.32 S&W Long rifle build

[Molly]

Fellows, I'm wanting to build a rifle in .32 S&W Long for squirrels, and need some advice regarding what to build it on - As well as possibly buying an action from someone for the job.

I want something fairly light but sturdy, that I can mount a scope on. The biggest requirement is something with the strength to hold the round. While others have done it, that cuts the Rem #4 rolling block out of the running in my eyes. Some actions that might be suitable include:

1. Model 52 Winchester (two locking lugs).
2. Remington 580 (six locking lugs)
3. There are some other 22's that have a machined bolt with a locking lug as part of the bolt, but I don't have any names. Suggestions?
4. The Stevens 44 or 44 1/2 might be possibilities if I can find one I can afford.
5. Savage 219 for relining
6. Uberti #2 Rolling block in .357 or .22 Hornet for relining
7. Remington #2 for relining.

If anyone has a suitable action or rifle, please let me know.

Regards,
Molly

[geargnasher]

You find a savage 219 that needs relining you should sell it to me :wink:

Gear

[2Tite]

I relined several H&R Toppers to .32 H&R. They work out really well and have a handy feel to them. My experience is that it can be done quite easily and inexpensively. I've used 30 cal barrels and get groups of 5/8" at 50 yds and 1 1/4 at 100. I'd check the pawn shops for small frame single shot shotguns and go from there.

[Molly]

You find a savage 219 that needs relining you should sell it to me :wink: Gear

It doesn't have to 'need' relining for my purposes. But FYI, there is one in 22 Hornet on Gunbroker.com right now.
Molly

[Molly]

I relined several H&R Toppers to .32 H&R. They work out really well and have a handy feel to them. My experience is that it can be done quite easily and inexpensively. I've used 30 cal barrels and get groups of 5/8" at 50 yds and 1 1/4 at 100. I'd check the pawn shops for small frame single shot shotguns and go from there.

I'd like to find a small frame break-open for the job. Got one handy? As for the Toppers, I realize they could be used, but I think they'd result in an unnecessarily heavy rifle. I suppose one could cut the shotgun barrel off and weld a salvaged 303 British barrel to the block below, but that's getting to be a bit of trouble.

Molly

[Multigunner]

I have a very old single barrel shotgun which I'd considered converting to handle the .32 S&W Long, since I have a Hand Jector in that chambering already.

I have run across a site where a gentleman converted a very slim .410 shotgun to .32 for use as a Rook Rifle.
Another site described how a naturalist working for a musuem converted his bird gun to fire the .38 special cartridges his guide gave him , the .38 being the guides personal defense pistol in those dangerous regions.
The .38 bullets allowed quick dispatch of trapped specimens of fairly large animals without damaging the hides as much as his shot gun had. He used a primitive smoothbore hand made adapter made from items found laying about the camp.

My 12 ga is slim for its chambering but far too large to make a simple re barreling feasible, so I'd planned on using a barrel insert made using a new condition SMLE replacement barrel I'd deactivated when I found its rear sight pin hole had been double drilled nearly cutting into the bore. I saved a cut off section of 17 inches which should be usable for the .32 though better suited for the .32-20 since the bore slugs as .314.
My Hand Ejector bore slugs at .315 and its very accurate so the .314 bore should work okay.

I'd figured on making a brass chamber insert threaded for the barrel, which would leave room to add a extractor adaptor, the original adaptor would push the chamber adaptors integral extractor.

This old shotgun was badly worn and my attempts to ream out its deep pitting were only partially successful. The firing pin hole is badly wallowed out so a brazed in breech face will be necessary which ever way I go.
When finished I'll proof test the shotgun without the adaptor to be sure it can hold up to 2 3/4 shot shell loads before going any further, since in later years some heir might try shooting it with shot shells.

Besides its use as a small game rifle such a conversion can be used with light shot snake loads as a "Garden Gun" to take care of vermin without raising a ruckus from the neighbors.

This reminds me. There are several versions of a very simple break down .410 shot gun that would make a good basis for such a conversion. I shot a few rounds through one of these belonging to a friend last year. Its not much as a .410, far too light and kicks like a mule. but might work well in .32.
The folding butt shotgun is very compact and based on a deringer type pistol frame made by that company. Its much like the small breakdown plastic flare pistols in appearance but of stronger metal construction.

[Dark Helmet]

Look here and elsewhere on the CBA website http://www.castbulletassoc.org/forum/view_forum.php?id=48

[geargnasher]

Molly--Since shotshell loads were mentioned, I thought I'd add that I have developed some surprisingly successfull shot loads for the .32 S&W Long using the milk jug shotcup that I demonstrated here http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=77286&highlight=shotshell+work

I'd love to see how that would work in a rifle. If you're interested I can dig up my dimensional drawings of the tools and shotcup pattern, I made a set for another member here and tested it in my own pocket revolver, but he has the tools themselves.

Don't tempt me on that 219 like that, not nice!

Gear

[Molly]

Gnasher,

>Molly--Since shotshell loads were mentioned, I thought I'd add that I have developed some surprisingly successfull shot loads for the .32 S&W Long using the milk jug shotcup that I demonstrated
I'd love to see how that would work in a rifle. If you're interested I can dig up my dimensional drawings of the tools and shotcup pattern, I made a set for another member here and tested it in my own pocket revolver, but he has the tools themselves.

Really neat, and a great read. I hadn't planned to make shot loads in the .32, but I AM impressed by the uniformity of your shot distribution. But first, I've gotta get the rifle built.

One similar trick I've been wanting to try out is medicine capsules full of shot. They're made in all sorts of diameters and lengths. Ditto for thin wall plastic tubing like Tygon.

>Don't tempt me on that 219 like that, not nice!

Well, when I was browsing today, I noticed a whole handful of 219's for sale on Gunbroker, but the sellers seem to like them a lot more than I do, to judge from their prices - even for some pretty rough examples. I just couldn't bring myself to come between them and something they liked so much. Ain't I the nice guy?

[Buckshot]

...............It would seem to me that the SS break open shotgun would be the least expensive and most readily available means to go with. Even for a prototypeing experiment. The ejectors they are normally fitted with would be readily adaptable to the rimmed 32 Smith case. Ideally it'd be a .410, but I'm sure there are 10x as many 20 ga, and 100x as many 12ga examples out there.

I'd shorten the shotgun bbl to 20" and then figure on maybe a 10 to 14" bbl for the 32 S&W L cartridge. How best to fit the new barrel (permanent or not) would be open to conjecture. I know they make 22RF bbl inserts for the full sized 40 and 45 caliber RB's and Sharps rifles and they shoot very well and they're obviously removeable, if that was of interest.

..............Buckshot

[gnoahhh]

In my opinion (which is often worth about as much as a bucket of warm spit) if you're going to go to the expense and hassle of building a specialty gun, why not start out with something classy and put as much sweat equity into it as you can so as to end up with something to treasure and be proud to show off? I would opt for a small Martini action or a Stevens 44. Most .22 actions just don't have the moxie to withstand a lot of CF pressure- even if you keep the loads on the light side, sooner or later some schmuck will own it and try to hot rod it and then wish he hadn't. Break-open rifles made from el-cheapo shotgun actions just never turned me on, but like I said that's just the opinion of an opinionated old bastard.

I think the .32 Long in a rifle is a wonderful idea and have been threatening to do it myself for a long time. Keep us apprised of what you end up doing. It may well get me off my butt and do likewise.

[Artful]

While you could use many actons, I have seen old leveraction Marlins in that chambering that I would look for. As a matter of fact I think the last one I saw was 32 rimfire and 32 long - required you to change firing pins in the bolt.

[Larry Gibson]

A TC Contender carbine would be really handy. I recently saw a custom barrel in .32 ACP sold on another forum. I would get a blank with the correct groove depth and twist and send it to one of several places. I was going to order the Contender carbine barrel in .30 carbine until I found the twist was 10". efer a 16 or 18" twist for the .30 carbine and thing the same would be best for a .32S&WL also, probably the .32 H&R also.

Larry Gibson

[cuzinbruce]

If you look around, you might find a Savage 219 in 32/20. That would be sweet!

[dbldblu]

I have a contender carbine barrel in .32 long. Actually I call it 30 long as the groove diameter is .308. It is very accurate with cast sized to .310". The Lee soupcan works especially well in spite of the 1 in 10 twist.

[ricksplace]

I built a rifle for a friend in 32 long about two years ago. I used a Lee Enfield (either No1 Mk3 or No4Mk1or2). I removed the barrel, which incidently is the correct bore diameter for the 32 long, and cut off the chamber area. Unfortunately, when the chamber area is removed, there is not enough "meat" left on the barrel to re-thread. I machined down the barrel to remove the taper, and made a 1.25" bushing for threading into the action. I bore the bushing .0005 smaller than the diameter of the barrel. I put the barrel into the deep freeze, and after a few hours when it's frozen, I heat up the bushing nice and red, then drop it onto the frozen barrel. The bushing just drops on to the barrel. When the two pieces reach the same temperature, a small nuclear device won't separate them. Regardless, I still make a small tack weld on the underside of the barrel.

I used a boring bar to cut the chamber and the throat. Pretty small boring bar, so a lot of very light cuts are necessary. A chambering reamer would have been a lot easier.

To make a long story somewhat shorter, I had to re-clock the front sight. I did it by eye, and touched a little silver solder to it. The damn thing shot dead on at 20 meters with the rear peep sight at the 100yd. mark. The extractor, once modified for the 32 long rim, pulls the case out of the chamber and drops it straight down through the magazine well. My friend puts a small tupperware container under the rifle when shooting from the bench to catch the empties. When he shoots it in the field, he puts an empty 303 magazine (minus the spring and follower) into the mag well. The empty mag box catches the empties.

I'm told that it shoots 32 acp as well as 32 longs and shorts. As the 32 acp is a semi-rimmed case, it headspaces ok when used in a rifle (a little sloppy).

Anyway, we both call it "the ugly stick". Beat up mil stock, stubby barrel, and a blast to shoot.

[gnoahhh]

Well that's pretty cool! I would have never thought to use a .303 Brit barrel, and the shrink-fit knoxform is ingenious.

[Molly]

...............It would seem to me that the SS break open shotgun would be the least expensive and most readily available means to go with. ..............Buckshot

Yeah, but I can't seem to FIND one except for the heavy Toppers. Suggestions? Brand names?

[Molly]

>I would opt for a small Martini action or a Stevens 44.

I HAVE a small martini. Problem is, it's already set up as a 3-caliber switch barrel gun. The other problem is that it's hard to scope, and my eyes don't like iron sights any more. Probably gonna have to sell it, when I can bring myself to it.

>Most .22 actions just don't have the moxie to withstand a lot of CF pressure- even if you keep the loads on the light side, sooner or later some schmuck will own it and try to hot rod it and then wish he hadn't.

Yeah, but the Remington action has six lugs. If I could find one that someone had run over with a truck ...

>Break-open rifles made from el-cheapo shotgun actions just never turned me on,

Yeah, me too, but cost really is a significant factor. And I've read reports that they really do quite well.

>I think the .32 Long in a rifle is a wonderful idea and have been threatening to do it myself for a long time. Keep us apprised of what you end up doing. It may well get me off my butt and do likewise.

Made one up on a Rem #4 RB once (sorta), but kept it at .32 RF ballistics. I'd like to make one that I can tie a can to once in a while, without worrying about it coming apart on me. The #4 isn't the strongest action in the world. BTW, you can read about it in the rimfire forum, under the "Duplicating the .32 RF" thread. Sure wish I'd kept it. I DO have a Uberti RB pistol that would make a sweet rifle, but it would take a LOT of work.

[Molly]

While you could use many actons, I have seen old leveraction Marlins in that chambering that I would look for. As a matter of fact I think the last one I saw was 32 rimfire and 32 long - required you to change firing pins in the bolt.

Yep. One of the first things I looked for. Collectors think a lot more of them than I ever will.

[NoZombies]

Those old Marlins are also in .32 colt or 32 rimfire (at least the colt is reloadable, but just try fining brass... I dare ya :p )

I've got an early 90's vintage norinco jw-15 that has locking lugs as well, overbuilt for a .22, not sure how easy something like that would be to convert though.

[Molly]

Those old Marlins are also in .32 colt or 32 rimfire (at least the colt is reloadable, but just try fining brass... I dare ya :p )

I've got an early 90's vintage norinco jw-15 that has locking lugs as well, overbuilt for a .22, not sure how easy something like that would be to convert though.

Actually, I might be interested in the JW-15 if you're looking to sell it. Don't know what you'd want for it though. Marstar in Canada can't ship Chinese guns to the US, but they have a new price there of $159 Canadian.

BTW, congratulations on the wedding that's in your near future.

[NoZombies]

Hey Molly, Thanks for the offer, I would, but it's got two things that prevent me from selling it, the first is that it's the first gun my dad and I ever shot together (I got it new in 92 when I was 13... makes you feel old huh?) And the second is that it's literally the most accurate gun I've ever shot, and regularly see sub 1/4" groups at 100 yards.

[Frank46]

Molly, what about the romanian cugir 22rf single shot rifle action?. Its big enough and is a single shot. Try allan's armory at gunboards.com for pics as I believe he has some for sale. Somewhere I seem to remember someone converting one to shoot center fire cartridges. This is not the little romanian trainers with the 5 shot mag. Two locking lugs at the rear of the bolt. One is the bolt handle itself and a smaller one opposite the bolt handle. Frank

[gnoahhh]

"...sub 1/4" groups at 100 yds." This is a .22 LR, right?:holysheep Please say that was a typo! If it wasn't, that rifle should be enshrined somewhere.

[NoZombies]

Yeah, it has to be a calm day, and I use match ammo, but 1/4" and smaller groups are pretty common with the gun. Sadly it was later in life (like age 14) that I realized not all guns where that accurate. I haven't had it out in a while... and probably wont for a while yet... but I really enjoy shooting the gun a lot, at least as much for sentimental reasons as the accuracy.

[Molly]

Molly, what about the romanian cugir 22rf single shot rifle action?. Its big enough and is a single shot. Try allan's armory at gunboards.com for pics as I believe he has some for sale. Somewhere I seem to remember someone converting one to shoot center fire cartridges. This is not the little romanian trainers with the 5 shot mag. Two locking lugs at the rear of the bolt. One is the bolt handle itself and a smaller one opposite the bolt handle. Frank

OK Frank, I need some guidance here. I think the Cugir trainer with the 5 shot clip is the M. 65 and / or the M. 1956. I've done some searching, and those are the only Romanian traniners I can find. Got a model number, or a link to the the specific rifle yoou are thinking of? I'd sure appreciate some more info. Meanwhile, I'll go back to allan's armory at gunboards.com and search some more.

[Frank46]

Molly, these are not the little romanian trainers with the 5 shot mags. They are more of a man sized 22 single shot bolt action. Since the mag isn't there the receiver bottom is solid. Should be able to convert to your 32 cartridge. Allan's armory so far is the only dealer that I am aware of that has them. BBl is pressed in and has a cross pin through the receiver and bbl. Has a rather long bbl and from the one I saw
at a gun show could be rebored to 32 cal (.312 caliber or .308) Darned if I can remember who or where I either saw or read what caliber it was reworked into. Has a man sized stock so if you do rebarrel you could open it up slightly. Wish I could give more info. The receiver does have CUGIR stamped on the top of the receiver ring.

Molly just went back to allain's armory, did not see the large single shot cugir trainers in any of his listings.. Guess he sold out. I've only seen one at a local gun show so I know they are out there. Another suggestion would to look into the polish
wz series of moisin nagant trainers. Looks like its parent rifle but only in 22rf, Frank

[shaggist]

Look at my post in the 'rimfire' section about using the Winchester Model 37 .410 as a platform for a .32. Relining the barrel should be easy and the extractor/ejector should work well, but may require a little bit of adjustment. Let me know what you think, as I haven't converted mine YET, but am seriously considering doing it.

[Molly]

While I agree that the #4 is not the strongest action in the world, it handles the 308 win, 444 marlin, 223, 32 H&R mag, 357 mag, 44 mag. These I know it will handle since I have built rifles on a #4 in each of these calibres. Obviously stay away from belted magnums...

I think that either you are mistaken about the action you have been working with, or you have a sense of humor that could result in some serious legal problems for you. The #4 Remington Rolling Block action was a dinky little toy used exclusively for light boys guns by Remington, who should know its limitations. Others who have worked with this action report difficulty getting a .32 H&R Mag to chamber past the hammer, and have expressed the opinion that even a 327 round could not be made to work. In order to chamber the larger rounds you claim to have used in the #4, one would have to partially disassemble the rifle to remove the breechblock and hammer, insert the round, and then reassemble it to fire.

[Molly]

Look at my post in the 'rimfire' section about using the Winchester Model 37 .410 as a platform for a .32. Relining the barrel should be easy and the extractor/ejector should work well, but may require a little bit of adjustment. Let me know what you think, as I haven't converted mine YET, but am seriously considering doing it.

Sleeving a 410 for the .32 S&W Long is quite feasable, and has been done repeatedly. I wish I could find one of those slender pre-war 410's for my own use.

[Bullshop]

I have a blued/walnut Ruger 77 hornet that just will not shoot well. I have been wondering if it may work for a 32 conversion. Might even be able to get the rotary mag to feed with a bit of shaping.
What yall think?

[NoZombies]

While I agree that the #4 is not the strongest action in the world, it handles the 308 win, 444 marlin, 223, 32 H&R mag, 357 mag, 44 mag. These I know it will handle since I have built rifles on a #4 in each of these calibres. Obviously stay away from belted magnums...



I can only assume that you mean the #5 Action! the #4 action would leave so little barrel shank for a 308 or 44 that you could probably see through it!

I wouldn't put a .32 magnum in one, for fear of it coming apart if someone loaded full power factory ammo in it.

[ricksplace]

I can only assume that you mean the #5 Action! the #4 action would leave so little barrel shank for a 308 or 44 that you could probably see through it!

I wouldn't put a .32 magnum in one, for fear of it coming apart if someone loaded full power factory ammo in it.

My Mistake!!! My orignal post spoke of the #4 Mk1 or 2 Lee Enfield, not a Remington Rolling Block. That is what I misread on the post to which I was responding. I have no experience whatsoever with rolling block actions, but quite a bit with SMLE's. Up here we have the habit of calling a SMLE #4 mk1 or mk2 simply a "#4".

Moderator -can you delete my original post? The time has run out on my ability to revise it.

Please accept my apology for my stupid error. Mea Culpa.

<Post deleted at member's request>

[shaggist]

Molly,
Where's the best place to look for a liner for one of these .410s? Googling doesn't tell you anything about the suppliers and their products-what works well and what doesn't.

[Molly]

I have a blued/walnut Ruger 77 hornet that just will not shoot well. I have been wondering if it may work for a 32 conversion. Might even be able to get the rotary mag to feed with a bit of shaping.
What yall think?

All day long, my friend. All day long. Go for it

[Molly]

My Mistake!!! ... Up here we have the habit of calling a SMLE #4 mk1 or mk2 simply a "#4".
Please accept my apology for my stupid error. Mea Culpa.

No, I can see your post was accurate, if not sufficiently detailed. You didn't say 'Rolling Block', so the mistake was mine, for assuming what you did NOT say.
My apologies.

Molly

[Molly]

Molly,
Where's the best place to look for a liner for one of these .410s? Googling doesn't tell you anything about the suppliers and their products-what works well and what doesn't.

Actually, I'd recommend that you contact John Taylor on this web site, as he has considerable experience with relining to .32 Long. I'm sure he will do a fine job with yours, or, if that's not quite what you're looking for, he'll help with contacts for liners. Good luck.

[ricksplace]

No, I can see your post was accurate, if not sufficiently detailed. You didn't say 'Rolling Block', so the mistake was mine, for assuming what you did NOT say.
My apologies.

Molly

Man, this is the most polite site on the net!! Kinda reminds me of the two chipmunks "Chip and Dale" who were always trying to behave with perfect manners.

Besides the Phd education available here in boolit casting and shooting, the folks here are civilized and downright friendly!

[scrapcan]

ricksplace,

you have found out the truth about this place, and as you stay longer you will find that it gets better. Thanks for sharing what you know on the SMLE conversions.

[MNruss]

I've wanted something like this for years.
I finally am getting a Contender barrel made, with twist & dia recommendations from C E 'Ed' Harris.
The waiting is killing me!
Already thinking about the next project - I have a .303 barrel from a No 4 Mk1 that I cut a releif groove around to remove for a 45 ACP project & have a small pre-war "44 shot" H&R's, but it has full-cock issues.
My big problem is - No Time!:-?
Regards -
Russ

[Frank46]

Molly, just checked allan's armory web site. They have the romanian CUGIR single shot 22rf rifles I told you about. Hope this helps. Frank

[Molly]

Molly, just checked allan's armory web site. They have the romanian CUGIR single shot 22rf rifles I told you about. Hope this helps. Frank

Yes, I was really excited to see that, but I found a picture of the front of the CUGIR bolt. Durn thing's not too much bigger than the firing pin hole, and I don't think it has a chance at handling a .32 rim.

[shaggist]

How much trouble and expense would be involved in reboring, rifling, and rechambering a single shot, break-top, .22 to .32 S&W Long? Rather than lining a .410 to .32, how about going up the other way? There are a number these rifles around at relatively small expense.

[NoZombies]

How much trouble and expense would be involved in reboring, rifling, and rechambering a single shot, break-top, .22 to .32 S&W Long? Rather than lining a .410 to .32, how about going up the other way? There are a number these rifles around at relatively small expense.

I'm not 100% sure, but I'd bet that if there's enough meat on the original barrel to do it, boring and lining would probably cheaper than reboring and rifling, but I'm still not sure it'd be practical, especially with the added expense and, or, hassle of doing the CF conversion at the same time. I could be wrong there. What I know is that I can install a liner, reboring and rifling are way beyond my equipment and capabilities.

The idea of using one of those actions isn't a bad one, that's for sure!

Hopefully Molly will be able to get this project going sometime soon, I look forward to seeing his Progress, as I'll only be able to watch such progress, and not make any of my own for a while.

[smkummer]

One is for sale right now on one of the auction boards. Its small and chambered for 32 rimfire. Don't know if you could go much above 32 S&W (short) power though.

[Molly]

Hi fellows,

I'm happy to report that I found a nice Savage-Stevens M94C (410) that is enroute to John Taylor for a .32 liner right now. Thanks for all the suggestions.

[shaggist]

Since Molly has found his conversion platform, I would like to share some thoughts about other possibilities. I have 2-single shot, SS, Rossi break-top rifles, that are no longer made by them. One began life as a .357 Magnum, which I had re-chambered to .357 Maximum. It is all stainless steel and handles the increased pressures with no noticeable problems yet. It is decently accurate and only weighs about 4.5 lbs.

The other is the same model in .22 RF. It, too, shoots well enough to plink aluminum cans at 75 yds.

Rossi makes a combination package, .22 RF/.410 shotgun, in SS and in blued. The shotgun barrel could be lined and rechambered for any of the .32 CF cartridges that are of interest in these conversions-.32 S&W, .32 S&W Long, .32 Colt, .32-20, .32 H&R Magnum, as these actions are strong enough for the cartridges in my opinion.

Look on Gunbroker and Auction Arms for the combo packages. They are relatively inexpensive, and would make a light, low maintenance, woods gun, that can be carried in the truck without worrying about it getting beat up. You don't have to spend alot of money, and you get a gun that incorporates modern steels in a handy, light-weight package.

[DIRT Farmer]

Molly, I have just scored a 32 rim fire Remmington rolling block over the weekend, all origonal. The barrel is fairly rough for the first 3-4 inches. Now it is desion time. Some of the guys said I had the perfect platform for a 38-55 but I like this idea of a 32. I will slug the throat and barrel. I think an oversize bullet may work after a lead lap. So many ideas. If playing with it does not work I will be looking for a reline and chamber job. One final point would it be a good idea to drill the block for center fire or try to find another block.

[wills]

Reloadable .32 rimfire brass
http://www.dixiegunworks.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=.32+rimfire&x=5&y=5

I am considering these for the rolling block

[Molly]

Molly, I have just scored a 32 rim fire Remmington rolling block over the weekend, all origonal. The barrel is fairly rough for the first 3-4 inches. Now it is desion time. Some of the guys said I had the perfect platform for a 38-55 but I like this idea of a 32. I will slug the throat and barrel. I think an oversize bullet may work after a lead lap. So many ideas. If playing with it does not work I will be looking for a reline and chamber job. One final point would it be a good idea to drill the block for center fire or try to find another block.

The FIRST thing you need to do is post a picture so we can tell you what kind of action it is. If it's a #4, it's not safe for anything but a .22 IMHO.

[DIRT Farmer]

Wills I will look into the Dixie cases, they should tell me if I have a barrel that will work or not.

Molly, I am not so good with a computer or camera but I have a caliper and can mesure. The action appears to be slightly smaller than I rember the Egiption 43 I had years ago.
Action pins .45 and 1.47 on center
blocks .717 wide
Where the barrel screws in the action1.65
Barrel at the breach face .90
barrel in front of action,1.15 .91 at the muzzle and is 30 inches long.
Action along bottom line is3.975
The only markings on the gun are E Remmington & Sons Ilion N.Y. Serial #10xxx

[Baron von Trollwhack]

I built such a rifle on a R 580 action, converted to centerfire with an Argentine rifle barrel. Worked well. Twist was not good for anything over abour 500fps. PM if intrested in the remains. BvT

[fourarmed]

Adding to what Buckshot said, you could get a piece of .30 caliber barrel and turn it to fit the chamber of the shotgun, and chamber it to .32.

[Molly]

Well, the moon has waxed and waned several times since I last posted, so it's more than time to make a final report.

John Taylor did a fine job lining the 410 shotgun barrel, and it was a real thing of beauty when I got it back. But for some reason it wouldn't stay on a gallon can at 25 yards! John offered to reline it at no charge, but I didn't want to put him to that trouble unless absolutely necessary. It was necessary. I checked it for loose scope bases & mounts, loose stock screws, and even changed the scope with little to no improvement.

When I got it back from John the second time, it was a LOT better: Now it shot palm sized groups at 25 yards. John's work seemed absolutely perfect, and there was no apparent fault in the rifle, but the darn thing just wouldn't shoot. I tried light bullets, medium bullets, and heavy weight bullets. I tried high velocity and low velocity. I DID get one tight group, but the velocity was so high that any squirrel hit with it would have become a pink mist drifting through the leaves. That wasn't what I was looking for. And there wasn't anything wrong that either John or I could find!

In desperation, I speculated that the reason for poor accuracy MIGHT be inconsistent bedding, so I test fired it with the forend off. That did the trick! An un-optimized load chosen at random (2.2g HP-38 under 3118) would almost keep them touchng at 50 yards, while the best I did previously was 'palm-of-hand' groups at 25 yards. Now I have to drill and tap the barrel to attach the forearm, and glass bed it in. But LORDY, it was a pain to work the problem out and find the cause!

And does that load have a curved trajectory! Sighted in at 25 yards, it drops something like 16 inches at 100 yards. Still accurate though. I'm going to have to try some lighter bullets. But I'm getting good, repeatable accuracy now, so it's all downhill from here!

[lil_bandit]

i talked to john taylor and i have a nice tight excellent #4 remington rolling block take down model in a .32 rimfire and i am going to have it chambered in the 32 s&w he says it can be done and i have 2 more just like it i think these would be great squirrel riffles in the 32 short and if it turns out to shoot goos in 32 i will convert the others plus if anyone needs .32 rifire shells i have some and can get more they are navy arm brand.

[gew98]

I've dreamed of a 32 S &W long caliber lever gun that would handle 32 shorts as well. I love the 32 pistol caliber.. so under rated !.
I have a few of those MARBLES 32 S&W converters for 303 british and man they are accurate , quiet and no shortage of fun either !.

[lil_bandit]

from what i hear the 32 s&w short in a rifle hardly has any repot when fired very quiet i bet these would be spectacular guns.and the a lever gun a + having multiple rounds to kick out would be a wild cat rifle and a good one

[gew98]

You betcha they are super quiet... I shot a squirrel once at over 80 yards and it looked like a tornado whisked him from the tree. And when recovered was not shredded... quite fit for the pot !. My Patt'14 does extremely well with the Marbles converter... it put many a squirrel and rabbit in the pot when I was a younger !.

[gew98]

You know that makes me wonder now that if a guy had a spare Marlin 94 in 357 cal , and made a wildcat 357 necked down to 32 cal and a barrel lined for it ... oh man must resist , must resist !.

[John Taylor]

You know that makes me wonder now that if a guy had a spare Marlin 94 in 357 cal , and made a wildcat 357 necked down to 32 cal and a barrel lined for it ... oh man must resist , must resist !.

Why not just go with the 32-20 so you can get brass or loaded ammo?

Molly, I was just getting ready to ask how the little rifle was doing. Glad you found the problem, I would still be scratching my head.
I have two more in the works just like yours. Still have not got around to doing my own.

[gew98]

Why not just go with the 32-20 so you can get brass or loaded ammo?

Molly, I was just getting ready to ask how the little rifle was doing. Glad you found the problem, I would still be scratching my head.
I have two more in the works just like yours. Still have not got around to doing my own.

Does the rim of the 32/20 have the like dimensions to be useable in a 94 Marlin in 357 cal ?. Only 32/20 I ever had was a wheelgun some decades ago.

[John Taylor]

Does the rim of the 32/20 have the like dimensions to be useable in a 94 Marlin in 357 cal ?. Only 32/20 I ever had was a wheelgun some decades ago.

It was a standard chamber in the old 94s along with 25-20, 38-40 and 44-40. If you already have a 357 then the bolt will not work unless it is worked over some.

[Molly]

You know that makes me wonder now that if a guy had a spare Marlin 94 in 357 cal , and made a wildcat 357 necked down to 32 cal and a barrel lined for it ... oh man must resist , must resist !.

Why not pick up a lever 30-30 and just put squib loads through it for squirrel? It'd be a lot easier and cheaper, and works just fine.

The justification for the SS rifle (besides the fact that I simply wanted it) was that it would be a companion piece for several 32 revolvers I have. They run the gamut from .32 S&W to .32 S&W Long and .32 H&R Mag. My rifle will work with all of them, and I'm struggling hard not to buy a .327 Mag.

Off topic, but if you want to have some real fun with the .32 S&W, try loading a mess of ammo with about 1/2 to 3/4 grain of HP38 and a 00 buckshot for the grandkids to play with. Seat the buckshot flush with the mouth of the case, and lube by rubbing some grease in the small recess this creates. VERY low noise, NO recoil and surprisingly good accuracy. It's an absolute ball for tin cans! And a 38 S&W loaded the same way with 1.0g HP38 and a 000 buckshot is just as much fun.

(Remember that men are not rational creatures. We are rational-ising critters. We can think of a reason for anything we want to have or do!) (BG)

[Molly]

Hi John,


Why not just go with the 32-20 so you can get brass or loaded ammo?

John, I've had 32-20's, and they're OK, but the brass is really thin and easily damaged. And a 32-20 rifle just calls for one more set of dies and cases. And of course, I'd have to pick up another 32-20 revolver ... The 32 H&R will do the same job, and a bit easier, and I can use the same ammo on both rifle and my current pistols.

Molly, I was just getting ready to ask how the little rifle was doing. Glad you found the problem, I would still be scratching my head. I have two more in the works just like yours.

It sure came close to driving me nuts too! If I could suggest, you might want to make a screw-on forearm alteration a standard if you do any more like mine.

Still have not got around to doing my own.

Quote: "The auto mechanic nearly always drives a clunker because he's too busy fixing customer cars to fix his own." (BG)

[358wcf]

Yup, I know the feeling- just bought ANOTHER Marlin 94 in 357mag, as well as ANOTHER Rossi M92 in 357mag, for some reason or other- nice to have extras in the gun room for some reason, right? They go in there with the EXTRA Martini Cadets, just keeping them for some reason or other- Looking at all those fine little rifles makes me want to make something special, like my Westley Richards Martini Cadet bored out to 357mag- what a fine little beasty she is! 6 coastal blacktail deer have met their fate, as well as countless small game. Why do I do this, when I have a fine little Model 53 Browning in 32WCF with a Lyman receiver sight that puts groundsquirrels to sleep (very deep sleep) inside 100 yards?

Small game rifles are a wonderful thing, easy to carry, easy on the ears when shot, easy on the wallet when loading, just easy to be around. Try packing a heavy rifle on a leisurely walk in the woods some time- no fun at all. You'll end up sitting under a tree waiting for the game to show itself. Far more fun to listen for game moving, stalk within "can't miss" range, and take home the prize. Sure, you'll miss some, but man, you're having FUN.
Makes me wish I was young again, those little rifles do---

Yup, I know the feeling-

Chuck
358wcf [smilie=1:[smilie=1:[smilie=1:

[Molly]

... Small game rifles are a wonderful thing, easy to carry, easy on the ears when shot, easy on the wallet when loading, just easy to be around. Try packing a heavy rifle on a leisurely walk in the woods some time- no fun at all. You'll end up sitting under a tree waiting for the game to show itself. Far more fun to listen for game moving, stalk within "can't miss" range, and take home the prize. Sure, you'll miss some, but man, you're having FUN. Makes me wish I was young again, those little rifles do---
Yup, I know the feeling-
Chuck
358wcf

Part of my own education as a young man came when I fell in love with a heavy barreled 45-70 rolling block. It weighed more than 18 pounds, but was a ball at the rifle range. So I took it deer hunting. ONCE! I was almost ready to leave it in the woods by the time I managed to pack it back out! (BG) I wuz dumb 'nough to try it, but I wuzn't stupid enough to do it agin! Ol' Ben Franklin once observed that "Experience keeps a dear (expensive) school, but fools will learn in no other." That observation has come to my mind on an uncomfortable number of poignant occasions!

[nanuk]

I would absolutely LOVE a SS in 32H&R, even 327Mag....

I wonder if one could get this conversion in Canada for under $1000....

[Molly]

I would absolutely LOVE a SS in 32H&R, even 327Mag....

I wonder if one could get this conversion in Canada for under $1000....

Wish I knew enough about Canadian gun laws to advise you, but all I can suggest is that you do NOT try to get one made here and shipped to you. Border agents in Canada do not have a sense of humor or understanding when it comes to firearms.

On the other hand, there have to be plenty of 410 break-open shotguns in Canada. Why not drop in on the nearest Canadian gunsmith and discuss it with him?

[nanuk]

Molly, I think that is my option...

unfortunately an expensive one... but an option.

[John Taylor]

Wish I knew enough about Canadian gun laws to advise you, but all I can suggest is that you do NOT try to get one made here and shipped to you. Border agents in Canada do not have a sense of humor or understanding when it comes to firearms.


It's not the Canadian side that's the problem, new homeland security won't let you send any out of the country. A while back a fellow from Canada sent a Siamese Mouser for repair. He had made all the phone calls and had letters from the BATF and dept. of state that it was fine to send it for repair. I had all the copies of letters and his registration from Canada. When I sent it back to him with copies of all the letters and other papers it got seized by U.S. customs. I got a letter saying I had to appear in court for violating the home land security act. It took about 5 months to get things straitened out. Seems that if a firearm comes into the U.S. it can't leave unless you have the proper license which cost $2,500.00 a year. All that for a 90 year old rifle that was worth about $300.
I guess they are afraid that someone will use that old Mouser in 45-70 to start a war with the U.S.

[Molly]

... I got a letter saying I had to appear in court for violating the home land security act. ...

Good Lord! Is there nobody in our government that has the sense God gave a goose?

[R.M.]

So how do competitive target shooters get to take their guns to a match out of country?

[Molly]

So how do competitive target shooters get to take their guns to a match out of country?

And how about African safaris? Gotta buy your guns there I guess. Then they won't let you bring them home without an importation license.

[John Taylor]

Good Lord! Is there nobody in our government that has the sense God gave a goose?

I forgot to add that I was lucky to find someone in the gov. that walked me through all the paper work and I got a one time waver for the rifle. The owner got his rifle back, only took five months. I had to laugh at one of the questions, county of origin, I was temped to put down that it no longer existed.

[exile]

When is H & R going to make a Handi-rifle in .327 Federal?

exile

[FrankG]

Molly , your li'l pop gun got my wheels spinnin ! I went to shop and dug around and found an ol 'Moniter' singleshot shotgun action , 12ga I believe . Pretty fair shape although nickle plated :) A little further rummaging and I come up with a 7.7 Jap barrel that has most of chamber cut off . Now to make a long bushing/sleeve, make a underlug and extractor . As to caliber .....32 ACP or 32 S&W ??

[Molly]

Just so folks know I'm not ignoring you Frank, I want to let them know we've been talking via PM.

[EMC45]

I have an old 1909 Mauser with a .312 barrel I am about to remove........Should make a nice "project" barrel.

[FrankG]

Just so folks know I'm not ignoring you Frank, I want to let them know we've been talking via PM.

And you have been very helpful .:-D

[John Taylor]

My lucky day, my brother called and said he had an old single shot 410 that he was going to give me. That is as soon as I return the two rifles that I am working on for him.

[FrankG]

Dug through my junk a little more an come up with the barrel for the action :-P Now the fun begins !!

[FrankG]

Yer a bad influence Molly :bigsmyl2: Got the barrel stubbed off at forcing cone and bored chamber along with forcing cone out just enough for sliding barrel in . I turned a little shoulder on back end of barrel to fit in rim recess thats left of chamber for 12 ga. rim . Ill just use acraglass to hold barrel in stub, should suffice for 32-20 . Figgered since I have dies for that round and a mould , why not ?

Ill have to figger a way to knock the plating off or try some guncote .

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b74/ModocWrangler/Falling%20block/RatGun/ratgun001.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b74/ModocWrangler/Falling%20block/RatGun/ratgun003.jpg

[John Taylor]

Yer a bad influence Molly :bigsmyl2: Got the barrel stubbed off at forcing cone and bored chamber along with forcing cone out just enough for sliding barrel in . I turned a little shoulder on back end of barrel to fit in rim recess thats left of chamber for 12 ga. rim . Ill just use acraglass to hold barrel in stub, should suffice for 32-20 . Figgered since I have dies for that round and a mould , why not ?

Ill have to figger a way to knock the plating off or try some guncote .

You might chuck it up and give a nice radius cut on the mono block to blend into the new barrel. Make it look purdy! Looken good so far.

[Molly]

Yer a bad influence Molly :bigsmyl2: Got the barrel stubbed off at forcing cone and bored chamber along with forcing cone out just enough for sliding barrel in . I turned a little shoulder on back end of barrel to fit in rim recess thats left of chamber for 12 ga. rim . Ill just use acraglass to hold barrel in stub, should suffice for 32-20 . Figgered since I have dies for that round and a mould , why not ?
Ill have to figger a way to knock the plating off or try some guncote .


As John said, looking good! And yeah, accraglass will hold a 32-20 like the rock of Gibraltar. One little note though: The receiver finish isn't plating. It's color case hardening. It'll come off easy as pie with a little bit of phosphoric acid or naval jelly. Or with any blue / corrosion cleaner. "CLP" outta do it almost as fast as you can wipe it on too.

When you go to refinish it, use a good cold blue like Oxphoblue. Caustic tanks will turn it a pruplish-red.

[FrankG]

This'n doesnt have the color case finish unless its under the nickle plate thats peeling off . Its nickled like on old 32 pocket peestol. I may just clean it up with a flap wheel and use some of the bake on finish on receiver if I cant get all nickle out of nooks and crannies. Yup ! That Oxpho is super stuff ! Especially after bead blasting and warming metal a little :)

Got the radious cut on stub where it meets barrel and its glassed on barrel and curing in sun . Its warmer outside than in shop !

[Molly]

This'n doesnt have the color case finish unless its under the nickle plate thats peeling off . Its nickled like on old 32 pocket peestol. I may just clean it up with a flap wheel and use some of the bake on finish on receiver if I cant get all nickle out of nooks and crannies. Yup ! That Oxpho is super stuff ! Especially after bead blasting and warming metal a little :)

Got the radious cut on stub where it meets barrel and its glassed on barrel and curing in sun . Its warmer outside than in shop !

Well, you've got it in hand, so you ought to know. If so, you might want to check with a local plating shop: I have a fading memory that nickle plate won't stick to steel, but it will stick fine to copper. So platers will plate the steel with copper (which sticks fine) first and THEN with nickle. Going on a fading memory here, but I seem to rember this was part of an answer to a guy whose nickle revolver was peeling after he'd coated it with a bore solvent that was supposed to attach jacketed fouling. It didn't happen fast, but it was sure.

Well, enough rambling. I'd take it to a plating shop before I did anything else. They'll know how to get it off right, and probably won't charge an arm and a leg to do it for you.

[FrankG]

Closest shop for that is 80 miles from here.

[Molly]

Closest shop for that is 80 miles from here.

I can see the problem, but a phone call is cheap, and postage isn't that bad. It's legal to ship part of a gun for repairs or refinishing. Shoot, I THINK you can mail the entire gun, but if it's the whole gun, it'd better be to a FFL licensee.

John Taylor, how about some guidance?

[Mk42gunner]

FrankG,

Let me preface this by stating that I haven't done it, but I have read that old plating can be removed by using a process similar to the electrolysis cleaning method.

I do not rmember what chemical you need to suspend the parts in, but it seems like it was a fairly common one, of course that was a few years ago when you could stil buy cough medicine without signing your life away.

Robert

[FrankG]

Been doin some reading and found where muratic acid can be used but you end up with the copper plate left . Also said you could sandblast to remove it which would remove copper also . I have a blaster so may give that a go .

[Molly]

Been doin some reading and found where muratic acid can be used but you end up with the copper plate left . Also said you could sandblast to remove it which would remove copper also . I have a blaster so may give that a go .

Ummm ... 'Lessn I miss my guess, that will give you a pretty good etch on the underlying steel too, which could make opening and closing slightly rough until it's broken in smooth again ... Just a thought.

[FrankG]

Yup , it will . Ill mask in any areas that are bearing surfaces like when doing bolt guns .

Im more concerned with the ugly peeling on the sides from being knocked around for 100 years .

[Molly]

Yup , it will . Ill mask in any areas that are bearing surfaces like when doing bolt guns .

Im more concerned with the ugly peeling on the sides from being knocked around for 100 years .

Can you say 'surface grinder'?

[justashooter]

20-40% sulfuric acid in a glass bowl. lead plate with surface area about equal to part to be deplated. copper wires from lead plate and part, which is suspended in solution above plate. positive side of a 12 volt battery or charger at 10 amps to the workpiece and negative end to the plate. works fast and makes some fume, so do it outside. eats nickle and chrome, obliterates aluminum, ignores copper, brass, gold, etc. mildly etches steel left in for long periods after plating is gone. nice to dip parts in a chromic acid bath between sulfuric bath and water rinse, but not necessary if steel will be polished or otherwise surfaced after removal of plating.

[justashooter]

how about an ithaca 49 as a donor gun? this is an aluminum framed martini type 22 rf single shot rifle. converting to cf would be easy enuf. the quex is, would the aluminum action be up to snuff for 32 long?

[John Taylor]

I can see the problem, but a phone call is cheap, and postage isn't that bad. It's legal to ship part of a gun for repairs or refinishing. Shoot, I THINK you can mail the entire gun, but if it's the whole gun, it'd better be to a FFL licensee.

John Taylor, how about some guidance?

The frame has the S/N which is the part classified as a firearm.It can be sent to any FFL holder for repair and directly back to the sender or another FFL.
A smith I worked for many years ago said that acid was used to remove nickel. But first the acid was given a heavy diet of steel or iron till it would not dissolve any more. This way the nickel came off without attacking the base metal. Also it can be taken off by reversing the polarity in a plating tank but this may attack the frame also. Best to call a shop that does nickel plating and get the strait dope.

[John Taylor]

how about an ithaca 49 as a donor gun? this is an aluminum framed martini type 22 rf single shot rifle. converting to cf would be easy enuf. the quex is, would the aluminum action be up to snuff for 32 long?

22LR has a breach bolt thrust of 1,085, 32 S&W is at 1,327, 32 H&R is 1,855. While the Martini stile action is considered strong enough I don't know about the aluminum holding up. The 410 shotgun has a bolt thrust of 2,332, 38 special is 1,937, 357 mag is 3,988. Sometimes doing the numbers opens your eyes a bit, the 32 ACP has more bolt thrust than the 32 S&W long. And the little 25 auto that everyone thinks has no power has a bolt thrust of 1,327, same as the 32 S&W.

[rbertalotto]

This is a great thread! I'd love to take one of those newer Cz SXS shotguns in 410 and build a DR in 327 Federal.................Sweet!

In answer to how dopes one legally take rifles and shotguns out of the country for hunting. Getting them out of the country is relatively easy to Africa and Canada.....getting them back in needs paperwork to prove they were here to begin with.

Canada requires you to register your guns to be used there. It is a one time registration and as long as the same gun is being used on a subsequent hunt, registration isn't needed again. But you do need to keep the paperwork....

If you go by the book, it really isn't too difficult.

[klcarroll]

...........I got a letter saying I had to appear in court for violating the home land security act........ .


I have come to the conclusion that ANYONE who is the sort of American that understands Jefferson and Adams is probably in violation of The Homeland Security Act!!! (....A piece of legislation that HAD to have been written in East Germany!)

"Times, ...they are a'changing!" .......There are more and more moments when I am perversely pleased to be approaching "The Big Dirt Nap"! ( ....I simply don't belong in this century.)

Kent

[bartelfitzneel]

225556

[Gewehr-Guy]

Bart, welcome to the forum, after watching you shoot that little carbine and reading in this old thread, I'm going to have to get busy this winter and finally make one of these. Mine will be made with a .308 groove dia, using a 2-groove barrel from a 1903-a3 drill rifle. Jim

[trapper9260]

I had my gunsmith turn a Handi rifle to a 327mag .

[3leggedturtle]

225556

Looks good to me, how does it shoot. Todd

[bartelfitzneel]

It shoots better than I do. Which doesn't take much. I am going to do some changes to the sights to help my eyes.