300 Yard Target

[45 2.1]

Here is a target shot by a board member that PM'd me for some help about 6 months ago. The boolits are from one of my molds and show just what you can achieve when things are right. Its not a fluke as he does the same thing with two other calibers. The load is shooting a 375 H&H 300 gr. boolit at 1,900 fps at 300 yds.

[JDL]

Wow, very impressive!!! -JDL

[44man]

That makes me want to buy a .375! Wonderful. Did you make the mould or design the boolit?

[45 2.1]

That makes me want to buy a .375! Wonderful. Did you make the mould or design the boolit?

The mold is a two cavity two different boolit job that is a standard number put out in NEIs catalog, but will probably require a taper die to get that vertical string out of it. A 375 H&H is a wonderfull caliber, especially with cast.

[9.3X62AL]

THAT is one fine 3-shotter at 300 yards, for sure. Hell, I'd be happy with that performance at 100 yards!

[klausg]

45 2.1- Very nice! I've been playing around with some NEI .375-304-GC (#287), also an RCBS 37-250-FN in my H&H's. They're shooting well, but nothing like that; how about some data?

-Klaus

[45 2.1]

45 2.1- Very nice! I've been playing around with some NEI .375-304-GC (#287), also an RCBS 37-250-FN in my H&H's. They're shooting well, but nothing like that; how about some data?

-Klaus

This is what was written on the full target:
375 H&H, NEI 280 gr. GC, 38.0 gr. 5744

Check the data before you use it.

[rvpilot76]

Look at that for repeatability; the target on the right looks exactly like the target on the left! :-D

Sorry, couldn't resist!

Kevin

[Bass Ackward]

Nice to see a fella having success. Remarkably stable too judging by the holes being launched at only 1900. Must be nice design.

[oso]

Wish my 300 yd. 10 shot groups looked like that.

[Buckshot]

.............Some pretty fancy shooting, that! AS Deputy Al said, wished my 375 Whelen-Ackley shot that well at 100 yards.

...............Buckshot

[LAH]

Geez.......not sure my .22-250 will do that. HEE HEE

[Topper]

That's a mighty impressive group for 300yds;-)

[StarMetal]

Fellows it was a nice day to shoot today so I thought I'd try something different. I moved my bench clean back to the field the barn is in. That gave me 300 yards to my target backstop. Initially I took my CZ 550 Deluxe 30-06 out with 3x9 scope and two bullets the Lyman 311284 and the Lyman 314299, both sized 310 for the CZ. Four different loads with surplus 4895, 860, and 5010. Yesterday at 100 yards the 311284 with two powders shot a 1/2 inch group. NOw back at 300 I wasn't satisfied with what the CZ did. My bullseye was on a white sheet of paper and it was a black circle about 3 inches in diameter with the black being about an inch thick with a white center of little over an inch. Not real good to see even on 9X from 300 yards. Now let me make one thing perfectly clear here. All the loads shot, also the loads shot in two other rifles I will tell you about here, were cast them of WW's water quenched, lube/size/check them in Lyman luber/sizer, load in Remington brass. There was NO brass preparation or tricks, no weigh the bullets, the powder charges were volume throw from my Belding Mull powder measure...absolutely just load the darn things and shoot them. I did seat the bullets to engrave the rifling in the two bolt rifles. Now let me tell you what the rifles were. The CZ I already mentioned. The second rifle is a Finn39 that is scoped with a compact 2x8 Tasco (even harder to see that bullseye I mentioned), and the third rifle was my Yugo SKS which is also scoped with the same model 2x8 Tasco compact. The Yugo was using the Lee 312-155 bullet of water quenched WW's and surplus 4895 powder. The Yugo used my own concoction bullet lube, the bolt guns used 50/50 Beeswax/Alox. Bench is a three-legged plywood model I made from plans I got years ago. Pretty steady, not rock steady..Front rifle rest is made from a scissor type car jack modified with a curved rubber covered piece on top to cradle the rifle, the rear of the rifle supported by a shot bag filled with white sand. Fairly good set-up but not dead serious bench rest. Ok so here we have throwed together loads, two military rifles, one bolt, one semi-auto, and one new commercial Mauser style rifle, with average hunting scopes, not target scopes, and a middle of the road bench set up.

The first target will be the Yugo. That's a 3 1/4 inch group at 300 yards. Very differcult rifle to hold on the bench, scope is fairly high, trigger is terrible.

Next up is the first target I shot with the Finn39 on the same target board I was fooling around with the CZ 550 bolt rifle. By the way there won't be any pics of the CZ targer (they were just about the same as the Finn39). Okay that group is 2 3/8 inch at 300 yards. Next and last is the Finn39 three shot groups three times. These averaged out to be little under 4 1/4 which is 4.20. On that one three shot group those two close shot are 7/8 inch apart. There is NO doubt in my mine with weight and fitted bullets, weighed charges, all the bench tricks to the brass and overall loaded cartridge, better scopes, and last but definately not least, a better bullseyes, that I would have shot much smaller groups.

I apologize to my fans for not having one ragged hole groups here with all three rifles...sorry guys.

Joe

[Char-Gar]

Joe.. You could have had those one ragged hole 300 yard groups, but you used white sand in the bag! Brown sand is where it is at..I thought you knew that!!!

[StarMetal]

Well holy mackeral Chargar...hang on, let me write that note down...hmmm da da de brown sand in sandbag...Ok Charger got it buddy. About how much of a fraction of inch will the brown sand knock off the groups? :drinks:

Joe

[ron brooks]

Joe,

Please tell me morre about uing 5010 in 30-06.

Gratefully,

Ron

[StarMetal]

Ron,

5010 is very slow burning powder and it's the stick tube type with very large thick granules. It's very dirty burning. In fact Oldfeller dubbed it the White Powder in reference to Black Powder burning dirty. It seems to work best in overbored bottlenecked cartridges such as say a 264 Winchester magnum or cartrides along that line. Alot of the members that have used it think it needs a booster powder against the primer flashhole to get this course powder started, but I don't recommend that if you're not familar with duplexing powders. We also think that is needs pressure to work best also. That is a heavy bullet instead of a very light one, a firm crimp, or a filler...or all these things. One thing it's slow and gently gets a cast bullet started. I was surprised at the cartridges that I tried in it that I didn't think it would work good, for example the 8x56R in the STeyr M95 rifle. That cartride is very large, as is the caliber (it's called an 8mm but groove diameter run from .329 and up) and the case it basically a sharp taper from the case head up, in other words it doesn't have alot of necking to it. With that said the darn thing really likes the batch of 5010 I have. The smaller bores seem to like it too like 260 Rem, 243 Win, and 7x57 Mauser. I've used in all those mentions along with 8x57 Mauser, 30-06, 7.7 Jap, and 7.65 Argentine. I don't believe I would pick it for straigh walled cartridges like the 38-55 Win, 375 Win, 444 Marline, and the 45-70 Govt. The 5010 was used by the military in 50 caliber cartridges and I heard in some 20mm also. It's very very cheap and if you find a good use for it, you can't beat the price.

Joe

[floodgate]

Joe:

"I apologize to my fans for not having one ragged hole groups here with all three rifles...sorry guys."

Apologize?? Hey, it looks like what happened to those M39 groups was, they got tighter and tighter, down to one hole, then spread out on the back side a little bit.

Like a friend's 7,000 fps super wildcat .22/348 that shot dead flat to 350 yds, then actually went UP a bit at 400.

Just joshin' That's pretty impressive shooting!

Doug

[Bass Ackward]

I don't know.

Are you sure it was 300 yards? Guys from over on the river never could judge beer, wiskey, or range for crap. :grin:

[StarMetal]

Bass,

I have a steel tape measure that goes to 100 feet. Me and the son measured each leg of my shooting range off. That's max for me here. If some old exlawyer wouldn't have bought the field behind mine I might have been bumping 600 yards.

Joe

[StarMetal]

The round and rifle that amazed me the most is that doggone Yugo SKS. The more I shoot the 7.62x39 the more impressive it is. All those rifle are minute of deer at 300 yards, but I would imagine the 7.62x25 wouldn't have alot of steam left at that distance.

I did find that the more streamlined 314299 shot better at that distance then the 311284. The 7.62x39 might have shot as good as it did because that bullet is pretty streamlined too. Does Lee have any ballistic coefficient data on their rifle bullets?

I don't know whether to speed up or slow down any of the bullets for better results. I got the 7.62x54R all resized and in the tumbler cleaning for the next go around. The throat is so long on that Finn39 that loading the 314299 out to engrave the rifling doesn't leave alot of bullet in the case. I wish Lyman had made a 314284, that bullet shoots so good in tighter 30 bores that it might shoot just as well in the fat ones. As it is, it doesn't drop from the mould fat enough unless it's linotype and I don't want to shoot that.

Boy, I wish my Yugo 48B 98 Mauser was scoped, I'd throw it in the soup to see how it does as it does extremely well with peep sights. Another rifle I guess I could try is my Sako 7mm-08 Mannlicher carbine, it does super with the Lee 135 cast. Maybe I'll take that out next. It too wears a compact scope, but it's a Burris of much better quality.

Joe

[Nrut]

Hi Joe...Lee lists B.C. in their catalog for the C.E. Harrris C312-155-2R at .268....and .276 for the TL design....I am impressed with the accurracy of your SKS.....:)

[StarMetal]

Nrut,

Thanks for that info. I've done a bit of work on that Yuko, alot of it had nothing to do towards accuracy, such as removing the grenade launcher and sights, and removing the bayonet and it's lug. What I did do towards accuracy is I glass bedded part of the action. Tough rifle to do this on because for one there's not an awful lot of bedding area to work with and two, the action just doesn't set straight down into the stock, it's like a hook and tilt, lock, type set-up. I also recrowned the muzzle after I lathed off the grenade launchers threads. Then of course I scope it, but with a dedicated mount, not one that mounts on the receiver cover where it can move. I've also been playing alot with loads, and last but not least I turned the gas valve off and I cycle the action manually which I think may aid accuracy some is that there is absolutely no movement of the bolt until you crank it back to extract and eject the empty case. I think my next area will be to see what I can do to the trigger. I did take it apart and polish up the rough spots, but it has a tremendous amount of creep before let off.

Joe

[ron brooks]

Joe,

Thanks for the information. I'll get some before it runs out. Any suggestions on a good starting load for 5010 in a 30-06? Should a 170 grain bullet be correct or would it be better to use something more such as a 200 grain?

Thanks again,

Ron

[StarMetal]

Ron,

The load I was using in the 30-06 today was 52 grs of 5010 with the Lyman 311284 and the 314299. Both of those are over 200 grs, the 311284 being the heavier. There was still room in the case but I stuck with that load for awhile. The smaller cases like the 7.62x54R and the 8x56R, and 8x57 Mauser I go 50 and sometimes you have to use a drop tube to get it all in.

Joe

[ron brooks]

Thanks Joe,

I should be okay with starting about 45 grains with a 170 grain bullet, (311291 or 311041). I'll keep my eye out for a 200 grain or there abouts mold.

Thanks again,

Ron