577bpe &wc860?

[SharpsShooter]

I have friend with a 577BPE (3 inch) that wants to shoot smokeless powder under a 650grain boolit. Is 860 a good choice for this combo? I shoot BP and this white powder is unfamiliar ground so I defer to you experts.

Thanks

SS

[wiljen]

The 577 NE 3" holds roughly 150gr of 860 when loaded with that size slug and will yield a hair under 1000fps with it. I'd say it will not work very well in that role as pressure is too low and unburnt garbage is likely to rain from the barrel and lockwork. This based on my attempts to use it in the 458 Lott.

I would give Accurate 2495 a try. 100gr behind that slug should give about 1350fps with less than 22,000 PSI so well within BP levels. A load of 110-115gr of IMR 4831 would also be a good one at about the same pressure/velocity level.

[elk hunter]

SharpsShooter,

Your friend needs to buy a copy of "Shooting the British Double Rifle" by Graeme Wright. It's easily located on the net. Another good source of information is the "Double Gun Journal".

There is a lot of art as well as science involved in shooting BPE rifles, especially doubles. It would be very easy to damage or destroy a nice piece by using inappropriate powders or having unrealistic expectations for velocity.

The original loads for the .577 3" BPE was 167 grains of Black Powder, almost always Curtis & Harvey #6, and either a 570 grain at 1725 FPS or 610 grain lead bullet at 1650 FPS. Your friends gun, if it's a double, may or may not regulate with a 650 grain bullet at about 1600 FPS. Trying to get more velocity than 1600 FPS with a 650 grain bullet may push the gun over its pressure limit depending on the powder he uses. If it's a double and the barrels are shooting apart you need to increase velocity, if crossing drop the velocity. If the barrel/s has Henry rifling they like paper patch bullets. Grooved lubricated bullets should be quite hard, as in lino-type or water quenched wheel weights. In either case they will probably need to be at least .588 diameter maybe as big as .590 rather than .585 which is the common size for Nitro guns.


Good luck to your friend.

[AkMike]

Elk Hunter nailed it 100 % with his answer!

[SharpsShooter]

Thanks guys. It is for a Ballard High Wall in 577 BPE that I wish I owned.

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r255/SharpsShooter_photos/BallardHighWallin577BPE.jpg

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r255/SharpsShooter_photos/BallardHighWallin577BPE2.jpg

SS

[elk hunter]

I foresee some very exciting or energetic times in your friends future. If the rifle doesn't weigh at least 11 pounds a full house 577 BPE load will be interesting to say the least.

Since I don't know the gun I would start low and work up slowly.

I'd start with Federal 215 primer and 60 grains of 4198 with about 12 grains of dacron in the case to hold the powder against the primer to ensure ignition and top it off with that 650 grain cast bullet. Since this is a modern barrel I'd size the bullet to .585 or .586. Max load calculates as 66.8 grains of 4198 with a 610 grain bullet. You might get that high, but I'd be careful.

Wright shows loads as high as 78 grains of 4198 with a 650 bullet for 1840 FPS. I don't believe I would shoot that in my 577 as it is way above the original speed for that round. It certainly would be energetic to say the least.

[SharpsShooter]

EH

He definitely wants to stay in the realm of Black Powder pressure. I am told that Graeme Wright's pressure tests on the .577 3" BPE demonstrated that he could duplicate the ballistics of the original nitro-for-black factory load (pressure of 10 tons) at only 7.8 tons pressure using Varget and 8.9 tons using H4198 starting with 40-45% of BP charge weight. BTW.375" 24 gauge felt wads were used between the powder & ball.

IIRC the rifle is 12# or thereabouts. Recoil should be .........brisk

SS

[elk hunter]

I can truthfully say that I enjoy shooting my Cogswell & Harrison 577 double, but it's very easy to have too much fun very quickly. Any 577 either BPE or Nitro is a serious rifle.

I will stick with my earlier statement about starting low at 60 grains of 4198 and working up. If your friends rifle weighs 12 pounds the recoil will be very manageable and not unpleasant, but when you pull the trigger you will know something important just happened and you were directly involved. I tell my friends that refuse to shoot mine that, "it doesn't kick, it just kisses you".

Tell your friend for me, "welcome to the mens section of the shooting sports" and to have fun and enjoy his new baby.

Regards,

Elk Hunter