Action Job

[HEAD0001]

I am thinking about taking the advice of a member here(Dan Walker). I just priced an action job for a Ruger Bisley 7-1/2, adjustable sighted, 45 Colt.

The work includes an action job. Cylinder alignment. Trigger work. Polishing the forcing cone. And re boring the cylinder. Total price--including shipping is $270. Is that a good price??

It will be done by a real professional. I do not wish to mention his name at this time. Thanks, Tom.

[44man]

I am thinking about taking the advice of a member here(Dan Walker). I just priced an action job for a Ruger Bisley 7-1/2, adjustable sighted, 45 Colt.

The work includes an action job. Cylinder alignment. Trigger work. Polishing the forcing cone. And re boring the cylinder. Total price--including shipping is $270. Is that a good price??

It will be done by a real professional. I do not wish to mention his name at this time. Thanks, Tom.
It sounds like a deal because shipping is what is going to eat you up. Shipping is the biggest rape of gun owners ever thought of.
The mans work will support his family and business. I never knew a rich gunsmith. They work for what they get.

[454PB]

You might want to look here:

http://www.bobmunden.com/option1.htm

[HEAD0001]

That is where I am looking. Tom.

[Char-Gar]

After 50 years with sixguns and a couple of hundred passing through my hands, I am pretty jaundiced about action jobs. For the most part the need is imaginary or brought on by reading magazine or other gun press stuff. Somebody convinces another they "need" an action job, when nobody needs an action job unless there is a real problem.

So, my question is why do you think you need an action job? What is wrong with your handgun now. Unless there is some visable or recognizable problem save you money and shoot the darn thing. Most action jobs just consist of a gunsmith creating artifica/premature wear on the pistol and charging you money for so doing. Put a few thousand rounds through your sixgun and it will be slick as a whistle.

If your RUGER SA trigger pull is to heavy, then remove the grips, flip one the spring on one side off of the little stud frame and replace the grips. You will drop your trigger pull in half and find out you don't need to spend all of that money. If you are a little more energetic you can replace all of the factory springs with lighter after market springs.

For less than $25.00 you can buy a new cylinder base pin from Belt Mountain and install it your self. That will remove any wobble the cylinder might have around it's axis.

Most Ruger forcing cones are just fine as they come from the factory. If yours is one of those rare cases when the forcing cone is a problem, you can purchase the tooling from Brownells to do it yourself for much less than what you are paying for your action job. You will have the tooling left over.

If the cylinder throats are too tight and need to be opened up, just jerk the cylinder and mail it to cylindersmith or somebody else and they can open it up for less than $40.00 and mail it back to you. You don't have the dreadful expense of shipping the entire handgun.

In my younger days, I paid lots of money to gunsmiths to improve guns that didn't need improvement. More often than not, what I got back wasn't worth the money or they screw up my pistol big time. This includes some of the biggest names in the business.

Your pistol..your money..your choice!

[Ed K]

In my younger days, I paid lots of money to gunsmiths to improve guns that didn't need improvement. More often than not, what I got back wasn't worth the money or they screw up my pistol big time.

Your pistol..your money..your choice!

Right on Chargar! And I'm sick of people telling my that DIY will only get me into trouble. I've had more trouble with "professionally smithed" revolvers than NIB factory specimens. Of course there are those that just about completely remanufacture a revolver and the original is looked upon as merely a set of castings - fine if you've got that kind of dough.

[Changeling]

Right on Chargar! And I'm sick of people telling my that DIY will only get me into trouble. I've had more trouble with "professionally smithed" revolvers than NIB factory specimens. Of course there are those that just about completely remanufacture a revolver and the original is looked upon as merely a set of castings - fine if you've got that kind of dough.


That is pure BS, a good trigger job is something you evidently have never experienced! It absolutely cannot be received by flicking off one spring or installing a spring set from a company like Woolf, there is a lot more to it then that, but then it amazes me how so many people think THAT is a good/great/trigger job!

And to say that gunsmiths are just ripping one off by doing the above is an absolutely ignorant statement !!

[44man]

That is pure BS, a good trigger job is something you evidently have never experienced! It absolutely cannot be received by flicking off one spring or installing a spring set from a company like Woolf, there is a lot more to it then that, but then it amazes me how so many people think THAT is a good/great/trigger job!

And to say that gunsmiths are just ripping one off by doing the above is an absolutely ignorant statement !!
It is hard to explain but some are afraid to take a gun apart. I do my own trigger jobs and am down to 19 oz on some with zero creep.
I work on guns and people have a great fear of them. I can't change minds so if they want to spend money, thinking custom work makes a gun shoot better, we bark at the moon.
You need to have done years of gunsmith work to see how much fear there is to work on a gun. Some can't even clean a gun.
Custom guns are brought here to shoot all the time and my out of box guns with just a trigger job will shoot better every time.

[Char-Gar]

Changeling... Folks are free to expression their thoughts and opinions whether based on experience or not. There is no need to label a different opinion than yours as either "BS" or "ignorant". Such terms promote neither understanding, communication or friendship. In fact they are just plain rude and display a lack of manners and breeding.

I can assure you I have sent firearms to big name smiths like Clark, Cylinder and Slide, Reeder, Munden and others. Some of these firearms came back improved and others came back butchered. None of them came back with enough improvement to warrant the expense involved.

Removing one leg of the spring (Ruger SA) from the stud frame will drop the trigger pull by half. That is not BS or ignorance,it is just fact

I have well over a half century experience as a serious shooter, gun collector and hand loader. There are very, very few gunsmiths I would trust with one of my firearms. These guys work with one eye on the clock and another on the bottom line. They don't give the time and attention that I will give to my own gun project. I am a pretty accomplished gunsmith and can do most of my work myself.

I have no beef with a fellow trying to make an honest buck working on guns, but folks producing high quality work are few and far between. Folks who want to send their guns off for work that is not needed are free to do so. But, I deeply resent being called ignorant because I choose not to buy into the popular notion that "action jobs" are either needed or all that helpful in the long run.

[HEAD0001]

I wasn't trying to start an argument about gunsmiths. I do believe the guy who priced the work would do a good job, or I would not even ask. I am just wondering if the price quoted was in the ballpark?? Or should I keep looking for another smith??

I know alot of you guys do your own work. But I have no mechanical inclination what so ever. I learned long ago to leave well enough alone. Before I worked on a firearm I would just leave it as is. Or sell it. Tom.

[bbs70]

I have a stainless 45 blackhawk.
I bought it new and it went straight to Bill Oglesby.
For about 100.00 he would do the trigger job and several other things.

But I went for the 325.00 package.
Cylinders honed, forcing cone cut, recrowned, timed, trigger job with new springs, cylinder alignment, and a bunch of other work.
It was well worth the price.
After 1500 rounds I still don't have that Ruger drag mark on the cylinder either.

I live about an hour away from his shop, so I didn't have the mail charges.
The price you quoted doesn't sound out of line to me.

[HEAD0001]

Thanks, Tom.

[ReloaderFred]

I own about a dozen Ruger Blackhawks and two of them went through the Oglesby & Oglesby shop mentioned by bbs70. Those two revolvers are head and shoulders above the others in shootability. I use them for SASS matches and bought them from a guy who used them for several years of matches before I bought them from him. There are about 12 years of constant shooting on those two guns and they've never failed between the two owners, and there has to be at least 10,000 rounds through each of them. I know for a fact that I've put over 5,000 rounds through each of them myself. The money spent to make them "match ready" was well spent.

I can't speak to other 'smiths, but Olgesby & Oglesby did great work on these two guns.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[nicholst55]

A lot depends on one's expectations. As a former paper puncher (competitive Bullseye shooter), I have experienced many professional trigger jobs on various pistols and revolvers. Once accustomed to them, I find that I infinitely prefer the feel of a professionally-smithed trigger on any handgun.

I own several Ruger SA revolvers, and have only had professional trigger jobs on two of them so far. The rest WILL have them also, eventually. Having a Ruger slicked up (and properly timed, something the factory evidently cannot do) by someone of the caliber of Bob Munden, Bill Oglesby, Hamilton Bowen, or David Clements (among several others) is, IMHO, money well spent.

One of my Rugers, an Old Army, had no discernible forcing cone, but merely a slight radius of the breech end of the barrel. It also had a creepy trigger pull. I had those two problems remedied at a modest cost, and now find the gun much more enjoyable to shoot. Since then I have invested in the tools to cut my own forcing cones and cylinder throats. For the time being, I will leave trigger jobs and correcting cylinder carry-up to the professionals.

Not everyone feels the need for these things, and there's nothing wrong with that. Nor is there a problem with those who do demand these things spending their money on them.

Just MHO.

[Ed K]

The work includes an action job. Cylinder alignment. Trigger work. Polishing the forcing cone. And re boring the cylinder. Total price--including shipping is $270. Is that a good price??

Question on the cylinder re-boring and alignment. I understand that in the context of a caliber conversion such as 44-to-45 and then fitting an oversized cylinder stop to improve lockup and alignment. Since that includes barrel change and seems like a lot of work- to much for that price, exactly what is being proposed here? I've never measured a Ruger cylinder that wasn't already larger than SAAMI minimum spec so I don't see how reboring would benefit. Will the gunsmith be fitting an oversized stop?

[44man]

Question on the cylinder re-boring and alignment. I understand that in the context of a caliber conversion such as 44-to-45 and then fitting an oversized cylinder stop to improve lockup and alignment. Since that includes barrel change and seems like a lot of work- to much for that price, exactly what is being proposed here? I've never measured a Ruger cylinder that wasn't already larger than SAAMI minimum spec so I don't see how reboring would benefit. Will the gunsmith be fitting an oversized stop?
.45 Ruger's are notorious for having small throats so they need reamed if they measure too small.
Over size stops are used for timing, cut the right side of it to get better alignment but the slot can be shifted too. Never had a Ruger out of line yet but have had to fix a lot of Dan Wesson guns. Most good gunsmiths will not remove all play at the cylinder latch. You do not want a super tight revolver.
Parts can be changed to regulate when the lock pops against the cylinder but I never seen a need for it, I can live with the marks.
Cylinder pins should not be super tight either because you need EVERY chamber to be perfect. To fit a gun super tight will make them less accurate unless each chamber is PERFECT which is rare. I have had too many super tight $2000 revolvers here that every chamber shoots to a different POI.
You can have the best gunsmith on earth work on a gun and get the touchy-feely, pride of a tight gun to show friends but I prefer to see what the gun does at 50 and 200 meters. I also do not want off center wear from being too tight. A gun fit right will last for a few hundred years but one not right can show wear with 500 rounds.
Same as the gap. I don't care if it is .006" or .002". Small gaps increase the pressure from the gap and add so little to the velocity it is not worth fooling with. If a larger gap spits powder residue but shoots like crazy, why reduce it? I have shot Creedmore with tight guns that hammered my calf through the blast shield until it was sore.
You can spend a lot of money on a good revolver and in the end, the thing that made it shoot better was ONLY the trigger job. Sometimes all the other work makes the gun less accurate.

[Char-Gar]

Head... I really can't speak to the cost question as I don't send pistols to gunsmiths anymore. Guys like you are the folks gunsmiths make their living on and that is not a bad thing. You want the work done and they are willing to do the work, so everybody benefits.

I only drifted the thread because you were asking questions about the price and it's reasonableness. That made me think that money was an issue. I wanted to help you get to where you wanted to be without the outlay of much cash.

I am not a handy man type. I can't work on cars, do electrical, plumbing or nail too boards togeather. But I can do gun work because it interests me and I take the time to learn. Also, I have never had the ready cash to pay for everything thing I wanted done, and I have been disappointed too many times in the so called "professional" gunsmith.

Gunwork is not rocket science, nor does it take mechanical apptitude. It is all pretty simple and straight forward stuff. Anything seems hard, when you don't know how to do it. Once you know, then most things are pretty simple. With the Internet, there as resources out there to help a fellow know what to do. Plus there are books, articles and so forth.

What started out with me as an economic necessity, has become an enjoyable past time over the years. Yesterday, I completed the restoration of an 1889 Trapdoor Springfield for a friend. To take a rough rifle with rusted metal and spar varnish on the stock and to take it back to decent original condition is a real pleasure. An old soldier that was only fit to be an ugly wall hanger is now back in service as a rifle.

44 is correct about trigger pull. That is the heart and soul of a hand held firearm. I shoot Saturday in a falling plate 22 pistol match. My pistol is a Ruger with a Douglas bbl and a full house trigger job with steel trigger, overtravel etc. etc.. The trigger breaks at a nice crisp 2 pounds. My backup is a box stock Ruger. While I can shoot the stock Ruger, the trigger on the main pistol makes hitting much easier. You might put the pistols in a machine rest side by side, and the Douglas bbl might shoot tighter groups, but put them in you hand, and the only thing that counts is the trigger.

Anyway...I guess gun work is not for everybody. I wish you well with your action job, your shooting and your life.

[Ed K]

.45 Ruger's are notorious for having small throats so they need reamed if they measure too small.

Understood but if a gunsmith told me he would "re-bore" a cylinder for me, I would not be too happy to find out he took a throating reamer to it and opened it up one or two thou. I would have thought a rebore involved machining an undersize cylinder relative to its' true axis.

Head - I'll just edit instead of add another post toward the thread drift. I also wish you well with your revolver work. It seems you are getting a lot of work done for your money!

[Changeling]

I'll stand by what I said in any situation relative to "Trigger work"

"That is pure BS, a good trigger job is something you evidently have never experienced! It absolutely cannot be received by flicking off one spring or installing a spring set from a company like Woolf, there is a lot more to it then that, but then it amazes me how so many people think THAT is a good/great/trigger job!"

And to say that gunsmiths are just ripping one off by doing the above is an absolutely ignorant statement !!

[44man]

I'll stand by what I said in any situation relative to "Trigger work"

"That is pure BS, a good trigger job is something you evidently have never experienced! It absolutely cannot be received by flicking off one spring or installing a spring set from a company like Woolf, there is a lot more to it then that, but then it amazes me how so many people think THAT is a good/great/trigger job!"

And to say that gunsmiths are just ripping one off by doing the above is an absolutely ignorant statement !!
I have to agree with this. Spring changes just do not buy it. I go the other way by installing OVER POWER Wolff mainsprings.
But to get rid of creep and drag, work has to be done to the hammer and trigger.
A good smith will do METAL WORK, not just fool with springs.
Taking one leg off the trigger spring will lighten the pull and I have even done it after the metal work and changing the bend on the trigger spring but the metal work still needs to be done.
I would say the worst trigger job is one done by changing the mainspring to a lighter one. At least leave the factory spring in.

[Char-Gar]

I only mention spring changes because lots of folks do it and seem to be happy with the results. I don't feel that I have the right to be critical of them if that what makes them happy.

Personaly, I quit changing, grinding and shortening springs 35 years ago. Most often just honest use will do the job for me. There are some pistols like Ruger old model SAs that just have so much creep I need to work on the hammer notch to eliminate that.

[44man]

I only mention spring changes because lots of folks do it and seem to be happy with the results. I don't feel that I have the right to be critical of them if that what makes them happy.

Personaly, I quit changing, grinding and shortening springs 35 years ago. Most often just honest use will do the job for me. There are some pistols like Ruger old model SAs that just have so much creep I need to work on the hammer notch to eliminate that.
ALL Ruger"s and BFR's need creep removed except custom shop BFR's.
I am critical of spring changers to lighter ones because they remove accuracy and dependability. Mainsprings should never be lightened because most factory springs are at the minimum at the start.
The worst stinking trigger to work on is the Redhawk that uses one spring. The SRH is a joy!