405 JES ... What´s this one

[missionary5155]

Good morning
I would give Mr. Jesses Ocumpaugh a call but from here in Peru it would be a bit costly...
But any one know what this caliber is ? Is this a 30-30 chamber but bored to .410.. if so that would have to something interesting to do with an old rusted bore 336. [smilie=2:

[Nobade]

From what I can gather it is a 444 Marlin necked down to take .410 bullets. I don't much see the point unless you had a 41 mag revolver and wanted to shoot the same bullets out of your rifle really fast.

[pmeisel]

There was one for sale on Gunbroker awhile back and I damn near bought it. Could 't get the wife signed on in time....

I don't remember all the details but it looked pretty interesting.

[missionary5155]

Thanks I was hoping it was a 30-30 necked up to .410.. That is an idea I have been rolling around.. a sort of 41 super super mag.

[Jack Stanley]

I wonder how a something like that would work with two hundred forty and two hundred sixty-five grain bullets .

Jack

[No_1]

I just called him for you but had to leave a message. If he calls back I will post the info.
Robert

[missionary5155]

Thanks No 1 !!!
Yes on the Heavy cast for the .41-30 hybred. I see 265 gc as a starter and looking at 275-280 GC as the standard. I was going to rebarrel a 336 to 414Super mag and saw the Jess 41. I then started thinking how easy a simple rebore of a 30-30 would be and saw he does .410 rebores... I can get 1500 fps with 1680 under the 265gc in my 414 SM dan wesson so a 280 in a long barrel should be coughing along at near 2000. Plenty of smack for any criter I will ever hunt. Then IF I ever tire of it I can rethread the barrel back to 414 SM length and play with that.
I guess I need to start hunting a 336 30-30 with a rusted bore.

[shooter93]

Sounds similar to a 40-70 sharps straight. Cases for it used to be made from 30-40 Krag cases.

[6pt-sika]

Thanks I was hoping it was a 30-30 necked up to .410.. That is an idea I have been rolling around.. a sort of 41 super super mag.

Thats an idea WInchester had on the drawing board back in the early 1980's . It was said that they were going to release a cartridge called the 408 WIN based on a case with the same rim dia as the 30-30 .

But it "is said" that they would only do this if the 375 WIN showed really good numbers . And as we all well aware the 375 didn't and the 408 never came to be !

[No_1]

Jesse returned my call today. This is a 444 reformed. He said he can rebore a 3030 (as long as it has a barrel cap) and also provide the form die for $250.

R.
Ps. He sure seemed like a nice guy on the phone.

[missionary5155]

Thanks again no 1 ! I sure appreciate that !
I think I will have a rusty barrel 336 moved up on my list of things to be getting.

[pmeisel]

What is the benefit of stepping down from the 444 to the 405, I wonder aloud?

[Dark Helmet]

Umm, .41 bullets and a little more velocity!

[Groo]

Groo here
Sounds like a 411 JDJ from SSK..
I have one in a Contender 10in Quite a powerhouse...

[StrawHat]

What is the benefit of stepping down from the 444 to the 405, I wonder aloud?

Better penetration perhaps and also the uniqueness of non factory loads.

[excess650]

Thanks I was hoping it was a 30-30 necked up to .410.. That is an idea I have been rolling around.. a sort of 41 super super mag.

The 30-30 casehead diameter is only around .420" so would make for mighty thin necks if holding .410" bullets:veryconfu

"Sounds similar to a 40-70 sharps straight. Cases for it used to be made from 30-40 Krag cases. "

At 2.2" it would be the modern version of the 40-60 Maynard 1882, and at 1.88" would be the 40-50 Sharps straight, if straight-tapered cases. The 40-70SS case is 2.5" long, and the 336 action will only accomodate 2.55" or a touch more depending upon nose profile.

With a 336 as the basis, the rims would need to be turned down or bolt face opened unless you subsitituted a larger magazine tube. I think the 40-50SS loaded with smokeless up to 40K or so would be pretty efficient, and would allow the used of RCBS 40-300CSA and , 40-350CSA designs.

[missionary5155]

Good morning Excess
What you wrote is right... Thin walls they would be..
I have tried this with a 43 Spanish. My particilar rifle has a fat throat and shoots a .445 boolit much better. To get that loaded in the chamber I reduced the case necks on some brass to .006 and they work. I do not resize those cases.. and it is 73 grains of 2F
So it may work.. it may not.
My ultimate goal anyway is to make the barrel into a 414 Supermag. I was going to get a barrel blank and start with that. Then I saw that Jesse rebores to .410 and have been pondering since. It may work.. But if not I loose nothing but a few 30-30 cases. And if not I do a rethread / rechamber and still have a 414 Supermag rifle...

[excess650]

While .005" case necks might work in a single shot, particularly if not sizing) they'll fail quickly in a lever action. Unless you're planning on shooting some 100% density load of powder that ignites consistently with no neck tension (blackpowder), the pressures from firing smokeless and working brass in sizing dies (and crimping) will cause the thin section to seperate in short order.

There is a 40cal used in schuetzen that utilizes 38-55 cases, but the bullet is always breech-seated first as its nearly the same diameter as the case mouth.

While spec listed in the books is .421" case head diameter for the 30-30, 375 Win, etc, I think you'll find they generally measure closer to .418". True, you could use cases blown out in a .430" chamber, but they would be stretched .012" when you started, and not a good idea, IMO.

Realistically, the 30-40 Krag case or the .303 Brit are a wiser basis for your experiment. Depending upon how short they need to be trimmed to, they may require inside reaming.

[missionary5155]

I think if I need to ream to another intermediate caliber before the actual cutdown to the 414 Supermag I would go to the 303 Savage. I would then have alot less barrel to remove to get to the end result.

[Loudenboomer]

I made up a .41-30 in the late 80's. As I recall it was just before the 414 super mag came out. I called it the .41 Super Max. My plan was always to chaimber the round in a lever gun but as far as I got was a contender. I did use the 30-30 case but I did end up with a slight wasp waist. (I think the 303 savage case may work better.) 10 mm is about the practical max for bullet dia. in the 30-30 case. A long 10mm on a 30-30 case would be quite interesting as well. I just didn't try it.
I still have the converted 41 mag contender 10 inch and the custom reamer if any one is inerested for prelim. testing. Best results for me were obtained with the 220 gr. speer half jacket and 30 gr. of H-110. I did some testing and havested a nice buck with the wild cat round but the idea kind of died on the vine. It would be fun to see some one pick up where I left off.
Kevin

[excess650]

I really hadn't considered the 303 Savage as the parent case. Ammo had become pretty scarce, and brass almost unobtanium. I see that Graf & Son now carries PP brand 303 Savage brass.

[jtaylor1960]

303 Savage brass can be made from 30/40 Krag.Buffalo Arms was selling some made from Remington 30/40 brass.