Soo.. I bought a Cannon, and could use sme help

[NoZombies]

While perusing the gun show today I came across an Italian made miniature cannon. I couldn't help myself and bought it.

It appears to be pretty well made and even has a rifled bore. I've got a .451 ball mold I can use for making balls for it, but That's about as far as I've gotten.

Any recommendations on loads for this little guy? I assume a patched ball is sufficient for a projectile, but I can't even begin to figure out the load of black powder to use.

Also, where do you guys get your cannon fuse?

Thanks!

[FL-Flinter]

First thing you need to do is verify for positive that it is in fact intended to be a working model and not just "for show". Many were made just as decoration pieces and some schmuck drilled a touch hole in it. These can be extremely dangerous as the barrels are NOT made to contain the pressure of burning powder. Others were only made for firing light blank charges. Until you know for absolute positive this particular one was intended to be fired, DO NOT attempt to fire it. If it is in fact a firing model, loads should be kept very low and allow for sufficient range safety as even a .45 PRB can travel well over 1000 yards.

[NoZombies]

Not bad points to make. I'll be sure to be aware of my backstop etc.

I'm pretty sure that this one was intended to be fired, it's marked .45 caliber black powder only, and the bore is rifled, muzzle crowned etc.

Do you guys think that about 15 grains (volume) of 2F would be a good place to start?

And the cannon:

http://nozombies.com/cannon1.jpg

http://nozombies.com/cannon2.jpg

http://nozombies.com/cannon3.jpg

[Skipper]

http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.php?PHPSESSID=5koglk509amkgg9l6t8qjr9n42&board=88.0

[0verkill]

I know one way I heard the Ol' Timers dermined a load for a specific caliber was to lay the proper ball in the palm of their hand and just barely pour enough power to cover the ball, this gave the proper amount needed. All that aside 15 grains sounds like a good starting point. I had a Pietta repro cap&ball that reccomended 15 grains of FFF as a "target" load. Considering the cannon has the same size bore, possibly a shorter barrel (the 1858's was 8") and no barrel cylinder gap of course, I'd safely venture that as little as 10 grains of either FFG or FFFG would be enough to insure the ball left the barrel.
You may not need a wad either if your roundballs are .451, unless the bore is the same diameter as most muzzleloading rifles, .458 to .460. I've noticed, especially with modern Spanish manufacture muzzleloaders, the bores seem to be a bit larger than need be.
As for the cannon fuse, I believe Nathcez has some. If you have one of their catalogs, it's in the section with the powder and primers. The website is NATCHEZSS.com, I don't have a direct link and their seach function can be difficult sometimes, I'll try to find the item number and PM or post it later.

[10 ga]

It's a cannon man! Use cannon or at least F grade BP! It'll keep the pressure down. I'd say start with 15 gr. and work up. Put a white dropcloth in front and when you start getting a lot of unburned powder on the cloth you're over max charge for that barrel, it aint long enough to burn any more. Have fun and keep us informed. With practice you should be able to easily hit a 5 gal bucket at 50 yds. 10

[twotoescharlie]

looks like it might be one of the old CVA's that they sold at one time.

TTC

[imashooter2]

It is a CVA "Mini Old Ironsides." They came in a kit and yours seems to still have the barrel in the white. A nice browning will really enhance the looks.

CVA manual calls for a .440 patched ball with 10 grains of 1f start load and 30 grains 1f maximum.

Crappy cell phone pic of mine. Don't stand directly behind it. It will move a whole lot when fired.

[10 ga]

It is on a "naval" carriage. Made for moving on the gun deck of a wooden ship, forward to, stick out the gunport, then back for access and loading. They were secured with a system of ropes and blocks for movement and security. Put some small diameter "rope" on it and secure to a weight to absorb recoil and shoot on a flat surface like plywood. Back in the day of wooden ships and iron men the sailors bunked in hammocks between "their guns" and when in port would have "visitors" and that is how "son of a gun" came to be. Lots of useless info can arise out of a simple post on this board. 10 ga

[JIMinPHX]

It's a cannon man! Use cannon or at least F grade BP! It'll keep the pressure down. I'd say start with 15 gr. and work up.

I respectfully disagree with the choice of powder. It's .45 cal. I'd pick a powder that is suitable for a .45 cal bore. Cannon powder is for large diameter bores with large powder charges.

I do agree that 15 grains sounds like a reasonable place to start with a .45 cal BP barrel. Some old timers say to use a charge that is equal to half the caliber. In that case, 45/2=22.5 grains.

[hickstick_10]

I find a half pound of 2f works fine for me.

You may wish to reduce your charge to about 20 grains of 3f
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0d706b3127ccefb62e41f0aae00000030O00EZOHDJs4asw e3nwY/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

One thing you may want to seriously consider is making some sort of lintstock to light your cannon with, or a long barbecue lighter. Fuse is nice, but I find it tedious and prone to misfires, which is dangrous regardless of caliber.

A light charge is much more enjoyable then a heavy charge, as you can see the ball in flight.

Dont flick your bic and hold it to the touch hole, for obvious reasons.

And I wouldn't worry about it being a non functioning model, as it appears to be rifled, perhaps made from stubs of muzzle loading barrels.

Enjoy your new piece of ordnance :)

[gnoahhh]

Hickstick, that is a fine looking gun and carriage, but you gotta get wooden spoked wheels for it!!

I turned a few small scale brass cannon barrels in my life, always bored to shoot 1/2" ball bearings. 15-20 gr. FFg was what I used. Priming charge of FFFFg and a linstock for ignition.

I was a re-ennactor artilleryman for a while and I carried the safety techniques over to the small scale stuff, ie: swabbing between shots, thumbing the vent closed when loading, etc. Those small balls will carry a long way so be careful when laying the piece and be sure of your backstop. Use two pieces of cord, with a little slack, to anchor the gun to stakes set in the ground in front of it to arrest recoil.

Another fun thing is to make up some cannister loads with birdshot, or grape shot loads with larger shot like BB or T shot.

[firefly1957]

I have had one of these since the 1970's it calls for 10-30 grains of FFG powder tip they have more power than you think. Recoil will make the ball go higher than the bore is pointed and 10 grs can send a ball 1/2 mile or more. In my youth I tried on several occasions to blow mine up I do not recommend this but will tell you the cannon is still in one piece and I still have mostly functional fingers. For a noise maker a LOT OF NOISE I overloaded that cannon and used paper towel wadding to build pressure up these things recoil backwards DO NOT STAND BEHIND THEM.
If I remember right 30 grs. would send it 6-8 feet backwards and some "BLANK LOADS" sent it 40 feet and it would of hurt anyone behind it.

[John Taylor]

Ah, the fun of shooting a cannon in competition.The smaller one has a two inch bore and was loaded with 1,000 grains of powder with a 2 pound lead ball. The larger one is a 2/3 scale of a 6 pounder. It uses a 3 pound lead ball and 1,500 grains of powder. For your little 45 I would say 10 to 40 grains of 3F or 2F powder. Recoil will move it back a bunch with the heavy loads. We double charged a canon with a 1&3/4" bore for a "proof" and ended up with a carriage that was shattered. Be very careful with blank charges, a 1" bore canon was tested against a piece of 1/2" plywood at 10 feet and put a wad of paper right through it, also destroying the lawn chair sitting on the other side of the plywood.
http://johntaylormachine.com/typo3temp/pics/c10a458df7.jpg