44 special shotshells

[Brother_Love]

I know about the Speer capsules but I do not like them. Seems like I saw somewhere-sometime about loading our own shotshells in brass cases with wadding under the shot and a piece of wadding that is crimped on top.

Anyone else remember this or was it all a dream?

Thanks, Malcolm

[Rocky Raab]

It's what they did before the capsules were invented. Kinda like manual typewriters before 'pooters.

The problems are: severe lack of case volume limits shot load; pressures can spike due to zero airspace; shot touches the rifling and spins up, creating doughnut patterns; and, whatever you use as wads also deflect pellets and ruins the pattern.

Friend, I think I have those shot capsules mastered. Tell me what you don't like about them and I'll give you a tip to solve it.

[WARD O]

You might be able to use either 44 mag or 444 brass cut down. Just need it to fit into the cylinder when it is loaded. Perhaps running it into a 41 mag seat or size die just far enough to put a shoulder on it so it chambers. Pick a load from Speer loads for the shot cups, put a card wad or two depending on thickness over the powder, put another wad over the shot and glue or figure out a crimp to close.

I believe that all pistol shot loads spin from the rifling and end up with doughnut shaped patterns - it one of the things that limit the range.

I used the above technique for making 41 mag shot loads from 30-30 brass many years ago and they served well.

It's fun to play with and doesn't cost much.

Ward

[Rocky Raab]

Not all, Ward. Those slick capsules slide a ways before they start to spin. That means that the shorter the barrel, the better they pattern, because they spin up less, or not at all. It also helps to load for less velocity. Milder loads don't deform the capsules into the rifling as much, allowing even more slipping; they also spin slower if they do spin (spin rate being a function of both the twist and the velocity).

[Brother_Love]

Thanks for the help, I will stick with the capsules. I was just looking for a cheaper way and a way to build my own. I was concerned about the compression of the powder under a wad w/ homemade loads.
Malcolm

[MakeMineA10mm]

This question comes up quite often here, but under different guises. If you do a search with the words "shot load" and leave out caliber, etc., you'll get lots of reading in.

I've made shot loads for many calibers, and I've used both the Speer shot capsules and hand-made ("old-fashioned") shot loads in many variations. Here's my take:

My mentor showed me the easiest and least-effective way to make them:
1. Resize, re-prime, powder charge with a small load of fast powder (I've used everything from Red Dot to Unique, and currently use W231), and bell mouth.
2. Use a bell-mouthing die one-caliber smaller than the round you're loading and adjust it so the stem goes way down into the case.
3. Put a Gas Check into the case and "seat" it by shoving it down atop the powder with that smaller-caliber seating stem.
4. Fill case with shot, leaving about 1/16" of the case empty at the mouth. (The smaller the shot the better - don't even bother with 44 Spls. if you're using anything bigger than #9 shot.)
5. Turn a gas check over (so it is "cup-down") and seat it into the case mouth.
6. Run case into crimp die and put a moderate crimp on the mouth. Too heavy a crimp will tip the top gas check.

Now, I found that 303 British brass, cut with a tubing cutter or cross-cut saw to the length of the cylinder allows you to get a LOT more shot into a 44 Spl/Mag chamber. However, we can't use Gas Checks anymore, because they can't be seated with the new "neck/bullet" area of the case (that fills into the chamber throat area). So, I use sandwhich board from the hobby shop. (It's basically two pieces of poster board with a thin piece of styrofoam in the middle.) I've found it works extremely well, can be curled to go through the neck portion and seems to cushion the shot slightly and is heavy enough to not allow burn through by the powder charge. Here's some 10mm Auto shot rounds I've made, and it kind-of shows the various steps/stages, and it shows the raw materials:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=180&pictureid=1039

[sundog]

Brother, is this what you are looking for???

http://www.castbullet.com/reload/44shot.htm

they work great in 45 Colt also. No cost other than the primer, a little powder, and a used heavy weight styrofoam plate - the one you had bar-b-ques ribs and tater salad and fried oker on at the picnic...

[Rocky Raab]

Malcolm, here are the tricks I've learned about shot capsules:

Use the smallest shot you can find. I use 9s for most loads. You can buy #12 shot, but the five-pound bag will last you and three friends for decades. You have to hand-pack the capsules, vibrating them and dribbling in the last few pellets with your fingers. Don't pack them so tightly that the plug doesn't firmly snap into place, though.

Size one case and see if the capsule will slide in with only finger pressure. You may have to load unsized cases with some brass makes - and do check that they re-chamber!

Expand/bell cases only a bare minimum. You'll be finger-seating the capsules, so you don't need a lot of belling.

Load light. The suggested charges give 1,000 fps or so. That's MUCH too hot for good patterns. Cut the suggested charge by 10% for better results.

Contrary to the instructions, do NOT crimp into the capsules. You'll just cut them. Adjust the crimper to just remove any belling, leaving a straight case mouth or VERY slight inward turn. Instead of crimp, run an extremely small bead of super glue around the case mouth and capsule wall. Stand loaded rounds with capsules up until thoroughly dry - at least an hour.

Shoot in the shortest barrel handgun you have. The shorter the barrel, the less time the capsule has to start spinning as it slides across the lands. Figure one inch of pattern spread for every foot of range; i.e. at ten feet the pattern will be ten inches across. (That's why small shot is necessary - the spaces between pellets get too large to hit anything with larger shot.)

I load only one or two shot loads in a cylinder. If you load more (or if you shoot the first one up and reload that chamber) check the remaining shot loads to make sure the capsules don't creep forward under recoil. If they do, re-seat with your fingers and load/shoot them singly.

[WARD O]

Rocky Raab
I can see that the capsules will slide a bit and that makes good sense to use a very short barreled gun. So if you are carrying the gun primarily for shot loads your short barrel idea would be ideal.

Perhaps some are carrying the gun for other reasons and would like to slip in a "grouse" load while deer hunting so we are using a longer barrel. My method has served me well and has accounted for small game for the table.

This topic is just fun to play with and there is "more than one way to skin the proverbial cat."

Ward

[Rocky Raab]

Yuppers to that, bud.

I've carried .22 Mag, .38/357, 44 Special and 45 Colt shotshells. I even used to cut down .410 shotshells to cylinder length for my non-Ruger 45 Colts. Have taken a bird or two on the wing with the latter - which absolutely astounds anybody who doesn't know you have shotshells in the cylinder - grin!

Now that .45 capsules are available, I wouldn't bother. Besides, I sold my Colt clone, and the .410 shells won't chamber in a Ruger due to the diameter of the cylinder ratchet.

[felix]

It really does astounds folks. My bro Jimmy has a citation of shooting a 243 out of car doing about 80 mph at a lead Canadian goose, making him/her fall out of the sky at about 300 yards off, naturally guesstimated. The highway patrol car was immediately behind my twin brothers and couldn't believe the gall and of course, the shot itself. The cop did not know that the judge was a family friend and dismissed the case with I can't believe it either. The ticket must have been a misprint. ... felix

[WARD O]

Along that line -- many many years ago when I was in college, I was deer hunting with my father and several of his friends. I had a M 19 S&W 6" 357 and I had some of my home made shot shells along with me. We were heading back in for lunch at one of the friends homes. He lives at the end of a very long dead end road with woods on both sides. I was riding in the front seat passenger side when a grouse was spotted on my side of the road. Dad slowed the car quickly but still went well past the grouse. He started rapidly backing up and about that time the grouse took to wing flying in the direction the car was facing (but not moving.) I pulled up on that grouse and as both the car and the grouse were moving in opposite directions I fired and the grouse fell dead in the ditch!

I non-chalantly ran out and retreived my bird and threw it on the floor in the car. You should have seen the faces on my dad's friends! They did not know about the shot loads and just thought I was that good of a shot with a pistol!

We went in and started lunch before anyone commented on the events - but I did tell them about the shot loads..... It's still one of those shots you never forget.....

Ward

[Bodydoc447]

I will occasionally buy a box or two of target loads in 12 ga with #9 or so shot. I can open the crimp and get enough shot for several shot shells for my .41 (styrofoam plate method loads) out of each shell. Not a great way but it may be cheaper than buying a 5 or 10 pound bag of #11 or 12 shot you'll never use up.

Doc

[Newtire]

I loaded up some .44 shot loads and fired them at the 7 yard range just for a pattern check. Some of the shot hit the target frame and one bounced back and hit me in the chin. It broke the skin. Be careful experimenting at close range with that stuff.

I was called over by the neighbor lady to shoot a rattler that was outside her house. I only used a .177 CO2 pistol so as to not make too much noise. One shot just behind the head and it went right down! Got right back up! My hands were shaking and took me 5 more shots after that to finally put one in the center of it's head. Next time, it's a shotgun! Those snake loads would have been handy then.

[MJR007]

I learned something, thank you all.

[Rodfac]

Brother...here' s my method for .38 - .357. It works as well for .44 special or magnum. The powder charge should be adjusted for the weight of shot you are loading.

I've used Win 231 for snake loads for years finally deciding on a charge of 4.0 gr in .38 Spl. or .357 loads. Primers are normal looking but you can check the manuals for an appropriate charge for the weight of the shot. This gives them some smack for up close work...20 ft or less with #12 shot. Shot which is larger produce patterns too thin unless you get really close, defeating the purpose of the load. I've used them in .38 Special, .357, and .44 Special. Used for their purpose, at most, six or eight at a time for testing, they don't lead up a barrel much and a few full house jacketed rounds seem to push most of it out.

Like the majority here, I too had problems finding an easy effective wad mat'l. I tried cardboard from shirt laundry stiffeners, milk cartons and some others but found the solution with coffee can tops...the plastic variety. They're easy to cut with the case itself.

At first I used empty cases with the primer hole drilled out to allow a nail to pop the cut wad out. Later I dispensed with that and found the FINAL SOLUTION!

Sitting a primed and powdered case on its base, mouth up on the anvil portion of my shop vise, I lay a coffee can lid on the top. Using a small block of wood, with the end grain down over it, I LIGHTLY tap the block with a small hammer and voila...a perfect wad already to be pushed down on the powder charge. I pierce the wad with an awl to allow air to escape more easily, then seat it fully on the powder using a #2 pencil...the eraser end. I seat a 2nd wad on top of the first, again piercing it with an awl to allow air to escape. Using the block's end grain helps to keep case mouths from buckling if you get too energetic and soft pine or cherry blocks work better than oak or hickory.

Picking up the powdered and 'wadded' case, I use it to scoop the #12 shot out of a shallow dish, dumping a little off from full to the brim. This will allow another wad to be tapped/seated on top. The case is then fed into my press allowing the crimp shoulder of the seating die to crimp. The crimp doesn't have to be heavy, just enuf to secure the wad. I' ve found over the years, that the top wad loosens in my pocket from time to time, so I now glue it in place using crazy glue, or Testor's model airplane enamel. I color code them for the strength of the load. Red for hot snake loads, and white for 'noise makers'.

Regards, Rodfac

[geargnasher]

Malcolm, if you want the best possible way to load high-velocity, maximum payload, tight-patterning, NON-leading, durable and highly effective shotshells for any straight-walled caliber, you need to read this thread. I have spent a LOT of time testing every method that is out there that I could find, including all those mentioned so far, and after testing I thought they all sucked. So I found a better way and posted it here for just exactly the thing you're trying to do. Try it and you'll see. I shoot skeet with my .45 Colt revolver, packing almost 5/8 ounce of #9 at about 950 fps it's almost a full-house .410.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=77286&highlight=revolver+shotshell

For the .44 you can use a .410 wad (the kind with no base cushion, just a cup) directly over the powder, trim to the length that will fit your cylinder, spin cellophane tape around the exposed petals and twist a point on it to hold the shot in.

Gear

[geargnasher]

I I even used to cut down .410 shotshells to cylinder length for my non-Ruger 45 Colts.
Now that .45 capsules are available, I wouldn't bother. Besides, I sold my Colt clone, and the .410 shells won't chamber in a Ruger due to the diameter of the cylinder ratchet.

They will chamber in a New model Vaquero, cylinder ratchet is smaller than BH/SBH and old Vaquero.

Gear