FLAT Points

[Good Cheer]

Anybody load with totally flat point bullets for hunting?
Thinking about altering a 311284 to a shorter totally flat point for use in a 308 with 1:12 twist.
With a heavy 30 cal bullet I don't expect a detrimental loss of velocity at hunting distances. The flat point would be a plus.
Think it deserves a HP?

[RobS]

By "totally flap point" are your referring to something like a wad cutter as seen in handguns? If so, then you are probably not going to get much for accuracy at much over 100 to 150 yard distances. If you mean something similar like the RCBS 30-180-FN, Lyman 311041 309-173-FN, or the Lee 309-170F then it would be a decent bullet that should work well at most hunting ranges.

[Larry Gibson]

Feeding can be an issue with WFN cast bullets. Feeding can also be an issue with some FN bullets. A lot depend on the feed rails and where/when they release the case and at what angle. I find that regular FP moulds of .30 through .35 give excellent expansion out to 200 yards in game (deer) when cast soft of 50/50 alloy, HP'd 1/3 the nose length with a Forster 1/8" HP tool and driven to 2000 - 2200+ fps.

Larry Gibson

[missionary5155]

Greetings Good Cheer
Fellers have loaded the 35 Remington with 358 160 wad cutters (358432) and shot numerous critters with it. I would do some serious thinking about shooting much past 150 yards though as even a RN design begins slowing down rather fast.
What do you have in mind slaming the modified nose into ?

[jwhite]

Look at a 311440, that is a big flat point in .30 caliber and it hits hard. I am working with one right now in Ruger Hawkeye chambered in 7.62x39, will be be my deer load for this year.

JW

[Good Cheer]

Greetings Good Cheer
Fellers have loaded the 35 Remington with 358 160 wad cutters (358432) and shot numerous critters with it. I would do some serious thinking about shooting much past 150 yards though as even a RN design begins slowing down rather fast.
What do you have in mind slaming the modified nose into ?

Hey there Missionary 5155.
Pondering altering a real old 311284 to fit a 99 Savage for bambis. Would use an adjustable nose plug to juggle the length to best suit what the rifle preferred.

[missionary5155]

Hello again
I have no experience with the fine 99 system..
That would be the only issue I can see.
Tha shorter the boolit the more stable it is. I do know as mentioned above the 180 FNGC RCBS is just dandy out to 200 yds. I have used it in most my caliber .30´s and I would not hesitate to pop a corn cruncher out to 200 yards. It is no where´s near a WC and it really does a good job cast with 50-50 and down to 25-50 on the soft side.

[roverboy]

Has anybody used the Ranch Dog molds? I hear they are a great hunting bullet.

[Larry Gibson]

Suggest, before you alter the mould, you load 5 dummy rounds with the 311284 and then cut off the bullet nose where you want them and try the feeding in the M99. If they feed then go ahead and experiment.

Larry Gibson

[Thumbcocker]

Check and see if Frank Marshall did not do something along these lines with a 311284 with a fp filed on it in .30-30. My meonry is a little fuzzy on the details but I think he used slow powder and got less than 2000 fps but claimed it put deer down good.

[Ben]

Good Cheer

Take a look at " Pin C " in the link below :

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=91382

[Mk42gunner]

Suggest, before you alter the mould, you load 5 dummy rounds with the 311284 and then cut off the bullet nose where you want them and try the feeding in the M99. If they feed then go ahead and experiment.

Larry Gibson

I'll second that option from Larry.


Check and see if Frank Marshall did not do something along these lines with a 311284 with a fp filed on it in .30-30. My meonry is a little fuzzy on the details but I think he used slow powder and got less than 2000 fps but claimed it put deer down good.


He used a flat nosed top punch to swage the nose flat in his sizer. The article is in the third edition of Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook. I believe it is also on the CBA website.


Robert

[uncowboy]

I also will warn of feeding . I flatpointed 35Cal for my 358Win Frontier last year and A bullet a lot of people like in REMMIES Didn't feed in the Ruger. Someone sending me 10 Samples saved me from spendinf 100.00 on a mold that would not have workedfor me. Got the Mold I wanted and it feeds and shoots fine! Good luck , Flat bullets let you know when you connect!
J.Michael

[btroj]

Ranch dog moulds are made for hunting. I have used 3 different bullets from them on deer. The deer lost.
To me they are some of the best bullets for hunting. I like the big flat nose on them and they are easy to get to shoot well.

Brad

[roverboy]

Ranch dog moulds are made for hunting. I have used 3 different bullets from them on deer. The deer lost.
To me they are some of the best bullets for hunting. I like the big flat nose on them and they are easy to get to shoot well.

Brad

I've not used them, but I hear they are awesome.

[Good Cheer]

Made a chamber gage to check for length between case mouth and rifling. Gonna use it to judge by while scratching me head.
http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy192/SNARGLEFLERK/762chambergage.jpg

[pls1911]

Big +1 on the Ranch Dog designs.
However, on some newer marlin MG barrels, I've needed to seat them a litle deeper to allow chambering in short throats. Older pre MG barrels usually handle bullets crimped in the crimp groove as designed. They're accurate and will really put the whack on anything if you do your part.

[Good Cheer]

The fire formed chamber gage pictured above is 2.507" long. It cycles through the magazine into the chamber without a hitch. The total flat point would work in this particular 99 at least.

[BoolitBill]

I agree with jwhite in post #5 above. Lyman's 311440 should be just what you are looking for. BRP can make a mold for you:
http://brp.castpics.net/R1.html

[Blammer]

give this a look, it's a bit light from what you're thinking but there is one on hand and you can have it right away.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=92028

[hollow-point]

311440 with h-p!

[mroliver77]

My 311440 is stupid accurate and kills like the Hammer of Thor! I drive it 2000fps for out to 100 yard shooting and 2200 for out to 200 yards. It do slow down fast!
Jay

[arcticbreeze]

I only use FPs for hunting. I just posted a report with one of MiHecs GB 44/444 FP

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?p=1045696#post1045696

[lastborn]

Ranch dog moulds are made for hunting. I have used 3 different bullets from them on deer. The deer lost.
To me they are some of the best bullets for hunting. I like the big flat nose on them and they are easy to get to shoot well.

Brad
a+ on what Bras said

[pls1911]

Another Ranch Dog +1.
However, the 311440 is very good if your gun will feed it.

I have an NEI mold the same shape, #440 I think.... for a 45-70..
In my alloy it weighs a nominal 445 grains and when it hits, you hear it!!
What it hits, goes down. It's not for long range but but it's good to 100 yards, farther than most pigs.

[NHlever]

Check and see if Frank Marshall did not do something along these lines with a 311284 with a fp filed on it in .30-30. My meonry is a little fuzzy on the details but I think he used slow powder and got less than 2000 fps but claimed it put deer down good.


That story by Frank Marshall is in the Lyman #3 Cast Bullet manual.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Well, far, far from being an expert, but the results with my 355grLBT/WFN boolit ahead of 55.gr of RL#7 were Aaaaaaaaaaaasome in my first cast boolit critter taken back 2 or 3 weeks ago.

Should have started this cast boolit hunting back awhile, as age says I'll never become much of an expert with the time left.

Hope to take a few more cast boolit critters with my #1, as this first time makes, "impressive" a huge understatement!

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Doughty]

I am just recently back from my lastest hunting trip in the wide open lands of eastern Montana. Had an incident occur that involved "flat point" cast bullets.

My son and I were out one morning when he spotted a Mulie doe that had a good part of her right rear leg missing; presumably shot off. We both had doe tags, so we decided to try to get upon her and put her down. Well she was pretty alert and spotted us right away and was pretty good on her three legs at keeping her distance from us and gradually widening the distance.

My son decided to try a shot with his .308 Win. I used the rangefinder and marked her at a little over 400 yards with a strong but varing cross wind. He fired two rounds which we were not able to spot. He then suggested that I give it a try.

I was carrying my Ruger #1 chambered in .33 Krag (.30-40 Krag blown out to .338). The load starts the boollet off at 2400 fps. The boollet is WW & softer lead, tempered to about 28 BHN with a gas check and a "flat point" meplat of .225". My first shot was spotted several feet down wind and a little low. This caused her to move a little further out to maybe 475 - 500 yards before turning and looking back at us. My second shot was unspotted. High I thought. At my third shot there was a "Whoomph" and the doe started trotting downhill back towards us and after going about 50 yards went down for the count.

A close up examination showed that the boollet had hit high behind the shoulder striking a rib, angled down through the lungs missing the heart, nicked the edge of the stomach and exited. The entry hole was pencil size. The exit hole was thumb size. Meat in the ribs was blood shot for about an inch and a half from the hole. Lungs were pretty well scambled and there was only slight leakage from the stomach. Could not tell for sure what had severed the leg, but I believe it probably started with a bullet. Still had slight blood flow. No infection. I tagged her.

I relate this incident, not to start an off topic hunting ethics debate, or one about long range accuracy, but about the killing ability of hard "flat point" cast boollets and their effects on deer at long range.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Good report Doughty!!

Thanks!

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[leadman]

Just read an article in a June 1935 American Rifleman about using a boolit with a cylinder shaped nose of bore rider type. The author, F.C.Ness was trying to develop a glance proof bullet for varmint hunting in settled areas.
Hensley made the mold with four plungers for bullets that weighed from 115grs. to 135grs. These were fired in 30-06, 30-40, and a couple other 30 cal. rifles.
The comments on range made here are very similar to what the author and his shooting buddies experienced. The effect on game was said to be excellent with the solid and hp noses. Accuracy was good up to 100 yards and sometimes beyond.
Seems there is very little in the shooting world that hasn't already been tried.
Good luck with your project. Keep us posted.

[krag35]

I shoot the 311284 out of my Krag and 30-06 as cast and it works well for me.