Question about a Winchester I saw.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

So I was in a local gun store buying more powder when this rifle caught my eye. (You all know how that goes) Anyways I asked to see it… I can’t remember the exact model # but for some reason I want to say 1895 (I could be wrong so please correct me if I am). It was a lever action in 30-06 with a box magazine, and had a rear peep sight. The metal had been refinished in an ugly matte gray sort of finish, but the rifle still shouldered well. I went to cycle the lever and it was so hard to open the action I actually stopped and looked to see if they had a zip-tie around the lever. Nope no zip-tie, just very tight. Is this “tightness” I felt in cycling the gun normal? Can it be “slicked up?” I have always loved the 30-06, and would love to have one in a lever action, but I did not like the stiff action, and my gut told me that $850 was a little high for an ugly refinished Winchester (but again I could be wrong). Some input on this rifle would be most appreciated.

[elk hunter]

Sure sounds like an 1895 to me, did it look like this one? Was it a modern one or an original? I've had two of them, one in 30-03 and one in 30-06, both ran real slick. A friend has a Japanese one in 30-06 and it looks and runs rather rough compared to mine.

Price sounds about like what a rather rough or refinished one would go for around here.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

Elk Hunter that is the gun. Only if I remember correctly the forehand was deeply grooved and there was a peep sight back on the receiver. Oh and the owner of the shop said it was an original that had been refinished, and I do trust him on that.

[KirkD]

The '95 carbine has a deeply grooved forearm. Sounds like an original that needs to have the action cleaned and oiled.

[Trailblazer]

My 1895 in 30-40 is the smoothest lever action I own and I own several. It is slicker than my 1873 and they have a reputation for smoothness. There is something not quite right in that one for it to be that hard to operate.

[runfiverun]

my 30-40 original is the hardest action i have ever encountered on a levergun.
and iv'e looked at some rough ones.

[jhrosier]

I have three recent production 1895s.
The Browning 30-06 is the smoothest action. It feels like it is running on roller bearings.
The Winchester .405 is second, still very smooth though.
The new 30-06 saddle ring carbine that I picked up last week needs a couple hundred cycles to smooth it a bit.

If I had an older '95 that was 'stickey', I would suspect dirt/congealed lube.

Jack

[missionary5155]

Good morning
They are fine old rifles... I would be snatching it whiel waving green stuff about.
My .30 Gov is fun to lug atround even with a 28" barrel.

[MtGun44]

This is not going to make me any points in this crowd.

Two comments - IMO this is THE unhandiest rifle design I have ever handled. WAY too
wide for my hand at the balance point, totally unlike all other lever guns which are
great for one handed carry. Ahead or behind the fat mag makes for a lot of load
on the wrist after a couple of minutes. The rotary mag on the Sav99 keeps the
balance point 'one-hand-able'. One man's opinion, will probably get slammed
for it by '95 lovers.

Second, the original design was pretty marginal with the steels of the day for
hotrodding in .30-06. I have heard reports that many have stretched recievers
from too hot loads. Have the headspace checked and stay sensible when
loading. .30 Army (what they are marked in .30-40 Krag) has always been in
the correct pressure range and are reported to stand up better.

Bill

[StrawHat]

This is not going to make me any points in this crowd.

Two comments - IMO this is THE unhandiest rifle design I have ever handled. WAY too
wide for my hand at the balance point, totally unlike all other lever guns which are
great for one handed carry. Ahead or behind the fat mag makes for a lot of load
on the wrist after a couple of minutes. The rotary mag on the Sav99 keeps the
balance point 'one-hand-able'. One man's opinion, will probably get slammed
for it by '95 lovers.

Second, the original design was pretty marginal with the steels of the day for
hotrodding in .30-06. I have heard reports that many have stretched recievers
from too hot loads. Have the headspace checked and stay sensible when
loading. .30 Army (what they are marked in .30-40 Krag) has always been in
the correct pressure range and are reported to stand up better.

Bill

I agree with the second point about the design not being up to the 30-06 loads of the time when it was introduced. Not sure if todays steel improve the strength of the rifle any.

My 405 is a bit thick at the magazine but balances well just in front of the magazine so I carry it there.

[MtGun44]

Good to hear that the 405 balances fwd of the mag! The .30-06 and .30 Army
models that I have handled balanced right in the middle of the receiver, which
made it strictly a two handed affair for me. Got old really quick. Since many
love the design, either I've got too small hands (Lg glove size) or am just
not doing it right.

Bill

[StrawHat]

I just pulled out the 1895 and gave it a try. Fully loaded the balance is as I said just in front of the magazine. Handling it also jogged my memory, so here is the Paul Harvey on it. I had this rifle converted from 30 Gov't to 405 and installed a 27" barrel on it. The slightly heavier barrel may account for why the balance on my rifle is a bit different from others.

[Bret4207]

This is not going to make me any points in this crowd.

Two comments - IMO this is THE unhandiest rifle design I have ever handled. WAY too
wide for my hand at the balance point, totally unlike all other lever guns which are
great for one handed carry. Ahead or behind the fat mag makes for a lot of load
on the wrist after a couple of minutes. The rotary mag on the Sav99 keeps the
balance point 'one-hand-able'. One man's opinion, will probably get slammed
for it by '95 lovers.

Second, the original design was pretty marginal with the steels of the day for
hotrodding in .30-06. I have heard reports that many have stretched recievers
from too hot loads. Have the headspace checked and stay sensible when
loading. .30 Army (what they are marked in .30-40 Krag) has always been in
the correct pressure range and are reported to stand up better.

Bill


I agree with your post Bill, especially the part about the Savage 99 handling sooooo much better. Still, if I had the bucks I know where there's a 30-40 Krag 95 that I'd buy in less than a heart beat.

[MtGun44]

They are technically neat rifles, JB's last levergun, but very awkward to carry. Needs two
hands essentially all the time or on a sling. I hear that the .405 is pretty impressive
in recoil, too.

Bill

[Heavy lead]

Wow, just goes to show you how opinions differ. I bought a made in 1984 Browning 1895 in 30-06, it is not only the smoothest lever gun I've ever worked, but it balances real nice, now it's no 92 for handiness, but it's certainly IMO every bit as handy as the Marlin 1895 or 444, and much handier than some 1886's I've handled. I'm going to buy a Lyman 21 sight for it, and I'll be set.

[Frank46]

I have a saddle ring carbine in 30 U.S. aka 30-40 krag. Was really gunked up something bad. Mucho patches, q-tips and scrubbing all the nooks and crannies and now its very smooth. Sounds like the finish (parkerizing or whatever) is the cause of the stiffness. Suggestion would be to throughly slop on some clp and sit and work the action a bunch and then really clean any gunk. Hopefully that should do the trick.
Frank

[9.3X62AL]

One of my mentors, the late Ellis Simon of Yucaipa, was a gunsmith of some note locally. A mutual acquaintance brought in an original 1895 in 30-06 that was in 95% shape that he had inherited, and since I knew NOTHING about the rifles I suggested a trip to Ellis' shop to get the briefing.

Ellis told us to either use factory 150 grain ammo, or reload the empties with IMR 4320 (or slower) powders to 1906 velocities--which for the 150 grainer is 2700 FPS.

3 summers back, a shop in Simi Valley had 2 Rising Sun Repro 95s for sale, one each in 30-40 and 30-06 for $900 each. I was very tempted to Snag That Krag, but was a little afraid of the 30-06.

[StrawHat]

...I hear that the .405 is pretty impressive
in recoil, too...Bill


Not all that bad actually.

With the original ballistics of a 300 grain projectile at +/- 2200 fps, yes you do know you pulled the trigger but it is not the shoulder wrecking monster folks would have you believe. I have a plastic and metal joint for a shoulder and find the load to be shootable but I still prefer to down load it just like I did before surgery. I load the Lyman 412263 and 28 grains of 5744 for a nice accurate load. Others have told me 30 grains of 3031 makes a nice load but I have not yet tried that one. It is nice to have a good 40 caliber capable of reduced loads and still have the factory equivalent stuff available if you think you need it. My loads have given me satisfaction so I don't use anything hotter. Oh, my rifle has the original rifle butt plate that is said to be knife edged. At the milder velocities, it shoots well.