Maybe common sense and Washington, DC

[okksu]

isn't an oxymoron after all:

"Responding to a grassroots outcry from gun owners, the Environmental Protection Agency today announced that it has denied a petition by the Center for Biological Diversity and other radical groups that had sought to ban the use of lead in ammunition.

Agreeing with the position of the NRA and the firearms industry, the agency explained in a news release that it "does not have the legal authority to regulate this type of product under the Toxic Substances Control Act (TSCA)." Further crushing the hopes of anti-gun and anti-hunting activists, the release added: "nor is the agency seeking such authority."

From an NRA-ILA e-mail this AM

[1Shirt]

However, as a former Pres. said: "TRUST------BUT-------VARIFY!" If a statement from any thing resembling something that comes from government from ANY form in print remain skeptical. Remember what the defination of "is-is".
1Shirt!:coffee:

[ScottJ]

This might have been an "Overton Window" sort of thing because lead fishing weights are still on the chopping block.

Throw out the boolit ban, everyone screams and stomps their feet, the EPA "relents" and gets what it wanted all along while seeming reasonable.

As a shooter and a fisherman I'm still concerned about the lead weight ban.

[MtGun44]

NOT common sense, they were legally FORCED to drop it. No choice whatsoever.

EPA does NOT do common sense.

A typical example - they prevented the skimmer ships from working in the Gulf because
the only water standard that they had was a standard that only permitted a few parts
per million of oil in discharge water. They could NOT use common sense and realize that removing
99.9% of the oil from the skimmed water would be better than doing NOTHING. So they
did not permit the skimmers to clean up the Gulf because they would discharge water
after skimming that was "ONLY" 99.9% clean, not good enough for these rocket scientists.

Don't EVER think that the EPA has any relationship whatsoever with 'common sense'.

They are the worst kind of brain dead, spineless bureacrats.

Bill

[beetle]

I would not be surprised if the EPA came under some pressure from the administration and/or the Democratic National Committee to pull this until after the elections in November.

[geargnasher]

Don't EVER think that the EPA has any relationship whatsoever with 'common sense'.

They are the worst kind of brain dead, spineless bureacrats.

Bill

Indeed. The EPA, as a Federal entity working together with CARB, set a random and completely unattainable limit on formaldehyde emmisions from panel manufacturers in California a few years ago. The only solution was to eliminate formaldehyde completely from the process, but since there is no economical substitute guess how many panel manufacturers went out of business or moved to other countries after the limits took effect?

The company I worked for at the time got their plywood from Blue Linx, and suddenly they started selling us plywood, made with formaldehyde adhesive, from, you guessed it, CHINA, which has no EPA or CARB. (they also have no air, either, but that's another story).

Gear

[waksupi]

And this, I believe, is topic #9 on this subject.

[MtGun44]

Lead ban or brain dead EPA? :bigsmyl2:

Bill

[mastercast.com]

And this, I believe, is topic #9 on this subject.


What if it is #50 on this topic....it is my considered opinion that it needed to be seen by all on this forum. Most of us do not read every post in every category listed. If it was not in the proper category, perhaps one more person read it instead of missed it and responded. Just one mans opinion.

[mastercast.com]

This from a friend that works in the heavy equipment/coal mining industry-

"I just heard about this and it goes much deeper than even the firarms industry. OSHA has doubled their manpower and an edict has come down from Obama and his administration that all OSHA fines, which were unbelieveably high to start with, are to be doubled....DOUBLED! These fines will not only cripple but shut doors on these companies for good. The liberals are attempting to kill this country.

The coal industry is on the verge of being fined into oblivion and the Democrats are using water enviornmental regulations to do the job.

If we do not begin the flushing process this November, we will all be raising camels for a living."

[waksupi]

What if it is #50 on this topic....it is my considered opinion that it needed to be seen by all on this forum. Most of us do not read every post in every category listed. If it was not in the proper category, perhaps one more person read it instead of missed it and responded. Just one mans opinion.

It doesn't hurt to look at what is already posted on the first page of the topics first before posting. It's no big deal, but it is nice when all comments on a subject are under one heading.

[rhead]

It doesn't hurt to look at what is already posted on the first page of the topics first before posting. It's no big deal, but it is nice when all comments on a subject are under one heading.

Thank you!!!!!Some time it is like someone ripped all the pages out of a book , tossed them in a box and shook them up.

[XWrench3]

EPA does NOT do common sense. AMEN to that! actually, NOTHING in OUR government has ANYTHING to do with comon sense!

[Harter66]

That common sense part rings too true in my work place. We've started handling ..........................a new item tha most of us played with as kids . It comes in milled double sealed steel jars packed in thermal sealed super bags inside a double walled drum resting in a catch tray that could hold the contents of any 2 of the 5 drums per pallet. It takes 4 handlers ,4 QCs,2 environmentalists,and 8-10 fire fighters to load or unload it. If there we're a spill anywhere in the last 300 miles of transportation its not only possible but very likely to recover far more than was spilled . It adds 40 hours of additional training to be at the load site. It only takes 3 personel to load ordanence older than nearly every member of this forum and if we have a spill we just shovel it back in its can and continue on.

I've been through well over 500 hours over Haz-mat training with instructors that can actually make 300 page regulations make sense. " the EPA has issued many many statments stating that they won't touch 2 activities , shooting and undertaking". I suppose fear of messing with 1 will cause need of the other.

[David2011]

So they did not permit the skimmers to clean up the Gulf because they would discharge water after skimming that was "ONLY" 99.9% clean, not good enough for these rocket scientists.

Bill

I think my real rocket scientist friends would have their feelings hurt.

David

[MtGun44]

Sorry to insult the rocket scientists - that was meant to be sarcasm. :-)

Bill

[jimmeyjack]

Why is anyone suprised about the coal? Obama said he would bankrupt the industry on live tv during the campain.

[dakotashooter2]

The information I read indicated that the court found the bullet ban to be a conflict of interest with the second amendment. Fishing sinkers however are not previously addressed by the constitution and as such could still be regulated.

[9.3X62AL]

Mastercast et al--

Maybe you think that beating us over the head with every real or imagined threat to gun rights is the right thing to do, but I for one am thoroughly and completely BURNED OUT on the component shortages--PETA--CEQA--CBD--and every other alphabet-soup pressure group trying to steal my freedoms--and with the Chicken Little THE SKY IS FALLING responses that assault us from every point of the compass. I come here to discuss Cast Boolits, their enjoyment, and their usage. If I want to hear bad news, there's always the NRA or NBC.

Some of us are just plain darn SICK TO DEATH of the constant bad news. GIVE IT A FARKING REST, WOULD YA?

[mastercast.com]

Mastercast et al--

Maybe you think that beating us over the head with every real or imagined threat to gun rights is the right thing to do, but I for one am thoroughly and completely BURNED OUT on the component shortages--PETA--CEQA--CBD--and every other alphabet-soup pressure group trying to steal my freedoms--and with the Chicken Little THE SKY IS FALLING responses that assault us from every point of the compass. I come here to discuss Cast Boolits, their enjoyment, and their usage. If I want to hear bad news, there's always the NRA or NBC.

Some of us are just plain darn SICK TO DEATH of the constant bad news. GIVE IT A FARKING REST, WOULD YA?


Sir,

That was not an imagined threat to gun rights. It was real absent comment from the public and the NRA. If you are burned out on the subject, please go live your life under a rock somewhere. This was nothing to do with Chicken Little or The Sky is Falling....it was a real threat that if not followed up on would most certainly have been new law. The folks running the country right now see the Constitution as a document that they, THEY, should interpret, or ignore completely.

My Father was a Lt. Colonel in the army. One of the rirst things that he told me was "Lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way!" You might want to give that one a little thought.

He also told me that "The way for evil to triumph, is for good men to do nothing." Kind of like what you seem to want to do. Please give that one a little thought.

No Sir, I will not give it a "farking rest" as you put it...I am kind of amazed that you would do so.

I am probably as tired of "BAD NEWS" as your are. The differernce is, I am not willing to surrender.

[Gohon]

The information I read indicated that the court found the bullet ban to be a conflict of interest with the second amendment.

No it did not.........the second amendment had nothing to do with dropping the petition.

[mastercast.com]

No it did not.........the second amendment had nothing to do with dropping the petition.

Perhaps that is true,(I do not agree with that) but it had everything to do with the right to own fireams. If we are not able to possess or buy lead based traditional ammunition, the price will be so high that we will no longer be able to shoot with enough volume to remain proficient. Those that are on the low end of the pole with regard to affording ammo, would not be able to purchase it. Gun control with regard to the cost of ammo. They do not have to ban guns, they can raise the cost of ammunition to the point that none of us can afford to feed our guns. They can ban reloading ammo, they can ban possession of powder(good Lord that might be used tomake a bomb), they can ban sale and possesion of lead bullets, they can ban sale and possesion of lead, they can ban possesion of any type of ammo, they can make you turn in all ammo that you have that does not have a "micro-stamp" on the case or bullet, etc.. All by a a signature on a document by the Muslim in the White House.

Please wake up.

[Gohon]

Originally Posted by Gohon
No it did not.........the second amendment had nothing to do with dropping the petition.




Perhaps that is true,(I do not agree with that) but it had everything to do with the right to own fireams. If we are not able to possess or buy lead based traditional ammunition, the price will be so high that we will no longer be able to shoot with enough volume to remain proficient. Those that are on the low end of the pole with regard to affording ammo, would not be able to purchase it. Gun control with regard to the cost of ammo. They do not have to ban guns, they can raise the cost of ammunition to the point that none of us can afford to feed our guns. They can ban reloading ammo, they can ban possession of powder(good Lord that might be used tomake a bomb), they can ban sale and possesion of lead bullets, they can ban sale and possesion of lead, they can ban possesion of any type of ammo, they can make you turn in all ammo that you have that does not have a "micro-stamp" on the case or bullet, etc.. All by a a signature on a document by the Muslim in the White House. Please wake up.

All of what you say is true as far as the groups that submitted the petition for the ban on lead bullets, but the last couple of lines only shows paranoia from listening to internet keyboard Rambos. However........by law when all the paper work submitted is correct the EPA must receive and review. They must also notify the public of the petition and ask for public comment. All this they did according to law. Didn't mean they were going to accept and implement anything. The EPA didn't initiate and submit the request to themselves nor did the White House. It was a bunch of anti hunting anti gun groups. Then when it was pointed out to the EPA that they didn't have the authority to implement such a ban even if they wanted to, they notified the petitioners and closed the petition.

Again......the second amendment didn't have a thing to do with the EPA closing the petition request.

People wonder why a lot of congressmen don't respond to some of their constitutes questions and letters........well here is a good example. You're right, please wake up and learn the facts or at least how deep the water is before diving in head first.

[Fixxah]

Ted Kennedy (God torture his soul) was always looking to screw gun owners using the killings of his brothers as a reason. I distinctly remember his trying to pass enormous tax increases and "taggarts" on ammo. Glad this is a rallying cry of sorts. Thanks for carrying on.

[Meatco1]

I too am happy to be kept abreast on these topics!

Respects,

Richard

[MtGun44]

Gohon is exactly right on how it went down.

I stand by my point that common sense NEVER enters into anything that the EPA
does, and the mistaken belief that it might happen sometimes is taken only at
one's peril.

Understanding your enemy is critical to defeating them. It is very important to understand
that they will NOT just some day "see the light". They are implacably dedicated to destroying
modern industrial capitalist society under the guise of "saving the environment". The only
way to change this is to rewrite the laws that empower the EPA so that they limit them.

We have already made MASSIVE improvements in the primary pollution sources that used to
befoul our air and water. Do we want to stop and reverse this excellent progress towards
clean water and air? OF COURSE NOT, but the ever tightening regulation of everything - far
below the levels that have been shown to cause any harm is a guranteed road to bankruptcy
and destruction of our lifestyle.

An example is lead in berms at ranges. Study after study has proven that this lead is NOT
mobile and does not foul the ground water. The does not stop the antigun activists from
raising this again and again.

I am all for clean water and air, but there are rational limits on what is necessary for health
and safety. EPA bureacrats do NOT see this. When they get a new machine that can measure
1000 times smaller concentrations of something - they want to regulate it down 1000 times
lower. This is insane. At some incredibly low level, they can find ANY sort of chemical in
ANY place. The fact that it is such a tiny amount as to be totally irrelevant and harmless will
never be told - just the scare headline " Chemicals found in drinking water" or "Children's
blood contaminate with ABCDFR2!" I'm all for proper safety regulations, but if something
is harmless at the parts per billion level, I do not care if it is found at that level in some
place like drinking water or the air.

Sorry for the rant, but these non-scientific fools are creating huge hidden damage in our society
under the claim of "saving it". They are primarily interested in saving their jobs, creating
power and forwarding their marxist agenda.

Bill

[mpmarty]

The solution is coming in about six weeks. VOTE THEM OUT! VOTE EVERY LAST ONE OF THE SOBS OUT OF OFFICE. It would be a good idea to re-write the rules for ex-congressmen and strip them of their pension for life they now enjoy. Give them social security like the rest of us and call it good enough. See what they figure out to fund it then.

[whisler]

mpmarty: AMEN!!!