The Flintknapping "QUEST" *FULLFILLED*

[357maximum]

Just thought I would share a few pics of my flintknapping "prowness" :?.

Just remember when you see a few steps and hinges that I am only just now working on my 3rd week at trying this. The end goal is to take a deer with one of my heads and a hickory selfbow the old man and myself made a few years back. This won't happen till 2011 season at the earliest as I still need some red dogwood shafts to be collected this winter.


An overview of the points I am actually letting others see:

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l80/357maximum/Shoot10Knap008.jpg


A close up of some glass bottle bottom and chert points:

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l80/357maximum/Shoot10Knap010.jpg

[winelover]

Nice work, 357 Maximum. You definately have too much time on you hands!

Winelover

[docone31]

Nice work!
We have a customer who comes by our shop to show us his work.
If you are like him, and I suspect you will be, he has gotten better and better. It is now four years later and his work is amazing!
If you can do what you are doing, I suspect you will be like him.
Great job.

[Dean D.]

Looking good there Mike!

[357maximum]

Nice work, 357 Maximum. You definately have too much time on you hands!

Winelover

Babore told me the same thing about the time issue. I said I wanted to kill a deer with a rock.................he said and i quote. "Well then climb a tree with a big ol rock and wait for the chance to drop it on it's head" ..........Some people just do not get certain "quests" I guess. :roll:

In all actuality there is less than 20 hours actual time represented in that overview pic.

Thanks for the comments fellas.........I just need to find more stone to continue "the quest". :lol:

[waksupi]

Nice start, Mike. You will have enough scrap to gravel a driveway when you are done!

[Marvin S]

Lookin good, how many holes have you put in your fingers?

[NoZombies]

Nice Work! I never had the patience or prowess for such things, though I find it fascinating to watch.

Thanks for posting!

[Doby45]

I will look around here in Georgia too and see if I can find you some shardy rock type stuff. I will post a pic before I send anything, but we have some grey stuff that is VERY flinty like.

[Dean D.]

One relatively easy way to tell if a rock will work for knapping is to break a piece off using a hammer or another rock. If the break is "conchoidal" (seashell shaped) and the freshly broken rock is smooth or waxy looking it should knap well. Just a quick "in a nutshell" method for field sampling.

Hope this helps.

[Potsy]

I've got a buddy who's into that pretty heavy. He's turned out some beautiful pieces. I've got a white one laying on my desk now that he made. He and some of his flintknapping buddies get together once or twice a week and chip rocks.
I went with him one night years ago, managed to lay my knuckle open pretty good.
Made me wonder how many indians had to suffer the embarrassment of having to buy arrowheads.

[legend]

i used to have a friend that was a flathead indian.he used to knapp(SP) out arrowheads from the old bromoseltzer bottle bottoms.they can still be found in old dumps...man he did great work.

nice to see your work!

[JIMinPHX]

A board member here sells flint nodules at reasonable prices. I believe that his handle was Riverwalker.

[excess650]

A board member here sells flint nodules at reasonable prices. I believe that his handle was Riverwalker.


Obviously you don't know what you just said. Luckily, 357maximum is one of the moderators, so he knows the story.

There is another member from Texas, Chaos is his screen name(I think) that has some flint or similar, knappable material.

[excess650]

357maximum,
Nice work! I do understand your quest, but mine is easier and also employs flint. While I have a 50cal Tennessee Mtn rifle and a 58cal English sporting rifle (both rocklocks) I need to get at least one of my other flinters finished for the early Va MLer season. It should be the .58 early Va style in walnut, but I may finish the .62 Jaeger first.

[JIMinPHX]

Obviously you don't know what you just said. Luckily, 357maximum is one of the moderators, so he knows the story.

There is another member from Texas, Chaos is his screen name(I think) that has some flint or similar, knappable material.


I'm certainly no geologist, so maybe I don't know what I'm talking about. There is another member here, named riverwalker76 (now that I looked it up) who does sell nodular flint. He is in Kentucky. According to him it comes from "the Haney Chert formation, or the same formation that Carter Cave flint comes from." I bought a large flat rate box full of it from him at a price that I thought was reasonable. The colors vary from white to beige to black, depending on which piece I look at. I don't know much about flint, but it seems to knapp OK for me. I'm just a beginner, so I really don't know much about knapping. The whole rocks (nodules?) that he sends are kind of rounded on the outside & sort of amoeba shaped. Once you break them open, you get the sharp jagged edges that flint is known for. I can post pictures if you like.

[JIMinPHX]

After some more digging, I cam across this thread - http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=91754

Apparently, some folks have not received what they expected from the person in question. Perhaps, I was just one of the fortunate ones. The material that I received was delivered promptly & as advertised.

[JIMinPHX]

By the way, those are some mighty nice looking arrow heads that you have there Max. Seeing the glass ones is a first for me.

[357maximum]

Rule #1 of flintknapping= Buy lots of band-aids........you are gonna need them. I have lost some blood for the cause, mostly little cuts/nicks to the hands/fingers. I did manage to imbed a quarter sized chip into my left chest muscle though....that bled pretty good. :o

I am still waiting on a box from Kentucky..........that is all I have to say on that subject at this time.

I do appreciate the thoughts/concerns/comments though. Flintknapping is fun but it does have it's dangers. The glass heads are actually pretty easy to make, just finding thick enough bottle bottums is the key. I picked mine up off the river bank while fruitlessly searching for knappable rock.

[JIMinPHX]

Is it possible to just melt down some beer bottles & cast them into an ingot that you can start knapping from? I don't know much about glass, but I do know that there is borosilicate & soda lime glass that are different. I also know that if you melt glass, then let it air cool, it gets brittle & sometimes even shatters as it cools, if it is thin enough. I can see where it might not be as easy as it sounds, but I really don't know for sure.

[45 2.1]

Babore told me the same thing about the time issue. I said I wanted to kill a deer with a rock.................he said and i quote. "Well then climb a tree with a big ol rock and wait for the chance to drop it on it's head" ..........Some people just do not get certain "quests" I guess. :roll:

Since I was there, I know it was some of that "Michigan" humor you guys like and try on others. You've gotten better in a week................ keep going and you might just kill Bambi with one of your rocks....your way. :wink:

[buck1]

:kidding:Ingot?...Heck make a mold for the arrow head! Yes I am LAZY!! LOL

[Charlie Sometimes]

Great work! Your skill is really developing quickly, I see.
I never thought of using the bottoms of old glass bottles- really makes a flashy point, don't it?
Good thing there wasn't anything like those around "back in the day" when the "Native Americans" roamed the land. :grin:

Worse come to worse, I guess you could make glass ingots from the glass, or mold the basic shape of an arrowhead and knap that, if it were thick enough. Something else to consider.

Keep up the good work- I'll be anxious to see what else you come up with!

Oh, and I don't think I'd gravel my drive with the tailings- they might eat the tires right off the truck! :lol:

[357maximum]

My debitage "tailings" go into a hole dug in the back 20 and get buried with a few current pennies to identify it as modern in case "SOMEDAY" someone digs it up. You do not want the scaps anywhere near your tires/kids/pets.....it is very sharp and nasty.

My work is going to be a bit slowed very soon as it is about time to make meat, but I will post any significant undertakings. For now I am working mostly on my "preforms" and "bi-faces" for bigger points. Material is going to be the big anchor for awhile. I do appreciate the compliments though:bigsmyl2:....it is nice when someone like the looks of stuff you make. Alot of people just do not get such pursuits. They think you are :veryconfu all nutsy cuckoo for wanting to make stone points when modern ones ar available.........oh well. :lol:

[dk17hmr]

I might be able to find you some material out in the desert it might not be all usefull but I could probably get you something.

Thought about trying to make them but then no one would believe the ones I find.

[357maximum]

I appreciate any and all efforts Doug. I googled Wyoming and Chert...it is there if you find the right spot apparently. There is even some cool purple stuff.

I understand the feeling on the real ones. I have several that I found around your old stompin grounds.....they look real close to my cruder creations. I am getting a diamond engraver for just such reasons. A simple MJT on them somewhere should keep honest people honest I spose.

[357maximum]

A full yet partial list:

• Alibates Chert (Texas)
• Armuchee Chert (Georgia)
• Attica Chert (Indiana)
• Bayport Chert (Michigan) (I have some of this...very poor, yet workable)
• Beaver Run Chert (New Jersey)
• Beeswax Chert (California)
• Bigfork Chert (Arkansas and Oklahoma)
• Black Mountains Chert (New Mexico)
• Blue Mountain Chert (Arizona)
• Boone Chert (Arkansas and Missouri)
• Brassfield Chert (Tennessee)
• Brier Creek Chert (Georgia)
• Buffalo River Chert (Tennessee)
• Burlington Chert (Illinois,
Iowa and Missouri)
• Burro Mesa Chert
(Texas)
• Calico Hills Chert
(California)
• Carter Cave Chert
(Kentucky)
• Chaumont Chert
(New York)
• Chuska Mountains
Chert (Arizona and New Mexico)
• Citronelle Chert (Mississippi)
• Cochrane Chert (Minnesota and Wisconsin)
• Cobden Chert (Illinois)
• Coshocton Chert (Ohio)
• Crescent Quarry Chert (Iowa)
• Day Creek Chert (Oklahoma)
• Delaware Chert (Ohio)
• Dongola Chert (Illinois)
• Dover Chert (Alabama, Georgia, Kentucky and Tennessee)
• Edwards Plateau Chert (Texas)
• Elkhorn Chert (Kentucky)
• Esopus Chert (New York)
• Ferdinand Chert (Indiana)
• Fernvale Chert (Arkansas)
• Fingerprint Chert (New Mexico)
• Flint Hills Chert (Kansas and Oklahoma)
• Flint Ridge Chert (Ohio)
• Florence Chert (Kansas and Oklahoma)
• Forraker Chert (Kansas, Oklahoma)
• Fort Ann Chert (New York)
• Fort Hood Chert (Texas)
• Fort Payne Chert (Alabama, Indiana,
Kentucky and Tennessee)
• Franklin Mountains Chert (New
Mexico)
• Frisco Chert (Arkansas and Oklahoma)
• Galena Chert (Illinois, Iowa, Michigan,
Wisconsin)
• Garden City Chert (Texas)
• Georgetown Chert (Texas)
• Grand Meadow Chert (Minnesota)
• Gunflint Chert (Minnesota)
• Hartville Chert (Wyoming)
• Hathaway Chert (Vermont)
• Holland Chert (Indiana)
• Hornstone (Indiana and Kentucky)
• Hoyt Chert (New York)
• Independence Chert (Indiana)
• Jefferson City Chert (Missouri)
• Kalkberg Chert (New York)
• Kanawha Chert (West Virginia)
• Kankakee Chert (Iowa)
• Kay County (Florence A) Chert (Oklahoma and Kansas)
• Keokuk Chert (Arkansas, Missouri and Oklahoma)
• Knox Chert (Tennessee)
• Kornthal Chert (Illinois)
• Ledge Ridge Chert (Minnesota)
• Lowrance Chert (Oklahoma)
• Madera Chert (Colorado and New Mexico)
• McKittrick Chert (California)
• Mill Creek Chert (Illinois)
• Moline Chert (Illinois)
• Monterey Chert (California)
• Mount Independence Chert (Vermont)
• Mount Merino Chert (New York)
• Mozarkite (Missouri)
• Munsungen Chert (Maine)
• Newala Chert (Georgia)
• New Brunsfel Chert (Texas)
• Normanskill Chert (New York)
• Norwood Chert (Michigan)
• Ocala Chert (Florida)
• Onondaga Chert (New York)
• Osage Chert (Kansas)
• Palmer Chert (Montana)
• Palomas Chert Gravel (New Mexico)
• Payson Chert (Illinois)
• Pedernal Chert
(New Mexico)
• Pedernales Chert
(Texas)
• Phosphoria Chert (Colorado,
Idaho, Montana,
Utah and Wyoming)

[357maximum]

Some pics:

http://www.susquehanna-wd.com/flintknapping_othercherts.html


and info:

http://lithicsourcing.com/index_files/State.htm

[TCLouis]

Those are some fine looking points and i am glad to see that you are going to mark them. The "Depression Glass" makes a fine point, when I made some I found they were much more difficult to get finished without breakage. Even harder to work than obsidian ( a natural glass product (likely the chemistry differences).

[Thumbcocker]

I have heard of people knapping counter top glass but I have never Knapped anything so I can't say. (on the someday list though). I read somewhere that the railroads had problems with the Indians taking the red lenses out of the signal lanterns to knap points out of. FWIW.

[Hackleback]

An easy to find knappable material is "thunder stone" also known as toilet porcelain. It s a bit on the soft side but works. Plate glass can be knapped as well.

We have tons of chert/fint around here. I could send you a flat rate box full for the price of shipping.

[dk17hmr]

Some of my finds you might like to look at.
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/dk17hmr/0817102015.jpg

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/dk17hmr/0817102116.jpg

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/dk17hmr/Bulletmolds081.jpg

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/dk17hmr/DSCN2426.jpg

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/dk17hmr/Bulletmolds065.jpg

I have a hand ax also but no picture yet.

[JesterGrin_1]

Well Thank you for the Link 357Max now I know what I am looking for. :). If I pick up any I will let you know.

[Charlie Sometimes]

Hey, sort that list of locations by state and alphabetize it!
That is a good resource! 8-)

I think the "Indians" went only as far as necessary to have have useable points.
No doubt the village flint knapper stayed busy, and didn't have time to get real particular most of the time.
From all of the arrow heads, spear points, etc. that are easily found in quantity in various locations, it seems to be apparent that they weren't worried about retrieving a lot of them.
Granted there are some that did take more care in creating (those little bird points, and the ones with notches to secure to the arrow, etc.), but over all I think they were a bit careless with their equipment.
That, or those were the last places the never left!

[357maximum]

Hey, sort that list of locations by state and alphabetize it!
That is a good resource! 8-)

I think the "Indians" went only as far as necessary to have have useable points.
No doubt the village flint knapper stayed busy, and didn't have time to get real particular most of the time.
From all of the arrow heads, spear points, etc. that are easily found in quantity in various locations, it seems to be apparent that they weren't worried about retrieving a lot of them.
Granted there are some that did take more care in creating (those little bird points, and the ones with notches to secure to the arrow, etc.), but over all I think they were a bit careless with their equipment.
That, or those were the last places the never left!


I am still adding to the list as I stumble about the net.

As far as lost points, I think your theory has some merit. I would think that back then just like now there were those that valued their possessions and those that did not. We must also remember that in many many thousands of years there was also alot of missed shots and lost projectiles.....they add up over time. When you are shooting to feed yourself you are very likely to take shots that todays hunting as a past time bowhunter would consider "unethical". :shock: I have zero doubt that if I was hungry and hunting out of pure necessity I would consider shots that would be considered plain wrong in todays world. When your belly is growling I have to believe that the ends would justify the means. Crippling an animal to death would still end up with food in your belly. :oops:

[357maximum]

Well Thank you for the Link 357Max now I know what I am looking for. :). If I pick up any I will let you know.

THANK YOU.:bigsmyl2:


An easy to find knappable material is "thunder stone" also known as toilet porcelain. It s a bit on the soft side but works. Plate glass can be knapped as well.


We have tons of chert/fint around here. I could send you a flat rate box full for the price of shipping.

I have always heard it called JOHNSTONE. :bigsmyl2: .....you have a PM, Thank You.[smilie=s:

[357maximum]

Doug.....you must spend alot of time staring at the ground. :kidding: Them are some nice points....I really like the awl.....that is a rarer find.

[northmn]

Do you make the rest of your equipment. I have made a couple of bows. Haven't gotten into the strings yet. I have books 1-3 of the Traditional Bowyers Bible whcih give some pointers as does the Primitive Archer magazines. Really haven't gotten into that far but I ahve killed deer with a longbow.

Northmn

[357maximum]

I have made 1 hickory selfbow with a whitetail sinew string (no rock headed kills with it yet). My dad has the books you listed and he helped me alot as he is a big time traditionalist. I have taken many many deer with all sorts of traditional (recurve/longbow) as well as modern (wheeled) equipment. I have yet to use a rock head but have used tied on "trade points" made out of old sawblades in the past. I grew up with a longbow in tow and have killed all that can be killed here with one. Used to pheasant hunt successfully with it even.....not sure I hev the reflexes for that anymore. I still do 80% of my rabbit hunting with a stick and string however.

Oddly one of my funnest kills was with Kohanna custom reflex deflex bow and a file sharpened zwickey head. I was shooting at a large doe with it and had a flinch/jerk/annurism :oops: at the shot..arrow hit a limb about 12 feet from me.........the shaft went over her back and took a small 3 point right in the spine. I did not even see the little buck til the arrow was in flight. :oops: TUNNEL VISION......... Alot of things can happen while the arrow )error( is in flight. :veryconfu

[Charlie Sometimes]

I would think that back then just like now there were those that valued their possessions and those that did not. We must also remember that in many many thousands of years there was also alot of missed shots and lost projectiles.....they add up over time.

If it meant having to make another or just picking up one, I'd do the latter if it were still useable after a hunt. If they were plentiful, or so easy to make (did everyone know how to do it?) then they might not be so concerned. But, those that didn't appreciate their possessions, envied someone elses, I'd bet.

I also can't believe that all of the missed shots and/or game kills were in the same locations over large expanses of time. Camping in the same areas, mass killings, or some such else would account for some of these accumulations, but not the greater percentages of sites.

More like many hundreds of years (99 hundreds), not many thousands (9). Supposedly, around 10,000 years of human habitation on this continent- that would be going from hunting mastadon, saber-tooth tigers, and such, to hunting bear, bison, elk, and deer, roughly.

There are areas that you find lots of complete heads and broken heads, then there are areas that you find only one of two occasionally. I am more apt to believe traditional burial areas are partially the reason for mass accumulations. If they believed they would need their equipment in the after life, there could be a lot of accumulation over time in the same area that way. Funeral pyres could account for the broken heads, maybe.

The singles found here and there could be hunting or warring losses, I'd think. Lots of potential reasons, that we may never know really why things are where they are.

[357maximum]

I find most of my points here in areas I would want to live if I did not have the benefits of deet, indoor plumbing, and the local grocery. On a hilltop or elevated area near a river. Until someone invents a time machine we will never really know anything beside conjecture and edumacated guesses I spose.

[45 2.1]

I find most of my points here in areas I would want to live if I did not have the benefits of deet, indoor plumbing, and the local grocery. On a hilltop or elevated area near a river. Until someone invents a time machine we will never really know anything beside conjecture and edumacated guesses I spose.

Sometimes local history helps......... I know of a couple of sites where fairly large numbers of various points have been found. One was a known indian village about 3/4 mile from where I live and the other was a known battle site between two tribes just north of a buffalo wallow that still shows in the topography.

[357maximum]

Sometimes local history helps......... I know of a couple of sites where fairly large numbers of various points have been found. One was a known indian village about 3/4 mile from where I live and the other was a known battle site between two tribes just north of a buffalo wallow that still shows in the topography.

So Bob did you kill off the last of the buffalo before or after you slayed all the women folks and built the mounds? [smilie=s:

[Johnch]

If I tryed knapping
I would probely cut myself badly
So well done


If I head to Southern Ohio this fall for a few days of Bambi hunting

I will see if I can find any Flint for you
As I hunt in the Zalaski area and I was told flint from there was widely used all around Ohio

I remember seeing a bunch of it in the one creek
But I saw it after falling in

Not going swimming again , sorry
As the was ice cold and I had a 3/4 mile walk to the road

John

[357maximum]

John

I appreciate any efforts, that Ohio stuff can be outright purdeeeeeee....thank you

I have done some bloodletting for the quest...just part of the game I guess. :lol:

Just remember that what does not kill you only makes you stronger, and neopreme was invented for a reason. :mrgreen:

[BABore]

You might want to pay a visit to the local meat cutting supply store and pick up a pair of kevlar meat cutting gloves. They're pretty thin so you can still do detail work in them.

[45 2.1]

You might want to pay a visit to the local meat cutting supply store and pick up a pair of kevlar meat cutting gloves. They're pretty thin so you can still do detail work in them.

Hee hee hee............ Michigan humor.

[45 2.1]

So Bob did you kill off the last of the buffalo before or after you slayed all the women folks and built the mounds? [smilie=s:

Ya really need to eat more often Mike. Go home for a good meal.

[Boerrancher]

Nice work on the points. I hunt with a stick bow and homemade arrows with stone points. You would be surprised at how much damage a stone broad head will make entering and exiting a whitetail. I hope you don't let your quest for the primitive arts end with knapping arrow heads. Here is some of my work, all made with traditional Paleo methods. If you have any questions feel free to drop me a line I will be glad to help in any way I can.

Best wishes from the Boer Ranch,

Joe

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk155/Boerrancher/Lithicarts/101_0001.jpg

[357maximum]

You might want to pay a visit to the local meat cutting supply store and pick up a pair of kevlar meat cutting gloves. They're pretty thin so you can still do detail work in them.

Actually that might just work. I do know that anyone that cleans alot of large fish with an electric fillet knife is wise to get a pair of them gloves. An electric fillet knife can be vicious quick on your hide.

[357maximum]

Ya really need to eat more often Mike. Go home for a good meal.

Did you happen to miss my "physique" the last time we shot together. I did not get this pear shaped build by missing meals. :mrgreen:

[357maximum]

Nice work on the points. I hunt with a stick bow and homemade arrows with stone points. You would be surprised at how much damage a stone broad head will make entering and exiting a whitetail. I hope you don't let your quest for the primitive arts end with knapping arrow heads. Here is some of my work, all made with traditional Paleo methods. If you have any questions feel free to drop me a line I will be glad to help in any way I can.

Best wishes from the Boer Ranch,

Joe

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk155/Boerrancher/Lithicarts/101_0001.jpg

Thanks, Them are some really cool beaters, one old school tech at a time, but someday I would like to do that. What are you doing the grinding with...sandstone? perhaps. We actually have material that would serve that purpose around here. Knappable material is an import deal though. I have seen (twice) what stone heads do to bambi.....it is rather impressive for a little piece of stone, I just have not done it myself...YET. Our deer have yet to develop that kevlar coating that some deer in certain areas have evolved so I should do OK I spose. I have a few things to gather from this years kills and from the woods and I should be a go for the 2011 season.

[45 2.1]

Did you happen to miss my "physique" the last time we shot together. I did not get this pear shaped build by missing meals. :mrgreen:

Your a skinny guy, unlike your pictures........:lol:

[357maximum]

So the camera really does add poundage.........hmmmmmmm thats sounds as good an excuse as any. :bigsmyl2:

[Boerrancher]

Knappable material is an import deal though. .


I don't know what area of the country you live in but I use to think the same thing. It wasn't until I got to talking to some other knappers in the state, and it wasn't long before I was finding knappable material within an hours drive. Here is a link that might help you out.

http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/forums/17/t/Knappable-Lithics-Source-Database.html

Best wishes from the Boer Ranch,

Joe

[357maximum]

Joe

I live almost dead center of the lower penninsula of Michigan. I have some Bayport from the thumb area but it knaps almost as nice as the limestone that surrounded it:sad:. The cortex actually knaps better than the "guts" of the nodules I have located. The county I live in uses the Bayport limestone around bridges/culverts and some of the nodules are loose by the time they get done placing the riprap. There is some iron rich chert (jasper) in the U.P but that is 5+ hours away. I am intending a trip up next summer though. There is also one creek down by Monroe that has some reputed chert (stony creek) but I have not made it down there yet and it is all private metro area around the River Rasin.

I find lots and lots of marble sized cherts here, but they are not big enough for a flintlock rock not to mention a point. Even our Natives imported their cherts...for a darn good reason I spose. Alot of our points that are found actually came from material from your neck of the woods.

If you can find something I have missed I would be darn glad to know of it. I am never too proud to learn. In all likelihood I will be relying on others and taking the odd rockhounding trip to keep myself in natural lithics. I will also be supplementing some of that with modern materials like glass and johnstone.

[Boerrancher]

Just a thought, have you tried heat treating that poor quality nodular chert? I have taken stuff including dolamite (sp) that you couldn't get to knapp if your life depended on it and cooked it overnight on the gravel bar under a thin layer of sand and very hot coals, and after it cooled it worked quite well. Many times it will bring out some amazing colours.

Best wishes from the Boer Ranch

Joe

[TCLouis]

Do any of you fire temper the stone before cleaving off our blanks?

I saw it flash wile I was composing and it seems Boerrancher had the same thought train

[357maximum]

Heat trating this "stuff" is on my to-do list for this weekend but I have my doubts, time will tell. It would be real nice if it works as that limestone gets used alot around here for riprap. You just have to get the nodule while it is fresh as freeze/thaw is awfully abusive to it.

[Bad Water Bill]

I think a lot of people here are missing a great opportunity. Get out and find some lapidary clubs. Check with your local colleges or go on line to find then. If you would attend one of their meetings I am sure you would get a ton of info on the type of rocks in your area or where you have to go in your area to find the same materials the natives used. Also ask what type of slabs they have available that you could use. Many lapidaries travel all over the place collecting rocks. When they get home they find that a lot of the rock will not take a polish. Most everyone has slabs that they will give away for next to nothing.

I have not been involved in the field for over 25 years so trying to give current info would be bad on my part. I do remember that there are many good types of material available in the state of Michigan.

By the way some times the natives DID make points for their pure beauty. A friend and I found a point on a trail in Oregon made from Carrey Plume agate with a plume in the dead center. No way that plume could have just happened.

[357maximum]

BWB

Michigan has tons of quartz, but most of it is too darn granular. We do have a share of rocks however, most of them are of the leaverite variety. We do have a couple that can only be found here too......my favorite it the red/black/white conglomerated quartz known here as PUDDINSTONE, basically worthless except as a yard ornament, but I like them and have alot of them to mow around.:veryconfu



Another chert list/resource for those that are interested:

http://tin.er.usgs.gov/geology/state/sgmc-lith.php?text=chert

[Charlie Sometimes]

I think a lot of people here are missing a great opportunity. Get out and find some lapidary clubs........................................
By the way some times the natives DID make points for their pure beauty. A friend and I found a point on a trail in Oregon made from Carrey Plume agate with a plume in the dead center. No way that plume could have just happened.

Good idea! A lapidary or rock collectors club could result in a lot of resources. Might even save yourself some of the trouble in looking, too.

The point might be pure beauty to us, but may have meant more to them in the way of strong medicine against a particular foe, or animal. Shot only if necessary. I have some arrow heads that I found years ago made from pink flint, and a 'hawk head from gray flint, with small quartz crystals on top of it. Fancy stuff- maybe big medicine, who knows?

[357maximum]

Them crystal laced heads were probably special for them invading lightskinned fellas.

They had a system well worth protecting.

Think about it.....they ate/SMOKED;)/fished/hunted and fornicated all day...........It took a white guy to mess a system like that up. [smilie=b:

[JIMinPHX]

We do have a couple that can only be found here too......my favorite it the red/black/white conglomerated quartz known here as PUDDINSTONE,

Northern NJ has a good supply of large pudding stones. I was told that Northern NJ was the only place that they could be found. The ones there were mostly purple, with white speckles & a few other speckles mixed in. There was no red & little or no black. Maybe there are different varieties of pudding stone? Maybe the variety varies with region? I was told that the NJ variety was deposited there by a glacier. I always wondered where the glacier scooped them up from. I also wondered if there might still be more of them left in the area where they originated.

[357maximum]

Northern NJ has a good supply of large pudding stones. I was told that Northern NJ was the only place that they could be found. The ones there were mostly purple, with white speckles & a few other speckles mixed in. There was no red & little or no black. Maybe there are different varieties of pudding stone? Maybe the variety varies with region? I was told that the NJ variety was deposited there by a glacier. I always wondered where the glacier scooped them up from. I also wondered if there might still be more of them left in the area where they originated.

I have often pondered all that too. My WAG theory is that it is ancient concrete from the ruins of the 1st/or last civilized people that let democracy be there downfall and then moved here by glacial action. ;) :groner:

We actually have some purple's in our puddins too but that is not the dominate color. White/black/Red with a few odd purplish hues tossed in would be more descriptive I spose. The base is a large granular white/whiteish quartz with the "specky speckles" being small chunks of jasper like material. To bad the speckles are not larger as them speckles look knappable. [smilie=b:

[357maximum]

Little update : I have finally been able crack the code on a real thin point. It came out a bit smaller than I wanted as I broke it installing the notches (for a cahokia point) and had to punt and make it into a stemmed point, but I bet it would still kill. This was simply an exercise in how to Jenny Craig a rock, as I was having some thick issues. It is made out of some banded obsidian a very good person supplied me with.

It is 1.879 long X 0.940 wide X .190 in thick :bigsmyl2: weighs 70 grains....so it would only be good for a very wimpy bow. [smilie=l:

Thanks to all those that have helped me out with material, I am truly very grateful.[smilie=p: I hope I can do it all justice.


http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l80/357maximum/Shoot10Knap035.jpg


http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l80/357maximum/Shoot10Knap042.jpg


http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l80/357maximum/Shoot10Knap052.jpg

[Charlie Sometimes]

Great job!
Banded obsidian- never heard of it or seen it before, I guess, but it looks really neat!
That one should be at least be good enough to split a hare! :lol: :groner:

[357maximum]

THANKS

It is obsidian with bands, but do not quote me on the name...I may have made the name up as i am unsure what variety it is. You could call it smokey obsidian too i guess. :kidding: It is opaque see through grey with blackish and whitish bands. We need a resident rock nerd to correctly name it I guess.

I will not be shooting this one as it was the first to come out thin when starting with a thick piece........simply goes in the learning box for now.

[Dean D.]

See'ns how I'm one of the resident rock nerds I would call that a lower grade "Midnight Lace" obsidian. ;) :grin: Lower grade as in lapidary material that is, not lower grade knapping material.

Very Nice job Mike! Lovely point and your getting there on the thickness!

[Johnch]

It looks sharp ( pun intended )

Is it as sharp as it looks ?

Are flint arrow heads legal to hunt deer in Mi ?

As in Ohio , if you ask ( not spelled out in the hand out ) the broad head has to be metal
But I know of at least 2 guys that use glass or flint arrow heads

John

[357maximum]

It looks sharp ( pun intended )

Is it as sharp as it looks ?

Are flint arrow heads legal to hunt deer in Mi ?

As in Ohio , if you ask ( not spelled out in the hand out ) the broad head has to be metal
But I know of at least 2 guys that use glass or flint arrow heads

John


John

It is sharp but not as sharp as it can be with one more pass of pressure flaking. I do not finish sharpen my points for now as my neices like to look at them as I make them.

It is perfectly legal to use stone here......whatever helps decimate the herd and puts $$ in the DNRE's purse. I would not be surprised if this state legalized belt fed weaponry in a season or two.:groner:

[357maximum]

Made from a goose egg sized river cobble of Black Obsidian......my largest one so far. Even kept a little of the skin on it. Figured the river worked hard to put that skin there, might just as well leave some of it.:lol:

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l80/357maximum/Shoot10Knap056.jpg


http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l80/357maximum/Shoot10Knap064.jpg

[Tom308]

I've never tried it but, a lot of people in Eastern Oklahoma hunt with a rock on a stick. I've tried steel points but, am old for that now. These days, I need to shoot a gun and make a kill where I can drive to the deer. I helps to have someone near who can gut it and throw it in the truck for me. My hunting days are about done.

[357maximum]

Tom . My Father In Law is in about the same place, luckily he has a couple of us younger guys around to help him. He has been rode hard and put away wet, thrown of buildings, tole he would never walk again twice...... but he is still getting her done.

I do the things I do now because I want some stuff off the bucket list before I too get near that time.


My hunting heads will look real similar to this Cahokia style point I made tonight. It should have a basal notch also but I do not see the purpose and it is scary with all them notches coming into the same place. That pop sound makes a point back into a rock.

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l80/357maximum/Shoot10Knap068.jpg

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l80/357maximum/Shoot10Knap069.jpg

[scrapcan]

And then you need to put some points together to use with a dart and atlatl. now hat is some fun. I am not a knappper, maybe a napper. You are definitely learning the tricks to get you there. It is fun lookin gat your progress, keep putting it up for us to see.

[357maximum]

I can barely walk and chew gum at the same time.....atlatl will be a looooooooooooooooooooooooong way off. It would make some of my obese points useable though.:veryconfu

BTW.....that notch that is missing on the butt end of my Cahokia does have a purpose. (thanks Jim)

It is there to keep the head straight while the point is actually making meat. It also makes hafting the head to the arrow easier. Gonna have to work on my thin flakes some more in order to get a good one.:violin:

[Charlie Sometimes]

I would think the atlatl would be much easier to build and master.
It came before the bow and arrow, didn't it?
Some cultures never got past it, though.

[onondaga]

I recognize your work from PaleoPlanet where my screen name is Rhymeswithwhat...

Hi. been casting much longer than knapping?

Gary

[357maximum]

I recognize your work from PaleoPlanet where my screen name is Rhymeswithwhat...

Hi. been casting much longer than knapping?

Gary









HI Gary ...my work is that obviously ugly eh. :lol:

I hope you are liking it here.....this is my #1 home on the net........SWMBO says I spend waaay too much time here in fact. :groner:

Yes...been casting much much longer than knapping. Casting is my main hobby, knapping is a quest type thing. I have used steel trade points in the past and this is just the next step I suppose. I will be using my ugly Cahokia's to take a buck or two with a hickory self bow in the 2011 season....fingers crossed. :p

If you ever get too much of that Onandaga and need some cast boolits/and or lube just let me know eh. ;) Michigan flat out sucks for knappable lithics. Have tons of hammerstones though.:groner:

see you here or there,
Michael

[357maximum]

I would think the atlatl would be much easier to build and master.
It came before the bow and arrow, didn't it?
Some cultures never got past it, though.

I already have a useable selfbow and the skills to use it..........BABY STEPS[smilie=l:

[357maximum]

Here is a pick of a point I made out a mostly black portion of the goldsheen obsidian from Dean. He has a similar lot down in the benefit auction area. I cannot get the sheen to show up in the pick, but it is there and very pretty. This is some real nice stuff....you can just barely see the burghandy color on the one ear of the point, and there is translucent areas also, none of which wanted to show up in a pic......very nice material Dean has here.
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l80/357maximum/Shoot10Knap074.jpg

This is a chunky cohokia point.........I'll call it CHUNKHOKIA and it real similar to what I am going to hunt with. I will thin it/shape it to final/shape weight after I have enough of them to make a matched batch. It should be thinner/skinnier and more triangular..which it will be in time. Calling it a really close to finished preform for now. It weighs 147 grains and it needs to get down closer to 125 likely, but I do not know that for sure yet.

[onondaga]

357Maximum, Michael Your hunting points look fine. I have been knapping 5 years but casting since 1958 when I was 8 years old. Boys Life magazine mentioned Turner Kirkland when he was starting up Dixie Gunworks and I contacted him and got a flintlock kit from him, it came with a bullet mould. Been casting since.

The Onondaga Chert is hard work to find good stuff, most of it is micro-thermo fractured, but it is my favorite and a very strong chert for hunting points that takes a super edge.

Gary

[357maximum]

Gary

Just dying to know.........so how does that Onandaga chert work on you rocklock? Is it any good at sparkin? You certainly must have tried it. :drinks:

[onondaga]

Oh Yea I tried Onondaga and used it for years, That little bit of knapping i could do as a kid. Making a gun flint does not have to be precise if you are only making them for yourself. Wish I still had the Flintlock. I still have some Caplocks but I curse the day I sold the flintlock to get an AR15. I really had more fun with the flintlock. The Onondaga Chert is a much stronger gunflint than English Gunflint and lasted many more shots before needing to be refreshed on the edge. The last couple of years with the flintlock I used Agate in the lock and it was the best thing I ever used. I could put a knife edge on Agate with a diamond disk in a Dremel and never wore out the first one---lasted over 500 shots with a few sharpenings. I videoed Ken Wallace demonstrating his gunflint knapping method and posted it in the instructional videos at PaleoPlanet if you are curious:

http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/topic/29913

http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/topic/29912

It is in2 parts, not sure if I got them in order.

Gary

[357maximum]

Thought I would do a little update.

This has been what I have been up to the last few days:

Some of the smaller ones are actually going hunting next year. The bigger ones may get made smaller as soon as I have my arrows built and see exactly what I need for point size.....for now they are pre-forms that look like points because I could not help myself.

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l80/357maximum/points010.jpg

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l80/357maximum/points008.jpg

This Cahokia is made of white burlington chert and will get lashed onto an arrow as soon as they are finished drying/straightening.

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l80/357maximum/points007.jpg

I also made it into "arrow Mart" A.K.A the edge of a bog and cut me about 6 dozen red dogwood shafts and 2 dozen wild rose shafts. The quest is looking closer to fruition all the time.

[waksupi]

Looking good, Mike. Now you need to find some goose and turkey hunters, to save wings for you.

[357maximum]

Looking good, Mike. Now you need to find some goose and turkey hunters, to save wings for you.

Thanks Ric, I actually have a pretty good collection of goose/turkey feathers that I collected for my Dad over the years. He has lost the ability to shoot a regular bow of hunting power and is buying an arrowgun so I get the feathers and a few other traditional goodies back.

I would like to thank all those that sent me the rocks where these arrowpoints used to live. A man of my current means that lives in a rock poor area sure does appreciate it alot. :wink:

[LIMPINGJ]

Does anyone know what were the materials used by the tribes in Eastern OK and TX for arrow shafts?

[onondaga]

Hunting point shape regulation in my New York State is specific for all broadheads, either steel or stone--minimum 7/8 inch wide and no barbed base or barbed blades and no serration on the blades. Maybe this is not so for your state, but most of yours wouldn't go in NY. because the bases in-curve causing a base barb or you form a blade barb with your notch style. Some of your edge work would be considered serration by a rude NYSDEC officer. My NY hunting point is a common artifact shape from NY and it fits the law here fine, It is the Genesee Point, the base is flat and parallel sided, the shoulder is swept greater than 90 degrees forming no barb on the blades. and I can tell you they are very easy to haft in a shaft notch with pine pitch glue and a basal wrap with floss or sinew. The length of the base really resists jack knifing of the point on impact way better than the side notched or base notched points like you picture. The Genesee is also much easier to knapp than the Cahokia type styles you picture. My point here is a Genesee I knapped from New York State Normanskill Chert.
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c338/rhymeswithwhat/normanskill2-1.jpg
These are simple strong killers.

Gary

[357maximum]

Gary

Michigan has very few archery regulations. As long as you pays your money and use no poison/explosives about covers it.

At one time we had a rule "no barbs" I remember reading that myself, but I can no longer find it anywhere.

BTW.....I finally got a few points mounted up on some wild rose shafts using pheasant wing feathers, pine pitch and artificial sinew.

Here is one all ready to fly:

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l80/357maximum/points012.jpg

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l80/357maximum/points011.jpg

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l80/357maximum/points014.jpg

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l80/357maximum/points013.jpg

[BABore]

Artifical Sinew

All that fine work and you shot it right in the ****. Might as well use a crossbow and carbon fiber with expandables now.:takinWiz: :p

[357maximum]

Artifical Sinew

All that fine work and you shot it right in the ****. Might as well use a crossbow and carbon fiber with expandables now.:takinWiz: :p

Yep, I agree totally, but that artificial sinew comes on a handy dandy roll and my real sinew/ deergut is not quite ready yet. :bigsmyl2: Besides for the remainder of this season I am a big cheater by carrying my fiberglass laminated kohanna custom recurve anyway......still a long stretch from any carbon arrow launched out of an arrowgun though.

In about 12 days I am really gonna cheat and use my 15 inch "pistol".[smilie=p:

[KCSO]

Mike

I just killled a couple turkeys where do you want the wings sent to?

[onondaga]

Nice deep haft, looks solid!

Gary

[357maximum]

Mike

I just killled a couple turkeys where do you want the wings sent to?

You have a pm...thank you........the ones I thought I had at Dad's got eaten by some vermin while in storage, so I much need some feathers.


Nice deep haft, looks solid!

Gary


I shot each one of my baby's into a foam 3D target a few times before I took them out hunting tonight. They held up well but were a little hard on the target when I extracted them. The only signs that they had been shot was some rub marks on the wax coating on the fake sinew. I went out hunting this afternoon perfectly confident in my equipment, but no deer wanted to volunteer as a test subject.....maybe tomorrow.

I was really amzed at how straight I coul haft them. They all passed the "spin" test with flying colors, and they all landed where I looked. I must confess to being a bit leary the first time I shot my own self nock though.....it no longer concerns me. I really like the thought of free arrows btw.

[MtGun44]

Thanks for sharing. I have watched some guys doing knapping, they were using a tiny piece
of copper rod/wire embedded in a horn or wood handle to pop off flakes. Is this 'kosher' in
knapping? I suppose the stone age folks may have had small bits of native raw copper to work
with.

That arrow looks really impressive and functional.

Bill

[onondaga]

What you have described is a pressure flake tool being used. Aboriginal style and modern style tools are popular in the hobby. There are artifacts indicating that copper tools were used in NE America by our natives over 2000 years ago. The copper is more effective than antler in some ways, both are popular and so is bone and even soft iron and aluminum. I have a pressure flake tool that uses common aluminum gutter spikes, but I generally use copper and antler for pressure work.

[357maximum]

The people around Michigan have been using copper for a very very long time, of course it was pretty easy to get here once upon a day. When they commercialized the mines in Michigan's U.P they actually carted many horsedrawn trailers worth of native made stone mining tools out of the mines. Alot of them were made out of Onandaga chert from Ontario and NewYork. The natives had some pretty good trade routes which is very impressive to me. Imagine hauling a bunch of rock on your person through several states......impressive indeed.

Personally I use hammerstones (rivercobbles) , antler billets and phenolic (garlite) billets for my percussion flaking work. I do not like solid copper or copper capped boppers for percussion work.

I do use copper tipped tools, antler, and steel nails for my pressure flaking. Even Ishi used steel nails so why not?....they take alot less upkeep/refreshing than the other tools and they work. I can use just rock and antler if I choose to, as I have done it successfully, but I got tired of the constant upkeep to the tools............SO I CHEAT:kidding: The modern tools are a lot more durable, and seeing as I do not intend to go hunting in a loin cloth and 100% off the grid anytime soon....I say why not use the durable tools?

[357maximum]

4 Hunting points and 1 rough and unsharpened squirrel/practice arrow all flight tested and ready to go to the woods. The wind was wrong tonight or they would be there right now. It is really amazing how well these natural arrows shoot. All my finished arrows in the pic are within 23 grains of one another and the heads are within 8 grains. I am using the rear notch to make the broadheads weigh the same. ;)

I have switched to red dogwood shafts over the wild rose as they are naturally straighter, more abundant, and one heck of alot nicer/easier to harvest. Climbing through multiflora rose with pruning shears is not real pleasant.....imagine that.[smilie=b:

The dogwood also has a more pronounced weight forward taper that really helps with stability in flight. You do not even need a point up front to accurately shoot them in fact. Bare naked weight forward field point arrows look weird, but shoot well.

the little yellow flakes are what used to be my archery target....these points are super destructive on foam targets btw. :lol:

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l80/357maximum/points015.jpg

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l80/357maximum/points016.jpg

[Charlie Sometimes]

Haven't had time to comment- got a job now!
Been working about a month now.
Looks like you are really gaining skill and efficiency fast.
I have yet to even start with everything else I have going.
You keep me inspired! :smile:
Keep up the progress reports.

[Dean D.]

Lookin great there Mike!

[357maximum]

Thanks for the comments guys. I have not had much time to knap lately with hunting season and work, but I have made a few.


These blue points were made out of Kerr-stone (old blue canning jar bottom). I was doing some excavating for a guy and picked up 1/2 of the bottom of an old jar wiped it off and put it in my pocket. The guy I was working for give me that are you crazy look and asked me what use could there possible be for an old chunk of glass like that. I smiled and said......I will show you tomorrow. I went home that night and even though I was tired from bouncing around on a trac-hoe and a dozer all day I knocked out 2 points from that piece of "garbage".

He was shocked and awed when I showed him what I had made from his trash the next day.

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l80/357maximum/points027.jpg

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l80/357maximum/points029-1.jpg


This pic is just to show where my arrowheads used to reside. I was moving some stones up into my loft/workshop above the utility room when this chert spall fell and hit the floor. It knocked off a near perfect flake to make a point out of so I whacked the point out to please the stone God's.

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l80/357maximum/points034.jpg

[home in oz]

Found any flint cores in your travels?

Found some on the farm.

No projectile points as it is 2/3 tall grass prairie, and 1/3 thick brush and trees

[357maximum]

I have found very very little chert in any flavor here. I have found 1 nice bifacial preform "relic" that was worked loong ago. I will not do anything with it though as it is means more to me as it is. It goes real well with my relic heads that I have collected over the years. The three pieces of green Michigan chert I have found were too frost crazed to do anything with. The bayport nodules I got from the thumb region knap about like concrete and I am saving them for more experience times and possible heat treating sometime in the future. Michigan sucks as far as chert/flint and I have resigned myself to the fact that my stone will be imported for the most part either as a road trip or via the USPS. It simply is what it is.

[Charlie Sometimes]

Man , those Kerr glass points look nice. I can imagine the looks you get. I've got a few like that before for various things. It just shocks people to think that you can make things from other discard items.
The "stone gods" have smiled upon you! They must understand your quandry of no natural quarry! :lol: :razz:

[home in oz]

You are doing a hell of a good job!

On of the many hobbies I plan to pursue next year when I completely retire....

Well, for the second time.

[onondaga]

Michigan does not suck for knappable rock. The famous Onondaga Escarpment starts in Detroit and goes due East, it crosses the Niagara River at the Peace Bridge in Buffalo, and passes right through my back yard and keeps heading East till just before Albany. then it turns South and goes into PA and peters out there. Onondaga Chert is my favorite, I have posted on PaleoPlanet in the Lithic Resources Database on finding Onondaga in Western New York on the same Escarpment. Read my post there and Give my method a try. You WILL find Onondaga east of Detroit!

http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/topic/14489

Gary

[357maximum]

Gary

You do realize how much Michigan is east of Detroilet right? :bigsmyl2: I actually took the loong drive down to the Detroit/Monroe area to check out the river/creek beds......I came up empty except for some glass. I am currently trying to snooker/convince SWMBO into circumnavigating Lake Eerie and Ontario as a vacation for next summer. Wish me luck eh.

Got to work an hammered this one out tonight:

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l80/357maximum/points035.jpg

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l80/357maximum/points036.jpg

Just thought I would try a different type for a change. Yes...I know my camera was set with the wrong date.....DOH :lol:

[Johnch]

I am currently trying to snooker/convince SWMBO into circumnavigating Lake Eerie and Ontario as a vacation for next summer. Wish me luck eh.


If you do

I live on your way , just outside Toledo
Might be a chance to say hello

John

[357maximum]

If you do

I live on your way , just outside Toledo
Might be a chance to say hello

John

Sounds good if it happens according to MY plan as I have a few stops I would like to check out near you. I have met alot of folks from this site and have yet to be dissapointed by the cast and I always look forward to a meet and greet. SWMBO is thinking another thought and I am currently dissecting that route for lithic resources also. We shall see how it all pans out.

[onondaga]

Yes, I'm up to snuff on the geography. Use Google Earth with the tip and look East like I discuss in my post. You will see where the creeks cut the Scarp and reveal the Onondaga. Big machinery cut earth construction sights and road cuts are good too. I have even gotten really nice Onondaga right in the ghetto slumburb city of Buff***** on Route 5, Main St., when the utility companies are digging holes. Our Route 5 runs the crest of the escarpment and topsoil is the thinnest on the crest of the Escarpment; so, the Onondaga Chert is only a meter down in the Limestone.
The Northern shore near you is a rock-shop where the creeks cut the scarp and drop into the lake. I am not saying it is an easy game but that is where the Onondaga is, that is the Onondaga escarpment over by you.. Sure there is a lot of limestone. About one meter down from the top of the limestone is the layer of Onondaga that the creeks cut through and there are natural outcrops where the layers of limestone are visible too. Look for roads with "flint" in their names too, that is a dead giveaway to an outcrop or break in the scarp. The largest graveyard in Buffalo is on the scarp, guess what area of it I visit? They do a lot of digging there.
I really watch for crews digging holes on Route 5 and try to check their rock-piles before they fill their holes back up and have gotten some amazing chert that way. Ask the crew workers if they run into flint and where it is. Tell them you make arrowheads from flint--they will literally tell you where it is because they remember it well as it is the worst stuff to dig through and damages their equipment.

Detroilet=Buff***** for Onondaga!

[home in oz]

Are you emulating early time periods, or just chipping out points?

[357maximum]

Are you emulating early time periods, or just chipping out points?

Nope, just making points that I deem worthy of passing through a buck. I am mainly making side notched cahokia and ishi types because they lash on to my arrows so well. After practicing with them in a foam archery target I have full faith in them staying on and driving straight with no chance of them jacknifing on their way through. I make the occassional "other" point also if the rock tells me that it wants to be something other than my normal point type.

[home in oz]

cahokia and ishi types

Are they the archaic woodland type-I think 600-900 AD?

[357maximum]

Google/Wikipedia will tell you all about them.

See "ISHI" who was alive in the 1860's into the early 1900's right here in the good ol U.S.A. He used glass and steel nails as he preferred the "new" "available" materials.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishi


See also "Cahokia Culture".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cahokia


I am neither a historian or an archeologist. I just like the point types as they work. My points are actually a semi hybrid of the two. They drive straight, they do not jackknife, and they are easy to lash on solidly...............for now that is all the knowledge I need to posess. I am not the man to give a history lesson on either subject however.

Most of my hunting points could be called a CHUNK O' KIA :lol: As I make mine a bit thicker/sturdier than the ones they unearthed in Illinois.



http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l80/357maximum/points015.jpg

[Reverend Recoil]

Foundry slag is 98% fused silica and fractures like glass. Can it be worked as obsidian?

[onondaga]

slag glass is popular with knappers. Bubbles in the slag glass can stop or re-direct flakes but this is not usually a big problem. A rock saw or brick saw with a diamond blade and water bath can cut the slag into slabs that are easier to knapp instead of big chunks.

[357maximum]

Seeing as how my stone points and dogwood arrows are useless without a good bow I made a new hickory stick just for the occassion of this "QUEST". The one I had was less than perfect as far as fitting me. I had the material and the desire to make a new one..........so I did. This is my 3rd selfbow, but the 1st one to be made with only myself touching the drawknife and tools. I am most proud of this little flat stick and cannot wait to take her out come october.

She is 69 inches long and pulls 58lbs at 27inches. She is not 100% finished yet but she sure does sling an arrow well and she is accurate for me. She was made from a hickory tree that was cut down for a highway expansion in the mid 90's. My Dad rescued a bunch of wood from the chipper pile back then and I am sure glad he did.

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l80/357maximum/selfbow017.jpg

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l80/357maximum/selfbow004.jpg

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l80/357maximum/selfbow032.jpg

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l80/357maximum/selfbow028.jpg

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l80/357maximum/selfbow023.jpg

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l80/357maximum/selfbow026.jpg

[JesterGrin_1]

I am sorry but that Bow is just too darn pretty for you so you need to give it away lol.

Great Job. But darn it looks COLD lol.

[1911sw45]

Great job on e the bow, can't wait to see more of this quest as it goes on. Love the snow in the back ground. I miss the winters in MI.

Adam

[357maximum]

Glad you like it, thanks.

COLD??? that is a matter of opinion I guess. It was cold enough to drive the camera lady back into the house and cold enough to activate the bladder alarm the second you step outside. :confused: why does that happen anyway?? :?

+8 degrees above zero...........at least there is a + in that number. Factor in the wind and that + sign comes up missing though.

It was a fun bow to build and there is 3 more in different stages of completion cooking in the lightbulb box as I type this.

[badgeredd]

Glad you like it, thanks.

COLD??? that is a matter of opinion I guess. It was cold enough to drive the camera lady back into the house and cold enough to activate the bladder alarm the second you step outside. :confused: why does that happen anyway?? :?

+8 degrees above zero...........at least there is a + in that number. Factor in the wind and that + sign comes up missing though.

It was a fun bow to build and there is 3 more in different stages of completion cooking in the lightbulb box as I type this.

Nicely done Buddy. I see what you mean about the natural camo on the front side. I thiink you have something to be proud of there. Note the highlighted area in the quoted text. OCD ring a bell? :kidding:

Edd

[357maximum]

Edd

You say OCD like it is a bad thing. :roll::Fire::mrgreen:

The natural camo on the BACK of the bow is the cambium layer that remained in the low spots in the wood. You can take it off....I just chose to keep it. Hopefully come October a nice buck will have his last gaze upon that camo. :LOL:

[357maximum]

Great job on e the bow, can't wait to see more of this quest as it goes on. Love the snow in the back ground. I miss the winters in MI.

Adam


Thanks, I will continue with updates as they appear. My bowyer buddy insists that I try killing a turkey this spring with my selfbuilt primitive equipment...........maybe I will have a story or some frustration over that. :roll:


Now for an important question....


I am sorry but I have to ask...... Is your avatar a condition of not knowing whether you are a Northerner or a Southerner? :kidding::mrgreen:

[1911sw45]

Yes Sir that's Right, They call it a dang yank down here. No I was shaving and my daughter thought it would be funny if I shaved it like that and go to town. Should have seen the looks I got for that. But it was all fun.

Adam

[JIMinPHX]

What kind of velocity do you get from that bow?

[357maximum]

I have not ran this one over a chrony yet, but I would guess 150 to 160 FPS going by other similar bows I have chronied. That is with a 10 grains per pound of draw arrow. I will put a few over the screen early next week. I have to wait for the final coat of helmsman to dry completely first.

[NoZombies]

That's a nice looking stick bow you got there :)

[TCLouis]

Any good links to a " Glass " knapping site. I have some "Depression Glass" bottle bottoms I would like to shape for decorative purposes.

NOT flint, GLASS.

[onondaga]

http://www.google.com/search?q=knapping+glass&tbo=p&tbs=vid%3A1&source=vgc&hl=en&aq=f

There is tons of videos on this.

Gary

[357maximum]

What kind of velocity do you get from that bow?

Averaged 156 FPS with a 520 grain arrow. Remember these bows are not meant to be, nor can they be Ferraris, they are more like a dependable old pickup trucks. My ex$pen$ive custom wood/glass laminated recurve will do about 180 fps with the same arrow.

[357maximum]

Thursday afternoon I got my first bloody stone point with the new bow. :bigsmyl2:

It was 50+ degrees so I took the new bow and a few arrows for a walk in the wet slushy woods. While walking I saw some weird movement ahead of me and started the "stalk".[smilie=l:

I got me some ignorant little possom with a little bird point at about 6 yards. He and his brother were eating in a set of discarded deer ribs and I got them both. One with the stone point and one with an empty 38spcl case "blunt". I case skinned them and put their stinky hides in my pouch. I left their corpses to feed the rest of the possum clan. I am gonna tan their hides and make them into bowstring silencers. I think that this bow should have string silencers that came from it's first adventure. :bigsmyl2: Both hides are on muskrat stretchers as I type this. :bigsmyl2: ...they were real small opossums, but they made my day. :bigsmyl2:

Both arrows survived to do it again. Sorry about the lack of pics but I was all alone. The little cahokia point sure did a number on the possom....I was so close I did not even come to full draw and kinda shot them "from the hip" ........quite the challenging stalk eh. [smilie=l: Apparently possoms in a ribcage rate right up there with fish in a barrel. [smilie=l:

[45 2.1]

Averaged 156 FPS with a 520 grain arrow. Remember these bows are not meant to be, nor can they be Ferraris, they are more like a dependable old pickup trucks. My ex$pen$ive custom wood/glass laminated recurve will do about 180 fps with the same arrow.

See here: http://ottoman-turkish-bows.com/

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

Should I tell you Glass Butte in E. Oregon is about two hours from my house?

Nahhhhh...


Rich

[357maximum]

See here: http://ottoman-turkish-bows.com/

A laminated horn bow is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay different than anything you can make only from a stick there Bob. I am not really interested in any bow that requires two people to string it. :kidding:

[357maximum]

Should I tell you Glass Butte in E. Oregon is about two hours from my house?

Nahhhhh...


Rich

If I ever get to such a place I will definately be testing the suspension on my truck. :groner: If you ever feel ambitious and charitable let me know eh. ;)

[waksupi]

A laminated horn bow is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay different than anything you can make only from a stick there Bob. I am not really interested in any bow that requires two people to string it. :kidding:
I know a couple people who have made horn bows. Except for the extreme Turkish flight bows, they weren't all the difficult to string, using a stringer.

[45 2.1]

A laminated horn bow is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay different than anything you can make only from a stick there Bob. I am not really interested in any bow that requires two people to string it. :kidding:

I guess they were smarter and more versital 400 years ago Ehhh?
Can't never did anything.... get with it Mike....... and quit whinning.

[357maximum]

I guess they were smarter and more versital 400 years ago Ehhh?
Can't never did anything.... get with it Mike....... and quit whinning.



How does one get "can't" out of "I do not want to" ? :killingpc


Sometimes simple people like things simple just for the utter simplicity of it. :holysheep

I do not want to play the laminated game...........PURE AND SIMPLE.:groner: If I did I would use the high $$ fiberglass recurve I already own. If I was worried about perfomance and speed I would use my compound. :lol:

Whining? WT? If you want a hornbow..................go build it............I don't and I won't. I could care less how VERSATILE that makes me. [smilie=b:

[45 2.1]

How does one get "can't" out of "I do not want to" ? :killingpc


Sometimes simple people like things simple just for the utter simplicity of it. :holysheep

I do not want to play the laminated game...........PURE AND SIMPLE.:groner: If I did I would use the high $$ fiberglass recurve I already own. If I was worried about perfomance and speed I would use my compound. :lol:

Whining? WT? If you want a hornbow..................go build it............I don't and I won't. I could care less how VERSATILE that makes me. [smilie=b:

Too Much Caffiene there guy, but Hey.... the next time you ask a question your going to get an unusual answer...........................
I won't even list any sites where the indians used sinew and hide glue to back bows with. With all that said I believe I like Bruce's suggestion about you jumping out of a tree with an arrow........................... Now that would be simple.......

[BABore]

That was jumping out of a tree with a rock, Bob. It would save Mike all the sleepless nights and Mountain Dew chipping flint.:bigsmyl2:

[waksupi]

I've made probably 10 sinew backed bows over the years. Not a hard job, just messy.

[45 2.1]

That was jumping out of a tree with a rock, Bob. It would save Mike all the sleepless nights and Mountain Dew chipping flint.:bigsmyl2:

Yep, you did.... I think someone else did the arrow/spear version. Yep, a rock would be much simpler.........................

[357maximum]

:mrgreen::drinks::Fire::roll:

[357maximum]

Been awhile since I posted any new eye candy.....so here is some I am proud of:

television screen glass:
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l80/357maximum/glasspoints015.jpg

television screen glass:
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l80/357maximum/glasspoints010.jpg

Glazed Glass from the bottom of a broken vase:
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l80/357maximum/glasspoints013.jpg

Jagermeister glass...the non-alchoholic part is the best in my opinion...the stuff is like drinking licorice:
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l80/357maximum/glasspoints011.jpg

Assorted points made from many different materials:
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l80/357maximum/glasspoints009.jpg

Assorted chert/novaculite/agate hunting/practice points:
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l80/357maximum/glasspoints008.jpg

Assorted materials the large triangular preform is the back of a toilet tank "johnstone" A.K.A "ThunderChert" will be made into a point later on.
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l80/357maximum/glasspoints006.jpg

Yours truly sitting under a limestone formation in Michigan's Thumb area while looking for raw materials to knap into points.
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l80/357maximum/glasspoints001.jpg





As far as the stoneage kill on a whitetail quest....I missed a doe last weekend by a micrometer or two. Shot just under her at 20 yards. :x Right now it is too hot to kill one and get it cut up with my work schedule so I am not hunting today.

[oneokie]

Very nice.

Have you done any Folsom or Clovis style points?

[357maximum]

Thanks Nolan.........

The only fluted type points I have made thus far will not be picured or shown in the light of day. :groner: "I need alot more practice with fluting" would be one HUGE understatement.

[1911sw45]

Looks like your really getting the hang of it. Great job!

Adam

[stealthshooter]

Awesome work!! Would you be able to use Goose feathers?

[357maximum]

Thanks fellas and YES I can use the primary wing feathers from geese as fletching on my hunting arrows.

[stealthshooter]

Thanks fellas and YES I can use the primary wing feathers from geese as fletching on my hunting arrows.


I'll see what I can gather for ya this season.

[357maximum]

I'll see what I can gather for ya this season.

I would be full of gratitude and cover the costs associated with that. THANK YOU

[stealthshooter]

I'll cover shipping no problem.

[357maximum]

I found a small piece of lime depression glass from a candy dish or plate at work Friday and saved it. I made this docile looking point out of it tonight.

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l80/357maximum/glasspoints023.jpg

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l80/357maximum/glasspoints021.jpg


The same Depression glass point under blacklight:

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l80/357maximum/glasspoints027.jpg

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l80/357maximum/glasspoints028.jpg

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l80/357maximum/glasspoints031.jpg


I WILL be finding some more of this lime green uranium glass and bashing it into points. :bigsmyl2: recycling antiques from dust collectors into something cool.....sounds like fun to me. [smilie=l:

[geargnasher]

"ThunderChert". I actually fell out of my chair when I read that! Very nice work there. I wonder what you could do with some IBC rootbeer chert? :kidding:

Gear

[357maximum]

Just glad it was a chair you fell off of. :lol:


Thanks for the compliment.


IBC ???? please fill me in as I missed something ...

me not real attentive[smilie=1:

[geargnasher]

You may not have it where you live, but I.B.C. is a brand of rootbeer soda that I believe still comes in dark amber glass bottles. We have some really pretty rootbeer chert (REAL chert!) up around Llano and Mason just north of me in the Texas Hill Country. I'll keep my eyes peeled for some rocks for you when I'm out-and-about, our riverbeds are loaded with spalls and chunks of everything you could imagine except for agate and obsidian, it just never occured to me to take any of them home in the past since I don't knapp and didn't know anyone who did.

Gear

[357maximum]

Gear

That Texas rootbeer chert is might pretty stuff and all Texas cherts seem to be knappable. If I lived anywhere near Texas I would need new springs under my truck as I would be breaking the current ones with a smile on my face. :shock: I like real chert rock for my hunting points. The glass is more of a play/practice thing.

I have made many points from the bottoms of brown bottles/jugs...I'll see if I can't wrangle up a pic or two of some of the ones that I have given away. I really like the old Clorox bleach bottles but they are hard to find. I find most of mine along the rivers while fishing. For some reason the rest of the jug gets destroyed but the bottom stays mostly intact. 40 ounce beer bottles work too but I am not a beer drinker. I have quite a few real thick brown glass bottoms from some old farm chemical jugs waiting for some attention as work/hunting allow. I will picture the points when I get to em.

Michael

[btroj]

I have to ask- do you buy Bandaids in bulk?

Nice work, I have to respect anyone who can do work like that. Not something you just learn overnite.

[waksupi]

I remember shooting a lot of old cobalt blue milk of magnesia bottles at the local dump when I was young. I wished I would have had them once I started chipping rocks.

[357maximum]

btroj- Thanks .....I am now 100% sure that not every Indian made his own hunting points.

And yes I have spilled some of my own blood for the cause. :lol: I keep a box of bandaids in my knapping kit.............and I use them from time to time. My worst incident was while I was spalling/flaking some flakes from a large chunk of Kentucky chert. When I hit the stone with my billet (antler hammer) a silver dollar sized flake imbedded itself in my chest muscle...it bled and it hurt. :sad:


Ric....you made my head hurt with that statement as I have done the same. The wooded dump where I used to do it is now a 25 acre recreational pond or I would have been there playing archeologist and diggin through the remnants of my youthful ignorance. :redneck:

[357maximum]

Finally got a few minutes to hunt this week and I Got it done this afternoon........still excited....too excited to sleep in fact what a rush. She came right to me and I shot her at about 10yards away from my 12 foot high perch. The arrow landed a bit farther forward than I wanted for the angle of the shot, but it worked. The arrow got spun when she broke it and the angle in the pictures is not the angle I shot her at. I tore one lung up vertically and she was full of fluid when I cut the daphragm.

At the shot she tore out and ran about 60 yards, stopped, stumbled, and started to run again.....crash she went down in a throw of grass, weeds, and small cottonwoods. She must have broke the arrow when she crashed because I could see it sticking out of her while she ran. I was a bit concerned if I penetrated her enough, but those concerns took about 0.9 seconds to dissappear. The arrow went in just over center height of the shoulder breaking a rib. The stone arrowhead knapped by yours truly ended up lodged high in the brisket surrounded by broken bone and torn cartilage. The arrowhead was made of burlington chert, the arrow was a red osier dogwood shoot, and the bow was a hickory mollegabet style self/long bow drawing 65 pounds that I made this spring. OOOGA BOOGA

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l80/357maximum/stonekill012.jpg
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l80/357maximum/stonekill001.jpg
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l80/357maximum/stonekill002.jpg
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l80/357maximum/stonekill003.jpg
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l80/357maximum/stonekill005.jpg
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l80/357maximum/stonekill007.jpg
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l80/357maximum/stonekill008.jpg

Thats all the pics I got tonight as the camera lady was at work. I might clutter up the scene with my ugly mug if i can get a camera operator tomorrow. I had fun and I would like to thank all those that contributed supplys/encouragement for my primitive quest.

THANK YOU,
Michael

[greywuuf]

OUTFREAKINGSTANDING!
Let me be the first to congratulate you. Awed and envious.

Homeland defense begins at home. I'm not there. Sent from a mobile device using a commercial app.

[Jetwrench]

very cool, very very cool. that had to feel good. Jetwrench

[Linstrum]

To pull that off with a firearm you would have had to make your own gun, make your own bullet mold, mined the galena from a hole in the ground to get the lead for the boolit, saved your urine for a year to get enough saltpeter to make the powder, found some sulfur in Texas or Louisiana, and saved some charcoal from a campfire to complete the powder, and - - - . Well you get the picture. I like your way better.

"So, I'll eat it myself!" said the Little Red Hen.
Darn straight! And I'll bet you enjoy it, too!

rl 1010

[Boerrancher]

Way to go Michael. Now that you know it can be done, are you hooked yet? Thursday was my third this year for a self bow, self arrows, and stone points. I am so glad you got one. It is pretty impressive what those stone points will do to one. I know that even the best modern point won't do half the amount of damage that a typical stone point will do. See I told you that point wouldn't Jack knife when it hit! Man this is great. I have been waiting to read those words since you started. Great job all around. I think I am almost as excited for you as you are for doing it. Now go over to the Bow Hunting thread on the Planet and post it there as well so I can pat you on the back once more.

Best wishes,

Joe

[kenjuudo]

The smile will only last a week or so....then ya have to do it again. And your old lady will roll her eyes when you start a frame of those discusting bloody broken arrows.

jim

[excess650]

[QUOTE=greywuuf;1461460]OUTFREAKINGSTANDING!QUOTE]

+2

Now you'll have to change your screen name to stick-n-string!:bigsmyl2:

[winelover]

Congrats! Doesn't get any better than that!!

Winelover

[Mumblypeg]

That is outstanding!!! Please tell me that arrow was fletched with one of the feathers I sent you??? YOU DA MAN!!!

[357maximum]

Wow, thanks for all the way-to-go's fellas. :bigsmyl2:

It truly felt good, still does in fact. [smilie=p: Just like anything new I am a bit skeptical till it works well. I still remember my first castboolit kill and this has a similar feel. I have killed quite a few deer since I launched my first homecast boolit and the feeling still remains everytime I pull the trigger knowing full well my boolit will work just as well or better than anything that comes in a box from a store. I am starting to feel the same way about my stone heads and all my other oogabooga gear. I have killed quite a few deer with a steel point and a modern recurve and that always felt good......this just feels a wee little bit better......make that a whole lot better.:bigsmyl2: I do have this feeling that now that I have unleashed my inner caveman I will never be able to put him away. Kinda like how I haven't fired a j-word at a deer since I popped my first one with a boolit made in my own ammo factory.

Joe...I am hooked...made some Pine pitch glue in fact. I am even experimenting with the recipe. That arrowhead was glued on with pinepitch, beeswax and a touch of lard and wrapped with real sinew. I am still messing with the recipe a bit though.[smilie=l: I have a few knives made but none are ready for a public unvailing yet however. I am not the type to simply put one tool down in favor of another, but I do like new tools in the box. I still shoot the occassional j-word when the task at hand requires it (varmints at long distance for example) just like my other bow types will never be covered in dust. It is just like anything I suppose, I enjoy the art of it but I am also not too proud to grab a more modern tool when time is short or higher stakes are on the line.

I wish I had kept track of what feather went where but I didn't....sorry:-( I matched them up in matching groups of 3's and put them in a cedar lined chest with a few mothballs to keep the little feather eating mites/bugs at bay. Little feather eating critters can be quite destructive and turn someones generosity into a mess if not properly tended to. I really do wish I knew though. Some of my arrows have feathers from different states but the arrow does not know or care. ....and my wife quit rolling her eyes at me a long time ago after knowing me for almost 30 years and be married to me for 14 she has come to the conclusion that it will do no good. [smilie=l:

[357maximum]

Camera operator located:



http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l80/357maximum/stonekill014.jpg

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l80/357maximum/stonekill017.jpg

[geargnasher]

CONGRATS, Michael! I'm grinning ear to ear too

You sure did it right, doing all the groundwork, being a competent hunter, competent bowhunter, making and testing all the tools first, learning to knap flint, testing the equipment, and finally getting a chance to put it all together. You really earned it, and I have a feeling this is just the beginning.

Ian

[357maximum]

Thanks Ian, and watch your mailbox near the end of the upcoming week....yeah I am that slow.:groner: been working like a dog but I ain't complaining.

[HotGuns]

Congrats! This thread has been an exellent read and for that I thank you!

I love this sort of stuff! Great Job.

[frankenfab]

I don't even know what to say...congatulations? Just extraordinary!

[357maximum]

Thanks for the compliments fellas. It still makes me feel a great sense of accomplishment and she tastes real good.


If you think real hard about it and if it was truly that extraordinary of a feat none of us would be here today. We would have starved out long ago. I just got a little bit closer to the caveman most claim me to be. [smilie=l: ........AND I AM LOVING EVERY MINUTE OF IT.:bigsmyl2:

[JesterGrin_1]

I am not sure Michael I think you just might be a Cave Man that just happened to run across Gun Powder lol.

I was Positive I saw you as an extra on the GEICO advertisement lol. :)

[357maximum]

ain't it just amazing what a beard trim and a haircut can do for a feller? :bigsmyl2:

uggg ergg nuck nuck grunt

[JesterGrin_1]

Just unbelievably AMAZING :).

[geargnasher]

Thanks for the compliments fellas. It still makes me feel a great sense of accomplishment and she tastes real good.


If you think real hard about it and if it was truly that extraordinary of a feat none of us would be here today. We would have starved out long ago. I just got a little bit closer to the caveman most claim me to be. [smilie=l: ........AND I AM LOVING EVERY MINUTE OF IT.:bigsmyl2:

Difference is, you did it by yourself with a little knowledge and materials you sourced. For our primitive ancestors, hunting this way was a way of life.

Gear

[357maximum]

I bet they would have flat flipped out of their skin over the USPS Flatrate service though. :holysheep


Having to import rock by in my pockets by foot.............I drew the line in the sand about 6 feet behind that thought.:groner: By pickup I would gladly do it though but at 3.50 a gallon that is not gonna happen anytime soon.

[badgeredd]

Congrats Mike! It has been a quest of almost epic proportions from my point of view. Few people would have, or for that matter have taken their hunting to this plateau. It has been fun to watch and I am glad to see you reap the fruit of your labors.

Edd

[357maximum]

Without good friends and very generous souls it would not have happened. I am thankful for that most of all.

Being a bit nutsy cuckoo helps a bit also.:shock:

[Love Life]

Have you ever worked with obsidian?

[357maximum]

I have/do and I like it alot. It knaps like glass but with more class. When I get a bit better on big sheets of glass I am going to get some big pieces of obsidian and make some knives.

[Bad Water Bill]

I have/do and I like it alot. It knaps like glass but with more class. When I get a bit better on big sheets of glass I am going to get some big pieces of obsidian and make some knives.

And just how big a chunk of volcanic glass are you thinking about?:bigsmyl2:

Ask Boer rancher how to make an obsidian knife. Just remember after you finish the knife it will be SURGICALLY sharp. Do not ask me how I know or I will send you a FULL box of well used band aids.:bigsmyl2:

[357maximum]

And just how big a chunk of volcanic glass are you thinking about?:bigsmyl2:


I actually want to try some hand size or bigger obsidian slabs that are 3/16 to 5/16 thick. The TV and window glass has helped me alot and I am now pretty sure I can get a nice knife out of such a slab.


Ask Boer rancher how to make an obsidian knife. Just remember after you finish the knife it will be SURGICALLY sharp. Do not ask me how I know or I will send you a FULL box of well used band aids.:bigsmyl2:

My leather leg pad has alot of blood stains. No flintknapper ever has gone totally bleed free, I am sure of that. I have lost alot of blood for the cause. I even managed to cut my toungue awhile back when I was trying to see the color in a piece of chert. :veryconfu

[waksupi]

I've sure drawn a lot of blood over the years, especially with obsidian.
I asked a couple of very good lithic artists last summer at one of our shoots, how much rock they went through making points and blades. They said they may get 10% actually made into good points. It takes a lot of work and materials to do this stuff! I was glad to hear their estimates, as I always figured I had way too much waste.

[hiram1]

looks real good to me ,I like to see good work done

[Bad Water Bill]

I've sure drawn a lot of blood over the years, especially with obsidian

Before they started using laser for surgery many eye DRs used obsidian. The flakes are so sharp they can cut between the individual cells and heal with 0 scar tissue.

That was told to me by 2 eye surgeons while collecting at the pink princess digs in California.

I have been struck in the face with chips and did not know it till the red stuff started to migrate from my beard onto my T shirt. Nope no scars there either.