Savage No. 4 sight values?

[dualsport]

I have a Savage No. 4 MKI*, 1942, with the flip up ladder sight. The peep screws up and down by a big wheel. Does anybody have an idea how many MOA 1 click is? I'm using some Sierra MK 174s for a sil match and am trying to figure out my come ups. It's about dead on at 50 yds. now when it's bottomed out at 200 setting. My velocity is est. 2200 fps. thanks I'll be shooting out to 500 meters. I figure this load will shoot somewhat flatter than military ball ammo. (Yes, I'd rather use cbs, just going for score this time out) Oh, the rear sight has a P in a circle on it, if that helps and goes up to '13'.

[Frank46]

Standard velocity for the MK7 cartridge is approx 2440 fps. So your cb load with 2200fps will need more elevation. I think the clicks on the MK1 sight are in 25 yard increments. Hope this helps. Frank

[damron g]

Sights are worth about $50.

any help Tim??

grin

[dualsport]

Thanks George, you're a lot of help. $50 seems low to me though. Frank's probably right, but maybe the high bc of the MK vs. the Mark7 bullet things will even up. Instead of trying to figure it all out I'll go with the sighter routine. Also, the Hornady website has a ballistic calculator you can plug in your numbers and it gives trajectory etc. and goes to 500 or 1,000 yds.

[higgins]

According to one of my kept group targets, my No4Mk2 with a ladder sight changes elevation about 1 moa per click at 100 yds with South African ball ammo which was a 174 gr. flatbase bullet at 2506 (chronographed) from that rifle. That's based on sight changes on the target of 7 clicks elevation and 1 click elevation. As you might expect, there were several variations of ladder-type rear sight leaf and slide assemblies used before and during WWII. The circle P may be a poorly struck circle F, which would be Fazakerley arsenal in England. If it were the original Savage sight it should be marked either S or "squared S". If the gun went through FTR (Factory Thorough Repair - what the Brits called rebuild) after the war, that's probably where it picked up the sight it now has. Enfield parts markings and what parts are original to rifles is a study unto itself; one learns quickly to hedge with words like should and probably. I'll check a few websites and if I come across the circle P mark (which seems familiar), I'll edit this post.

[dualsport]

I double checked the circle P and it is a P. There's also a P with no circle on the top of the sight.

[NickSS]

Check the number of clicks between the 200 and 300 yard settings. If it is a one moa per click it should be three clicks or 4 on the outside. I have a similar rifle and have shot it at up to 200 yards (limit at my club) and found that I need to go up about five clicks with my ammo from 100 to 200 yards but my ammo is going at only 1800 fps or so.

[smlekid]

I double checked the circle P and it is a P. There's also a P with no circle on the top of the sight.

P is for Pooles in England
the rear sight is around 1" per click at 100y

[dualsport]

This is great, thanks for all the help guys. Near as I can tell the gun is all original except the buttstock and rear sight. Why just those is a mystery, but the parts, bolt, magazine, forestock are matching. It does have an oddity, a woodscrew thru the forestock left to right right at the knox form. There's no cracks to repair, so don't know what that is for. I'm making a tool today to adjust the front sight and then I'm set for the milsil match. Now I have to research Pooles sights. I'll post my results here next week, possible 40.

[smlekid]

that screw is refered to as an Ishy screw (fitted at Ishapore arsenal in India) so your rifle saw service on the sub continant this also explains the sight and stock
the screw was put there a to reinforce the timber as for Pooles there isn't much to research it is juat a standard No4 Mk1 "Singer" rear sight made by an English contrarcter
there seems to have been a lot of pooles sights turn up as parts lately on Ebay does yours go to 1300y?
have you trried 40gns of Varget with your Sierra's? that would just about be the standard load here in Australia for any 303 (I also like 38grs of H4895 some rifles go better with it)
some here have also used 45grs of H4350 with very good results

[dualsport]

Snuck off to the range this afternoon with my 1942 Savage No. 4. Cutting right to the chase, 3" 5 shot group with the Sierra MKs and Data 68(AA2700) powder. The first 3 went into 1 3/8". With the ladder sight down all the way they hit about 3 1/2" high at 100, so I think my 200 yd. zero should be pretty close. I made a front sight retaining screw tool from an old brake tool using a hacksaw, grinder, and Dremel. Piece of cake. This gun and load will probably hold 2" at 100 no problem with a better shooter and better eyes. I'm kinda guessing on the sight picture. This gun has a Huge chamber, the fired empties will not chamber in any of my other .303s, including another Savage that's been bubba'd. My 1915 Lithgow has a tight chamber. So now I mark my brass, for which gun, and for cast only brass. I need a lot more brass. It amazes me that this US made Lend Lease gun made it to the Ishapore arsenal, if only it could talk. The forend has a nice factory stamp of the original serial number on it, so I think it's original Savage wood. Looks like black walnut to me. The Pooles sight works great, I thought maybe I had something rare but they're common. I read today Savage bought a lot of parts from subcontractors, including sights. Thanks for indulging me with all this j@$#%^&* bullet stuff. I'm not going over to the dark side, just needed a little change. I also shot my M95 Steyr with some handloads, man that little sucker is fun! Oh, if I had some Varget or 4895 I'd use it, but money is scarce and I have a few jugs of the AA Data Powder from when it was cheap. The Pooles sight does go to 1300, I'd love to try that out on a junk car or something big like that out at 1300 meters. Saturday I'll be shooting out to 500m with my shooting partner, Wineman, from this forum. We're a team, but we compete too. He's bringing his Finn 7.62x54. We'll see.

[Bloodman14]

FWIW, I use Winchester cases in one Enfield, and Remington/S&B/Federal in the other; that's how I keep my brass straight as to which goes where. Saves marking individual cases.

[WineMan]

I am sure I am in for a whipping on Saturday. His Argie Mauser is deadly and now with some practice this Enfield also looks dangerous. The weather will be cool and cloudy but there is no wind in the forecast. Our first match together was with this rifle and we had a blast. If only we could see better we might really knock them down. We still need to do a cast match together. Game on!

Wineman

[dualsport]

The results are in, me and Wineman tied, 21 out of 40. Not our best, but not bad. The sight settings on the No. 4 were almost on for my load with the Sierra MK. Had to add a click or two and it was on. For instance, at the 500m line I was set on about 535 on the sight. Adjusting the front sight is a snap once you have a tool for that male head screw. It was a lot of fun shooting the old girl and knocking down a few rams. Now I need to get my spine up and do it with cast boolits. The chamber is huge, the grooves are .318. But I'm confident I will get that slick 2 groove barrel shooting cbs. Thanks for all the help and info fellas.