1904 Portuguese Mauser Info/Opinions

[Uncle Grinch]

I picked up a Portuguese M1904 Mauser-Vergueiro in 8 X 57 mm and other than what I've found online, I don't know much about them. I'm mostly interested in opinions and feedback from any of you that have had one. No photos yet as it's in transit.

I became interested in one after seeing one in a pawn shop. It seemed lighter than most Mausers. I realize they are patterned after the split bridge mannlichers, but have a Mauser bottom.

This one has been converted to 8 x 57 and I'm hoping to shoot my GB 8MM plain base plinker in it.

[Tedly]

Really very nice rifles. Almost all were refitted to 8mm by the Portuguese military about 1939 (some say in Germany) to get in line with their adoption of the 8mm round. Guns were originally made at DMW around 1904 and are excellent German quality. With a good bore (most of them ) they shoot great. Coincidently, this is the only milsurp I have that shoots all jacketed ammo EXACTLY to the sights at 100 yds. regardless of bullet weight, load, etc. I've been told that its due to the weight and dimentions of the barrel... Haven't gotten around to cast yet , but I will...HTH...Tedly

[Dutchman]

I picked up a Portuguese M1904 Mauser-Vergueiro in 8 X 57 mm and other than what I've found online, I don't know much about them. I'm mostly interested in opinions and feedback from any of you that have had one. No photos yet as it's in transit.

I became interested in one after seeing one in a pawn shop. It seemed lighter than most Mausers. I realize they are patterned after the split bridge mannlichers, but have a Mauser bottom.

This one has been converted to 8 x 57 and I'm hoping to shoot my GB 8MM plain base plinker in it.

Rightfully it's a Model 904/m39.

I have an all matching # that I bought from JLD (importer) for a whopping $60. Beautiful bore, tight rifle. My only complaint is the length-of-pull is way too short for me. Similar to a Chinese/Russian SKS. I did use it for load development when I started shooting cast bullet 8x57 loads.

In the days of ~cruffler abundance~ you'd be jeered and mocked if you passed up crufflerwapen that was only $60 so that's why I bought mine. It could well be the best $60 rifle I ever bought outside of the Swedish Mausers when they were $40-70 circa 1988.

The 8mm conversions were done by DWM in Germany. The rifle was originally built by DWM so the quality is A-1. The bolt is strange and funky and it is generally recommended that you not try to disassemble the bolt unless you have a handful of valium or a room reserved at the local sanitarium. It's a wicked bolt. The magazine is 100% Mauser 5 rd staggered like any other Mauser. It's a very cool rifle. They're not seen much anymore because there apparently weren't that many to begin with.

I wouldn't say it was "light weight" at all. It's as heavy as any other 24" bbl Mauser. Ball's book, Mauser Bolt Action Rifles of the World, says it's 8.1 pounds with a 23.62" barrel.

During the 8mm conversion there was a gas escape hole drilled into the receiver ring. This hole is seen in two different locations. One is top-dead-center and defaces the IC crest (King Carlos I). The other location, where it is on my rifle, is located on the left side wall of the receiver and defaces some of the markings, just about exactly like the Hatcher Hole on the 1903 Springfield rifles. It's about 3/16" diameter or so.

Hint-- a used supple Swedish m/96 sling looks and functions a-ok on this rifle.... as it does on the Japanese Type 38 and Swiss 1896/11 & 1911.

Dutch

[Uncle Grinch]

Thanks for the info Dutch. Here are some photos from the sellers listing....

[Dutchman]

The stock on mine is much darker. But you can see where the gas escape hole is on the left-sidewall of the receiver. At least it doesn't deface the receiver crest as on some.

I'll have to dig mine out of the safe and do a range trip with it.

Dutch

[smlekid]

one thing to look for is corrosion under the wood for some reason they can be very badly pitted under there I don't know if it is a salt problem with the wood like the Browning shotguns
some I've seen have almost been unsafe to shoot

[rollingblock]

I bought a hacked up Portuguese Mauser and proceeded to hack some more. I shortened the stock to suit my daughters short arms and cut the barrel to 18inchs and put on a suppressor to control the noise and reduce the kick. It required a medium eye relief scope and after cleaning up the rather sad looking barrel with some CB rolled in 400 rock polishing grit and fitting an old Parker Hale sporting trigger its a useful deer rifle. I altered the bolt handle by cutting of the old one then drilling a hole for a high tensile bolt and tacked it into place with ye olde arc welder. The long eye relief allows the original safety to be used. Its a very smooth action and the controlled feed extractor will still close over a single round put in the chamber.
The standard load for my daughter is 43grs ADI 2208 behind the 170 Hornady round nose. Certainly not in the super magnum class but the deer don't seem to know that by the way they fall over.
And yes thats a wheel nut for a bolt handle.

[Uncle Grinch]

Finally got around to taking some pictures on my Portuguese Mauser.

Sized and lubed some .323 Plinkers, but have not shot them yet.

[EMC45]

You've done well Grinch. Got a couple nice guns there.

[Multigunner]

Really very nice rifles. Almost all were refitted to 8mm by the Portuguese military about 1939 (some say in Germany) to get in line with their adoption of the 8mm round. Guns were originally made at DMW around 1904 and are excellent German quality. With a good bore (most of them ) they shoot great. Coincidently, this is the only milsurp I have that shoots all jacketed ammo EXACTLY to the sights at 100 yds. regardless of bullet weight, load, etc. I've been told that its due to the weight and dimentions of the barrel... Haven't gotten around to cast yet , but I will...HTH...Tedly

Thats very interesting, and likely an example of compensation similar to that found with the SMLE rifles.
The SMLE barrel vibrations were found to be so well in sync with the qualities of the .303 MkVII cartridge that a round that was at the low end of velocity deviation
would leave the muzzle on the upswing of barrel flex while a round that was at the high end would leave on the down swing. Both rounds would then be dead on at some point down range. Usually this only kicked in at ranges over 600 yards.

All barrels exhibit some form of this effect, though in some cases it works out in the opposite and increases vertical deviation. One reason why a barrel that shoots like a house afire can start throwing patterns instead of groups if cut back by an inch or two.

[Gunaria]

I bought a hacked up Portuguese Mauser and proceeded to hack some more. I shortened the stock to suit my daughters short arms and cut the barrel to 18inchs and put on a suppressor to control the noise and reduce the kick. It required a medium eye relief scope and after cleaning up the rather sad looking barrel with some CB rolled in 400 rock polishing grit and fitting an old Parker Hale sporting trigger its a useful deer rifle. I altered the bolt handle by cutting of the old one then drilling a hole for a high tensile bolt and tacked it into place with ye olde arc welder. The long eye relief allows the original safety to be used. Its a very smooth action and the controlled feed extractor will still close over a single round put in the chamber.
The standard load for my daughter is 43grs ADI 2208 behind the 170 Hornady round nose. Certainly not in the super magnum class but the deer don't seem to know that by the way they fall over.
And yes thats a wheel nut for a bolt handle.

Wow you Bubba a Bubba.[smilie=p: How quite is it now?

[jonk]

One of my best shooting 8mms. Wish I had a dozen. Smooth, accurate, decent sights compared to the v shaped blade of most milsurps... the Portuguese is squared off.

[Uncle Grinch]

I finally got around to slugging the bore and it's a little on the large size I believe. Came out to .3255 ~ .326. My GB .323 Plinkers drop at almost the same size with my alloy.

My sizer barely trues them up when lubing since it's a .325. Next step is to shoot a few to see how it does. Going to try 8.0 ~ 9.0 grains of Unique.

[NoDakJak]

Dutchman is certainly right about disassembling the bolt.I took my bolt apart s couple years ago and the air was certainly blue before I got it back together. Many of these rifles were apparently not issued after being rebarreled. I can certainly believe that many of these rifles have corrosian below the stockline. Many if not most of these rifles were used in Africa. The heat and humidity in the east African lowlands are some of the worst in the world. It is a wonder that any of these rifles survived. I have owned several 1908 Brazilian Mausers that must have seen extensive use in the jungle as they also had severe rust below the stockline.
The Portugese rifle that I now use was purchased as a barreled action. I dropped it into a splinter stock that came off a small ring 98. The stock is of some type of european walnut and is a light golden color. That scrawny little stock isn't much fun to shoot with hot loads but works great with cast loads. I hae been toying with the idea of replacing the straight bolt with a Mannlicher spoon. Neil

[watchUburn]

Hi Guys,
Just found this thread and thought I'd ask if anyone knows of where to pick up an aftermarket stock for a Vergueiro 8mm?
I have one and its great to shoot, however the stock has started to split. I have the choice of repairing it, or replacing it it. I'd prefer not the chop up the furniture because the wood is so nice...
Any ideas?

[Dutchman]

I don't think anybody makes a stock for that rifle. Not much demand for it.

Dutch

[NoDakJak]

Try a small ring 98 Mauser stock on it. It fit mine perfectly except for the front of the inletting for the trigger guard where it had to be lengthened. neil

[jerrymac3139]

I have recently obtained a M1904/39. The rifle has been sportized.
The bolt and receiver have matching serial numbers. I purchased some surplus Yugo 8 x 57 M 1954 ammo at a shooting range to try it out. The rifle has a straight bolt. and the bolt action is smooth with a full magazine of live ammo. However when I fired the rifle. The bolt first seemed jammed. I determined that I was able to operate the bolt after firing by using my palm to buimp the bolt to unlock it. My question is this. Is this normal for this type of rifle? The spent casing do not show any visible signs of over pressurization or any other abnormalities. I have noticed when I load the rifle maually with a live round. The live round will not just fall out of the chamber. I guessing the surplus ammo be the problem. Shouldn't the bolt action be smooth while ejecting the spent rounds?

Thanks for any help or light someone may be able to provide me.

[Uncle Grinch]

Mike is smooth as butter. Be careful though when fiddling with this bolt. It comes apart very easily, but is a pain to get back together.

http://www.surplusrifle.com/mauserport1904m38/boltdisassembly/index.asp

http://www.saaaca.org.za/links/m1904_bolt.htm

[jerrymac3139]

Does anyone know if a K98 bent handle bolt or any other bent handle bolt from another model of rifle is interchangable with the M1904/39? I assume the headspace would have to be adjusted afterward the switch.

[Dutchman]

Does anyone know if a K98 bent handle bolt or any other bent handle bolt from another model of rifle is interchangable with the M1904/39? I assume the headspace would have to be adjusted afterward the switch.

No other Mauser bolt is interchangeable with the m/904/39. The action is totally different.

Dutch

[MtGun44]

Wow. You can learn something if you will read and listen, and I just learned something
today. I THOUGHT that I knew pretty much what models that Mauser had made over
the period from 1893 on to WW2. I had never heard of the split bridge Mauser. Just
looking at the bolt dissassembly on surplus rifles was a real education, again it is totally
unrelated to the 1893 and 1898 designs which I am very familiar with.

I'll have to study the history of this one a bit more.

Dutch - when I read "action is totally different", I was VERY curious, thinking I had a decent
knowledge of Mausers (since I own a bucket of them!) - I was surprised that you had
absolutely not exaggerated, but then you are often a real source of surplus rifle knowledge
here, so I know to pay attention.

Bill

[loiner1965]

i have one too and love it to bits.....use normal 198gn mauser rounds in mine so i am use to the recoil....do not take the bolt to pieces as you will not put it back together.trust me.
never noticed a vent hole on the side of the receiver but i will check it now

[smlekid]

I work occasional at a local gunshop there was a Vergueiro for sale it sold and the next day the gentleman who purchased it walked in with the bolt in Pieces luckily I had reassembled my own bolt so after finding the instructions and putting it back together everyone was happy

[Uncle Grinch]

Yep... they are nice, real craftsmanship and smooth as butter.

It does take three hands to reassemble the bolt though.

[Dutchman]

Wow. You can learn something if you will read and listen, and I just learned something
today. I THOUGHT that I knew pretty much what models that Mauser had made over
the period from 1893 on to WW2. I had never heard of the split bridge Mauser. Just
looking at the bolt dissassembly on surplus rifles was a real education, again it is totally
unrelated to the 1893 and 1898 designs which I am very familiar with.

I'll have to study the history of this one a bit more.

Dutch - when I read "action is totally different", I was VERY curious, thinking I had a decent
knowledge of Mausers (since I own a bucket of them!) - I was surprised that you had
absolutely not exaggerated, but then you are often a real source of surplus rifle knowledge
here, so I know to pay attention.

Bill

hi Bill

The Vergueiro is not a Mauser. The only real Mauser element is the staggered magazine and the rear sight. It's the same exact magazine design as most all other Mausers. And, it wasn't made at Mauser Oberndorf it was made by Deutsche Waffen und Munitions fabriken (hope I got that from memory). DWM which started as Ludwig Loewe until 1896.

My first Mauser was an 1894 Swedish carbine when I was 14 in 1966. In 1968 I got my first 1903 Springfield at 16 and my first Colt Commander .45. In 1969 came the Carl Gustaf m/38 conversion stocked in elm and from that point on everything else was just secondary. The Swede had two features I really liked: 1- square notch sights, 2- longer length of pull than the 1903 Springfield. The Portuguese Vergueiro has square notch sights but a really short length of pull.

I'm going to do a post in the military rifle section on stock wood research of Swedes so I don't hijack this thread. Check it out.

Dutch

[Dutchman]

Raise your hand if you didn't know France had gun rags... Ok, put them down.

http://images12.fotki.com/v216/photos/2/28344/157842/vera-vi.jpg

http://images43.fotki.com/v504/photos/2/28344/157842/verb-vi.jpg

http://images17.fotki.com/v62/photos/2/28344/157842/verc-vi.jpg

http://images16.fotki.com/v3/photos/2/28344/157842/verd-vi.jpg

[doubs43]

The original Vergueiro rifles were chambered in 6.5x58mm and were a full length rifle with a 29" barrel (approximately). The nose cap was the 1902 style. As already said, they were made by DWM for the Portuguese military and the workmanship was of the highest quality. They were designated as the M-904.

The majority of the rifles were sent to Mauser (DWM was, by then, defunct) in the late 1930's to be reworked. The barrels were either shortened to approximately 24" and rebored to 8mm or the barrels were replaced and chambered for the 8x57mm cartridge. The Portuguese then designated them as the M-904/39.

My example is all matching except for the firing pin shroud and safety wing. The bore appears to have never been shot. Overall, my rifle is in excellent condition. The bolt design is peculiar and taking one apart and reassembly is interesting... not to mention aggravating! It's a strong design that easily handles the 8x57mm pressures.

[JeffG]

Nice background Dutchman, I just picked up one today. It has pitting under the wood but bore looks good. Cleaned it up and fired a couple rounds in it. I love the front sight on this thing.

[EDG]

There is a youtube video showing how to assemble and disassemble the bolt.

[JeffG]

There is a youtube video showing how to assemble and disassemble the bolt.

yep, I disassembled it ok but needed to watch video to put it back together. I don't think I would have figured that out.

I need to get the wood clean and rubbed with some BLO.

[enfieldphile]

The bolt is strange and funky and it is generally recommended that you not try to disassemble the bolt unless you have a handful of valium or a room reserved at the local sanitarium. It's a wicked bolt.

Dutch

I know that's right! By the time I got the bolt reassembled properly, I was ready to scream!

[diopter]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkUDEKmlewg

Noticed the original links were useless.

[Scharfschuetze]

Mine is as accurate as any of my Mausers. While not as quick to fire follow up shots due to the location of the bolt handle, it is one of my favorite military rifles.

The stock on mine is a bit dark, but it is mechanically sound and matched up serial number wise. And yes, three hands are an asset in reassembling bolt.

The square blade front sight and the square notch rear sight are heads and shoulders above the Korn and Visier sights on most Mausers.