Recommendations for 450 ak,please

[tommag]

I put a siamese mauser chambered in 450 alaskan on lay away until I can get over to pick it up. Does anyone have any experience with this cal.? I plan to use it for elk and am thinking 405 - 500 grs. I would probably load it up fairly heavy for elk and down quite a ways for deer. I won't know the twist rate or be able to slug it until I get it home. I was shopping for a 45/70 or 450 marlin, but the mauser felt right when I handled it. I should have picked it up then, but only made up my mind 300 miles down the road, hence the lay away.
I found a used set of dies locally, but haven't a clue what molds to buy, although the lee 500 gr gc mold looks good at $20. What lube should I try? Several references I've found show the 450 AK between the 1895 45/70 and the 458 win mag for velocity.
The budget is stretched pretty tight at the moment, so maybe for now I should just buy a couple of different condoms and try those for this season?
Thanks in advance. Tom
Bullshop, do you sell sample packs with several different boolits to try?

[Larry Gibson]

I put a siamese mauser chambered in 450 alaskan on lay away until I can get over to pick it up. Does anyone have any experience with this cal.? I plan to use it for elk and am thinking 405 - 500 grs. I would probably load it up fairly heavy for elk and down quite a ways for deer. I won't know the twist rate or be able to slug it until I get it home. I was shopping for a 45/70 or 450 marlin, but the mauser felt right when I handled it. I should have picked it up then, but only made up my mind 300 miles down the road, hence the lay away.
I found a used set of dies locally, but haven't a clue what molds to buy, although the lee 500 gr gc mold looks good at $20. What lube should I try? Several references I've found show the 450 AK between the 1895 45/70 and the 458 win mag for velocity.
The budget is stretched pretty tight at the moment, so maybe for now I should just buy a couple of different condoms and try those for this season?
Thanks in advance. Tom

I've a Siamese mauser I rebuilt into a 450-400-70 (ok, it's really a 45-70). I don't recall off the top of my head which case is used for the 450 Alaskan (?). I really like the Lee 500 gr GCFP and the Lyman 458483 GC moulds. They do nicely for elephant, rhino, lion and of course cape buffalo ( I do have my hallucinations). I might be tempted to use a lighter 350 gr or so GCFP bullet for lessor game though.

I can push both cast bullets to 2000-2100 fps safely and I push a 400 gr Barnes SP(O) at 2300 fps. For small game and grouse I shoot a 275 gr Rapine cast at 1050 fps. Below is a picture of the two "heavy" hitters sitting on the rifle. Once I figure out the case differences I can probably be more helpful with potential loads.

Larry Gibson

[tommag]

Larry, the 450 AK is the 348 win case blown out with the shoulder moved forward. A book I read says 97 grs water capacity (full to the top, I think).
Most of what I've read suggets 3031 for powder. I just bought 2 kegs of surplus IMR4895, I wonder if that would be close enough to 3031 to warrant a try?

[Bullshop]

There is a book available from Wolf publishing " Wildcat Cartridges" with articles on the 450Ak. and the 50 Ak.
BIC/BS

[drinks]

IMR 4895 is my big, heavy bullet powder of choice.
In .45-70, I use a full case, more or less, 55gr with a 405 cast bullet, with LBT soft blue or Lar's red for almost 2000fps.
About 3 or 4 of those are enough for one session. ;D

[tommag]

Bullshop, I have that book on wildcats, it's where I got most of the info I have.
The part about the 50 Ak penetrating stem to stern sounds really good! I'll bet it hurts about equal on both ends, though.
Drinks, it sounds like IMR4895 ought to be right on target, so to speak.

[Bullshop]

tommag
Yea did you see what they used for a bullet. They used pulled steel core bullets from a 50 bmg cut in half and used the base half reversed as a truncated cone. Kinda like a Speer african grand slam. Might penitrate the chest cavity of a v-8.
I have had both chamberings on the siamese 450 and 50. My most energetic load in the 50 pushes a 680gn NEI DD to 1850 fps. Works great for splitting those realy tough knotty chunks of fire wood.
I put a 180 gn from an 06 in a wood block about 14" in diameter and it wiggled a bit but when I hit it with the 50/680 it flipped end over end.
Of all the rifles I had made in both chamberings I kept one. It was my favorite, an 1886 win in 50/2.2 (50 AK). I cant load it as stout as the mauser but its more than plenty. My working load shoots a 510gn wfn at 1750 fps. Takes the fight outa things quick!
I have an old friend here that was stationed here at Ft Greeley with Charley Askins. They did a trade and he has the 71 win 450 Ak. that Charley had converted and wrote some articles about. He loaned me the rifle for about two years. Said take it for as long as you want but he would not sell it. If I did some diggin I might come up with the load data I worked up for it.
The siamese conversions are fun but as a real stopping rifle I never could trust the big rimmed cases to feed from a bolt gun. If you happen to let a rim on top of the stack get behind one under you have a jam. It took alot of hand fitting but my 86 will feed empty cases. It has a full length mag tube so holds alot of ammo if needed.
I also had a couple 45/70's done on the siamese. If you look at I think the old #10 Speer book they show 62gn Re# 7 with thier 400gn bullet for like 2200 fps. I was shooting that load with very mild pressure signs. A friend called the tec at Lewiston as at the time I was just over the hill in the Bitter Root valley and he said the data was ended because they could no longer tollerate the recoil and none of the loads listed exceeded 40,000 psi.
Oh my my enough ramblin, I gotta go.
BIC/BS