uberti / pedersoli sharps... fffg and a dash of ...............

[kennisondan]

good morning shooters and lovers of the black magic thundersticks...
hope all is better than good with you .
here is my newest question :

!Q : I have read a good bit on using the fffg -- in order to counter the fouling and the inaccuracy that has been written about, what do you think about a dash of smokeless at the bottom of the load next to the primer ?
Reasoning is it is supposed to burn a lot cleaner and ten percent is allowable in the matches as well...
The reason for the question is not to beat the dead horse nor bring it back to life, but I am coming to understand that the smaller granules are likely harder to get to burn up but also they do produce more velocity/pressure....
with the right burn rate smokeless powder and starting about 55 grains of black fffg to 65 grains ?????? I was going to start with about 55 grains of pure black, but if a dash of smokeless is going to make it cleaner / less prone to fouling .. that is a way to use the fffg without the problems of fffg.. and a little extra fps does not usually hurt, but extra pressure is less fun..
unless there is some down side to it.
Boolits :
530 gr. cast
350 gr cast with a wad or two to take up space and give some compression.
I would like to use up the fffg and not have the problems with fouling ..

thanks
dk

[missionary5155]

Greetings
I have used smokeless "kickers" in my 45-70 Roller with a 32" barrel. I does burn a bit cleaner and does up the velocity some. But I decided some years ago I really did not need the extra work so I just stick to 2f loads and am just as happy.

[cajun shooter]

Black powder 3 F does not have any burning problems. BP burns from the outside in. The cannon grade powders have large grains that are all irregular shaped from one another. A good "sporting grade" 3 F powder burns well and faster than 2F. It therefore gives more energery to the charge and increases the velocity of the bullet. Several shooters even use 3F in the 45-70. You stated that a duplex load is allowed in matches. Which are you refering to as they are banned in all BPCR,SASS and Long range matches.

[kennisondan]

Hi Dave : I may run across the read again but I thought I did read that in some matches ten per cent was acceptable and in canada IIRC up to like 20%... but if you say it is not allowed in those matches I retract my statement and if by chance I run acrosss the source of the heresy I will share it
If ther are banned in those matches I would not want to break the rules.. even if they do not heck out the losers too closely..
lol
I sure don't recall where I read that tidbit and apologize for any misinformation.
thanks for all the hellp too fellas. corrections suggestions I love it
dk

[John Boy]

kennisondan, shooting duplex loads has been around since the late 1890's. It was used by Schuetzen Match shooters to increase velocity in their 200 yd off hand matches when Les Smoke powder (a form of smokeless) came into being. Because original gunpowder is hygroscopic, the addition of a nitro based powder eliminates fouling and does increase velocity. It has nothing to do with a presumed deficiency of a specific granulation of BP.

As for using duplex loads in matches ... that's an Oops! I confirm Cajun Shooter's statement that it is not allowed in NRA BPCR (Target & Silhouette) and SASS matches. It is allowed for ISSA Schuetzen matches.
5.1 Black or smokeless powder or any safe combination of powders may be used.

As for Canada, not familiar with Canadian Match rules

[kennisondan]

it is that I am mostly wrong about competitions.. OK .. I am going to shoot some with straight Black.. then load some up with a little duplex to compare.. might try to some low powered BP speed smokeless loads... for deer and plinking..
I am going to use pure black for any competitions I might back up into..

thanks for the skinny from all of you... at least it is not so simple I am bored with it already.. lol

dk
lots to learn.. that is a good thing.

[casterofboolits]

kennisondan, shooting duplex loads has been around since the late 1890's. It was used by Schuetzen Match shooters to increase velocity in their 200 yd off hand matches when Les Smoke powder (a form of smokeless) came into being. Because original gunpowder is hygroscopic, the addition of a nitro based powder eliminates fouling and does increase velocity. It has nothing to do with a presumed deficiency of a specific granulation of BP.

As for using duplex loads in matches ... that's an Oops! I confirm Cajun Shooter's statement that it is not allowed in NRA BPCR (Target & Silhouette) and SASS matches. It is allowed for ISSA Schuetzen matches.
5.1 Black or smokeless powder or any safe combination of powders may be used.

As for Canada, not familiar with Canadian Match rules

Wasn't the less smoke/reduced smoke 79.5% nitrate/21.5% charcoal? Was being produced at the same time the French were introducing Powdre B which negated the need for the less smoke formula.

[craveman85]

i shoot 3f with a 405 grain bullet from my 45-70 and like it. i get almost 1400 fps with 68 grains where as 70 grains of 2f i got the same velocity. i had a 10 fps window on each grain size. 3f burns cleaner and i can actually load a grain or 2 more powder with the 3f because of a denser load.

[craveman85]

you could always use a ball mill and make some super fine and put 1 or 2 grains on top of the primer and then use the 3f. not sure about the safety issues with it so do some more research but i dont thing 1 or 2 grains would hurt.

[northmn]

There have been "Duplex" loads using fine grained black priming powder such as 4f over the powder and then the regular powder like 2f for the main. Some even mix it in the load. So far no one seems to claim any great benefits although it is supposed to burn a little cleaner.

Northmn

[kennisondan]

thank you riflemen..
dk