Lee 459-405-HB 45-70 405 Grain Flat Nose

[ghh3rd]

I will have a Marlin 1895GBL soon and am looking for a mold. Seems (as usual) all of the Lees are made on the small side. I've heard that the Marlins like something around .430.

How fast can PB be pushed in this rifle without leading?

This one looks like a PB mold. Anyone familiar with this it, how it shoots, feeds in a Marlin, etc.?

Lyman 1-Cavity Bullet Mold #457193 45 Caliber (458-459 Diameter) 405 Grain Flat Nose
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=732718

Someone suggested the Lee HB .459 405 gr (lots cheaper) to start with. Isn't this boolit designed for BP? How would it do in a Marlin? No gas check, so how fast can it be pushed?

Thanks everyone

[1Papalote]

I have not tested the LEE 405HB past loads built with UNIQUE so my velocities are slow. I did see promising results but have yet to continue the experimenting. The base is hollow but not as hollow as one would think. I cast from WW+very little tin and diameters were good. For $20., the LEE mold is a great place to start!! My 340 and 405 PB LEE molds cast under 459

Papalote

[trap shooter]

go to a custom mold maker they can give you the dia you need lyman & saeco & rcbs cast small doughty enterprises & accurate molds &b rp custom tom ballard the man that made mine has retire david moss is the best mold maker i have every used i can't fined him anymore if your gun is a guide gun like mine you will need about .460 dia you need to get your mold to drop out at about .462

[rhead]

My Lee cast at a hair over .461. As to velocity I use 40 grains 0f 3031(1400 to 1450) with no leading and good accuracy. My shoulder got tired of being battered. If your recoil tolerance is greater than mine you could probably go a little further. Paper patch a pure lead slug and shoot it as fast as you wish and get some really impressive exit wounds.

[Larry Gibson]

ghh3rd

As already mentioned most lee moulds cast larger than the name designation implies. I've had several .45 cal lee moulds over the years and they all cast .460 or larger. For your Marlin 45-70 I would suggest you look at getting 2 moulds; one for practice and general shooting and one for hunting.

The Lee 457-340-F or the 457-405-F should do very nicely for practice and general shooting. Excellent accuracy up through 1500 or so fps can be expected with the right alloy. General shooting loads in the 1200 -1400 fps range will be more pleasant and adequate. The 340 gr will be a little easier in the recoil department and you would get more bullets per amount of alloy if either matter.

For hunting the RCBS 45-405-FN is an excellent bullet designed for the Marlin 45-70. It is a gas checked bullet so you can cast it of soft alloy and drive it hard for excellent accuracy, penetration and expansion. Terminal ballistics in deer, elk and bear are excellent. I suggest a 1-16 tin - lead alloy for best performance at 1600+ fps. However, if you like hard cast the it also is excellent for that and will give excellent accuracy at the highest safe velocity you'll like shooting in your Marlin.

Rather than trying to make one bullet be a "jack of all trades" I prefer to use the 2 different bullets mentioned for the two different types of shooting.

Larry Gibson

[35remington]

Not to directly contradict Larry, as those are excellent designs, but the Lees tend to cast just about what they say they do. That is, they cast at .457-.458" as ordered from their catalog for the plainbase bullet moulds.

Only the HB mould can be guaranteed, from them, to cast to the larger diameter. Their stated designation for the various moulds is a clue.

If you wish a mould to cast at .460" send money direct to Lee and they will select one for you that will be on the larger side of their tolerance range.

It may be that my moulds are more recent than Larry's, accounting for our differences in as cast diameter......but the Lees will cast an undersize bullet for a Marlin, save for that aforementioned hollowbase.

After all, they say they cast around .457-.458".......and they do, much to my regret. Thus my need to custom order.

[home in oz]

Mine shoots fine.

[joel0407]

Here is a couple of group buys I got on to for the exact same reason.

I have loaded the 459-405HB but was too worried about the nose being too rounded for tube mag loading and only single fired. All I have read has also indicated the 457 are too small for the Marlin, so I never purchased. Lee moulds cost us a bit more here Down Under.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=56245

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=66281

[ghh3rd]

Thanks everyone, great info. Anyone have experience with the Lee HB mold that I mentioned, and perhaps some load info that would push it along but avoid leading.

Randy

[Freightman]

I do not have a lever action 45/70 but in my Shiloh 45/70 I can push the 405 HB to 1900fps and no lead in my barrel, I also have a Rolling block that will do the same with a clean barrel after shooting 30/40 rounds and mine drops at .462 best mould I have for the 45/70
I size for my Shiloh .458 but load as dropped in the RB

[high standard 40]

I just bought one of the Lee 405 HB molds. Mine will drop bullets at .460 using wheel weight alloy. I do add a touch of tin for good fillout. Lubed and sized the weight is actually about 400 gr. with the mold I have. Have not had a chance to range test yet.

[joel0407]

I was droping them about .460 and then pan lubbing and sizing with Lee push through. I had about 1400 fps with no leading using ADI 2207. I will look up the load and post.

[snuffy]

mold 45 cal
go to a custom mold maker they can give you the dia you need lyman & saeco & rcbs cast small doughty enterprises & accurate molds &b rp custom tom ballard the man that made mine has retire david moss is the best mold maker i have every used i can't fined him anymore if your gun is a guide gun like mine you will need about .460 dia you need to get your mold to drop out at about .462

Man, that's one l-o-n-g sentence. Oh wait, it's not even a sentence, the first letter is not capitalized, and there's no period at the end.

[smilie=1:

The lee 405 HB that I have runs .461.5 as cast. That's when cast with 20-1 lead-tin. Toss the dice, order one, it may be what you need.

[kennisondan]

hi jack for definition.. what is a lee push through\
dk

[snuffy]

http://media.midwayusa.com/ProductImages/Medium/457341.jpg

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=457341


hi jack for definition.. what is a lee push through\
dk

It's a die that screws into a single stage press. The pusher punch takes the place of a shell holder. Pushes a boolit straight through and out the top, sizing it in the process.

[joel0407]

hi jack for definition.. what is a lee push through\
dk

Lee bullet sizer die. It sizer bullets.

It fits in RCBS + other reloading press. The press puhes the bullets through the die which is a specific size. The mold will cast O/S bullets and then the die sizes them down so they are all correct diameter.

You can purchase custom sizes which is probably fine if you live in the US but I just puraches a .457 and then had my smith open it to .459?? for me.

[joel0407]

Sorry for the double description.

I opened the page and didnt write the response for a while.

[pascalp]

My 459-405-HB give .464 as cast

http://pascalp2.free.fr/images/45-70/lee_459-405-hb_IMG_1800_cut_640.jpg

I use a custom .459 Lee sizer (not an expensive tool).

Works well with a Nef 45-70, wich is probably made with 458 barrel.

I've another "fat" mold, Lee 457-325-FN are .460

Finally, you will find my name in the Mihec 459122 group buy for a .460 PB

[dangerranger]

I have the 405 HB Lee mold. and cast a few of several alloys and finished up with 10lbs of 20/1 alloy. and first off let me say this mold sucks up the lead! 10lbs netted me just over 150 bullits! Im used to getting 4 to 600 pistol bullits from 10lbs. DR

[John Guedry]

I've got one. I like it.

[Swampman]

My 459-405-HB give .464 as cast

http://pascalp2.free.fr/images/45-70/lee_459-405-hb_IMG_1800_cut_640.jpg

These seem very round nosed for a tubular magazine. Are they ok?

[Swampman]

These seem very round nosed for a tubular magazine. Are they ok?

Round nose is a non-issue....

[MBTcustom]

The one thing I would say about the Marlin 45-70 is that it has a pretty long throat and a pretty short tolerance for long boolits.
What this means to a guy looking for a boolit mold is that you want something with as stubby a nose on it as possible, because you are going to pay a price of versatility with that ogive. If you get something that is comically stubby, then you've got options. I know that the lee boolits were too darn long on the nose, and if I seated anywhere close to the lands, the rifle could not feed.
On my rifle, there needs to be .180 worth of driving band sticking out of the brass in order to touch the rifling. Try that with any common boolit design, and you will have to single load it and fire before you can eject.
I think this one is close:
http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=46-405E-D.png

[Bigslug]

I am in the early stages with the Lee HB mold. Fired with toasty loads of Varget and Ben's Red lube out of my Dad's Baikal .45-70 double has not created any leading issues (a pass with a Bore Snake did the trick). The thing about this boolit is that in addition to the hollow base, it carries a ton of lube to help with gas sealing. If you get the alloy and diameter right (we haven't slugged that gun - just went with .459"), I don't foresee leading issues.

The real accuracy testing with it is going to have to wait until I can do the casting. Dad's hands don't let him hold a set of non-locking mold handles together all that well, so we had some diameter discrepancies with the as-issued Lee equipment. To be continued. . .

As mentioned, the Lee HB mold is twenty bucks (how far wrong can you go?) plus you have the authentic 1873 G.I. projectile if you ever branch out into Trapdoors and Sharps. BUT. . .If you want to play very good odds for accuracy, the RCBS 405 flat-nose gas check mold gets a HUGE amount of positive feedback around here. Each barrel of the Baikal is sub-MOA with it, and it's no slouch out of the 1895 either. I'm all for eliminating gas checks, but sometimes the results justify them.

[SgtDog0311]

I shot bullets I cast from this mold (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/363401/lee-1-cavity-bullet-mold-459-405-hb-45-70-government-459-diameter-405-grain-flat-nose-hollow-base) at six hundred yards for an incredible 5-round group (incredible for me anyway - I'd be ignorant of the group but for good spotter on the scope). Trouble is, that particular mold had been worked on and was no longer a hollow base; I'd still like to steal it from my buddy.

If anyone shooting this bullet at longer distances would report on it I'd sure like to hear about how it holds stability out at longer distance, say 500yds and beyond. Both my friend and I are considering the unaltered version.

[EDK]

I'd buy ANY mould and mic the boolits from it before buying a sizer. Shoot .462 down as cast and lubed with LLA or 45/45/10, etc or pan lubed. MARLINS are noted for liking fat boolits. A little reading here and over at marlinowners is worth your time.
I used the RCBS 300 grain gas check for years..not a lot of shooting...and then got a group buy 350 grain plain base. Used 2400 or 5744 so far. I favor the 350 grain area for a lever action for repeat shots; heavier for single shot rifles.

[SgtDog0311]

This is one I have that flys exceptionally well. http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=46-350B-D.png
I was having trouble hitting a 1000yd dinger with a Lee 500gr spire one day and tried this one. After clanging some steel I handed a handfull to three other shooters who all scored hits pretty quick. I was surprised because it doesn't look like a long range candidate. When I bought it I understood from the guy who recommeneded it that it was a Ranch Dog clone, but with full grease grooves.

[18Bravo]

Have both the Lee molds. 405gr/.457 and the 405HB /.459. The .457 doesn't work at all in my Rossi Rio Grande. Keyholes at 25 yards. The .459 shoots tight groups out to 50 yards in front of 28.5gr of H4198. Unlike others my .459 throws a little light averaging around 395gr with COWW and 2% tin. Like pascalp, I ordered a .459 sizing die from Lee. After PC and a quick squeeze it good to go. Crony reads around 1280fps.

[wquiles]

When I bought it I understood from the guy who recommeneded it that it was a Ranch Dog clone, but with full grease grooves.

Tom makes RD's design both ways: I shoot the 46-355RG which is the Ranch Dog boolit with the original TL grooves:
http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=46-355RG-D.png

http://m3coupe.com/Firearms/loads/45-70/490RBs/20150130_120941.jpg

[SgtDog0311]

William, Those look familiar. With either lube design I've found all of Michael's designs shoot well at moderate distances. This particular one surprised me when aired out.

This is about as good as it gets for me with iron sights at 50yds.

129474

[SgtDog0311]

ghh3rd, Did you pull the trigger yet or still pondering? I see the mold in the thread title is available at a good price - in fact I think I'm gonna buy one. Since no reports on long-distance performance are available I guess I'll have to see for myself.

My question for you was "are you looking at lee for price". The custom molds and even and RCBS or Lyman is gonna be more spendy. While Lee produces at a good price point, if $115 vs $35 is NOT an issue then Tom at Accurate molds and others open more options.

There are times I'd pic a Lee but for it's bevel base.

[murf205]

[QUOTE=ghh3rd;983162]I will have a Marlin 1895GBL soon and am looking for a mold. Seems (as usual) all of the Lees are made on the small side. I've heard that the Marlins like something around .430.

How fast can PB be pushed in this rifle without leading?

This one looks like a PB mold. Anyone familiar with this it, how it shoots, feeds in a Marlin, etc.?


I don't know how fast the Lee will run without leading in your rifle, but I have one of Toms molds from Accurate Molds (catalog #405D) in a plain base and in my Marlin CB it does 2000 fps with no leading. My mix is 95-5 lead to tin. I use Carnuba(spell) Red sized .429. My problem with the Lee molds, that I have used anyway, is that the crimp groove is too shallow. This really comes into play with tube mag hard recoiling rifles. The Accurate mold is more expensive than the Lee but you get what you pay for IMO.

[murf205]

[QUOTE=SgtDog0311;3121366]William, Those look familiar. With either lube design I've found all of Michael's designs shoot well at moderate distances. This particular one surprised me when aired out.

This is about as good as it gets for me with iron sights at 50yds.

129474

SgtDog0311, I wish I could see as well as you--reminds me of my bygone days--sniff, sniff

[wquiles]

William, Those look familiar. With either lube design I've found all of Michael's designs shoot well at moderate distances. This particular one surprised me when aired out.

This is about as good as it gets for me with iron sights at 50yds.


That is GREAT shooting there bud!

My eyes are older and tired, so now I need a scope, or at the very least a red dot to align stuff with the target :)

Will

[SgtDog0311]

Thanks Will, Murf, That's as good as it gets for me. Can't do any more load development beyond that because I'll never see the difference. I have to wear 2.5 magnifiers to read and the front blade is a challenge in a aperture (impossible in a buckhorn) but sometimes I get lucky with the light. And I've even had some luck wearing a #1 magnifying pair or reading glasses insofar as the front blade goes, but just when I think I've got something going it all changes. I'm 60 so been seeing the eyes deteriorate for 20 years now. Funny thing is I don't do much better with a scope. I think being able to see all the movement wigs me out and I lose confidence. I do use one hunting though -- minute of deer or elk is different than trying to fix on a little paper diamond.

Btw... for the OP or anyone else. This one really shoots well in my 45-70s. It's another made by Tom. And another I would expect to be good out to a 400yd dinger before maybe getting a little unstable. http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=46-400L-D.png

Here is a picture of both those side by side. The fellah who recommended it said it was a Pile Driver Jr. It shoots VERY well. Made my eyes look even better.

129525

[SgtDog0311]

Btw... here is another Castboolits thread on the bullet the op titled this thread with. Got a little more in depth info on that particular bullet and it's background: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?71289-Lee-405-HB-45-70

I posted the one photo over there that I WILL brag on, since it was the only "group" I've recorded at long distance. Light was good:-)

[murf205]

Without a scope??? You Da Man. My 280 Ackley that's bedded and never(when I do my part) shoots over 1" @ 100 wont do that @ 600. Very impressive.
Murf

[Elkins45]

Tom makes RD's design both ways: I shoot the 46-355RG which is the Ranch Dog boolit with the original TL grooves:
http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=46-355RG-D.png

http://m3coupe.com/Firearms/loads/45-70/490RBs/20150130_120941.jpg


What's that round punkinball looking bullet on the left?

[wquiles]

What's that round punkinball looking bullet on the left?


I basically swagged a .490" round ball through my 45-70 .460 sizing die:
http://m3coupe.com/Firearms/loads/45-70/490RBs/20141005_154820.jpg


http://m3coupe.com/Firearms/loads/45-70/490RBs/20141005_163217.jpg


Then load for OAL until they touch the lands:
http://m3coupe.com/Firearms/loads/45-70/490RBs/IMG_20141018_200057.jpg



Will

[Green Lizzard]

murf
my lee 405 hb is .462 as cast and shoots well in an 1895 marlin,handi rifle, and a buffalo classic either as cast or sized to .459. the odd thing about mine is that, new it weighed 375 grains and after removing the hollow base feature it weighs 390 grains

[SgtDog0311]

murf
my lee 405 hb is .462 as cast and shoots well in an 1895 marlin,handi rifle, and a buffalo classic either as cast or sized to .459. the odd thing about mine is that, new it weighed 375 grains and after removing the hollow base feature it weighs 390 grains

GL, you forgot to mention it shoots well in a Pedersoli Rolling Block:-)