grip the bullet good enough in hot or high velocity loads.

Joe

[Oldfeller]

Someone ought to generate a sticky on this one. Yes, you can shoot lead out of a Glock. Many of us do this simple task, and we do it safely and accurately.

One item to always consider in cleaning your Glock lives completely apart from the barrel and the end of chamber forcing cone.

This overlooked area is the face of the slide where the firing pin comes from and where the ejector hook lives. Powder residues and cast bullet lube residues combine on this surface to make a sticky hard "paste" that builds up over dozens and hundreds of rounds as this surface never looks "leaded", just dirty. (part of this comes from the myth that Glocks never have to be cleaned -- now ain't that some real stupid urban mythology) This sticky slide face case head engagement surface can rob energy from your Glock's free slide motion and that final little momentum-driven closure/lock vertical motion.

Glocks can fire ever so slightly out of battery (sorry, Glock Perfection isn't perfect). A sticky sliding surface that the case head has to run up (and squeeze the case rim/groove up under a fouled ejector hook) can completely sap the return energy and leave you just short of a full lock up.

Hey, just clean it !!!

Clean it religiously after every shooting session and you won't get the very visible engagement scarring that so clearly says "I fired my pistol partially out of battery, see my edge peening and ding marks on the top edge of my slide engagement surface ....."


Oldfeller

[StarMetal]

Pictures of two slugs run through a Glock 45 acp barrel and a HK 45 acp barrel. First on is the Glock. Notice that there are distinct land grooves on the bullet and they appear to have rounded tops. Secon bullet HK. Notice the land marks seem almost flat. Definately different rifling between the two.

Joe

[slughammer]

Old Ironsights,
I guess what I posted went unheeded. GLOCK HAS CHANGED ALL THE CHAMBERS ON THEIR CURRENT GUNS. So that statement that aftermarkets barrels support the cartridge better just might not be true anymore.


We're heeding it plenty. Taking side by side pictures and posting them on the internet is a good way to show it.

[swheeler]

I stand corrected, should have read "octagonal" for 45/21 anyway., but I had to go look., Joe had it right.I think Oldfeller has the real answer to the problem, not rifling form as many claim. But who knows, I'm not a "pistolero" anyway, I feel lucky when I get the right end poinrted downrange.

[Stray Round]

According to this thread we all need to watch out for:

Hammer forged barrels
Glock barrels
Bullets from cast wheel weights

Now I read a warning on a box of ammo not to shoot in confined areas and the fumes from cleaning solvent come to find out is dangerous too!

Plus a gooberment study says that I'm more likely to be shot by my own gun by someone in my home than some nasty fellow off the street.

I think its time to stop shooting all together and start the popular hobby of clubbing a little white ball in a cowfield.


Give me one reason that rifling with rounded edges (polygonal/hexagonal) should be dangerous whereas riflling with sharp edges on the sides (ballard/cut) is absolutely safe with a lead bullet.

A "armourer" who goes to a gun manufacturers coarse isn't any smarter than a guy who just stayed overnight at a Holiday Inn. From my experience with shooting cast through Glock barrels, mostly 9mm, I think it's safe they lead less than any barrel I've shot.

Unless it is different now, Beretta tells not to shoot lead in their guns.

Gotta go and learn how to club one of those little balls. I know why a fella needs alot of guns but why do those fellas need a whole sack of clubs? I guess there's a lot to learn about this "sport" but at least I'll be safer.

[swheeler]

SR; instead of clubs, just use the Glock. You won't have to worry about too many people on the course.

[Lloyd Smale]

Ive shot thousands of cast bullets in glocks without troubles.

[swheeler]

Well Llyod, you are going to blow your gun up and fingers off, good thing your toes will be left so you can count.

[KYCaster]

Glocks can fire ever so slightly out of battery (sorry, Glock Perfection isn't perfect). A sticky sliding surface that the case head has to run up (and squeeze the case rim/groove up under a fouled ejector hook) can completely sap the return energy and leave you just short of a full lock up.
Oldfeller


I think Oldfeller has the right answer. Not only the breachface, but lube/lead buildup in the chamber at the case mouth can stop the slide from going completely into battery. Shouldn't be a big problem but tolerance stacking plus a generous chamber and lack of web support can add up to a bad situation.

I've also found that polygon barrels generaly like oversized boolits. Instead of the usual .356 some may like .358 or even .359 for best accuracy and least leading.

Jerry

[StarMetal]

Well, when old Joe cleans his guns, he cleans everything that needs cleaning.

My Glock 45 acp likes the .452 bullets I feet it, which aren't oversized. The darn think shoots almost as good as a Colt Gold Cup.

Joe

[Old Ironsights]

Old Ironsights,

I guess what I posted went unheeded. GLOCK HAS CHANGED ALL THE CHAMBERS ON THEIR CURRENT GUNS. So that statement that aftermarkets barrels support the cartridge better just might not be true anymore.

When HK came out with their 91 in 308 (actually 7.62 Nato) it had polygonal rifling. Not long after that HK went to regular rifling claiming that the polygonal rifle increased pressures and they didn't want any incidents caused by that.

I don't see ANY evidence that polygonal rifling doesn't grip the bullet good enough in hot or high velocity loads.

Joe:confused: I saw your post and never claimed that aftermarket barrels supported the chamber better than factory barrels. Mine is a 2002 vintage, but, again, it wasn't the chamber thing that I was warned about. It was Leading.

The whole point of this thread was to say (A) I have a barrel approved by my Certified Glock Armorer for cast boolits, and (B) to ask what moulds/boolits in .40/10mm people have found work well in their Glocks (preferably with aftermarket barrels).

I was reiterating the Glock Barrel vs Cast information as given to me by the guy who has "fix-it" rights to my gun and the certification to back it up. That's all.

I intend to continue to shoot cast from my Glock, just not with the factory barrel.

That's really all.

[StarMetal]

Glock armorers are puppets that Glock pulls the strings to make them say what the company wants and that is anything to discourage folks from doing ANYTHING that might them end up in a legal battle. Makes me wonder what if something castrostrophic happened to your gun while it had the aftermarket barrel in it, what Glock would say. I can't imagine a gun company recommending another barrel in their gun and then standing behind it. In their warranty they say they only stand behind factory ammo and no reloads.

A gun company is never going to tell you to do anything other then shoot approved factory ammo.

Joe

[StarMetal]

Glock armorers are puppets that Glock pulls the strings to make them say what the company wants and that is anything to discourage folks from doing ANYTHING that might them end up in a legal battle. Makes me wonder what if something castrostrophic happened to your gun while it had the aftermarket barrel in it, what Glock would say. I can't imagine a gun company recommending another barrel in their gun and then standing behind it. In their warranty they say they only stand behind factory ammo and no reloads.

Joe

[NickSS]

I have a glock 17 that I shoot cast bullets in that I have not sean any leading. The bullet is a Lee 120 gr TC lubed with 50-50 and the powder is Red Dot 5.5 gr. The pistol cycles fine and shoots as accurately as does my jacketed loads so I really do not see what the problem is that everyone is talking about.

[JRR]

Most all the Glock blowups have been with 40 S@W, and a few with 45ACP. The 9 mm and 40 barrels are the same diameter. Since the hole is wider on the 40, there is less metal for throating a smooth entrance and it therefore cuts into the support of the case. The same is true of the 10 mm and 45 ACP. The 45 is a low pressure round that is less sensitive to full case support. Just look at a 1911.

I also have shot thousands of cast 40 in a Glock 22 and 23. Aftermarket barrels with tighter chambers plus cleaning after every range session. No problem in years of shooting.

[lar45]

I was looking at a Baby Eagle in 45acp the other day. It seemed to have a similar rifleing. Anyone have any experience with them? Anybody know how they hold up to hot loads?

TIA.

[Bigjohn]

G'day from downunder,

I have been shooting with my present club for 23 years and in that time I have seen Glocks in various calibres come and go.

Back in recent history, (when our Police forces trusted us) we had several members with 9mm, .40 S&W and .45 ACP Glocks. All of these, which included some of the early models, digested "Hard" cast boolits. Not one of them had any problems. I loaded for two .40 S&W Glocks in the time and still have some of the cases on hand which display no signs of pressure.

Since the day our Guberment decided that we the people could not be trusted with calibre such above .38 (unless shooting an approved sport) most of our members bought 9mm Glocks to replace those they had to hand in.

Annually, I see many shooters from other clubs with 9mm Glocks competing using "Hard" cast boolits; some have changed barrels while others still use the factory barrel. I believe that inexcess of 100K rounds of Cast boolit ammo are fired through Glocks here in Oz annually and I have not heard of any problems.

The load which I use is 3.1grs of ADI/AS50 fired by a Federal #100 Small pistol primer, behind a 135gr RN Hard cast Boolit moly lubed.

I have loaded approximately 10K rounds of this since 2004 and the only problem was the ocassional failure to feed due to crud. Not all but some of these rounds have been fired through a Glock or two.

I have not seen any of the published warnings regarding the use of cast boolits in glocks so I can not pass comment on these. I would caution anyone shooting cast to use great care with their reloading and produce quality rather than quantity for their pistols.

Take care and stay safe,

John.

[Poohgyrr]

:confused:

FWIW, I've been shooting Western Nevada 175 gr swc's over a max load of AA7 & WW standard primers in WW, Federal, and Starline brass, in my G23 since I bought it in 1991.

This pistol & load actually seems to lead less than my S&W wheelguns (.38/357/44) and .40 Hi Powers. The factory Glock barrels clean up very easy for me. I do have to use a LEE FCD though when I'm handloading for the Glocks.

I'm about out of Western Nevada's, and my favorite local discount store closed & moved to a friendlier state. :(

This G23 is as accurate for me as my stock barreled .40 Hi Power (Practical), but not as accurate as my Barsto barreled .40 HP (MKIII). The G23 & G35 I've been shooting need the LEE FCD to be reliable. Same for the G24 I sold to buy something else. The Hi Powers have feed every round I've used, period. :Fire:

Umm, I'm also one of those factory trained armorers, & have asked about this in every recertification class. The "factory guys" who train us realize that many folks do fine with cast, but the Company says no reloads and no lead. Sometimes it's good common sense not to speak against the Boss, especially on Company time & when you have a cool job.

On a related note, I remember real well, when one specific rangemaster told us not to ever use lead boolits in Sig P226's, because the lead wears out the barrels faster than jacketed bullets. He said that several times, meant it, had no other explanation for telling us not to use lead bullets, and would not discuss it any further... I did have somewhat of a problem with this. :twisted: His partner is an old duck hunter who wouldn't speak against him, but does believe that steel shot seems harder on shotguns than lead shot..... [smilie=1: