Broke LEE 6 cavity the first time out

[rullywowr]

So I smelted down about 135 lbs of wws today over my Coleman stove. During the last batch off ingot muffins, I fired up my 4-20 furnace to start casting.

I sooted my new LEE 401-175-TC 40 S&W (401 Diameter) 175 Grain Truncated Cone mold and prepared to make some boolits.

Did about maybe 100 or so and then WHAM! Broke the sprue plate handle right off near where it connects to the mold/cam area. (!) Also, the LEE handles I ordered for this mold seem to want to slide off. The wood handles want to slide off the metal part.

I dunno. Is it something I did/didn't do? Has this happened to anyone before? Just bad luck?

I finished casting about 750 boolits by resorting to wacking the sprue plate cam (now broken) with a rubber mallet. I ordered this through MidwayUSA, perhaps my best bet is to call them? Or maybe LEE?

[wallenba]

Is your mix really hard? Or are the sprue holes really large? I have a stubborn six cav that is a pretty good four cav now. Never had that happen though....yet.

[rullywowr]

No, the mix is just straight WW. Maybe not enough lube on the mold?

[wallenba]

No, the mix is just straight WW. Maybe not enough lube on the mold?

Maybe the stop bolt is too tight? Other than that maybe it was a defect that was going to break anyway at some time.

[lylejb]

You're not the only one to have this happen.

While I've been lucky enough to not have this happen (yet) I've read other threads here just like this.

Lee will warrenty it for you, but no guess how long that would take:confused:

I would at least call Midway, worst they can do is say no.

Lastly, if all else fails, you can order a sprue lever from lee for $5. Yeah, I know, you shouldn't have to. But it might just be worth it in headaches saved.

http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog/parts.cgi?1282411339.1482=90690

[geargnasher]

This happens to everybody, just that it usually breaks the ferrule and wooden handle off the spure plate, not the tang itself. Don't feel like the Lone Ranger!

The #1 cause of this is casting with a mould that is way too cool, or waiting too long to cut the sprue. To do it right, you need to get some Bullplate sprue lube and put just a very light film on the bottom of the sprue plate to keep it from galling /sticking to the blocks, also put just a very slight touch on the alignment pins and the bolt that the sprue plate locks into when you close it. Then you need to preheat that mould (you can do it on your Coleman by holding the mold over a burner like you would roast a hot dog weiner) until lead won't stick to the blocks. Then cut that sprue just as soon as it does the first major color change, that is when it gets dull. It will still be very soft and if you drop it off the plate into a pan or whatever you use it should break up into two-three pieces. In other words, run the ragged edge of cutting still-molten lead. Slow down a bit if cutting the sprue tears big chunks out of the boolit bases or if the boolit bases are still shiny/molten when you open the sprue plate.

The object here is to relieve as much stress as possible from the cam mechanism. If you try to cut a solidly frozen sprue it WILL break something every time unless you're using pure lead, and that will still leave humps in the boolit bases as the relatively dull aluminum "cutters" at the bottom of the well ride up and over the boolit base rather than cut squarely across it.

The main handles will slip right off, it is the nature of the beast. That's what you get for your twelve bucks. To finish the job that Lee didn't finish, tap them back on the tangs until snug, drill a 1/8" hole through ferrule, handle, and tang (clear through the whole thing) and install a 1/8" roll pin, cut it off flush and file the end smooth. You can also use JB Weld, but it can fail at temps over about 300*, so pinning is better. Pin your sprue plate handle while you're at it.

Hope this helps,

Gear

[rullywowr]

Awesome responses guys! Exactly what I needed to hear. I will call Midway first and see what they have to say about replacing the mold. I would just like to get another one of the same as I fear I may have wacked it out of allignment today after I was using it without the sprue plate handles.

As far as the roll pin idea... +1 to you, geargnasher! I am familiar with this as I had to pin my AR15's collapsible Magpul stock as I live in an non-EBR friendly state (CT).

Would Moly anti-seize work well on the sprue plate top and pivot areas?

[sargenv]

This happened to me.. twice.. (one after the other) and the problem is trying to do too much with a cold mold. I did it with wheel weights.. poured all 6 cavs on a cold mold, then tried to break the sprue.. *SNAP!*.... ok, I have another mold, I'll just substitute that one on here and *SNAP!*... Call Lee and they replaced both of them.. what I do now to warm up the mold is to move the sprue completely out of the way and pour all 6 cavs.. and then open the mold and whack the connected 6 boolits and sprue.. I do this about 5 times.. and after #5, the mold is pretty much up to operating temp. It is easier for me to do it this way than have a separate hot plate or dip a side into the melt.. Seems easy enough and before long I am casting nice clean boolits.

The ppl at Lee were gracious and had the spare parts out quickly.. I see it as part of the learning curve for the 6 bangers.. I really like the high production that they afford me.

After re-reading the OP, that was the same exact mold I snapped mine on.. lol, I now have 4 of the 6 cav molds..

[geargnasher]

The roll pin wasn't my idea, I was just passing it on as it worked extremely well for me. Many other people here on this great forum have been doing this for many years before I got my first Lee six-banger and they deserve the credit.

Gear

[rullywowr]

Awesome idea, nonetheless. The roll pin will work fantastic, just like on the AR.

[skimmerhead]

did you wait too long to cut the sprue maybe? lee handles will do that, but the expensive handles are no better, bought two set's of kal tec handles, on the first time i used em they came off after 12 cast, had to change handles. i can buy three sets of lee handles for the price of one set of kal tec. now you can send them back to lee they'll replace em or fix em yourself. your sprue cutter handle may have a defect,just send em back for replacement. as for my kal tec handles i have to fix them myself, i was told they would send me the wood and change em myself. and if i broke em i was on my own. now what kinda warranty is that! i will never buy, own, accept as a gift of kal tec handles. i have two sets i thought of selling them, but i could not do that to anyone. i have since hid them in a closet where i can;t see em, cause when i do i get angry, replaced them with three sets of lee's from midway,with shipping it cost four dollars more than what i paid for one kal tec set. plus midway warranty.

skimmerhead :(

[John Boy]

My vote is the caster - not the mould:
For the 1st 100 bullets, the mould was not up to temperature, plus the sprue plate bolt is too tight necessitating that the sprue plate be forced to open and to cut under temperature bullets - not just one but six. Look at the galled sprue plate in the picture from the bolt scraping the top of the plate. With any mould, the sprue plate should be able to swing freely with a flip of the wrist and leave no marks on the plate. No way that could happen with the bolt as tight as it is

What was the temperature of the melt when the handle broke?

[MT Gianni]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=4790
The 6 cavity sticky at the top of this page.

[Char-Gar]

Ah yes..the joys of Lee molds. I broke the spru cut off handle on my first lee six hole mold just as you discribed. The Lee mold is made of cheap metal and doesn't have much leverage. If you continue to use them, you will learn to cut the spru while it is still soft. You can't whack on the handle much without it breaking.

Wood seperates from the metal part of the handles on a regular basis. I have had this problem with both Lee and Lyman handles. I just mix up some two part expoxy and coat the metal and pack a little down in the wood and jam them together. Kinda messy, but they won't come apart again.

[rullywowr]

My vote is the caster - not the mould:
For the 1st 100 bullets, the mould was not up to temperature, plus the sprue plate bolt is too tight necessitating that the sprue plate be forced to open and to cut under temperature bullets - not just one but six. Look at the galled sprue plate in the picture from the bolt scraping the top of the plate. With any mould, the sprue plate should be able to swing freely with a flip of the wrist and leave no marks on the plate. No way that could happen with the bolt as tight as it is

What was the temperature of the melt when the handle broke?

I am sure it was me. 100% I am a noob caster, and this was my first time trying anything related to cast boolits. Today was the day I figured I would smelt down the wws and fire up my new LEE 4-20. I have been absorbing knowledge from this forum and YouTube as well as gathering all the required tools/safety gear needed. I was getting pretty good fill out and release from about 720 degrees with this mold. As a noob, the thing that freaked me out the most was when I added some lead ingots (muffins) to my 4-20 and the temp went so low that the nozzle didn't even work.

As far as the mold, I even let it warm up on top of the pot for about 30 minutes or so. I think my main mistake was not adjusting the tightness of the sprue plate bolt (as you suggested) and not lubing it properly. I hope Midway will take it back and just exchange it for a new rig. If not, I will try LEE. No big rush, I would rather have it done right than in a hurry. In the meantime I will get some roll pins and throw the handles under the drill press and pin them.

A big "THANK YOU" to everyone on this forum. I am very new at all of this melting/smelting/casting and everyone I have had the pleasure of talking to and dealing with is treating me like their own son/brother etc. I feel like part of the "fam" already. I am addicted to making shiny little boolits out of some dirty grungy buckets of wws and everyone here so far has been a great help. I am sure I will have more questions as I get in deeper. :castmine:

[skimmerhead]

what's the point of paying three times as much for handles that you have to fix anyway! at least you have lee and midway warranty. my warranty! fix it yourself and your on your own!!!! wow that's not right, but i learned my lesson the hard way, if i have to fix handles it's gonna be lee's from midway. i may have to change my signature, it seem's backward on those expensive handles.


skimmerhead :!:

[buck1]

Upgrade! see link...
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=91975

[Elkins45]

Why spend shipping to send them back? I would just call Lee on Tuesday and explain the situation. I have little doubt they will just send you a new sprue plate at no charge. Even if I'm wrong, I'm almost positive you can get Midway to send you a new one.

[Maven]

rullywowr, One solution is to fill only the first 2 cavs. with your alloy, let it solidify and then cut those sprues. Repeat this several times, say 5, and then move on to the next 2. I.e, fill 4 cavs., cut the sprues and repeat. Do this until you can cut all 6 sprues with little effort. Btw, as the previous poster said, a telephone call to Lee Precision will solve your problem.

[geargnasher]

you can set your six-cavity mould on top of your 4-20 furnace all day and it won't get hot enough to even begin to cast with. You need to preheat it, either by using gas flame or (the best way) set it on a hot plate turned all the way up for at least ten minutes. It needs to be HOT before you start casting with it. It needs to be so hot that molten lead won't stick to it, that means about twenty times hotter than you think is hot enough. After preheating, dip the front corner of the mould in your melt and pull it out. If lead sticks to it heat it some more. If it just falls off and plops back into the pot, you're good to go. The mould should be over 400 degrees before you try to cast. Try what Maven and others suggest by filling one or two cavities at first (start near the pivot bolt, farthest away from the handles where the leverage is best) and gradually increase. It's important to preheat the sprue plate, too, or it will just freeze the sprues solid before you can cut them.

That mark on the sprue plate by the lock bolt washer can be caused from cutting cold sprues, not necessarily because it is too tight. Those that think it might be too tight forget that if the sprues ar cold when cut, the dull aluminum sprue plate doesn't cut clean across but rides up over the boolit bases leaving rounded humps in the boolit bases. As the sprue plate rides up and over it scrapes against the stop bolt head from the upward pressure, galling like in your photo.

Gear

[JIMinPHX]

I think that the most common cause of those handles breaking is not having the sprue plate closed ALL the way before you pour the lead. Those handles count on leverage to get the job done & if the little cam isn't all the way in contact with the blocks, in the fully closed position, when you start to pull on the handle, then you loose most of your leverage.

I've screwed up & not closed mine all the way a few times, When I catch myself doing that, I stick a screw driver or thin piece of plate under the cam end to give it something to bite on to start the cut. So far, that's kept me from busting any handles (knock on wood) even when cutting fully cooled wheel weight sprues.

I do normally cut the sprues while they are still a little soft whenever possible to take the load off the sprue handle.

You can also check to see how sharp the edges at the bottom of the sprue holes are. If you see a big flat down there, then the counter sinks need to go deeper.

All that aside, Lee is pretty forgiving when it comes to making good on a broken item that they manufactured. They may just send you a replacement part for free. Even if they do charge you, a sprue lever for a 6-banger (part# SC1156) is less than $5 - http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog/parts.cgi?1283710426.3590=90690

[JDFuchs]

I ran into a bit of bad luck 3 months ago. and that happened to 3 of my 6 bangers! Once i get my mill up and running im going to make my own, with a nice reinforced handle that is one pice with the sprueplate.

[theperfessor]

+1 to JIMinPHX said. Close it all the way. Just don't try to hold it closed by grabbing it along with the mold handles, it can cam the blocks apart enough to cause finning.

[mold maker]

I have lots of LEE 6 cav molds, and haven't had any broken parts , YET... But so many others have that I bought a spare sprue plate and handle to have on hand when it inevitably happens. I don't want a few seconds of inattention to stop me from casting.
By the way Midway has the Lee handles on sale right now.

[John Boy]

Of course, everybody has different luck with Lee moulds, but of the six - 6 cavities I've had ... not one issue. I say had because I just sold 4 of my Big Lubes. Last marathon was casting 50 lbs of 454190's from the group buy 6 cavity mould ... not a hitch

Will say this though ... When I 1st get any Lee, they get a complete 'tweak job'
I have 9 that I use pretty regular except for the round balls

[GLL]

skimmerhead:

Are your "kal tec" handles those from KAL Tool & Die in Manitoba, Canada? If so, which model do you have?

Rather than throwing them in the closet I will buy them if they are a model I use !

Jerry


http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e239/RedRiverRick/Handles/AAA004xx.jpg


http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=56554&highlight=KAL

[rullywowr]

Totally. Looking at the sprue plate itself, it seems that the top pivot screw was loose. I bet this was also a contributor to why the metal on the sprue plate top was being sheared by the stop bolt. With the sprue now being taller than normal, this may have had something to do with it.

In addition, the mold was out of allignment causing some finning and out of round bullets. I pounded in the pins with a punch and hammer and it locks up much better now. I am debating on whether to ask LEE for just a new end plate mold or the whole thing.

Even better, I have nothing to do right now so I think I may fire up the pot and see how it casts.

[rullywowr]

Um, houston - we have a problem.

I continued to cast tonight but now snapped one of the LEE mold handles. DOH! This MIM stuff is just ****. After adjusting the mold and cleaning it up, I was making some really nice boolits just on the shiny side of frosty. I am certainly done now until I can get a replacement. LEE is getting a call from me on Tuesday morning. Thanks for everyone's help and suggestions. Especially the roll pin through the mold handles, warming up the mold techniques, and everything else.

LEE should really come out with a "PRO" series of handles which is a bit more expensive but is either stamped or cut from real steel.

[Springfield]

Why should LEE make the handle out of steel, there isn't any pressure on them when used correctly! I have at leat 20 LEE 6 cavs and cast at least 2000 bullets a week and have never broken the sprue handle and certainly not the mould handles. Preheat the mould by dippping the end in the lead, use a hot plate, something! Jeez, beat on the mould and then expect the maker to give you a new one!