What role does ALOX do in a bullet lube?

[catboat]

Why is ALOX (any numbers/formulations) used in bullet lubes? As I understand it, ALOX is not lube in itself, but is an anti-corrosion material in "real life" (not in the bullet lube world).

Is it for hardening? Stickiness? Lubrication? Other? Please educate me.

Thanks in advance.

[Dale53]

ALOX is the lubricant (it is a petroleum product). It is used for anti-corrosion for it's ability to stick to the metal it is applied to. Bullet lube is a minor side use of the product (as far as the pig is concerned, bacon is a "side" product {may the Saints preserve me, but that is a bad pun:groner:} but for me I put it ahead of steak:drinks:.

At any rate, E.H. Harrison, a member of the NRA Technical Staff in the sixties and seventies, discovered it's value as a bullet lubricant while doing a major study of the problem. The original Alox product was 2138F while the present Alox product being used for bullet lube is Alox 350 (2138F is no longer produced after ownership of Alox changed). Apparently, the "new" Alox is just as efficient a bullet lubricant as the "old".

Dale53

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Yeah,
as a newbie reading many posts here, I often wondered the same thing.
Jon

[littlejack]

Adding to Dales notes, Harrison did a lot of R&D, and it was noted that the 50/50 Alox/Beeswax was as good a (smokeless) bullet lube or better than anything else tried.
Jack

[wiljen]

Alox 606 and 350 are both petroleum based products, but they are not of the type most suspect. Just as paraffin is a petroleum distillate, so are the Alox products we use. They are not oils or greases rather they are oxidates of the heavy hydrocarbon wax byproducts of oil refining. They lubricate because they contain a large fraction of calcium soap in a wax carrier.

Calcium-complex grease has unusually high heat resistance making it useful in CB applications. The dropping point of complex Calcium soaps can be 500ºF or higher. This helps keep it from burning off and is also why it generally doesn't completely combust as do other forms of lube if you re-melt boolits coated with Alox.


As for the difference in Old and New, Alox 2138f was the same formulation as Alox 350 with the exception of 7% micro-crystalline wax that was present in 2138f and omitted in 350. If you wish to make what was the original formula for NRA lube, it can be made by using the following ratio:

50% beeswax
46.5% Alox 350
3.5% Micro Wax

Today's version made without the micro wax is slightly more tacky and has a slightly lower melting point due to the omission, but otherwise works the same way.

[Dale53]

wiljen;
Something about this post tells me that you know EXACTLY what you are talking about:bigsmyl2:. That is useful information.

With your permission, I will save this to my hard drive. I no longer make bullet lube (relying on Lars Carnauba Red these days for my bullet lube and have ZERO desire to change) but, who knows, things could happen.

Thank you for this information.

Dale53

[357reloading]

thank for the infomation. now i have explanation why I am so happy with lee tumble lube bulets with Alox or white lable xlox

[noylj]

For a presentation of greases, see:
http://www.mobil.ie/Ireland-English/LCW/files/grease.pdf

Has any one looked into other complex calcium soap greases (or polyurea or clay/bentonite) greases? For a summary of Mobil greases, see:
http://www.mobil.com/IND/English/files/sc_grease.pdf

[wiljen]

Don't use polyurea. It tends to bind to Steels and you'll slowly narrow your bore as damn near nothing removes it again.

PTFE tends to give off nasty stuff and make a mess when burned so I'd avoid it too.

Bentonite would probably work, but it is designed for wet environments and is completely water insoluble, and not soluble in mild acid or alkali so it might pose a problem in clean up.

Bentonite and Polyurea also tend to be about 35-50% more expensive than calcium sulfonates, calcium soaps, or lithium soaps so from an economic standpoint, don't make good sense if the cheaper ones work (and they do).

As for other calcium soaps, yes some of us have as well as lithium grease as a component of lubes.

[Molly]

Alox 606 and 350 are both petroleum based products, but they are not of the type most suspect. Just as paraffin is a petroleum distillate, so are the Alox products we use. They are not oils or greases rather they are oxidates of the heavy hydrocarbon wax byproducts of oil refining. They lubricate because they contain a large fraction of calcium soap in a wax carrier.

Calcium-complex grease has unusually high heat resistance making it useful in CB applications. The dropping point of complex Calcium soaps can be 500ºF or higher. This helps keep it from burning off and is also why it generally doesn't completely combust as do other forms of lube if you re-melt boolits coated with Alox.

As for the difference in Old and New, Alox 2138f was the same formulation as Alox 350 with the exception of 7% micro-crystalline wax that was present in 2138f and omitted in 350. If you wish to make what was the original formula for NRA lube, it can be made by using the following ratio:

50% beeswax
46.5% Alox 350
3.5% Micro Wax

Today's version made without the micro wax is slightly more tacky and has a slightly lower melting point due to the omission, but otherwise works the same way.

Good post Wiljen.

Actually, I believe your proportions are very slightly off, though it may have been changed in later production. I don't think it makes a hill of beans difference, but just to keep the record straight: As originally formulated by the Alox lab folks, Alox 2138F was Alox 350 (94%) and Petrolite C-700 microcrystalline wax (6%). As formulated into the NRA (Col Harrison's) 50/50 lube, this results in a composition of 50% yellow beeswax, 47% Alox 350 and 3% Petrolite C-700. I got that straight from the Alox lab folks back when I was involved in purchasing major amounts of Alox products from them commercially.

I can add as a point of interst that at least MOST of the Alox line was ORIGINALLY developed as hand lotion ingredients, according to the guys in the Alox lab, back when I was in regular contact with them. So for the smoothest, softest hands, just persuade your wife to lube your bullets for you by hand! (VBG)

Also, if you re-read Col harrison's original report, I think you'll find that while his initial success came with Alox 350, he was concerned that the low melting point of the Alox 350 / beeswax 50/50 mixture might melt while in a hot car (summer sun, etc.), and that the microcrystalline wax was added for the sole purpose of raising the melting point of the Alox 350. This addittion was then labeled Alox 2138F to distinguish it.

I'm not sure, but I believe the nomenclature was derived from the laboratory notebook record of a series of wax addittions to Alox 350 made for Harrison's testings. In the usual practice, it might have been read as something like 'Lab notebook No. 21, page 38, formula A, formula B, formula C, etc. Harrison simply chose formula F, which thus became 2138F. And no, I have no idea what the composition of the other formulas might have been.

[Alan in Vermont]

I think one of the issues with 350 in the original testing was that the lube was too soft to handle without a mess. The addition of microcrystalline wax, which was a component of 2831F cured that problem without have to add a third ingredient when making the lube up.

I just made up a batch of the original formula. I had part of a bucket of 2138F that was rusting on the bottom (from the outside) and enough beeswax to make up a mess (140) of hollow sticks and I've still got almost ten pounds of Alox left. I'm debating either making more lube or mixing some of it with mineral spirits to make a sprayable rustproofing.

[Molly]

I think one of the issues with 350 in the original testing was that the lube was too soft to handle without a mess. The addition of microcrystalline wax, which was a component of 2831F cured that problem without have to add a third ingredient when making the lube up.

I just made up a batch of the original formula. I had part of a bucket of 2138F that was rusting on the bottom (from the outside) and enough beeswax to make up a mess (140) of hollow sticks and I've still got almost ten pounds of Alox left. I'm debating either making more lube or mixing some of it with mineral spirits to make a sprayable rustproofing.

You might get a lot more bang for your buck if you just offered it for sale by the pound or by the pint. If'n 'twere me, I'd post it in the 'selling and swapping' forum and see how much interest there is.

[Pa.guy]

I have used the NRA formula for years with 100% success in my lead bullet loads. With all costs going up these days i have been considering savings even on shipping and sales tax, therefore i am looking into using readily available toilet base sealing wax rings for the major component in my lube formula. They can be had at Lowes for $1.48 ( Solder Seal brand ). A wax ring looks to be about the size of three sticks. Anyone ever use this product, it is not beeswax!
PaGuy

[Dale53]

Pa.guy;
At one time, toilet bowl wax rings WERE beeswax. That has not been true for many years.

Beeswax has certain properties that lend itself to bullet lubricant. Parafine, as an example, does NOT work nearly as well in the NRA formula.

Beeswax is not as easy to find as it once was. However, I have looked to local beekeepers for my supplies. You have to catch them the right time of the year as most tend to sell all of the "extra" beeswax to buyers at the end of the season. I contacted a few beekeepers, until I found one that I liked and just waited for his seasonable supply to become available (just contract for so many pounds in advance). Check with your local agriculture agent and he can direct you to local beekeepers.

I have made several gallons of NRA 50/50 in the past and had excellent results. However, these days, I just order a large supply from Lars' White Label lubes (my preference is Carnauba Red) to minimize shipping costs. There is no sales tax. At a $1.65 per stick, I'm not going to fool with making my own any more...

FWIW
Dale53

[BulletFactory]

The primary function of ALOX in a bullet lube, is to make it stink.

[Dale53]

:If you want to read about the "real story" as to making bullet lube lead to the NRA 50/50 mix, read E.H. Harrison's account in the NRA Reloading Handbook. Unfortunately, it is out of print but you may be able to find an old copy.

The real problem in making your own bullet lube is accuracy. Stopping leading is simple - accuracy is not. I used the NRA Formula for years (I both used commercial products and made my own). In those days, getting a gallon sample size of Alox 2138f direct from the manufacturer was easy (it was normally sold in fifty gallon drums). Now, you buy Alox 350 from Lars White Label Lubes, add microcrystaline wax in the proportions that "Molly" has outlined, mix the product of this with pure natural beeswax 50/50 and you have NRA 50/50 lube. It offers excellent accuracy and good stability over the long term.

However, as I stated, with Lars selling excellent lubes for $1.65 a stick, I just order a flat rate box full (to minimize shipping costs per unit) and am "good to go". My preference of his lubes is Carnauba Red (it requires heat to apply but my lube/sizers are adjustably heated).

I prefer Carnauba Red as it has a higher melting point than NRA 50/50 and won't melt in hot weather when left in a car in the sun for hours. NRA 50/50 is not bad in this regard but years ago I had a bad experience when attending a shooting school in 106 degree weather for a week. I left my loaded ammo in a G.I. Ammo can in the direct sun (not more than twenty minutes or so) and had misfires from melted lube. I did get lots of experience clearing my gun, however:mrgreen:

FWIW
Dale53

[BulletFactory]

Im about to try a 50/50 BAC/ RED mix that gear suggested, I just hope its accurate. Finding a lube that works, but is innaccurate, at this point, would make me just

:bigsmyl2:

crazy.

[runfiverun]

i use two sticks of 50-50 to one carnuba red,and add a teaspoon of lanolin as it cools.
this has been one of the best all around lubes i have ever used.

[303british.com]

Lube is the main sticking point for me about making bullets. (No pun intended! :p ) I think Alox was used because it is good for that purpose and is much easier and cheaper than machine or pan lubing.

I am too lazy to go through a lot of work to lube cast bullets, but realize that it must be done. I found it more of a PITA than any other part of the operation. That's why I tumble lube bullets. A few minutes to toss them back and forth, lay them out and it's done.

I can't be bothered with Lubrizers or pan lubing. That's what made Alox alluring. No doubt, that had a lot to do with Harrison's initial experiments. I cut it 50-50 and squirt a little on. I think I'm going to try some sort of spray bottle if I can locate one that will handle the slightly thicker mix. Maybe remove and rinse out the plastic lube and trigger when not in use. Keep the bottle capped and on the shelf.

Heat and spray are my thoughts on it. Has anyone cut Alox with mineral spirits and used a spray bottle?