Trap Door Carbine re-barrel ?

[JesterGrin_1]

I have an original Trap Door Carbine 45-70 that was found in an attic. The action works fine and has a decent trigger but critters found a home in the barrel and just really messed it up.

I tend to not like to keep anything that I can not use and with the barrel condition of this rifle it is just a wall hanger. So the question is should I have a new barrel put on it or just sell it as is to a collector or which is the best way to go about this?

Thank You for your thoughts. :)

[Char-Gar]

Well what do you want to do? If you want to shoot it, have it rebarreled and restored. You will lose any collectors value, but you will have a nice shooting Trapdoor carbine. Having one rebarreled will be a costly project but far, far cheaper than buying a good shootable example. Good carbines are going for $2,000 to $3,000 these days. Emphasis on the word "good".

Your rifle..your money..your choice!

[JesterGrin_1]

To be honest I do not wish to put a bunch of money into a Trap Door. How do I find out what it is worth as is?

[Multigunner]

Perhaps you should look into giving the Carbine to a museum if the value of the carbine can be deducted from your taxes.
Not sure how this works but I've heard of such contributions being done in the past.

My own opinion on major repairs done to collectable rifles is this.
In its present condition its a total loss as anything other than a wall hanger. If the action were badly worn I'd be all for leaving it as a wall hanger.
If the carbine is in otherwise good shootable condition other than the barrel I'd first look into a possible relining of the bore to preserve its markings if any and original sights.
IIRC some trapdoor rifle barrels were relined to begin with.
Theres a slim possibility that a decent original barrel might be found, salvaged from a damaged non restorable carbine.
One might find a carbine with good bore but damaged action, switch out the barrels and have one shootable carbine and one wallhanger to offer to a museum.

A friend was given an old trap door rifle long ago and used it only with .410 shotshells. If the barrel walls aren't compromised you might consider that option.

Lastly a bore may not be as bad as you think. A good cleaning may reveal a bore that can be saved by lead lapping away most of the pitting.

[bob208]

i would contact robert hoyt in fairfeld pa. he has relined trapdoor and muzzloader barels.

[no-horse]

try trapdoors.com

[excess650]

Is it something that you would be interested in shooting? If so, have it relined. You're not really limited to 45-70 either. A 45-90 in a carbine would be brutal, but a 40-50 Sharps Bottleneck would be pleasnt to shoot and efficient. With some extractor work you could use cartridges with the 30-40 Krag or 303 Brit as the basis, or make a 38-55.

I've seen some pretty fancy Trapdoor carbines with octagon/round barrels if you don't mind putting more $ into it.

[JesterGrin_1]

I maybe odd as I would like to put as little money into as possible. Just to make it a shooter. I just thought maybe it could be a light carry rifle if I see a hog or something while out doing something else. :)

[skeet1]

You said that the barrel was really messed up, but have you shot it. Sometimes a barrel that doesn't look like it could possibly shoot actually shoot quite well. Give it a try.

Skeet1

[JesterGrin_1]

I can not even chamber empty brass. I think I would need a chamber reamer to run in it to clean it up fist before I could even try to fire a round out of it.

[Multigunner]

I can not even chamber empty brass. I think I would need a chamber reamer to run in it to clean it up fist before I could even try to fire a round out of it.

Rust takes up something like 15 times the volume of the steel it displaces, so a hefty looking layer of rust may represent only a few thousandths or less of the surface eaten away. Deep pits are the real barrel killers.

Soaking the barrel in penetrating oil then using a brass or copper tube as a scraper to remove as much gunk as possible from the chamber may give you a better idea of what you have to work with.

If you don't want to invest a lot of time in this project you may as well offer it for sale to someone who has better resources and a stronger drive.

One thing just occurred to me.
This carbine might be one of the movie prop guns sold off by 20th Century Fox studios years ago. In which case it it may have be modified to chamber only the five in one theatrical blanks.
Also thats a possiblity for a buyer as well. Some of the best movie prop gun dealerships have gone out of business in recent years and just at a time when big budget westerns begain to come back to the screen. Those productions noted for attempting to use guns more suited to the eras of the stories, rather than the hapzard use of winchester 92 carbines and SAA pistols in the 1860's and other miscues common to the older films.

[uncle joe]

I would try running a brass brush on a drill down the barrel and see what it looks like and if you could chamber a round.

[NickSS]

I have had a couple of old rifles relined with new tubes. It generally is at least 100 to 200 dollars cheaper than a new barrel and requires no stock work. I have had a rolling block carbine with a bad bore relined to 45-70 from the original 50 carbine. A Ballard 38 extra long re lined to 32-40 and a completely rusted out Remington RB sporter relined to 40-65 all shot very well. I have a friend who is a gunsmith who does relineing and has relined dozens of rifles including his three favorits all 76 Winchesters in 40-60, 45-60 and 50-90. He also did one in 45-75 but sold it last year to another friend.

[Larry Gibson]

Before making any alterations please run the seial # by the folks on trapdoor.com. I can do it for you if you want.

If it has no collector values and is fairly decent on the outs complete with workable rear sight then I'd consider relining it with a .452 barrel liner with a 16 - 22" twist and chambering it in .45 Colt. It would then make a very good cast bullet rifle and a great companion piece to a SSA revolver of the same cartridge.

Larry Gibson

[missionary5155]

Good afternoon
I would opt for 1st a rebore to 50-70 if possible. Give Jesse a call and ask.. That would make a fine up close hunter big enough to bag any criter we will ever see.
If it cannot get rebored then I would say +1 on the 452 Colt liner... A 300 grain 452 is no different than a .460 300 grainer when cast of 40-1. Plus you would have a easy to find mould size.

[argie1891]

one thing i just cant understand is the talk about so called collector value. There was one post that said Well what do you want to do? If you want to shoot it, have it rebarreled and restored. You will lose any collectors value, It is my opinion that most rusty guns really have no collector value. Unless they are a really rare piece who would pay much for a rusty gun. The value of any firearm or any other item in poor conditin comes in pretty low. i know i have heard this collector value thing for years but those who say that arent willing to put their hamiltons jeffersons and franklins on the table for a gun that is not shootable and looks like it was used as a boat anchor. I would much rather have a shootable firearm than a closet maiden. that is my opinion and i know that is not worlth much. argie1891

[Char-Gar]

argie... The original poster told us next to nothing about the condition of the rifle other than it was found in an attic and some critters (whatever that is) set up housekeeping in the barrel. Mud wasps love old tubes like barrels to live in. Most of that can be cleaned out.

Without having the rifle in hand or some good detailed pics who knows the condition of the rifle. It might clean up just fine. I finished cleaning up and restoring a junk Trapdoor rifle this weeks and it doesn't look like the same rifle. You will be amazed at how some of these old rifles clean up.

Original Trapdoor Carbines do have collector's value unless they are just rusted shut relics. The question is just how much and that can't be determined with the information we have before us.

[JesterGrin_1]

Well I will try and add more till I can get some pictures. The blue is pretty much gone with some surface rust that I cleaned up pretty easy. And the trigger as well as the trap door work just fine. Just the inside of the barrel is not in good shape or the chamber.

[Good Cheer]

I'd put a longer barrel on it because it needs more barrel. That would solve the rust problem too!

[StrawHat]

There are a couple of sites worth looking toward for guidance.

http://www.trapdoorcollector.com/

and

http://www.trapdoors.com/

First you need to determine if you have a carbine or a cut down rifle. Big difference in value, percieved or otherwise. Please do not try the electric drill and brush trick. Use a good rod and brush to remove whatever is in the barrel and then give the bore a good scrub. I have several trapdoors and get some suprisingly good groups with some poor looking bores, when the ammunition is proper for the firearm. If you don't want to make this one shoot and still want a lightweight 45-70, locate a Ruger #3. From what I hear, they are lightweight and accurate.

[SharpsShooter]

I have one that has been rebarrelled to 38-55 with a Green Mtn barrel. I browned the barrel and metalwork and it looks to be 100+ years old and is lots of fun to shoot.


http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r255/SharpsShooter_photos/38-55Trapdoor2.jpg


SS

[HORNET]

Jester,
You might want to look down in Swappin' & Sellin. GoldenRoyBoy listed a trapdoor barrel & receiver this morning at a reasonable price for a shooter. Replacement sights from the picture.

[KCSO]

Trapdoors are easy to do and I have relined these for everything from 22 LR to 20 Ga shotgun. Actually the shotgun was just rebore and choke. 38-55 is a dandy if you don't want the original 45-70 recoil. Just remember yu can't go over 16,000 psi on the new barrel the action won't stand a lot of pressure but any of the old B/P rounds do well here. Last one I did was for 38-40 for a companion gun for a cowboy here.