Puma 454/45lc?????

[Dogg]

Question to those of you who have the .454 puma. What is the difference, besides the obvious, between the 454 guns and the 45lc guns? Is the action thicker? Parts more robust or what?

Can a regular rossi 45lc be converted to a 454? Does anyone have an answer to this? I know that some people load their 45lc rounds to duplicate the 454, not sure if this is wise or can the guns hold up to a steady diet of 454 ballistics.

It is really hard to find one of the 454 pumas so I was wondering if I could convert one of my 45lc Hartford models to take the 454 round.
Dogg

[Pepe Ray]

Equivalent .454 C. loads in a .45Colt carb. will pull the magazine from the receiver in due course. STOUT recoil. They've attempted to correct this in using a different method of attaching the mag. to the receiver.
Pepe Ray

[454PB]

I have a Puma .454, but I can't answer your question. My opinion is that it would be unsafe to covert a .45 Colt to .454, and trying to load .45 Colt to duplicate .454 Casull ballistics and pressures is an exercise in disaster.

That said, in a strong rifle, the 45 Colt handloaded within reason should handle any beast on this continent.

[roverboy]

I don't know how strong the Puma is, but you could load your .45 to .44 Mag. power and it would be at lower pressure. I think Your rifle would handle that. Also there's .45 Colt ammo on the market thats loaded like that. The .45 makes a bigger hole than the .44 too.

[Old Goat Keeper]

Not only does the Puma in 454 Casull have a different magazine tube attachment system but more importaant in this case is that the action itself receives additional heat treatment to take the extreme pressure that the 454 works at. If you rechamber a 45LC version to 454 you are doing a very dangerous thing. I personally don't want a piece of the action coming thru my head or losing a hand! Go to a good loading manual and check out the working pressure limits of both the 454 and the 45 LC. And yes I DO own a 454 Rossi/Puma.

Tom

[saz]

Not only does the Puma in 454 Casull have a different magazine tube attachment system but more importaant in this case is that the action itself receives additional heat treatment to take the extreme pressure that the 454 works at. If you rechamber a 45LC version to 454 you are doing a very dangerous thing. I personally don't want a piece of the action coming thru my head or losing a hand! Go to a good loading manual and check out the working pressure limits of both the 454 and the 45 LC. And yes I DO own a 454 Rossi/Puma.

Tom

Well I agree with everything Old Goat Keeper has said, except I dont know how much truth there is to the heat treating thing though. All I know is this- I have a puma 454 and have fed it a very healthy diet of hot casull loads (a couple thousand loaded with Lil Gun) and I have not seen any adverse affects. Take it as you will.....

[Old Goat Keeper]

Someone, maybe Paco Kelly, checked it out with Rossi/Puma and th ecompany said the action was especially heat treated to take the almost 60,000 psi working load of the 454. A 45 LC doesn' come way near that and the actions are made only as strong as required for legal pruposes/SAMI specs and not for being rechambered or hot handloads. Another case in point is the Marlin 1894 in 32 H&R magnum being rechambered to 327 federal magmun. The working pressure is over the working limit of the Marlin '94 action. Without some changes you will never see a Marlin 94 in 327 Federal magnum!

Tom

[Snyd]

Here is an excerpt from a 2003 Guns Magazine article written by Holt Bodinson.

"When the Puma .454 arrived, the first thing I did was to call Glen Ruh at Legacy Sports International to ask him how Rossi had been able to adapt the 1892 design to the hot Casull cartridge. Ruh explained that the metallurgy and heat treatment had been modified to handle the high pressure and that the carbine had been thoroughly torture tested by H.P. White Laboratories using standard factory ammunition."

[454PB]

Yeah.....I've done a little "torture testing" of mine, and it eats everything I've fed it!

[looseprojectile]

Years ago Numrich arms Co. sold .44 magnum barrels to fit the Winchester 92 carbines. I thought that was a bad idea.
I would rather trust my face to a .44 magnum in a Rossi than hope that a Winchester was strong enough. I dont want to shoot full power ammo in my .44 magnum cause of the recoil with the crescent butt, and I am afraid that a full power .454 Casull would create an instant flinch. Had a chance to buy a Rossi .454 and passed. A mild load in a 45 70 will do what a hot load in a .454 Casull will.
That Paco Kelly guy has done some of the same stuff I did years ago with 92s.
These days I will stick with ammo loaded to "reasonable" pressures.
It is amazing that I have gotten away with some of the hot rodding I have done and that is a tribute to the design and material of the guns and I think that Divine intervention might be what saved me in extreme cases. You never know what the yeild strength of a gun is till it -- well --- yeilds. Call it fate, luck or ignorance too.

Life is good

[pricedo]

Not only does the Puma in 454 Casull have a different magazine tube attachment system but more importaant in this case is that the action itself receives additional heat treatment to take the extreme pressure that the 454 works at. If you rechamber a 45LC version to 454 you are doing a very dangerous thing. I personally don't want a piece of the action coming thru my head or losing a hand! Go to a good loading manual and check out the working pressure limits of both the 454 and the 45 LC. And yes I DO own a 454 Rossi/Puma.

Tom

I own pre-safety Amadeo Rossi manufactured Puma 92s in .357 Mag, .44 Mag, & .454 Casull.

The newer & improved .454 Casull models definitely have a different and stronger tube magazine configuration ......the tube magazine is threaded into the receiver & the mag cap on the muzzle end is also threaded into the magazine tube wall. The improvements happened because the tube mags in older .454C models became detached as a result of the .454Cs heavy recoil.

I've heard anecdotal stories about a so called "special heat treatment process" of the .454C model receivers to strengthen them over & above those of the .45LC models but in the absence of empirical evidence I don't believe it for a minute. Except for the chamber dimensions I suspect that the receivers & actions are virtually identical for the .454C & .45LC model Puma 92s.

[Snyd]

Save the 454 loads for the 454 gun.

Here is an excerpt from a 2003 Guns Magazine article written by Holt Bodinson.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_5_49/ai_99145185/

"When the Puma .454 arrived, the first thing I did was to call Glen Ruh at Legacy Sports International to ask him how Rossi had been able to adapt the 1892 design to the hot Casull cartridge. Ruh explained that the metallurgy and heat treatment had been modified to handle the high pressure and that the carbine had been thoroughly torture tested by H.P. White Laboratories using standard factory ammunition."

[pricedo]

Doesn't appear that it's advisable to approach .454C power levels in a .45LC model Puma.

Seeing that the guns are about the same price why not work the other way & shoot .45LC in the .454C model Puma to save yourself the pain of the bone crushing recoil of full power .454C ammo except in the rare situations where you need the extra power of the .454C ammo.

You get a recoil pad, a stronger magazine configuration & the added features of a removable magazine push rod & follower assembly & a magazine tube loading slot so you can load ammo directly into the magazine tube like in a Marlin 39A.

Anybody tried the Hornady .45LC LeveRevolution ammo in their Rossi Puma 92s in .454C?

I've got a few boxes on order.

The pointed ogive copper jacket should solve feeding difficulties as well as eliminate any leading problems that might cause constriction & soaring pressures when you switch back to FL .454C ammo.

Diligent cleaning with a good solvent & proper copper/nylon brushes after shooting .45LC ammo to thoroughly clean out powder residue should allow for shooting both .45LC & .454C ammo out of the same Puma .454C model safely.

[rbertalotto]

One option that I used in my Marlin 1884, 45LC (before I bought a Rossi 454) was to use 454 brass cut down to 45LC and loaded to near 44 Mag levels. These loads proved to be just under 454 performance with a 240gr bullet. But I wouldn't do this with a 300gr.

I finally found a NIB Rossi in 454 and use the same 300 grain loads I use in my Model 83 Freedom Arms revolver. Man, it does a real tune on deer!

http://images56.fotki.com/v127/photos/2/36012/9578412/DSC_2600-vi.jpg

But then I bought a Marlin 1895G and removed the 18" barrel and rebarreled it with a 24" octagon..........45-70! This thing can be down loaded to 45LC level and uploaded to beyond what a 454 can do with 500gr boolits!

http://images45.fotki.com/v153/photos/2/36012/9556651/DSC_2500-vi.jpg

[500cadillac]

What about using "Ruger only" load data for the 45LC in the Puma?

[Gunnut 45/454]

Dogg
The simple answer is no you can't - the real answer is no gunsmith wurth a dam will do it! I have the Rossi Puma 454 20" And it still as tight as the day I bought it with lots of heavy loads through it!
So they obviously they got the heat treating right! You got to ask youself would you think they'd waste there time doing the same heat treat on the 45 LC version? I seriously doubt it!:sad:

[Triggerhappy]

I got a question, if you have a .454C Rossi can you shoot .45LC's through it? Will it function?

Thanks

[Snyd]

I got a question, if you have a .454C Rossi can you shoot .45LC's through it? Will it function?

Thanks

Yup, no prob. Nose profile and OAL will determine how it feeds. I shoot everything from 255gr rnfp 45 Colt plinkers up to a 425gr 45-70 boolit sized down to .454, It's the RCBS 45-405fn mould. Brass trimmed to 1.370 and it cycles no prob. I also trim 454 brass to 1.330, half way between the length of 45 Colt and 454. I can then load a 355grn wfn that's almost a wadcutter the metplat is so big. The rounds run through the puma nice and smooth. I call it the 454 Synd :D. Here's a little write up I did on those loads.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=114117&highlight=454+snyd

[Triggerhappy]

Snyd,

Thank you. I had assumed that it would. I have a .357 Puma and have always wanted a .454. I'm keeping my eyes open for one.

TH

[pricedo]

Snyd,

Thank you. I had assumed that it would. I have a .357 Puma and have always wanted a .454. I'm keeping my eyes open for one.

TH

The pre-safety - post magazine redesign Amadeo Rossi made Puma 92s in .454 Casull are getting very scarce.

I have a pre-safety - post magazine redesign Amadeo Rossi Puma 92 in .454 Casull that has had over 1000 full powered loads through it & it is still as tight as a "V V" (Vestal Virgin).

The currently manufactured Braztec R92s have a ridiculous, unsightly firing pin block safety switch on top of the receiver.

If you buy a used Puma .454 Casull make sure it isn't one of the earlier models with the pinned instead of threaded tube magazine. The pinned magazine tube will shake loose in less than a box of full powered .454 Casull loads & nobody to date has come up with a retrofix that will correct this problem that doesn't cost more than a new rifle.

Later Pumas had a completely redesigned magazine assembly where the magazine outer tube is threaded into the receiver and the inner tube retracts from the gun to allow tube loading cartridges through a magazine loading slot like a Marlin Model 39A. The newly re-designed magazine assembly also has a magazine cap that is threaded into the outer magazine tube.

The ideal gun to buy is a pre-safety - post magazine redesign Amadeo Rossi made Puma 92 in .454 Casull. These are getting exceedingly scarce.

If the used Puma .454 Casull you're considering buying does not have the tube magazine that is THREADED into the receiver with a retractable inner tube, threaded cap and a cartridge loading slot it is one of the earlier models & DON'T BUY IT unless it's very cheap & you plan on shooting .45 LC power level cartridges only.

[pricedo]

One option that I used in my Marlin 1884, 45LC (before I bought a Rossi 454) was to use 454 brass cut down to 45LC and loaded to near 44 Mag levels. These loads proved to be just under 454 performance with a 240gr bullet. But I wouldn't do this with a 300gr.

I finally found a NIB Rossi in 454 and use the same 300 grain loads I use in my Model 83 Freedom Arms revolver. Man, it does a real tune on deer!

http://images56.fotki.com/v127/photos/2/36012/9578412/DSC_2600-vi.jpg

But then I bought a Marlin 1895G and removed the 18" barrel and rebarreled it with a 24" octagon..........45-70! This thing can be down loaded to 45LC level and uploaded to beyond what a 454 can do with 500gr boolits!

http://images45.fotki.com/v153/photos/2/36012/9556651/DSC_2500-vi.jpg

I own a Marlin .45-70 too.

My shoulder prefers the 6 pound Rossi .454C after a long day "dogging" deer in the bush.

There are better choices than either for a tree stand or blind gun but for a carrying gun the Rossi is the hands down choice for me because of the weight factor.

A suped up .45-70 load might produce a few more ft-lbs but you can't get deader than dead.

Wouldn't want to be dragging that 8+ pound Marlin Howitzer with the 24" octagonal barrel through the alders.