Marlin 336D and my Lee TLC359-180-RF

[Ranch Dog]

I've got so many projects that I have had to put this one off for a while but finally popped a few rounds off through my 336D this week. I love this little special run gun. It a "Guide Gun" chambered in 35 Remington.

When I received my TLC359-180-RF from Lee...

http://home.awesomenet.net/~ranch-dog/Casting/TLC359180RF/TLC359-180-RF_Drawing.jpg

I cast some up with 1 to 10 (tin/WW) to verify the diemensions. Early this summer and after casting some with 1 to 1 linotype/WW I shot some out of the rifle.

http://home.awesomenet.net/~ranch-dog/Casting/TLC359180RF/TLC359_in_mold.jpg

The performance was terrible but in fairness to the boolit the rifle needed to have the bore cleaned to remove about 1000 rounds of jacketed ammo residue. The initial 100-yard 5-shot groups were 6 1/2"!!!

I finally got the rifle cleaned. There are the typical Marlin barrel restrictions but this one has them at the ports also. I went ahead and shot a 10 shot string loaded with 35.0-grains of H4895 (I'm using Hodgdon's data for the 180-grain Speer). I mainly wanted to see how the velocity compared to that of the Speer bullet from this rifle and also how it compares to the Hodgdon data for the 24" barrel (vs. the D's 18 1/2" barrel).

As I shot at one of my 18" wide by 36" tall targets I adjusted the scope (Bushnell Banner 1.5-4.5X32) at each shot moving the aiming point to the 4" square bullseye. As I got it close, I left the adjustments alone. I'm always happy just not to be hitting the chronograph! With each additional shot the point of impact seemed to be shifting down and to the right. The absolutely spotless barrel got that smoked appearance and with the last couple of shots the boolits started to impact together. There are a lot of boolit holes in this target ranging from the 25 ACP and 218 Bee to the 375 Win and 45-70.

http://home.awesomenet.net/~ranch-dog/Casting/TLC359180RF/336Dtarget.jpg

The larger circle contains the boolit holes once I left the scope adjustments alone. The smaller circle is the last three shots. The 3-shot group has an average radius of .50" as measured with my RSI software

The chronographed data from this starting load is almost identical to that of the the 180-grain Speer FP that I favored out of this rifle. It averaged 1847 FPS with an Average Deviation of 26 FPS and an Extreme Spread of 90 FPS. I believe I will be able to achieve the same velocities that I have been shooting that Speer bullet at; 2100 FPS. The max recommend load for that bullet is 39.0-grains.

http://home.awesomenet.net/~ranch-dog/Casting/TLC359180RF/TLC359with336D.jpg

The biggest victory for me was the overall length of the cartridge. I have tried all kinds of cast boolits and they all extend out of the neck and into the case robbing the cartridge of powder capacity. With an OAL of 2.34", the boolit is just off the lands of the "D". The base of the boolit was at the base of the case neck using ZERO case capacity!

It's raining today so I think I'm going to fire lap this rifle to remove all the poor spots in the barrel and then load up some cases to shoot a ladder and see what this little gun can do. There where only 1000 of the "D"s made and despite me being a 444 Nut I sure like this rifle. It is the lightest of the Guide type guns, kicks like a mule but I've found it very finicky to load for. May be it's just the poor finish inside the barrel.

All this enters the "who cares" category but there is so little info on cast in the 35 Rem (compared to other levergun calibers) I thought I would log my experiences as they progress.

[Mike Nesbitt]

RanchDog, Please tell me more about your shooting with the .35 Remington. That's a cartridge I've always liked. Also, why did you opt to go with your custom designed bullet instead of the standard old #358315? I have a Remington Model 141 and a Marlin 336A in .35 caliber, both with 24" barrels. The old Lyman/Ideal bullet seems to work pretty well in those guns. Shoot sharp, Mike

[Ranch Dog]

Greetings Mike... the bottom line for me is that everything out there is undersized (diameter) and too long robbing the case of valuable powder capacity.

I slugged the barrel and my "D" has (had) some major restrictions where Marlin roll stamps the owners manual on the side of the barrel. Twelve lapping bullets with 2.5-grains of Unique took care of that. I'm breaking in the barrel now, I have about 12-shots left, and the accuracy has been outstanding with each additional break-in shot.

[StarMetal]

Hey thinking about that roll engraving, good thing alot of companies have gone to that laser engraving, huh?

Joe

[Mike Nesbitt]

Michael, I saw your comments about bullets being too long and robbing the case of powder capacity. Let me admit, I thought that was when the base of the bullet (or the gas check) would be below the neck of the case. I don't think the #358315 bullets extend into the case. Anyway, that has been a concern of mine as well, for years. While we're on that subject, one of my very favorites is the old .303 Savage and I have a "reject" mould for #311291 that has an extra long heel. That added length gives the bullet a weight of 190 grains and I use it in my .303 Savage. That bullet has taken deer and bear. Now, back to your bullet design, it seems to have very shallow lube grooves. Do you think you're getting enough lube on the bullets? I'm asking because the older bullet designs all have more generous lube grooves and I do seem to follow the old designs first. Shoot sharp, Mike

[versifier]

Mike,
Welcome to the asylum.
TL (Tumble Lube) boolits like those pictured are designed to work with Liquid Alox at reasonable velocities and you don't need to fill the grooves. It works well with conventional boolits, too, and doesn't need to fill them either, as long as you get a coating of it you're all set. Some people like to dilute it (50/50 with paint thinner or mineral spirits) and dip their boolits before sizing/seating gas checks and that works well for me also. It minimizes the mess and eliminates sticky noses on loaded rounds. It works great with push-through sizers that size nose first and push on the base, seating the check at the same time. I have not tested TL boolits with conventional luber/sizers, so am not qualified to comment on how they work together, but I'm sure others will chime in.

[Mike Nesbitt]

Versifier, Thanks for the welcome. Tell your brother I said "thanks for the compliment" too. Now, about those liquid lubes, you're talking about things I've never heard of. I do have much to learn here. Shoot sharp, Mike

[versifier]

Liquid Alox and push-through sizers are just an inexpensive solution to the lubing and sizing problem. If you need a size that Lee doesn't make, Buckshot makes custom ones of much better quality and finish for not much more money (I think they're $19 incl shipping). The custom .310 die he made for me last winter has done amazing things for loads in .30carb, .30-30, .308, and .30-06. I seem to have lucked into four .30cal barrels that are all within .0005" of .300/.308 bore/groove, amazing since the first is a 10" Contender, the second a 40's vintage W94, the third a 60's vintage Rem 788, and the last a 1942 Garand. The .30-30 eats anything between .308-.311 without complaints, but the other three are picky and none of them shot really well with cast until I started feeding them .310's. I have loaded for four other .30-30's all with different actions, and all of them had the same user friendly attitude. It was kind of a rude awakening to discover that other .30 cal chamberings required a lot of experimenting to get them working properly with cast, but then I discovered this bunch and my education began. It's fair to say that I have learned more about smelting, alloys, and casting techniques here in the last year than in 30+ previous years of dubbing along at it on my own.

I have good results with .30cal LA lubed boolits from 90gr-180gr, but I load for accuracy rather than velocity no matter plain, gas checked, or jacketed. Most of the barrel leading horror stories I have heard come from trying to push LA too fast in rifles (or from using too soft an alloy and blaming the lube). That there are much better lubes for higher velocities I will be the first to admit. Hanging out here you will hear all about them from them what knows them best.

I also use it for .380ACP, 9mm, .38/.357, .40S&W, & .45ACP loads and have no complaints there, apart from sticky noses, easily cured with a little powdered mica or some paint thinner on a rag after they are loaded. I don't bother in cooler weather, but I can see as how it could be a real pain where it is hotter and more humid than New England. I dip the longer rifle boolits so that only the area of the driving bands is coated and the noses are clean. This works out better carrying a few rounds in a pocket in hunting season.

One thing LA does NOT work for is patch lube. I usually use melted-on beeswax and years ago I got into the habit of holding the patch in my mouth while charging and digging a ball out of the pouch. BIG mistake to try that with a LA-soaked patch. [smilie=1: They don't sell it for its flavor. :) It does, however, work very well on REALs and although I have not tried it, I assume it would work great on MaxiHunters too. MaxiBalls like something softer filling their grooves, though.

[Ranch Dog]

The LLA might not tast good but it sure smells good! The grooves look shallow but they contain a good amount of lube. I shoot the same lube groove in my various boolits up to 2400 FPS without any problems.

I lapped the barrel of my "D" and I'm in the process of breaking in the barrel... had to stop to go to work. Anyway, it's on the agenda to finish today along with getting a group buy ready to go out the door.

I started my "D" with this boolit and H4895 with 6.5" groups @ 100-yards. When I stopped shooting the other day, the groups where less than 1"!!!

[6pt-sika]

the standard old #358315

At the moment I have a pair of 336's in 35 (336SC and 336D)and a 336ER (356WIN) .

And I have two moulds , the RCBS 35-200GC and Ranch Dogs 180 grain mould .
I prefer the FP , GC designs .

However tell me more about the Lyman 358315. It wouldn't hurt to add another mould .

I also have a Lyman 215 grain SWC GC mould that was originally made for the 357 I believe . But I believe it may do alright in these three rifles as well.

[DOUBLEJK]

Nice boolit....
I've got lotsa guns but the one I grab most for big game huntin's my 336 in .35Rem....
I had a mold made for it along time back that casts a 235Gr WFNGC that fits it perfect....
It's accounted for a fair number of Deer n Elk over the years....n carries like a dream....took me a few years too figure out I didn't need to lug 9 LBs.. a gun up them hills too get my meat....:-D

[Beerd]

JJK,
can you post a photo or drawing of your boolit?
It sounds like a good one.
Beerd

[DOUBLEJK]

Beerd
Here is the PB of the same boolit...I unfortunately don't have any of the GC version cast....:cry:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/DOUBLEJK/245358.jpg

[Ranch Dog]

Continued here: My Marlin 336D Is Ready... (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?p=129825#post129825)

[Cayoot]

Now That's a purty boolit!!!!!

I'm thinking that we need to do a GB on that baby!

What % is the meplat on that?

Also, what are your feelings on us running a gb on it? (I'm talking the GC version here).

Bary


Beerd
Here is the PB of the same boolit...I unfortunately don't have any of the GC version cast....:cry:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/DOUBLEJK/245358.jpg

[Cayoot]

I think Ranch Dog's Boolit is also a thing of Beauty....but if I'm not mistaken, he sells his custom boolits...that's why I didn't ask him about running a gb on his. They sure are purty too though and obviously shoot great!

[Ranch Dog]

Nope... don't sell boolits or molds. Anybody can special order or group buy these mold designs from Lee. My only object here is to get Lee to catalog these highly sucessful tumble lube designs for the Marlin rifles! I think more shooters/hunters are turned away from casting than stick with it simply because the cataloged bullet molds didn't deliver what they expected. The Levergun calibers are ideal for cast boolits and we just need some made to properly fit the millions of Marlin rifles.

I think the only change I would make would be to drop the nose diameter to .354" but not sure I would do that. I'm kind of burt out on group buys, they are a lot of work but who knows after the first of the year.

Lee would like me to start selling these molds but I'm not real intrested in being a retailer. I sure would like to be able to buy one off the shelf when I needed it. Got testing and on the TLC379-210-RF to complete this weekend and I will be hunting with this boolit and that one in my Marlin 375 throughout the remainder of they year.

[Cayoot]

I think the only change I would make would be to drop the nose diameter to .354" but not sure I would do that. I'm kind of burt out on group buys, they are a lot of work but who knows after the first of the year.

Well, if you don't mind, give that modification alot of consideration. I would really appreciate your input on it.

Maybe, if you don't want to do it, I will (come Feb.) I'd really like some of your input on this after you kill a hog and deer with it.

When all is said and done, maybe I could get a couple samples sent to 45 2.1 and we could start the wheels turning on a gb.

I actually really like both of these boolit designs shown in this thread and would not be opposed to running gbs on both of them (one at a time of course), depending on what the perceived demand would be.

Just give it some thought eh?

Thanks

Bary

[Scrounger]

Maybe Bullshop (Dan) would be interested in marketing these molds in his shop and Internet sales.

[PatMarlin]

Problem with selling them is where's the profit? Slim at best.

With Lee selling 6 banger molds for $50 (for example) and the group buys running $56, how in the world can a guy make money by having to invest a bunch up front for any kind of inventory, to have enough types in stock to make a go of it.

Unless LEE is going to give you a 35-50% discount from retail (which they're not) and shooters are going to pay 35% or more for a Lee mold which they're not.

Can't make a business run if there's not a decent profit margin, specially when you have to tie up a bunch of your own cash.

[Ranch Dog]

Heck, I've got a business called Ranch Dog Outdoors so I'm thinking about going ahead and marketing the various RD molds. You got to buy them 100 at a time to make it work.

Tomorrow, they start drilling a gas well about 30-yards from were we killed the hog last night. May be that can finance my mold business [smilie=1:

[Poohgyrr]

A RD mold for the .25 auto? [smilie=1:

I guess a cup of lead would make a few hundred boolits... :mrgreen: