is it necessary to firelap?

[mikeystew]

i want to shoot cast in my 444s but im not sure if it is absoloutely necessary to firelapp it?

[docone31]

All the rifles I have firelapped performed better than before. I made a point of not overdoing it though.
It won't hurt.

[herbert buckland]

All the rifles I have firelapped performed better than before. I made a point of not overdoing it though.
It won't hurt.100% agree

[MtGun44]

Not absolutely necessary. Work with the gun, if you have problems that might
indicate a tight spot or extreme roughness, firelapping or hand lapping or even
shooting a batch of j-bullets while keeping the barrel VERY clean with copper
cleaning between each shot for 10 or 20 shots can smooth things up.

You CAN'T put any metal removed back on. Best not take it off unless you find
have a problem.

Bill

[Mk42gunner]

I agree with Bill. Don't do it unless you definately have a problem.


Robert

[Jon K]

I also agree with Bill, see how it shoots first....firelap only if needed. The gun will tell you what it needs.

Jon

[missionary5155]

Good morning
I run a very tight patch through the barrel first.. I learn alot... snags.. rough spots... tight spots..
If it is not a perfect feel to me I fire lap it. And I have never regrettted it. I keep fire lapping until it is uniform with a tight patch to my feel-

[mikeystew]

so i shot the first 20 air cooled bullets in 5, 4 shot groups of increasing powder charges today. all groups at 50m with a peepsight fell under 1.5" with the best group being the stoutest charge that was a 4 leaf clover under 1". It's also worth mentioning that these shoot to the exact POI as the hornady 265 FP's and on par accuracy wise as well. if i wasn't looking at it going in the chamber i'd think it was the same bullet performance wise.

what i'd like to know though is how much fouling is normal? when i cleaned it right after i got no visable pieces of lead but it did take a few scrubs with a brush and about 10 patches to come clean. more fouling than i get with jacketed bullets, but all in all it dosen't seem that bad? i did notice a little more powder fouling than usual, i suspect caused by reduced pressure of these bullets. im using RE-7 at 47 grains max.

what are the signs that it's leading badly? I mean how much does it take you cast shooters to get your barrels clean after shooting, and at what point do you consider the leading excessive.
Also what is the best recommended cleaner for lead removal? at the moment im using homebrew Ed's Red

[jimmeyjack]

1 moa, no leading, sounds like a winner to me!
You will get a little more fouling due to the lubricant.

[ammohead]

what are the signs that it's leading badly? I mean how much does it take you cast shooters to get your barrels clean after shooting, and at what point do you consider the leading excessive.
Also what is the best recommended cleaner for lead removal? at the moment im using homebrew Ed's Red[/QUOTE]

Mikeystew,

If you are leading badly you will see noticable lead on the patch when you clean. A grey wash at the muzzle is telltale lead but not necesarily bad fouling. If your boolit fit is good and your not trying to push the velocity envelope it is not uncommon to have no lead fouling what so ever. Just powder fouling and left over lube. I usually stop cleaning when I have no obvious drag on the patch and the bore shines. I usually stop before I get pure white patches.

If you are getting excessive lead fouling then wrapping strands from a copper "chore girl" pot scrubber around a bore brush for a tight fit will do the best job of removing heavy lead fouling. Something about the copper and lead having a thing for each other makes it work real well. I like to finish with JB bore paste. Butch's bore shine works real good to, as does Kroil. I have never used it but Ed's Red is supposed to be the bomb.

ammohead

[Bret4207]

so i shot the first 20 air cooled bullets in 5, 4 shot groups of increasing powder charges today. all groups at 50m with a peepsight fell under 1.5" with the best group being the stoutest charge that was a 4 leaf clover under 1". It's also worth mentioning that these shoot to the exact POI as the hornady 265 FP's and on par accuracy wise as well. if i wasn't looking at it going in the chamber i'd think it was the same bullet performance wise.

what i'd like to know though is how much fouling is normal? when i cleaned it right after i got no visable pieces of lead but it did take a few scrubs with a brush and about 10 patches to come clean. more fouling than i get with jacketed bullets, but all in all it dosen't seem that bad? i did notice a little more powder fouling than usual, i suspect caused by reduced pressure of these bullets. im using RE-7 at 47 grains max.

what are the signs that it's leading badly? I mean how much does it take you cast shooters to get your barrels clean after shooting, and at what point do you consider the leading excessive.
Also what is the best recommended cleaner for lead removal? at the moment im using homebrew Ed's Red

4/0 steel wool with a little solvent on a worn bore brush will remove any leading, most types of fouling and won't hurt your barrel at all. As for the "leading badly" question- When you look down the bore and can't see any signs of rifling, nothing but a ragged, lumpy mass of lead alloy...that's bad! Some rifles seem to get a slight greyish lead wash that doesn't affect accuracy. I wouldn't panic over that. Others get lead streaking and the leading builds up over time. Those you work on. Firelapping is way down the list, right before replacing the barrel. Often a change in size, lube, powder, seating depth, alloy, etc. will cure the leading. Make sure you pull a couple loaded rounds and measure the boolits to ensure the seater/crimping operation isn't swaging your boolits down. Lotta guys have found that to be a problem.

[6pt-sika]

I have 24 lever action rifles at the moment I have not fire lapped ANY of them . And as far as I'm concerned I see no reason to start .

In the semi near past I had over 4 times that many leveractions and shot cast in 3/4's of them . NONE were ever fire lapped and they all did within reason what I wanted .

[mikeystew]

Im not going to bother. i made up 30 rounds of water quenched bullets today and shot them all with increasing powder charges in 5 round groups. unusally all of them shot under one inch at 60m with a peepsight, but the POI just crept up slowly as the charges were increased. it must be a really well tuned rifle because it seemingly won't shoot a bad group no matter what i try.

And NO leading! i love it! cheap, fun, and more accurate than my hornady 265 FP loads... go figure? im hooked!

[Mk42gunner]

Im not going to bother. i made up 30 rounds of water quenched bullets today and shot them all with increasing powder charges in 5 round groups. unusally all of them shot under one inch at 60m with a peepsight, but the POI just crept up slowly as the charges were increased. it must be a really well tuned rifle because it seemingly won't shoot a bad group no matter what i try.

And NO leading! i love it! cheap, fun, and more accurate than my hornady 265 FP loads... go figure? im hooked!

Ha, you're in trouble now:bigsmyl2:. I recommend you send the rifle, molds, dies and anything else related to this rifle to me, for ...testing, that's the word I was looking for, testing:kidding:.

You obviously need a problem rifle to play with.

Seriously, [smilie=w: sounds like you are doing pretty well.

Robert

[GabbyM]

Sounds like you lapped it out enough just by running a few rounds down the pipe.

You can wear a lot of barrel metal with fire lap bullets.

[RobS]

It sounds like you have a keeper just the way she is. Future possibilities for other firearms; firelap/handlap only if needed as I see it; if it aint broke don't fix it. Shoot it and see what you have and go from there. If there are constrictions in the barrel somewhere then yes, if the barrel is really rough then lapping could help. As been said go slow with it as you can't put metal back once its gone.

[mikeystew]

I've had problem guns... but i've weeded them out all together. this gun is 30 years old and i suspect it's fired a lot of jacketed bullet in it's years. so yeah, it's a keeper!