.577-450 MH loads

[camerl2009]

im looking for some .577-450 MH loads i have a few
but thay all say 90gr of BP and that seems to much to me

[The Double D]

im looking for some .577-450 MH loads i have a few
but thay all say 90gr of BP and that seems to much to me

The base load for a the 577/450 Martini is 85 grains of Fg, card wad, grease cooky, two card wads and a 480 grain bullet.

If you are shooting a Martini Henry you need a bullet of a minumum .468 diameter. This can be a grease groove bullet or a bullet paper patched to .468.

If you are shooting a MK IV Martini a .470 diameter bullet may shoot better but .468 bullets will work.

You can get an RCBS .468 diameter mould from Buffalo Arms, but a better mould for less money including shipping is the .468 480 from Cast Bullet engineering. CBE also has a .470 in 480 grain. Nothing wrong with the RCBS mould the CBE is just better.

If you are shooting Gahendra or a sporting Martini you need to slug your bore. The Henry rifle bores are usually odd numbered and you will need to roll the slug between the slack jaws of a dial caliper and use the high number that repeats as your bore diameter.

If your are thinking about shooting a Nepalese Francotte, I suggest you think long an hard before you do. These rifles have some very serious defects and really should not be shot. If you absolutely must shoot it slug the the bore as there is a wide variation in bores. Then tie it to a tire and shoot it. If it doesn't fail only consider that it didn't fail this time.

[rollmyown]

Do you have a smokeless load for an english made one in good nic if BP is not available?

Also it seems a bit odd that fillers are used in BP loads and frowned upon with smokeless.

[rollmyown]

Sorry for the hijack, but I thought my questions were closely enough related not to warant another thread.

[Buckshot]

http://www.fototime.com/0FDEA25C2215222/standard.jpg

..........My favorite smokless plinking load for my 577-450 MkIV MH is the Lee 405gr slug 'as cast' (.459") and patched with 20# paper. This yields a dry over the patch OD of . 471". The charge is 38.0 grs of IMR3031. This is good for about 1250 fps and is very accurate. The patch is lubed with a vaseline-beeswax mix and is good for quite some time if stored at room temp.

...............Buckshot

[camerl2009]

the rifle im looking at is a mk 4 with VG bore
idk what size bullet i need for that

[camerl2009]

Do you have a smokeless load for an english made one in good nic if BP is not available?

Also it seems a bit odd that fillers are used in BP loads and frowned upon with smokeless.

why use fillers in bp becuse of air space if there is air space in
where the powder is and no filler the it turns into a pipe bomb its just like
if you dont seat the bullet on the powder in a muzzleloader

[skeettx]

Hello
I have an NEI 475 466 bullet mould that is perfect for the 577-450
Try that size

Plus re-read Double Ds post

Mike

[camerl2009]

Hello
I have an NEI 475 466 bullet mould that is perfect for the 577-450
Try that size

Plus re-read Double Ds post

Mike

how much did that set you back

[Marvin S]

COW lists a load for 400gr boolit and 38gr of IMR4198 for 1450 FPS. This is just for your info as I have never tried it.

[herbert buckland]

Hello
I have an NEI 475 466 bullet mould that is perfect for the 577-450
Try that size

Plus re-read Double Ds post

MikeNEI is also selling a 475-480gr mould,I have found that if you stay with a 480gr boollit and 85gr F BP you can youse the numbers on the sight with confidance,CBE is now making a 470-480gr mould that is very good ,I would slug the troat as the MK 1,11,111 have taperd troats,I am not sure about the MK1V,anothe good check is to measure the mouth of a fird cass,this will genrally get you a boolit a couple of thou over troat size wich is what works best for me,load as Double Ds post ,lube is what brings consistancy

[skeettx]

Hello
I bought the NEI mold 20 years ago, and it is a double cavity with .466 diamerter bullets coming out at 475 Grains.
I have shot some 1 to 2 inch groups with my short lever and almost as good with my long lever.

I had a set of dies made in England for this specific diameter neck and made brass from virgin Eldorado brass made in 1989. Was a pain to neck and size down the long 577 brass.

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/MVC-047S1.JPG

Yes, I smoked the cavaties
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/MVC-007S23.JPG

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/MVC-006S22.JPG
Lee dippers work


Enjoy the evening
Mike

[camerl2009]

i need at least 6" at 100 yrd im planing on going hunting with it (bison/buffalo)
in alberta yes im canadian [smilie=s:

[herbert buckland]

Any of the loads mentioned will get you better than 6 inch groups at 100yds,it depends on what pouder you want to youse(BP or smokless)you will have to check the sight picture you will need,with close to original loads I have to youse a fine sight at 100yds yousing 85gr F BP and a 470-476gr CBE boollit with a greese cookie between 2 carboard wads with this load I can get 6inch groups at 200 meters

[curator]

I use the Lee .475-400 plain base boolit cast of 1 in 30 tin/lead alloy and 25 grains of SR4759 for a low-recoiling fun load in my MkIV. A tuft of dacron over the powder keeps unburned granuals to a minimum. Great accuracy and no leading. The begining of the throat on my rifle is .478 with a gradual tapir to .470 groove diameter. 85 grains of Fg and a 480 grain slug just plain kicks to much to be fun for very long!

[The Double D]

Use the standard Nitro for black formula 40% of the black powder load with IMR-4198 or RL 7.

You must use a filler to avoid misfires. A tuft is not a filler. Two grains is not a tuft. You weigh and measures everything else that goes in the case, why not the filler.



1. 577/450 Martini Nitro for Black
2. CBE .464 500grs bullet
3. Kynock drawn solid head Case
4. 40 grs. of RL-7
5. Federal Large Rifle Magnum Primer
6. 50 cal wax paper over powder wad, 2 grains of Kapok or Dacron
7. Special notes: This is a Nitro for black powder substitution load using 47% of 85 grs. of Blackpowder in RL-7. Must use filler to avoid misfires or hang fires in this large case.

http://www.fototime.com/F7CEE514417FE0B/standard.jpg

1. 577/450 Martini Nitro for Black
2. CBE .464 500grs bullet
3. Kynock drawn solid head Case
4. 35grs. of IMR 4198
5. Federal Large Rifle Magnum Primer
6. 50 cal wax paper over powder wad, 2 grains of Kapok or Dacron
7. Special notes: This is a Nitro for black powder substitution load using 40% of 85 grs. of Blackpowder in IMR-4198. Must use filler to avoid misfires or hang fires in this large case.

http://www.fototime.com/D84344918022627/standard.jpg

1. 577/450 Martini Nitro for Black
2. CBE .464 500grs bullet
3. Kynock drawn solid head Case
4. 37grs. of 5744
5. Federal Large Rifle Magnum Primer
6. 50 cal wax paper over powder wad, 7 grains of Kapok or Dacron
7. Special notes: Must use filler to avoid misfires or hang fires in this large case.

http://www.fototime.com/14871C81C4068F7/standard.jpg

I have not tried these loads with a .468 bullet, but I would be surprise if groups weren't better.

[Beekeeper]

OK Double D what is a safe load for a good bore Gahendra using Goex black powder?


Jim

[camerl2009]

what kind of paper and how many raps
for paper patching say a .459 bullet to .471

[camerl2009]

anyone ever try round ball in there MH
i know i can paper patch a .457 RB up to what i need but a .457 RB in pure lead
is 144 gr and 3 of them is 432gr x 1.371" long if you pu them all in a line

and i want to try shot loads to im thinking if a make paper wads
and stiffen them with beeswax or candle wax it will work but idk

[herbert buckland]

1 in 22 inch twist is way to fast for round balls for this to work you would have to youse a sabott and a smaller ball ,a very hard thing to get right I would think

[camerl2009]

1 in 22 i dont care as long as it shoots a good spread at say 50 yards
its just like shooting 000 buck in a judge i know its short barrel
idn just playing with a few ideas

[Buckshot]

what kind of paper and how many raps
for paper patching say a .459 bullet to .471

...............Two wraps of 20# bond. The load I mentioned in my post is the one I used at our club's 200 meter silhouette match. They let us 'Cast lead' wacko's shoot at their silhouettes and called it "Cowboy", and this was before SASS ever got started :-) The load had no problem fetching the 200 meter ram.

http://www.fototime.com/FC2767F928DB332/standard.jpg

This is the Coyote .470 MH and it weighs just shy of 500 grs and shoots well from a MkIV and a 577-450 sporter (non military barrel). It was done as a group buy on the British & Militaria board some time back. If the barrel of your rifle is in decent shape, if you have the brass and the means to reload it, I suggest you get a correct mould for it and have a blast, whether you use black or smokless.

...............Buckshot

[The Double D]

OK Double D what is a safe load for a good bore Gahendra using Goex black powder?


Jim

First slug your bore.

Load a bore diameter 480 to 500 grain bullet over 85 grains of Fg. Insert 2 grains by weight or Dacron or Kapok over the powder. If you are using grease groove bullet put two thin card wad over the filler. PP bullets need card wad, grease cookie, two card wads under the bullet.

Make sure the grease grooves are wide grease grooves intended for black powder and and make sure the lube is balck powder lube.

Buckshot's shots picture shows another secret to loading the Martini and will work in the Gahendra, seat the bullet out so it reaches the throat.

[camerl2009]

First slug your bore.

Load a bore diameter 480 to 500 grain bullet over 85 grains of Fg. Insert 2 grains by weight or Dacron or Kapok over the powder. If you are using grease groove bullet put two thin card wad over the filler. PP bullets need card wad, grease cookie, two card wads under the bullet.

Make sure the grease grooves are wide grease grooves intended for black powder and and make sure the lube is balck powder lube.

Buckshot's shots picture shows another secret to loading the Martini and will work in the Gahendra, seat the bullet out so it reaches the throat.

how wide do the grease grooves have to be im ordering a mountain molds
480gr bullet mold

[Beekeeper]

how about FFG as that is all I was able to find here>
Live in a rather deprived area, "All Democratic"


Jim

[The Double D]

I don't know about Mountain Mold, but I do know the .468 480 Molds by RCBS and by Cast Bullet Engineering are designed for the Martini and specifically for the the Henry Rifling. The CBE mould is one of the finest molds made in the world and and even with shipping from Australia is cheaper that the RCBS.

But since you have a Gahnedra you will most likely need a smaller diameter bullet, most likely some where between .456 to .464.

Use any of the bullets designed for .45/70 and you should be just fine. CBE makes a .464 480 that is pretty nice.

Reduce the load to 75 grains for FFG.

You can order black powder in minumum 5 lb lots from various black powder suppliers.

[camerl2009]

I don't know about Mountain Mold, but I do know the .468 480 Molds by RCBS and by Cast Bullet Engineering are designed for the Martini and specifically for the the Henry Rifling. The CBE mould is one of the finest molds made in the world and and even with shipping from Australia is cheaper that the RCBS.

But since you have a Gahnedra you will most likely need a smaller diameter bullet, most likely some where between .456 to .464.

Use any of the bullets designed for .45/70 and you should be just fine. CBE makes a .464 480 that is pretty nice.

Reduce the load to 75 grains for FFG.

You can order black powder in minumum 5 lb lots from various black powder suppliers.

mountain molds you can play with the grease grooves

[Cap'n Morgan]

anyone ever try round ball in there MH
i know i can paper patch a .457 RB up to what i need but a .457 RB in pure lead
is 144 gr and 3 of them is 432gr x 1.371" long if you pu them all in a line

and i want to try shot loads to im thinking if a make paper wads
and stiffen them with beeswax or candle wax it will work but idk

I shoot some gallery loads with 8 grains of Unique behind a .471 round ball. They will easily stay within 2 inches at fifty yards. Never tried multiple balls loads, but shot loads in (long) rifled barrels will almost always produce blown patterns.

[camerl2009]

I shoot some gallery loads with 8 grains of Unique behind a .471 round ball. They will easily stay within 2 inches at fifty yards. Never tried multiple balls loads, but shot loads in (long) rifled barrels will almost always produce blown patterns.

.471 round ball where did you land your hands on them
i can not find any molds or round ball that size

[Cap'n Morgan]

.471 round ball where did you land you hands on them
i cn not find any molds or round ball that size

I cast them from a test buckshot mold I made for a group buy. A 12mm ball end mill will cut a .471 cavity, and the round balls fits nicely in the throat of my turned brass cases - here's a pic of the loaded ammo:
http://www.pictureshack.us/images/3776IMG_1150.JPG (http://www.pictureshack.us/)

[camerl2009]

I cast them from a test buckshot mold I made for a group buy. A 12mm ball end mill will cut a .471 cavity, and the round balls fits nicely in the throat of my turned brass cases - here's a pic of the loaded ammo:
http://www.pictureshack.us/images/3776IMG_1150.JPG (http://www.pictureshack.us/)

how much do you want for one :wink: pm me

[camerl2009]

what about pyrodex RS i know 85gr is way to much with this

[dromia]

Personally I don't worry too much about air space in BP, If it was good enough for WW Greener then its good enough for me.

I'll use some carded wool if I need to hold a compressed charge in a parallel side case like a .577" Snider but in a bottleneck like the 577/450 then I leave an airspace as 85 gns of Swiss No 5 won't fill to the base of the neck. I've tried it with and without carded wool and notice no difference on the target.

I've never tried it with more than 20% capacity air space cause I've never needed to and I'm sure that there is a point when too much airspace won't help the load.

If you want to take up space to fill the case then I've found nitrated blotting paper coiled inside the case to be a good way of doing that.

There is good stuff on all this over on the British Militaria web site.

[camerl2009]

how can i make my own wads i cant find a wad punch thats .472
maybe a shell to make a punch

[Buckshot]

how can i make my own wads i cant find a wad punch thats .472
maybe a shell to make a punch

............A 577-450 case might be a somewhat expensive wad punch, especially considering how long it'd last :-( If you have a buddy with a lathe they could make one up using some high carbon steel so it would be hardenable. If not, shoot me a PM.

http://www.fototime.com/84C2840C23E9FD2/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/B36421DF639D5DF/standard.jpg

Sounds like you might as well just get a 45 Colt adapter for it. Shoots surprisingly well too. Or at least it does from my MkIV.

.............Buckshot

[camerl2009]

............A 577-450 case might be a somewhat expensive wad punch, especially considering how long it'd last :-( If you have a buddy with a lathe they could make one up using some high carbon steel so it would be hardenable. If not, shoot me a PM.

http://www.fototime.com/84C2840C23E9FD2/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/B36421DF639D5DF/standard.jpg

Sounds like you might as well just get a 45 Colt adapter for it. Shoots surprisingly well too. Or at least it does from my MkIV.

.............Buckshot

where did you get the adapter i want one :mrgreen:

[Buckshot]

where did you get the adapter i want one :mrgreen:

............It came from "The Old Western Scrounger". That company is now owned by Navy Arms if I'm not mistaken.

..............Buckshot

[camerl2009]

now when you guys are using BP in the martini henry
are you using a scale or a blackpowder measure

[The Double D]

I weigh my charge on a scale and then set the powder measure to throw that weight.

[camerl2009]

I weigh my charge on a scale and then set the powder measure to throw that weight.

from what i seen that most people use a black powder measure
like the ones used for muzzleloading. i will measure it with a BP measure
and then put it on the scale and see how much it weighs

[The Double D]

from what i seen that most people use a black powder measure
like the ones used for muzzleloading. i will measure it with a BP measure
and then put it on the scale and see how much it weighs

That's what I use. I weigh out 85 grains of Fg on my scale. I pull the plunger all the way down on the measure, dump the powder in the measure, the run the plunger back up until the charge is level with the top. The I throw a few charges and weigh them on scale.

Actually its not really any different that what we normally do with a standard smokeless powder measure, which horrors, I also use with black powder.

By the way camerl2009 did I see you say some where you were in Canada? Are you bringing your Martini to the Victorian Rifleman Shoot in Alberta next year?

[camerl2009]

That's what I use. I weigh out 85 grains of Fg on my scale. I pull the plunger all the way down on the measure, dump the powder in the measure, the run the plunger back up until the charge is level with the top. The I throw a few charges and weigh them on scale.

Actually its not really any different that what we normally do with a standard smokeless powder measure, which horrors, I also use with black powder.

By the way camerl2009 did I see you say some where you were in Canada? Are you bringing your Martini to the Victorian Rifleman Shoot in Alberta next year?

idk im way down in southern ont maybe i can and knock off my bison hunt
all at the same time :mrgreen:

[Muzzlehatch]

COW lists a load for 400gr boolit and 38gr of IMR4198 for 1450 FPS. This is just for your info as I have never tried it.

I loaded up 20 rounds of this with Puff-Lon filler and it shot very well. 12-14" high at 100 yards.

[Muzzlehatch]

On Friday shot 14 rounds with 405 gr. flat nose over 34 grs. IMR4198 and 6 with 512 gr. round nose with 32 grs. the same. Shot about 2 feet to the left at 200 yards. Cheap spotting scope didn't pick up the holes until too late, thought that I had missed target entirely.

[MadHamster]

So I've loaded my first 48 rounds of 577-450 today, cases are converted 24ga Magtech (converted by Martyn Robinson), I used 80 grains of FFG Vesuvit A1( our local FFG BP) filled the capacity (a lot of space left in the case and shoulder) with loose cotton(i hope i did not pack it too tight) milk carton wad, grease cookie and another milk carton wad, followed by bullet (CBE .468 480 grain bullet).

Wish me luck gentlemen, I hope I do not blow the old lady(and some spare body parts) up tomorrow :)

[Hooker53]

Good luck Mad. Let us know how it does. I'm right behind you in a similar load.

Roy
Hooker53

[Von Gruff]

Another approach is a 1160fps soft shooting load that has proven very accurate in my rifle is 20gn Green Dot under a 465gn PP bullet (lapped Lee 457-450 FP) in converted 24g brass. This is at 50 yds
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/577-450%20Martini%20Henry/Photo0968_zps6f3e3377.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/577-450%20Martini%20Henry/Photo0968_zps6f3e3377.jpg.html)

[MadHamster]

Well, I'm alive, the rifle is fine and all spare body parts are in place :)

I can't speak for accurancy because i can't aim properly until my keratoconus gets fixed.

No primer flattening, so i can go up with the load.

On the flipside the cotton fiber filler is realy not fun when the wind blows it back at you :D

[zuke]

Another approach is a 1160fps soft shooting load that has proven very accurate in my rifle is 20gn Green Dot under a 465gn PP bullet (lapped Lee 457-450 FP) in converted 24g brass. This is at 50 yds
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/577-450%20Martini%20Henry/Photo0968_zps6f3e3377.jpg (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/577-450%20Martini%20Henry/Photo0968_zps6f3e3377.jpg.html)

I'm using 15gr of 700X with 2 square's of toilet paper to fill the case

[truckjohn]

I had mountain molds cut me a mold for it... It casts right at 0.472 I think.. I don't think they will go that big any more...

Mine is a big plain base design - casts right at 520 grains...

With a small charge of Trail boss - it runs about 850-ish FPS... I had absolutely no trouble beating the tar out of 300 yard gongs... You wouldn't think it would do it and stay stable.. but it sure did... Put it on target and it made nice round holes....

Sounded like a kid's pop-cork gun going off... but hit that plate like a car.....

Fun fun fun...

I tried a box of 475 Linebach commercial cast bullets - 300 or so grains LFN if I remember right... They keyholed so bad that you couldn't keep them within 30-FEET at 200 yards... You could literally watch them go whizzing hither and yon sideways in these crazy circular arcs... I think they were just way too short and slopey-nosed and would go sideways in that huge 8" long throat...

Thanks

[Hooker53]

Great Mad. That's a good report and will keep your load in mind in a few weeks/months ha when I get mine finished.



Well, I'm alive, the rifle is fine and all spare body parts are in place :)

I can't speak for accurancy because i can't aim properly until my keratoconus gets fixed.

No primer flattening, so i can go up with the load.

On the flipside the cotton fiber filler is realy not fun when the wind blows it back at you :D

[MadHamster]

One thing i noticed is that my grease cookie might be too thin (Vesuvit is a dry powder) i used 6mm cookie, I'll go with 8 next time.

The case throat has capacity for this and if it shows to be a problem i can use a shallower bullet seating. i used the "crimping" groove on the bullet as a guide now, but the cartridge has a shorter OAL compared to 50's production Kynoch cartridge i have at home

[Hooker53]

Success. WoW. I finished my 577/450 Mk V last night after 15 months on this refurb off and on. Shot it today. I think my shoulder will pop back in later. Lol. I used a paper patched 472-480 with 70 Gns of Jim S Gold FFg. It's shooting to the left about a foot at 50 yards or, I'm pulling off that much. Ha. I will post some photos later. I ended up with 20 enlays in this gun. The fun just keeps getting better around here. Ha
Keep Shooting Gents.

Roy
Hooker53

[Ed in North Texas]

Success. WoW. I finished my 577/450 Mk V last night after 15 months on this refurb off and on. Shot it today. I think my shoulder will pop back in later. Lol. SNIP
Roy
Hooker53

Now you know why the Brits often use a standing "bench" for shooting the large caliber rifles. I've been thinking of making a support which can be hauled to the range and placed on the bench to allow me to stand while shooting the M-H. I'm not as tolerant of heavy recoil @ 69 as I used to be.

[Hooker53]

Ed. That's a great idea and post a photo of what you come up with. I do understand what your saying about the recoil and I'm using a reduced load of 70 Gns at that. Ha. It is still a gas to shoot these big cannons though. Lol. Later my freind.

Roy
Hooker53

[Von Gruff]

I use my bog-pod for standing shots and find it very effective

[enfield]

O.K I gotta ask, what's a bog-pod and why don't I have one.

[Von Gruff]

This is the bog-pod in use. (click the vid)

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/577-450%20Martini%20Henry/th_Video0007_zps481eddc5.mp4 (http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/577-450%20Martini%20Henry/Video0007_zps481eddc5.mp4)

[enfield]

I like that, much steadier than a set of cross sticks.

[Hooker53]

Well. I had to wonder myself what a Bog-Pod was. That is cool. I think I might Haveto check into one of them. was that the 577 you were shooting in that Vid Von Gruff?

Roy
Hooker53

[rollmyown]

A good video here for those that haven't seen it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDgAEMgYgbo

[Gunor]

Good video.

What RCBS press is he using with Lee 1 1/4" dies?.

I want to buy the Lee dies, and I have a RCBS Big Max press @ 1 1/2".

Probably have to buy another press...

Geoff in Oregon

[Von Gruff]

Well. I had to wonder myself what a Bog-Pod was. That is cool. I think I might Haveto check into one of them. was that the 577 you were shooting in that Vid Von Gruff?

Roy
Hooker53
Yes but it is with a 20gn Green Dot load under the PP 460gn bullet and while it may be down a little on the BP load it shoots very accurately. I use that bog-pod on my rabbit hunting trips and shoot them to a good 150 yds with my 20 VarTarg so it is a steady platform to shoot from.

[Hooker53]

Von. I might have to try that load but not unil I Chrony my zBooli load and find out what it's doing. That wy I have a starting place for smokeless loads. I love that Jim S gold but it turned the neck of my brass green in two days. I don't think BP would not have done that. Ha.

[Newtire]

Good video.

What RCBS press is he using with Lee 1 1/4" dies?.

I want to buy the Lee dies, and I have a RCBS Big Max press @ 1 1/

Probably have to buy another press...

Geoff in OregonThe Rock Chucker II I believe.

[Newtire]

I loaded up 20 rounds of this with Puff-Lon filler and it shot very well. 12-14" high at 100 yards.I just wondered if you guys were using magnum pistol primers as I tried a 4198 load off of load data and sounded like a slow flintlock going off. SR 4759 and same primers in my mk.4 went off just fine and were real accurate with 2-sizes of foam backer rod as filler & X-ring 500 grain bullet powder coated.

[.455 Webley]

I use the Winchester large pistol primers. They say Standard or Magnum loads on the box, take that for what it's worth. But I get good ignition with 24ga re-formed and 1.5F powder.

[john.k]

If you use large rifle primers in the CBC cases ,after a couple of reloads ,the cases set back and the primers are clipped by the block......primer pocket reaming these thin cases is not wise IMHO,very little metal left.If you were really keen on LR primers ,you could solder a thin shim to the base of each case