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straightshooter1
09-07-2006, 07:05 PM
Haven't shot my Pedersoli Sharps for a few months, got it out, discovered I had nothing loaded. Planned to shoot it on my last day of vacation tomorrow.

Set up to load and discovered that my SPG lube apparently dried up and mostly disappeared from 200 480 grain boolits which had been stored at room temperature (in Florida).

No one in area had SPG. Found four tubes of Alox, did a pan lube on 50, but stopped and only loaded 20 for tommorrow along with 25 or so with the dried up SPG.

1. Will the Alox work with any degree of satisfaction?

2. I saw the thread on Lar's lube. Did not find a thread on who he/it is, what it is and either how to make it or where to buy it.

3. Had "sticker shock" at the price of SPG in bulk blocks.

What do you use/where can I get or how do I make some lube comparable to SPG? Appreciate your suggestions/leads/advice.

Bob

45 2.1
09-07-2006, 07:24 PM
I've had very good luck with Lymans "Black Powder Gold" lube with some boolit designs, but not all.

Bullshop
09-07-2006, 07:37 PM
Check the thread on NASA lube in the black powder forum.
BIC/BS

13Echo
09-07-2006, 08:57 PM
Alox will tend to gum up with black powder, but, of course, it is just fine with smokeless. A decent black powder lube is easy to make - Emmert's lube which is; Beeswax - 1750grs, White, unsalted Crisco - 1368grs, and Crisco or Wesson oil - 328grs. Melt the beeswax in a double boiler, add the crisco and oil, stir until dissolved and that's it. I substituted peanut oil for the wesson, others have used canola or castor oil. Castor oil will not go rancid. Dale53 recommends replacing half the oil with anhydrous lanolin. The lanolin helps keep the lube from drying out and it is an excellent lube and rust prevenative in its own right.

By the way roaches will eat black powder lubes as they tend to be made with various vegetable and animal oils, fats, and waxes. Since you live in Florida where the roaches are the size of Chihuahuas maybe they've been snaking on your bullets?

Jerry Liles

straightshooter1
09-07-2006, 09:07 PM
13Echo-I think it was just a case of stupidity. I don't store other things where the heat can get to them, don't know what I was thinking, if I was. I might try that recipe but thought maybe I'd try that NASA lube Bullshop has/had.

Bullshop-found the info, went to your web site, didn't see it for sale there (the NASA lube).

Bob

Bullshop
09-07-2006, 09:53 PM
13Echo-I think it was just a case of stupidity. I don't store other things where the heat can get to them, don't know what I was thinking, if I was. I might try that recipe but thought maybe I'd try that NASA lube Bullshop has/had.

Bullshop-found the info, went to your web site, didn't see it for sale there (the NASA lube).

Bob
When your ready just e-mail your order.
BIC/BS

straightshooter1
09-07-2006, 09:58 PM
Thanks, Bullshop-I'll try to call you after the rangetime tomorrow.
Will email if I can't get through.

Bob

John Boy
09-07-2006, 10:04 PM
Bob, here's 2 computer pages of black power lubes to pick from ... http://www.theopenrange.net/forum/index.php?topic=450.0

I'm a fan of soy wax based lubes

Gents, if you have a favorite lube that's not on this reference link ... post er up!

SharpsShooter
09-08-2006, 07:54 AM
Yeah, be sure to check with Dan for the NASA lube. If you want to read the 1st field test that was done with BP, here is the link.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=7612&highlight=nasa+lube


SS

44man
09-08-2006, 08:35 AM
I made the mistake of buying SPG once. Good thing I split the order with a friend. Stuff would leave the last 10" in both of our guns full of hard, dry fouling. For what it costs, you can make 50# of about any lube that will work much better.
Lar makes a great lube that I have been playing with, for so little money, it hardly pays to make any.
SPG works better if you roll it into balls and throw them at the targets.

Montanan
09-10-2006, 09:38 AM
Greetings everyone.

Yes the search for what works is the "Holy Grail of BPCR Lube" SPG is not intended for ALL types of conditions that we BPCR shooters face. Steve will admitt privately that SPG is not intended to cover the gamitt of the conditions out there.

I have been making my own lube for quite sometime now and the thing that you need to understand about home brew lube is the Smoke Points of cooking oils that you find to use.

Cooking Oil Smoke Points (http://www.goodeatsfanpage.com/CollectedInfo/OilSmokePoints.htm)

For me I'm using refined Safflower Oil which has a smoke point of 510* I purchased my beeswax from a guy in Nevada, and when I find his name and address I will post it. The refined beeswax that I purchased I got for .50 a pound sold in a minimum of 10 pound blocks. I will say that cutting this wax leaves alot to be desired but its better than paying High Dollar for beeswax. This is the same wax that the US NAVY uses to lube there big guns on board ship. My next ingreedient is very simple... Ballistal.

Heres the mix and because I don't make it to sell anymore I am posting what has worked to give me a nice wet star at the end of my 32" barrelel Remington Rolling Block 45-90. I used to call my lube Buffalo Gold and it was sold under that name thru my club called the Buffalo Classic Shooting Society. Back then I made the lube using Beeswax, Coconut Oil Bars and Ballistal. And it turned out a nice Gold color. But now its a nice creamy white.

I've had it tested in ALL weather conditions from the North Eastern area, South Eastern Area (Florida), Centeral South Area (Louisiana where it gets real humid), Southern California (HOT) and NW Washington State (Wet Cold) as well as right here in Montana (dry cold and dry heat) and yes even Alaska (COLD COLD). All I can say is that it works from all reports sent back to me from BPCR shooters. I quite selling because then it became work and wasn't any fun any longer.

Now I just call it

JB's Kodiak Snot
8 .oz refinded Bees Wax
6 .oz refined Safflower Oil found in grocerie stores
2 .oz Ballistal

http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/8516/dsc00760kf7.th.jpg (http://img224.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc00760kf7.jpg)

Your lube will turn out a creamy white and better than SPG or any of the other EXPENSIVE lubes out there that are on the market and work I feel better.

It is not Rocket Science to make good BPCR bullet lube. The price is not hard to figure out when the refined beeswax is .50 a pound, refinded Safflower Oil $6.99 for 16 .oz and Ballistal is $8.99 for 16 .oz You don't need to pay HIGH DOLLAR prices for commercial BPCR bullet lube. I know one guy who pledgerized and stole a bike chain lube name and sells his lube for $75.00 for a 2 pound minimum purchase price because he has spent countless hours developing what he calls the best bullet lube out there.

You haven't got anything to loose by using the lube reciepee given above, but you do have alot to gain in accuracy and soft fouling associated with BPCR.

Happy shooting. :coffee:

44man
09-10-2006, 11:39 AM
Thank you, you have done all of us a great service. I am sure going to make some.
You are right about SPG, It did work one warm day when it was raining cats and dogs. Course, it could have been the water in the bore!

lreed
09-11-2006, 03:21 PM
Hello, I am interested in the lube recipe''buffalo snot''is the weight given in fluid oz or regular 16 oz to the pound weight? Thanks lreed.

wills
09-11-2006, 04:38 PM
more lube
http://groups.msn.com/BPCR/bulletlubes.msnw

Montanan
09-11-2006, 07:43 PM
Hello, I am interested in the lube recipe''buffalo snot''is the weight given in fluid oz or regular 16 oz to the pound weight? Thanks lreed.


As given when your done you have 16 oz = 1 pound by weight. I just finished making 3 pounds of my Kodiak Snot lube. I really couldn't think of any other name for it because it looks just like white snot :bigsmyl2:

44man
09-12-2006, 08:06 AM
What happens with the addition of a little lanolin?

straightshooter1
09-12-2006, 08:31 AM
I bought some lube (and bullets) from Bull Shop. I will buy some smokeless lube from LAR45 when I start casting my own 30 calibers in a few months (when I finally retire:-D -another long, boring story-I told my boss I was ready to go this September 30th-he said no, he still needs me:roll: ).

If I felt adventurous, (1) where do you buy refined bee's wax and (2) do you just put in in a pot at low heat and melt it, then mix the other ingredients into it?

Lastly, how do you store it after you make it? I put the Alox I had left in a freezer bag still in the pan I used to lube the boolits.

P.S. How do you cut a block of bees wax? Sounds like you would put it in a vise and use a hacksaw to do it.

Bob

44man
09-12-2006, 10:35 AM
First, you don't need refined beeswax. Find a bee keeper and just buy some wax. You can put it in boiling water to melt, then when cool remove the cake and scrape the crud off the bottom. Two times will give you nice wax. The easiest way to cut it is with an old screwdriver and a hammer. Sort of like using an ice pick.
Always use a double boiler to melt everything. I just use an old smaller pot in a larger one.
A plastic bag is fine for storing. A good lube will not dry out and I have left it open in the container I poured it in for years.

Montanan
09-12-2006, 01:00 PM
What happens with the addition of a little lanolin?

I have never used lanolin because what I am using already works very well in all conditions that I shoot in.

I got lucky with my refined beeswax that I purchased at .50 a pound. I got very lucky indeed. It being in 10 pound sheet blocks makes cutting it even with a course hand saw wanting to pull your hair out. The best way I have found is using a old macheti (sp) and a hammer to help in the cutting process. I weigh each peice should there be any small ones up to 8 oz then I bag them up.

After I make my lube, I zip lock each pound and keep in the fridge until I either send some to friends or use.
:coffee:

44man
09-13-2006, 08:23 AM
The reason I ask about lanolin is because I use it in Felix and my other BPCR lubes and have a couple of pounds. I will have to wait until next year to mix some of each for testing. Hunting season is getting close and I just shot my bow for the first time this year. (Broke a small ballon at 50 yd's with my first shot with my 75# Browning.)
I have one more shoot Sat and all my cases are loaded and lubed with Lar's lube to test for him.
Putting the beeswax in the freezer makes it break real good. Trying to cut it is a waste of time when it breaks so easy.

montana_charlie
09-13-2006, 12:48 PM
Here is a new oil to think about...

We have all heard the stories about sperm oil. Maybe it was the best substance there ever used...or maybe we think it must have been because it's no longer available.

So, every other oil that gets tried is (essentially) an attempt to replace sperm oil.

A well-known 'lube engineer' recently posted a comment about his choice for a sperm oil replacement. It's called meadowfoam oil, and he says it is even better than sperm oil.

I won't mention the name of this lube designer, but my fellow 'Montanan' probably knows who I refer to.

BTW, Montanan, what kind of modification would be needed to turn your Kodiak Snot into a 'dipping lube' for grooveless bulets?
CM

wills
09-13-2006, 12:56 PM
Meadowfoam is an herbaceous winter annual plant native to the pacific Northwest area of the United States. The oil from the Meadowfoam plant was recognized for its outstanding oxidative stability. It is unique in that it contains over 98% fatty acids having over 20 carbon atoms. The typical major fatty acid composition is: C20:1 is 63%, C22:1 is 16%, and C22:2 is 17%. Meadowfoam oil was developed to replace sperm whale oil in the 1970’s, in an effort to protect the species. Meadowfoam oil remains liquid at room temperature despite its high molecular weight. It is one of the most stable lipids known, and Meadowfoam oil is so stable that it lends stability to other oils. It, therefore, is useful in applications where you are using less stable oils such as sweet almond, kukui nut, evening primrose, borage, and hemp. Use Meadowfoam oil in lotion bars and lip balms to extend shelf life. It makes a very moisturizing bar of soap when used as a superfatting agent. It is often used as a binder, and it may actually help hold fragrances better in bath salts, soaps and massage oils.
Meadowfoam oil is said to moisturize the skin and hair better than most oils, and it helps prevent moisture loss. In shampoos and hair care products, it helps add shine and moisture to the hair and scalp. In lipsticks and lip balms, it helps revitalize dry, cracked lips and keeps them moist longer. It provides good slip in massage oils and creams and is valued as a lubricant oil. In lipsticks and other makeup, it provides adhesion so they stay on longer. It has a high tolerance for heat and is suitable for a wide range of applications.

INCI Nomenclature: Limnanthes alba (Meadowfoam) Seed Oil
Extraction Method: Cold Expeller Pressed
Shelf Life: Stable
NAOH SAP Value: .119 (converted to ounces)
KOH SAP Value: .167 (converted to ounces)



Crafter Sizes:
2 oz., $6.00
4 oz., $10.00
8 oz., $15.00
16 oz., $25.00
32 oz., $40.00
Professional/Bulk Sizes:
64 oz., $70.00
1 gal., $112.50 *
5 gal., $450.00 *

http://www.fromnaturewithlove.com/soap/product.asp?product_id=oilmeadowfoam

felix
09-13-2006, 01:40 PM
Still the best. ... felix

Jojoba (Simmondsia chinensis)
Made up almost exclusively of liquid wax-esters, the oil of jojoba seed is unique in the plant kingdom (Wisniak 1987). The general structure of these lipids is shown in Fig. 9. Jojoba is often touted as a whale oil substitute, while in fact it has features that, in most applications, make it superior. First of all, whale oil has a significant (about 30%) amount of polyunsaturated triglycerides as part of its total lipids. These make it oxidatively less stable than jojoba, which has essentially no triglycerides, polyunsaturated or otherwise. Secondly, jojoba wax-esters are considerably longer in chainlength, ranging from C40 to C44. The bulk of sperm whale oil has chainlengths of C32 to C36. The fatty acid and alcohol compositions, making up the wax-esters of jojoba oil, are listed in Table 5. The specific combinations of alcohols and acids have been established by mass spectrometry (Spencer et al. 1977).
Jojoba oil's current use is centered on the cosmetic and personal care industry This is due primarily to its ability to lubricate without the sense of greasiness. There are about 6,000 productive hectares (15,000 acres) of jojoba in the southwest U.S. As these areas become more fruitful, and additional areas come on-line, the price of the oil is expected to decrease. As this comes about, more industrially oriented uses for this material will emerge in the market place. A number of derivatives have been made. These include sulfurized and halogenated jojoba oil, for high-pressure applications such as in automobile transmissions, and hydrogenated jojoba as a wax.

The whole jojoba seed contains about 15% protein (N x 6.25). When considering the large amount of oil in the seed (50%), the defatted meal has about 30% protein. However, the seed contains also about 11% antinutritional compounds. These are simmondsin, simmondsin 2'-ferulate, 5-desmethylsimmondsin, and didesmethylsimmondsin (Wisniak 1987) as illustrated in Fig. 10. Several methods are now under development to eliminate these materials in order to use the meal as a nutritional animal feed.

44man
09-13-2006, 02:33 PM
Oh great guys, just what I need, more shine on my scalp!

GregP42
09-13-2006, 02:56 PM
You guys are cutting your wax the hard way :) 12v power supply and nicrome wire.... same setup that is used to cut foam for RC plane wings, works wonders.

Greg

waksupi
09-13-2006, 07:53 PM
I thought ATF fluid was a replacement, for whale oil?
I used whale oil for patching ML ball. I got smouldering patches, so-so accuracy, and fouling in the barrel. So, I don't know if it was that good of a lubricant way back then, or not. I suspect it was readily available, so found it's way into various lubes.

montana_charlie
09-13-2006, 08:18 PM
I thought ATF fluid was a replacement, for whale oil?
Nope, it was developed as a replacement for the lubricants used in the transmissions of Chrylser and General Motors...(wink)...
whaling vessels.
CM

carpetman
09-13-2006, 08:22 PM
waksupi atf was a replacement for whale sperm. Once they started artificially inseminating whales with it,they became a shiftless bunch.

StarMetal
09-13-2006, 08:40 PM
No no no no, ATF are the fellows that give us all the crappy gun laws,you know Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms guys.

Joe

montana_charlie
09-13-2006, 08:59 PM
Alright...fellow clowns...back to the subject.

There is a possibility that I will find myself in possession of a new mould which casts 'grooveless' bullets. To date, the only suitable lube I have heard of is the 'dipping' version of White Lightning BPCR lube.

I have no idea of it's properties, but I imagine a substance which resembles chicken gravy. Dipping the bullet coats the surface with a thin layer which then dries into a wax-like shell.
Perhaps it's just a regular BPCR lube thinned out with a fast evaporating solvent...I dunno.

But, unless somebody can steer me toward something else which would substitue, I need to find out where to get WL. Sagebrush Products used to carry it...but no longer.

Any ideas?
CM

13Echo
09-13-2006, 10:36 PM
Montana Charlie,

HP420 on the BPCR site is the originator of White Lightning lube for grooved and groovedless bullets. Currently he is supplying the grooveless version only to selected shooters. You can find out more at this url;

http://www.bpcr.net/index-a.htm

Select forums from the left hand column go to General Discussions (first item in Forums) and select the topic "Oil Prices" Somewhere near the end he expounds on the current availability. You will need to contact him for help.

Jerry LIles

montana_charlie
09-13-2006, 10:48 PM
Montana Charlie,
select the topic "Oil Prices" Somewhere near the end he expounds on the current availability. You will need to contact him for help.
Thanks for the tip, Jerry, but I was already there. As it happens, the guy he was responding to when he posted that...was me.

It had been a couple of days since I asked him for information, and I had come to believe that he was no longer watching the thread.
So, I asked the question here...just in case.

I have just PM'd him with the first conversation in (what I hope will be) a long and informative association.
CM

lar45
09-13-2006, 11:36 PM
For cutting beeswax, I used to let it sit in the sun in a black plastic bag, then take a large french knife and cut it into about 1.5" strips. That works pretty good, but it takes awhile and starts to get hard on the hand when doing 50# at a time.

Now I keep my wax cold and put in a heavy plastic bag and use a hammer to break it up. It doesn't stack as tight, but it goes much quicker.

I'm getting down to the last of my Bob wax and some of the slabs have a dirty surface. So I've been cutting into strips, then I cut off the sides, kind of like cutting the hard rind off of a cheese. This is kind of slow going, but is definately worth my time as new beeswax is running around $3.50 a pound. I'm collecting all the dirty exterior rind strips and will melt and see if it will filter out. If it doesn't look perfectly clean, I'll probably end up with lots of candle supplies.

I've heard about guys boiling it so the dirty stuff settles to the bottom, but I'll probably have over 100# of dirty wax to filter.

Dale53
09-15-2006, 01:08 AM
I have filtered amounts of twenty pounds at a time through several thicknesses of cheese cloth. I have about a hundred pound chunk of "dirty" beeswax sitting in my shop as we speak. As soon as the weather cools off a bit, I'll have to "get with it". I intend to filter it and put it to use.

I have not yet tried this, but I intend to try cutting it with a Sawsall and a tree trimming blade. It'll work or it won't.....

Dale53

montana_charlie
09-15-2006, 02:06 PM
The biggest blocks of beeswax I have ever handled are one- and two-pounders from a local honey outlet. I leave it in the sun (turning it occasionally) until it reaches a 'soft' consistency, then slice it with one of those cheese cutters with the thin wire stretched on a metal frame.

BTW, I gave that honey outfit my name in case they ever need another place to set out hives. Their deal with landowners is 60 pounds of honey per year for permission to set whatever number of hives the area can support...usually eight, I think. I told them I would prefer to be paid in beeswax, and they said that could be worked out.

If it ever happens...I'll let you guys in on it, 'cuz I have no need for quantities like that.
CM

powderburnerr
09-15-2006, 02:55 PM
Lar ..I have some of that beeswax that has a sunburn as well When it is remelted it lightens right back up again . and cleans up fineI use a turkey broster pan and put an inch of water in it and let the wax melt then cllo and scrape the bottom or run it through a pair of panty hose .. either taks all the junk out. ....
dean

44man
09-15-2006, 05:21 PM
I have a stash of REAL sperm whale oil. I have made lube with it and never seen where it was better then a lot of stuff we use.
I made half a batch of buffalo snot and this stuff feels real good. I will next make a half batch with some lanolin added, then I can compare when my brass is empty so I can load some. Ballistol is great stuff and I have often thought about using it but never got arountooit. I have an advantage over all of you, the only safflower oil I could find is enriched with vitamin E---The secret ingredient! Breath the smoke deeply and get all the health advantages of the antioxidant! Keeps boolits and brass from corroding too. At least my barrel will never get heart trouble!
Now to add some vitamin D to keep the beeswax from getting a sunburn,,,,,HMMMM, hey guys, we are all nuts.