.30 Remington M8

[26Charlie]

Picked up Remington M8 in .30 Rem caliber today at the Bangor gun show. An older man was walking around with it, sold it to me for $275 - VG bore, normal finish & carry wear for its age. Some of these were on the tables for $450, which means probably $400 once the talking is done, so I think the price was pretty good. What makes it more appealing is that there are no extra holes in it for scope bases, etc. and there is a Redfield aperture sight on it. I've seen the prices they get on ebay for these - over a hundred bucks in some cases.

It is hard to explain the appeal of these chunky rifles - but once you get one you sort of want to extend the collection. I've now got M81's in .32 Rem, .35 Rem, .300 Savage, and now the .30 Rem M8. They all will shoot well with cast bullets and cycle the action with reasonably hefty loads.

I've got brass - ordered 500 from Graf & Sons back when I picked up a M81 .32 Remington, and can neck size and seat bullets with .30-30 dies until I get some .30 Rem dies ordered. So tomorrow I'm going shooting - will post results.

[Bent Ramrod]

26Charlie,

You got a pretty good price on your rifle. The Model 8 is a real classic. It has the same aesthetics as a Mauser pistol; either you love it or you shudder.

I've got a pistol-grip version in .25 Remington. Larger calibers (particularly the .35) have a kind of disconcerting recoil; not hard or brutal but sort of a double-tap that takes getting used to. I like the way mine kind of drops the empty shells at my feet instead of slinging them ten yards to be lost. Also it doesn't seem to ding them up the way modern autoloaders often do.

[straightshooter1]

The last few years, I have sorta gotten interested in the guns that were around in my youth. I picked up a 91 Argentine Mauser with the Montgomery Ward's hang tag still on it ($19.95 when I was a kid-never had the $), am trying to find a 94 Swedish Carbine ($35.00-same sad story), just got a Stevens 620 like
Grandad had, bought a nice older Stevens 311 and now you mention the 8/81.

When I was first started deer hunting, you saw a few of these, mostly in 300 Savage or 30 Remington. All had a receiver sight in place and all were real meat in the pot guns. Recently my friend bought a pristine 81 in 300 Savage for $400 and felt he'd gotten a great deal. I guess he did, but I still like one that has some of the character flaws that come from being used.

All the ones I ever saw could shoot, and, yes, the recoil was "different", though I never found it unpleasant. I don't recall ever shooting one in 35, but I think I have fired most of the other calibers.

Nice rifles and I think I might pick one up, if it has the right character.

Bob

[Buckshot]

................What was neat about the Model 8 was when you pulled the trigger every part on the rifle started moving :-)

.............Buckshot

[Lloyd Smale]

I allways thought they were neat guns myself. Had one but gave it to Rob Applegate to fill a hole in his collection

[KCSO]

A Couple of years ago I traded a Krag for a collection of M8's. I shot the 35 quite a bit with cast and really liked it and I had a modified 31141 made by Mountain Moulds for the 30 Rem. It has just a tad smaller meplate for feeding in the M8. Now I don't have the 8's any more.

[straightshooter1]

Been following this thread with interest, and, as noted in my first post, I like these guns as they remind me of my youth.

I was thinking about how these rifles shot, and realized I have never shot one from a bench to see what kind of accuracy they are capable of.

I never saw a "range" until I went in the Army in '65. Everyone I knew just laid their rifles across a hood or on top of a fence post and shot at some target of opportunity at some distance approximating deer-shooting distance. I don't remember even seeing a rifle rest till after I got out of the service and became a police officer. Even then, shooting on our Bullseye Team, I never recall anyone sighting in their revolvers from a rest.

All this is a long-winded way of asking what kind of accuracy will these rifles give from the bench?

I have mentioned before, in crowded TampaBay, our local range requires us to load and shoot one round at a time from the bench:( . I would like one of these, but would like to know they are capable of decent groups since that's all we get to shoot for here.

Bob

[26Charlie]

Straightshooter1,
Haven't shot the .30 Rem yet, but the .32, 35 and .300 Sav M81's with the open sights will shoot cast bullets in the three-inch group category for five shots from the magazine, and the occasional off shot can be attributed to sights & bench technique. This with reasonably stout loads which function the action. The details are in my notebooks out in the shop, but I can compare them when I get the results from this gun - maybe tomorrow.
The rifles are solid and somewhat heavy, and the long recoil type action doesn't start moving much if any until the bullet is well on the way. Also, the barrels are usually quite good since they have not been subject to corrosive ammo or indeed shot a lot, IMHO.

[straightshooter1]

Thanks, 26Charlie.

Bob

[KCSO]

I have a book called Lucian Carey on Guns that came from True Magazine in the 50's and it shows the M8 at $142.00 as compared to 86 bucks for a Remington 721. Those were top shelf guns when they were made. I have never had one that didn't work and never had one with a bad barrel. Somewhere I have a cutter for the lathe to make 30 rem from 30-30 brass.

[45 2.1]

I have an 8 with a weak magazine spring. Has anybody got a line on a replacement for that. Yep, I know what it looks like, a lot of machining and work there.

[26Charlie]

OK, got some shooting in on this rifle. First load was just to duplicate a factory jacketed load, so as to see what it was supposed to do. I took some Nosler 170 gr. FP solid base bullets and a max .30-30 load, 33.0 gr. of 4320, and put twenty of them into new .30 Rem brass. First group of five was 6 3/8'' and about 5" right of point of aim at 100 yards. Adjusted it left, and got a second 5-shot group of 5 1/8".

Now to the cast bullets:
Loaded the 175 gr. 311291 GC with 22.0 gr. Scot 4197. Group of 10 shots was 4 1/2", but three shots were drifted left by faulty bench technique I think - the best seven were in a circular group of 3 1/8". Beginning to get the hang of the rifle. The group was left of the jacketed POA, would have been on if I hadn't made the sight adjustment.

Loaded the Modern-Bond M-311-910 155 gr. GC with 24.0 gr. Scot 4197. This bullet is a Loverin design for Modern-Bond very much like the Lyman 150 gr. Loverin bullet. 1st shot was in the previous 311291 group, sort of like a memory shot, but the next nine were in a group at POA measuring 4 1/2".

The two cast bullet groups were better than the jacketed bullet groups. All the loads functioned the action, and one of the 155 gr. CB loads dropped a hot shell right in the crook of my elbow were the skin is thinnest, and gave me a blister. The gun was nice and warm after the 30 rounds.

I'm very pleased so far - the front sight is a big gold bead which covers about 10 inches at 100 yards, and so far I can hold the 5-inch black putting the top of the bead at six oclock on the black. What I'm saying is that it is holding groups smaller than the sights cover.

I like to take some other gun along with iron sights of the same class (hunting guns, in this case) to shoot as a comparison just in case I'm having a bad day and don't know it. If I can shoot about the same with both guns, it is not the loads but me & the conditions. This time it was an H&R .44 Mag Shikari single shot with open sights, and some loads I put together 5 years ago when I discovered I still had two part boxes of 240 gr. JHP's on the shelf for about 20 years. I just loaded them with 24.0 gr. WW296 and dumped them in a plastic bag, to shoot in the rifles whenever. Five of the 240 JHPs /24.0 gr. WW296 loads went into 4 1/2" from the Shikari, with open sights.

I found you cannot neck-size with the .30-30 dies, but you can seat and crimp with them. The shoulder of the .30 Rem is fatter and sharper than the .30-30 case. Well, not to worry - just whipped out my Herter's Worlds Best Universal Neck Sizing and Bullet Seating Die, and neck-sized those cases in a twinkling. Us old-timers have a lot of that kind of stuff squirreled away. I ordered in a set of .30 Rem dies, so it is only a stopgap until they arrive.

45 2.1 - I found some M81 parts I needed at Gun Parts Corp. (Numrich Arms), including a firing pin and spring.

[Ben]

26Charlie:

Here is a photo of a group that I fired at 50 yards with my Rem. 141, obviously an accurate load in rifle " A " won't always shoot well in rifle " B", but none the less, I thought you might want to see this.

The bullet is the 31141 sized to .309 dia. My rifle has peep sights on it. It is a grear shooter.I've never shot a jacketed bullet out of the rifle.

My Rem. 141 is in excellent condition, I wrote Rem. a letter and provided them with the S/N of the gun, mine is made in 1939.

These are fine old guns, glade I've got mine.

Thanks,

Ben
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/5676.jpg

[PatMarlin]

Anyone got some pics of these ( Remington M8) rifles?

[waksupi]

Try this.

[26Charlie]

I took 'em all out again to try some new loads, pushing up the charges a bit to try to get the best velocity with reasonable accuracy for each gun. All were tried at 100 yards "wrist rest", resting the front hand over a padded block on the bench and holding the rifle solidly. All loads were tried from a full magazine of 5; 10-shot groups were two magazines full. All the rifles have a big front bead, with a U-notch rear, except the M8 .30 Remington has a peep rear sight. Groups range from "fair" (7 to 8 inches, paper plate accuracy) to "pretty good" (4 inches, beer can accuracy).

.30 Rem M8 -
SAECO 304 175 gr. FPGC, 27.0 gr. Accurate 2460 - 10 in 7 1/4".
Lyman 311291 175 gr. RNGC, 27.0 gr. Accurate 2440 - 10 in 9 3/4".

RCBS 30-180-FP 190 gr. FPGC, 19.5 gr. 4198 - 5 in 4". This is Ben's load above.
Military M2 150 gr. ball, 32.5 gr. Accurate 2460 - 5 in 3 7/8".

.32 Rem M81 -
Lee C324-175-R 175 gr. RNGC, 22.5 gr. 4198 - 10 in 8 5/8".
Lee C324-175-R 175 gr. RNGC, 27.0 gr. 3031 - 10 in 8 1/2".
Lyman 323481 200 gr. PtdGC, 26.0 gr. Scott 4197 - 5 in 4 3/4".

.300 Savage M81 -
SAECO 304 175 gr. FPGC, 30.0 gr. 3031 - 5 in 7 3/8" but 4 of those in 3 7/8".
Lyman 311291 175 gr. RNGC, 30.0 gr. 3031 - 5 in 5 5/8" but 4 of those in 3".
This gun likes to throw one wide shot to the left - maybe me - stock has been shortened.

.35 Rem M81 -
RCBS 35-200-FN 200 gr. FPGC, 34.0 gr. 3031 - 5 in 4 1/2".
SAECO 352 250 gr. FPGC, 33.5 gr. 3031 - 5 in 4 3/8".

All loads functioned the actions.

These rifles are heavy, chunky-feeling, compact, and have a funny recoil feel, but I feel like I have cutting-edge technology (for 1910) in my hands with them. You either like them or you don't - I don't have any other semiautos except for the obligatory M1 rifle & carbine, and haven't been attracted to any of the M14 or black guns, but I really enjoy these.

[Buckshot]

"............ You either like them or you don't - I don't have any other semiautos except for the obligatory M1 rifle & carbine, and haven't been attracted to any of the M14 or black guns, but I really enjoy these."

............Carefull there! Your 'funky' streak is showing :-)

............Buckshot

[26Charlie]

Just had the urge to shoot a match with one of these rifles, so I took the .300 Savage Remington M81 to the CB match at Hamilton Rod & Gun in Sturbridge, MA. Match rules are scoped rifles to be shot offhand, iron sighted rifles may be shot in any position, black powder rifles may be shot from crossed sticks. In practice, you can't see the pigs over the chicken berm from prone, so sitting or kneeling are required. I shot sitting.
Rifle has open rear notch and gold bead front sight. Rear notch is one of those adjustable for elevation by loosening little screws and sliding an insert up & down - not something you would want to do in a match. I had sighted it to strike center of a black 5" bullseye at 100 yd. with the top of the bead at six oclock on the black. The insert was almost all the way down, so I had two references for elevation - top of the insert and top of the sight.
The load was 195 gr. 311644 with 24.0 gr. Scot 4197. Gives me about a 3" to 3 1/2" 5-shot group at 100 yd. I had no elevation data for longer ranges, so I was feeling my way as I went. I did have a spotter to help me. This load gives me about 20% failures to eject.
Held top-of-bead at the foot of the chickens at 100 yd. - got nine chickens.
Held top-of-bead center on the pigs at 150 yd. - got nine pigs.
Held so the head of the turkey was just peeking over the top of the bead at 200 yd. - got four turkeys.
Held top-of-bead even with the top of rear sight and tried to hold that center on the rams at 250 yd. - half-scale rams - hit one ram. Pinging in close enough so that if they were full-size rams I would have had a decent ram count.
The front bead obscured the rams and turkeys pretty much completely, but I was pleased at being able to keep the shots in pretty close at the longer ranges, and happy with my 23. Match was won by my spotter with a 32 (I spotted for him), using his M54 Winchester.30-06 for which he has scads of data. He goes out to win, and does win. I go out to play, and if I win something once in awhile so much the better. But for me the use of some unusual gun is more fun.

[NVcurmudgeon]

26Charlie, dunno if the M81 has the same seven-groove barrel as a M141 pump, but mine does very well with the Lyman 311466 152 gr. Loverin type boolit.

[Denver]

This thread just reminded me that I have an M8 35 Rem that I bought about a year ago and haven't shot lately. I got about the same results for accuracy with cast as 26 Charlie. I've done a bit more load work since then, so I'm gonna grab her up and head for the shack to pop off a few.
This rifle has the factory open sights and doesn't have any extra holes. My guess is it hasn't seen much use at all and retains most of the original finish. I'd sure like to find one of the original peeps made for this gun, but they're RARE, and mighty pricey when they are found. :(

:castmine:

[NVcurmudgeon]

I found a Lyman tang sight for my Rem. 141 at Auction Arms. It was nearly $80 including shipping, but that was five years ago. Believe that sight fits Rem. 8, 81,
14, and 141 and no others, so they are as rare a bird as a pterodactyl.

[KCSO]

At one time I had a whole collection of 8's and they all were good reliable guns. I got a book called Remington Model 8 with the guns and I may still have it. There was no 30 Rem brass available when I got my gun and so I made a rim forming tool for the lathe and made 30's from 30-30 brass. I was surprised at the accuracy of these guns as i thought that 4" at 100 yards would be about it and I got every one of them to shoot under 2 1/2" at 100 with very little trouble. I do have a mould that Dan cut for me for the 30 Remington. This is basicly a copy of the Lyman 31141 with a little less meplat. It sure feeds good in the semi autos.

[crazy mark]

This thread just reminded me that I have an M8 35 Rem that I bought about a year ago and haven't shot lately. I got about the same results for accuracy with cast as 26 Charlie. I've done a bit more load work since then, so I'm gonna grab her up and head for the shack to pop off a few.
This rifle has the factory open sights and doesn't have any extra holes. My guess is it hasn't seen much use at all and retains most of the original finish. I'd sure like to find one of the original peeps made for this gun, but they're RARE, and mighty pricey when they are found. :(

:castmine:

Once in a while I see a guy at gun shows that has a few of the peeps. They are $140 or so. When I bought my peep it was around $90. I saw a 35 Rem with a peep a couple of weeks ago and should have bought the whole rifle as it had a $300 price tag on it. Mark

[FAsmus]

Gentelmen;

This is a pretty old thread alright but I just got to thinking about the M08 and it's successor the M81 and wondered if there were any more of them out there.

If there are they sure don't show up on the gun-sales sites I've looked at so far ~ and I am interested in buying one, preferably in 30 Remington.

Any replies or information would be appreciated.

Good morning,
Forrest

[Freischütz]

If you're interested in M8 and 81, get John Henwood's book The Great Remington 8 and Model 81 Autoloading Rifles. It's published by Collector Grade Publications.

[KCSO]

Well I have 4 of them again and am looking for a 25. Seems like the peep sights are a lot more scarrce than the guns. I am currrntly makeing cases from 30-30 for 30 and 32 Reemington. I even made up a cutter to do the rimeremoval and the groove in one shot.

[FAsmus]

KCSO;

My idea for the rifle would be to simply get some 6.8x43 cases and neck them up/down for the issue calibers ~

How about selling the 30 Remington? Any ideas?

Good morning,
Forrest

[KCSO]

Thaks a lot fellow, you got me back into Remingtons. I now have a collection again everything from 30 Remington to 300 Savage and am looking for a 25 Remington. I also dug out all the instructions books and tin signs I got with the last bunch. Boy have I got Model 8.

Did kill a deer this year with one and the 35 with cast still works as good or better than jacketed.

[FAsmus]

KCSO:

Sure you have a M8! .. Would you like to sell it?

Good morning,
Forrest

[floodgate]

The Model 8's had a clear identifier for the correct cartridge, in the form of a dummy case-head with caliber stamp inletted into the upper left front corner (? - I am working from memory here) of the receiver. A friend had a couple of these, and one early .25 had the headstamp ".25-35 REM.". I checked around, and found that some of the early .30s had a similar ".30-30 REM." identifier. Apparently the ammo companies - Remington, at least, used these headstamps for a year or so, and a cartridge collector recently found me one of the .30-30 REMs. I'll bet these markings caused some confusion in the gun-shops - and some bad language out in the woods, when a shooter tried to feed standard, rimmed .25-35's or .30-30's into his M8!