44 special alloy

[buck1]

I have a .44 spl and no jacketed bullets could be made to mushroom. Also no cast boolits from ACWW will mushroom. Has anyone tryed 50/50 WW and pure lead? I am low on pure lead and would like to get a bit of feed back before I mix it. Thanks...Buck :Fire:

[docone31]

50/50 WW and pure works well.
I have a .45 Schofield that I use that in. No leading, sizes the same as my 1911, and it does expand.
Betweent the two, the Schofield has a touch more stop power, the ACP can throw more down range faster than a single action.
I have tried that mixture, and with water quenching, it works real well.

[kbstenberg]

I have been testing 50/50AC for my 44Mag. very good expansion.
Iv been using 18gr 2400 , Mihec reproduction 503 H.P.
Kevin
Sorrie i forgot ive allso been useing 25pb to 1sn. Been getting good exp. with 7.5gr Unique

[Bass Ackward]

I have a .44 spl and no jacketed bullets could be made to mushroom. Thanks...Buck :Fire:


If the key word in your statement above was "no" and those are pure lead (5 BHN) and hollow pointed, then what is 8 BHN going to do for ya?

If no was NOT all inclusive, then maybe it's worth a try. I have used 200 gr XTP's and got them to open up. But that wasn't on a sheet of paper or an apple either. Maybe a pumpkin or a space alien or something. :grin:

[geargnasher]

I have been testing 50/50AC for my 44Mag. very good expansion.
Iv been using 18gr 2400 , Mihec reproduction 503 H.P.
Kevin
Sorrie i forgot ive allso been useing 25pb to 1sn. Been getting good exp. with 7.5gr Unique

You also forgot the OP was asking about .44 Special not Magnum:grin: 18 grains of 2400 would scatter one of those.

I was going to say 20:1 for .44 special or possibly just look for a non-expanding, flat-nosed boolit mould with large meplat and use straight ACWW.

Gear

[geargnasher]

If the key word in your statement above was "no" and those are pure lead (5 BHN) and hollow pointed, then what is 8 BHN going to do for ya?

If no was NOT all inclusive, then maybe it's worth a try. I have used 200 gr XTP's and got them to open up. But that wasn't on a sheet of paper or an apple either. Maybe a pumpkin or a space alien or something. :grin:

I dunno, Bass, I could say the same thing about .45 ACP. No jacketed HP that I have tried has expanded with any reliability except for one brand of super-duper self-defense ammo that was about a dollar-fifty a pop. Got Speer Gold Dots to expand ok with a 22-lb slide spring and about [bleepety-bleep] grains of Unique, you don't want to know how much. I dont' care how soft the cores are, those stinkin' jackets are tough. 8 bhn without the jacket should be perfect IMO.

Gear

[white eagle]

ya may wanna try the soft points like Dick Thompson makes
pure,. followed by ww,to fill the mold,and then water quench em
may work for yaz

[Edubya]

What mould are you using? I have gotten the Mihec mould boolits to expand real nicely in the .44 and .45 using mid loads of BE, Unique, Universal and several others. using WW and 2% Tin. I can't find the pictures to show you right now but I'll look again tomorrow.

EW

[Edubya]

Buck, I can't seem to find all of the data on the boolits but they were some of the first that I shot from the mould so I know that they were a lower levels.

The alloy was WW with 2% of tin.

The one on the left is the .44 and I think that they were either 6.5 gr Unique or maybe 7 gr. The .45 was 5.0 gr BE, 840 FPS.

EW

[Larry Gibson]

buck1

I have a .44 spl and no jacketed bullets could be made to mushroom. Also no cast boolits from ACWW will mushroom. Has anyone tryed 50/50 WW and pure lead? I am low on pure lead and would like to get a bit of feed back before I mix it. Thanks...Buck

You don't say what the velocity is or at least the handgun being used. If you are using standard manual .44 Special loads. then I suggest you take the lead you have and add enough tin to make it 1-40 tin lead.

If you have a handgun that can take the heavy .44 Special loads then you might try 25/75 WWs/lead or even the 50/50 WW/lead. Years ago I had a 4" M28 S&W converted to .44 Special. With a Lyman 429421 cast of the 1-40 or the 25/75 alloys and HP'd with a Forster tool expansion was very good out to 50 yards when loaded over 16 gr 2400 for 1050 fps. The 1-40 alloy cast HP'd bullet over 7.5 gr Unique at 850 fps also gave very good expansion out to 25 yards at least. I use Javelina lube and experienced no leading.

Larry Gibson

[9.3X62AL]

If expansion was my prime concern from a pistol alloy, I think a lead/tin mix would get the call. This would go double if the velocity envelope was in the sub-1000 FPS area,

My preference above 1000 FPS is to cast soft-points using the BruceB Softpoint Method. This is slower than the speed of a glacier in production rate, but you aren't using/shooting a whole lot of them, and practice loads of homogenous alloy shoot to the same point of aim in my testing with 45-70 and 9.3 x 62 rifles. I see no reason why handgun boolits would vary between the two types.

[Bass Ackward]

No jacketed HP that I have tried has expanded with any reliability except for one brand of super-duper self-defense ammo that was about a dollar-fifty a pop. I dont' care how soft the cores are, those stinkin' jackets are tough. 8 bhn without the jacket should be perfect IMO.Gear


For the average guy maybe. But I cheat. :grin:


These are all handgun 44s taken from deer except for the cast. The cast on the right was taken from a deer that was standing behind the one I shot that I didn't see. That was a 260 gr LBT LFN solid out of 20-1 at about 900fps strike out of a 5" 625.

The jacketed are 240 XTPs also at strikes at 1000 fps or lower. Note the one on the left was a raking shot and the HP nose collapsed in on itself. I didn't use wax. The center two had the wax.

That's why I always use wax in HP cavities. A hollow point won't expand worth a darn without some material in it to cause hydraulics to force the nose open. Why not have the material in it when the slug gets there?

If you have wax, it will open to VERY LOW velocities no matter how hard or soft it is. Hydraulics: liquids can't be compressed so something has to give. :grin:

Can't win fair in life, cheat!

[powhs]

I cast some pure soft lead 220gr HP's and loaded them to 810fps then shot one into water filled milk jugs yesterday. It penetrated four jugs. The bullet lost the HP portion in the second jug and final weight was 168 grains. Without the hollow point these bullets would not expand in my water test. I need to add some harder lead and try it again.

[buck1]

This is being shot from a 2" C A Bulldog. Its my CCW. I dont care about what the lawers would say about rolling my own, near as much as living through a conflict. God forbid I ever had to use it. But If I did, It must work.
My load is 8.0 unique, Under the Lee 200gr RF, Hornady 180 XTP, sierra 180 gr, 185 gr MP RHP.
This load is max for this little gun. The HP mold breaks the nose off on impact and remains a wad cutter after that. The rest could almost be refired.
I thought the XTP would would open but it just wont , not even in hard dirt.
I had not thought of the old PB/SN alloys.
I have a good supply of tin , lots of WWs, but Pure lead is hard to come by, But I have a little.
I feel there is enugh power in this load to open up the right bullet alloy combo and be a self defence load. But I just want to stack the odds in my favor before I alloy this discracefully small amount of pure lead.
Thanks for all your help guys!!...Buck

[runfiverun]

30-1 has long been the favorite of hollowpointers.
but they generally use gas checks.
the 50-50 and a filled nose could get you there also.
i'd go with the soft tin/lead alloy and find a buddy with a swaging set-up to h-point with that.
take a look at b.t. snipers threads in the swaging section he makes a cutting tool that preprograms the nose to open then recloses it as it hollowpoints.
it also reforms the nose shape to a rounded one however.

[fredj338]

If you are talking solids, only soft lead is going to deform @ 44spec vel. If it's a decent HP, 50/50 lead/ww mix works for me at 850fps, easily done in the 44sp w/ bullets to 250gr.

[Crash_Corrigan]

I have fired some 256 GR LSWC rounds over 6.5 gr of Unique from my Bulldog and it about tore offa my hand. The recoil was horrific. I then toned it down to 4.8 gr of Unique with a 256 GR LSWC and it was possible to fire 5 rounds and still have feelings in my fingers and hand.

I recently bought a box of Hornady 180 GR XTP J word HP for ccw carry because of the reviews I found on the Midway site. The guy there said that the recoil from the lighter bullet was acceptable and the round was accurate.

In your case I would use pure soft lead HP of 200 gr over maybe 6 gr of Unique and hold on for dear life. The round should open up good and deliver some decent terminal ballistics for you.

I carry the CA Bulldog on the hip and a Llama 380 ACP in another pocket for a backup for a NY reload in case of multiple targets. We have a severe infestation of illegal immigrants hereabouts and they are nasty.

[Ole]

Take a look at the 200 grain 44 Gold dot that is designed to expand at 44 special velocities.

They are true flying ashtray design:

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh280/Ole1830/IMG_5338.jpg

[buck1]

GREAT info guys !! Thanks for the help!....Buck

[Dark Helmet]

Take a look at the 200 grain 44 Gold dot that is designed to expand at 44 special velocities.

They are true flying ashtray design:

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh280/Ole1830/IMG_5338.jpg


I was gonna ... +1 on the Gold Dots

[buck1]

They look like they will work well!!

[JIMinPHX]

My first reply was going to be - try a bigger, fatter hollow point.

I think that Ole is the guy that has the best advice though. He's using the same rig that you are & getting good results.

[fecmech]

Buck--If you decide to cast your own the 40/1 mix previously recommended or even straight lead as also suggested would be the way to go IMO. The old "FBI" load in .38 spl was just that, a swaged pure lead HP and they expanded at snub nosed velocities of 775-800 fps. Once you get down to 800-900fps you need a big hollow point and soft lead.

[Ole]

Here's some related reading:

http://www.speer-bullets.com/pdf/ReloadingSupplementalDATA/44_200GD.pdf

They are expensive, but my box of a 100 should last me forever unless I get into a lot of gunfights. :kidding:

[fecmech]

That GD HP sure looks and sounds impressive. If it works as advertised I sure wouldn't be casting any HP's!

[fredj338]

That GD HP sure looks and sounds impressive. If it works as advertised I sure wouldn't be casting any HP's!
Why not, at 44sp vel, a LHP would work just as well IMO. Cheaper too.

[fecmech]

Why not, at 44sp vel, a LHP would work just as well IMO. Cheaper too.

I'm sure it would but the thread was originally for SD bullets for carry purposes and I wouldn't have a high usage rate under those conditions. A box of 100 would last the rest of my life! For years I had a 429421 HP mold and a 358439 HP mold and when I hunted woodchucks I used them but even then I would only shoot 50-75 bullets a year. I sold them both on Ebay a while back and got over $350. between the two of them and don't miss them a bit. Casting HP's is a pain in the butt for just general shooting.

[Ole]

Here's what one of these Gold Dots looks like after penetrating through 3 2 liter bottles of water (it stopped in the 4th) :

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh280/Ole1830/DSC00103.jpg

It started life @ 200 grains and still weighs 199.3 grains.

Load was 8.0gr of Unique. Fired out of a .44 CA 2.5". I stood about 15 feet away and got drenched.

[Shooter6br]

I user 25-1 in 45ACP 200 g HP at 950fps. I also use the same 25-1 in my 210g HP 41 mag at 1000 FPS. At 7 yrds it will go thur first jug(water filled) and the second stops the bullet. Both Milhec molds

[Shooter6br]

41 mag 1000 fps at 7 yards Water filled jugd. 210 g (205 recovered)

[pcw907]

I would consider the Hornady Flex Tip for .44

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=894347

Or possibly a simple 200 grain wadcutter in soft lead/tin

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=507087

[a.squibload]

Or just plain 'ol Fed LHPs...

http://i1222.photobucket.com/albums/dd487/a-squibload/DSCF0102.jpg

[Good Cheer]

Used the C&B pistol hollow base with the ogive ground out straight to duplicate the Webley Manstopper. That'll roll an armadilla!