Goofy .45 ACP brass

[klausg]

Gang-
I originally posted this over on the reloaders side, then thought to myself that maybe I ought to put it here also. Over the weekend I was cleaning up about 2 gallons of .45 brass that I had scrounged. I came across something I, (at least), had never seen before. 14 Speer cases with small primer pockets :confused: . If this is old hat to you guys, so be it; but I figured it might wreak havoc on somebody's Dillon if they weren't careful. New lesson learned for Klaus; inspect everything, assume nothing!

Now, can anyone tell me why? I assume something to do with more uniform ignition...but that would be way better than I can shoot a 1911. Anyway, figured I'd put this out and hopefully save someone some headaches, among other things. Take care

-Klaus

[9.3X62AL]

I haven't seen this yet myself, but Speer does some unique things to their ammo--like using Berdan priming in their "no-deposit/no-return" aluminum Blazer cheepo ammo. I'm not sure what is gained through use of the small primer/pocket in the 45 ACP, other than to annoy reloaders.

[Beau Cassidy]

So far the only screwy primer pockets I have seen is the Winchester nontoxic. I think they are between large and small. They all go in the bucket to take to the recycler.

Beau

[StarMetal]

Hey Klausg,

See if those Speer cases might just be a hair shorter then the other larger primered cases. If so they may be 45 GAP for the 45 Glock GAP pistol that they come out with not too long back. The GAP round uses small primers.

Read the headstamp and report back.

Joe

[klausg]

Joe-
WILCO, though I'm at work, cases are at the house, might take awhile. IIRC the headstamp was "45 AUTO", but memory, like other things is starting to break. I'll give a full report, maybe even some pic's if my computer iliterate self can figure that out.
Take care.
-Klaus

[KTN]

I have seen some prvi partizan .45 acp cases with small primer pockets.Real PITA for reloaders,which propably is the reason they make them.


Kaj

[johniv]

I think Federal NT uses a small primer, and Fed. and Speer are both owned by Alliant, so "logic says" that they would be Non Toxic ammo.( this kind of thinking has gottem me in trouble before) Winclean nontoxic uses a bigger flash hole and others use a small primer. My understanding for this is that the unleaded primer is more violent and may leak gas back to the breech face and scar it, the bigger flash hole or smaller primer may prevent this. Just my .02 worth.
John

[mooman76]

I read some where's about this. Is it real old brass? If memory serves some of the real old stuff was small primer and then they desided to switch for whatever reason.

[redneckdan]

probably NT stuff. alitle birdy told me you can hotrod this stuff alitle more than the large primer brass before you start seeing pressure signs.[smilie=1:

[Lloyd Smale]

I wouldnt be hot rodding that nt brass. It may hide some of the pressure signs but the pressure is still there. Also it will effect the accuarcy of your loads. Just switching brands of primmers will effect accuarcy and going to a small primer will cause a bigger change. I use only fed primmers when working up loads for a handgun. There softer cups and show primmer flattening quicker then any other. Once ive developed a good load then i will try switch primers to fine tune it. Personaly i see no reason to hotrod a 45acp anyway. They have plenty of power for personal protection even without running +p loads and going higher then that just beats up guns.

[nelson133]

If it is Speer, it is the new non-toxic stuff. One of the local brass dealers had a bunch that he got as range pick up stuff from a leo shooting session. I didn't get any as I didn't want to get them confused with my regular brass, but they'd probably be alright if you kept them separate.

[RayinNH]

I'm pretty sure nelson133 has it right on this one. Environmentally safe. Pretty soon the projectile won't be any harder than a stale marshmallow either...Ray

[broomhandle]

Hi All,

I found about 30 Winchester cases with the small primer. (marked 45 auto)
As you say they ARE a pain with the Dillon.
I dumped them.

I think the 45 Glock is dead for now.
No reason for it at all.

Be well,
broom

[StarMetal]

Broom,

That's just your opinion on the 45 Glock GAP. The purpose of the pistol was to provide a 45 caliber pistol with the smallest grip possible, it achieved that. It is then, the smallest package most potent pistol caliber out there, including the 45 acp, which it beats in both in velocity and energy. It is use by quite a few respectable organizations including the Secret Service.

Don't forget we have women personel in both our police forces and military forces and alot of women of small stature have small hands. Even the current Beretta 9mm is bit large for most women's hand.

Joe

[dk17hmr]

My old man stops by some local ranges a few times a month, we have collected alot of brass over the last year. I have ran into a few of those small primer pocket speer brass. They went into scrap brass bucket, of course I ran into those ones when I was priming a bunch of brass.

[klausg]

Gang- I'll attempt to answer all the questions. First, they are headstamped "SPEER" & "45 AUTO", and measure an average .888". As to how old they are, my range brass method precludes that; I use a universal de-priming die and everything gets de-capped and goes straight in to the tumbler. My 1st inspection is whether or not it's worth picking up, then I don't really look at it until it's nice & clean. So, I couldn't really say how old it looked when I picked it up. It is also definitely a small pocket, I seated a Rem 1 1/2 in one with just the right amount of force, no forcing and no slop.

The question of age got me to looking a little closer at the stuff; I sacrificed one and cut it in half. While I definitely would not describe it as balloon head, there is a distinct "gutter" around the outer cicumference of the powder chamber. Hopefully I'll remember to bring some in to work tomorrow and I'll get a decent picture, (work has a much nicer digital camera than mine [smilie=1: ). Take care all.

-Klaus

[klausg]

Gang- got the pictures which may help explain some of my words. They worked on my test post so hopefully I can get them here; I had to split the photo to keep it under the magic 7" per Buckshot's instructions. First is a regular Win case, flanked by a 'goofy' Speer; second photo is a small pocket Speer w/a primer seated, a regular Speer and finally a cross-section of the small pocket version showing the "gutter". BTW that's black spray paint on the cross section; my tumbler does a better job than that.[smilie=1: Take care.