CZ-52 7.62x25...Too Hot for cast ?

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Has anyone looked into the 7.62x25 round for using cast.
is this too hot a round to shoot cast ?

I don't see it mentioned here recently,
with Mil surp ammo so cheap, it's hard
to justify reloading for it...But I just stumbled
into 100 rds of starline brass and am considering it
and I thought, maybe I should cast for it too ?

Any thoughts ?
Jon

[zxcvbob]

I shoot cast bullets in a .30 Carbine pistol, and that's a lot hotter round than the .30 Tokarev or .30 Mauser. (100 grain cast bullets at 1700 fps)

Edit: BTW, my point was just that the Tokarev is not too hot for cast bullets. I have a TT-33 and like shooting it, but haven't started reloading it yet cuz milsurp is still so cheap.

[frkelly74]

Hey Jon, I did try some cast 93 gr in the 7.62X25 but had trouble getting the bullets to seat without crushing the case necks into the case. I think my technique was faulty. It was back when I hadn't loaded many rounds. I would try it again if I hadn't sold the pistol.

[mold maker]

When the 2400+ .04 ea rounds I bought with the firearm are gone, I'll be loading for it. Let us know how yours turn out.

[jonk]

I don't see an issue. You may need a gas check, but that would be about the worst of it.

You don't have to load it to the original (rather warm) specs either. I load just enough bullseye to cycle mine with a plain base .311 bullet at 85 grains. Shoots just peachy.

[turbo1889]

I load and shoot cast for the 7.62x25 all the time.

Good mold choices include:

Magma # 30-110-RN-FB ~~ (Both Commercial Cast or Home Cast)
Magma # 30-115-RN-BB ~~ (Both Commercial Cast or Home Cast, FB Above is Better)
Lee # TL314-90-SWC ~~ (Size Down to 0.311"-0.312")
Lee # 311-100-2R
Lee # 309-120-R ~~ (Gas Check - Slightly Long Requires Deep Seating)
Lyman # 311359 ~~ (Gas Check - Slightly Long Requires Deep Seating)

If you load it using a "soft launch" loading technique (a full case compressed load of powder that does not produce full pressure levels due to the powders burn rate and/or bulkiness) then it works just fine with the plain base boolits without gas checks, and yes it will cycle the action on a CZ-52. If you are going to load it to full pressure levels then, yes, a gas checked design is the best choice but it isn’t necessary or advisable to load that way for this cartridge since it only makes it harder to find your brass to reload it since full power loads tend to fling the brass into the next county. I much prefer loads built with the “soft launch” loading technique that jut dribble the brass out the side of the gun with noticeably slower slide speed and it falls at your feet ready to pick up to load again.

[GORLO]

JonB, I worked up a load using the Lee 93gr RN. Started with 6.0 thru to 6.5gr Unique with a Wolf primer and S&B brass. I sized to .312 and seated deep, OAL 1.255" or it wouldn't chamber. Chrony results for the 6.5gr load averaged 1384fps which compared about the same as Prvi surplus. All loads from 6.0 to 6.5gr fed and functioned well and showed no signs of excessive pressure. YMMV. One of the tricks to loading this caliber is to "presize" your brass with a .38Super carbide size die prior to sizing to 7.62x25. This way you don't have to lube the brass. I also didn't "need" to reload these with all the mil-surp I have socked away. But, you never know, and I thought it would be nice to have a ready made load and a bunch of cast boolits waiting for that day.

[bcoverss]

Thanks so much! I was looking for this info. The mil surplus won't be around forever. Have you all noticed better accuracy with your reloads?

[Bullshop]

If you plan on reloading your brass you will want to stand next to a wall when you shoot.
With full power loads the CZ 52 will fling brass 30 yards and scatter them all over creation. If you stand near a building on your right they will hit the wall and stay mostly in one place.
We found that with light loads on the order of 32 longs it will not cycle and can be run as a hand operated single shot. Much easier on brass and no loss of brass.
My son once spent an evening making a bunch of brass from 223's and with full power loads lost about 30% on the first firing from being flung so far they ended up in Canada.
That is about the rate of loss we have come to expect with full power loads unless you shoot in an empty white room.
BTW if your shooting with a friend and he is standing somewhere to your right and behind and he get an empty down his shirt collar it will test his true friendship.
If he is a true friend and is 30 yards back ask him to move back another 20 because he is still in the danger zone.

[glicerin]

I shoot 85 grn cast in my cz52 , light load with unique, cycles well and ejection is not nearly as violent. However, with short neck, and lee flaring tool not centering well, bullets would start crooked. With a Lyman M style die seating problem gone. I wanted to use .312-.313 bullets in my worn rifling, but chamber neck is too tight. My firing pin strike is weak for no visible reason, so federal primers are required.

[troy_mclure]

ill be casting for the 5.7fn soon, 37gr at 2k fps.

[KCSO]

I used the Lee 100 2R in mine all the time and it worked great. I was using Unique but I don't remember the load off hand.

[7of7]

ill be casting for the 5.7fn soon, 36gr at 2k fps.

Why not just do a 30 grain?
(I haven't looked to see if there is a mold for that...)

[troy_mclure]

the optimum bullet weight is 40gr in the rifle cartridge. noe has a 37gr hornet mould that should work great.

[bcoverss]

I'm no expert but isn't the boolit diameter 0.31 on all the mil surplus 7.62 Tokarev ammo. Won't 0.255 be to small?

[9.3X62AL]

I'm no expert but isn't the boolit diameter 0.31 on all the mil surplus 7.62 Tokarev ammo. Won't 0.255 be to small?

Not if you use a sabot. :)

The Lee 311-100-2R has shot well from my CZ-52 to 1100 FPS. I'm a little intrigued by the poster's text concerning use of a full-capacity slow-for-application powder to run these cartridges. One of the bugbears of the caliber is the tiny necks that sometimes fail to hold bullets in place during feedramp contact. Any further details would be greatly appreciated.

[turbo1889]

. . . . I'm a little intrigued by the poster's text concerning use of a full-capacity slow-for-application powder to run these cartridges. One of the bugbears of the caliber is the tiny necks that sometimes fail to hold bullets in place during feedramp contact. Any further details would be greatly appreciated.

You PMed me as well concerning this. I am going to answer your question here publically so that others may benefit as well.

The magic number for cast boolits in the 7.62x25 cartridge is "4227" as in H-4227 and IMR-4227. In my experience either of those powders may be used in a 101-105% fill slightly compressed load in the cartridge in question with cast boolit weights varying from 90 to 140 grains. I personally have a preference for the IMR product but have tested and used both. The exact charge weight varies of course since the heavier boolits require deeper seating which reduces powder space inside the cartridge. Provided one sticks to cartridge over all lengths that match military ball loads and fit the standard CZ-52 magazine this results in nearly a perfect balance so that as boolit weight increases the charge is reduced to compensate. Load pressures using this method run between 20-K and 30-K if the "quick load" software program, classic metallic cartridge pressure indicators, and the resulting loads preference in alloy hardness are to be trusted.

One can get loads with even less spunk by using a compressed load of 4.0 grains of IMR trail boss and a heavy crimp under a 110-120 grain bullet; a non compressed full case load is 3.8 grains but those are just a little too light and I was getting a failure to eject every five rounds or so and the bolt would just re-chamber the spent brass instead of slide back far enough to flip it out the side and strip a fresh round of the magazine and lock it into battery. Those are the "dribbler loads" but the 4227 loads give better performance and although the brass isn't found at your feet it is only just a little behind and to the right.

You use that load information at your own peril and risk of course but it has been working great for me.

[Three44s]

I could "cry a river" telling about converting .223 cases into 7.62X25 ........

....... but I won't put You all through it ...... it would not be "Christian"!!


But I will mention that Wolfe makes an extra power spring for the CZ 52 that reduces brass launch ........

...... it does not eliminate it ...... it just reduces it!

And then you can load light enough with some powders to the point where the cases practically stack up at your feet!

A very intriguing round that I have not had enough quality time to spend on!!!


Three 44s

[turbo1889]

As to the brass flinging, I have heard rumors that there have been a couple incidents of civilian self defense shootings in the U.S. involving the CZ-52 and not even the law enforcement scene investigators were able to find all the brass casings!!! :holysheep

I've got a 5-gal bucket set-up at just the right angle and position in the wall to my upper right in my back-yard shooting area with a slit towel over the open end secured with a bungee so that if I shoot from the bench with my hand resting on one sand bag and the snout of my CZ-52 resting on two stacked sand bags about a foot from the right side edge of the bench the empties go right into the bucket and bounce and rattle around for a while with the slit towel acting as a one way door and keeping most of them inside the bucket. Still find a few scattered around at my feet that escape the bucket though. When not shooting at my own place I like to roll down the drivers window on my rig and use the driver side mirror as a shooting rest then all the brass goes inside the truck and rattles and bounces around in there; eventually I find it all although stragglers do tend to turn up a little at a time over the course of several months.

Edit: I am speaking in reference to full power loads of course. Loading light with 4227 and the Lee 90gr. TL-SWC bullets the brass lands just a little behind me and too the right just like where one would look with any regular semi-auto brass spitter.

[9.3X62AL]

Many thanks, Turbo!

[Freightman]

I used some 55g .224 Jword bullets with a sabot in my CZ52 when I had it talk about a screamer, if I remember I got like 2400-2500fps out of it, but I am getting old so don't take that as gospel. It was fun though.

[leftiye]

Has anyone tried shortening the ejector finger on a CZ52? This should slow down the ejection speed imparted. Mine throws the cases so far that unless someone else is watching/catching it's a too bad! Stick on sandpaper (about 120 grit) cut to fit on the sides of the slide make easy operating/charging with the heavy springz. Die it black with leather die.

[Tokarev]

Just using the opportunity to find TT-33 owners in one place.

Have a question: what Hogue grips would be a good fit for TT?

[baker1425]

Great info. Is there a Boolit design that I could share between 32 and 7.62 with adjusting the sizing of the Boolits?

[HARRYMPOPE]

In my PPS 43C 4.0g ofBullseye is unbeatable.These are typical good 5 and 10 shot groups at 25yards with a 1x pistol scope.With irons the groups are about 1/2"-3/4" bigger

this is with the 115g 311316 GC but the 3118 plainbase shoots as well.Velocity is 1270 fps and Sd's 12-18

George

click pic to enlarge and see load data

upper left is 5 shots other two 10 shot groups