458 Win Mag & cast

[Tatume]

Hello Folks,

Does anybody have any experience running the 458 Win Mag at about 1800 fps with 350 gr cast bullets?

Take care, Tom

[waksupi]

I've shot some 500 gr. boolits in mine. Don't know the velocity, but it takes fourty seven seconds for my teeth to stop vibrating after I shoot it.

[CJR]

I shoot a 458 Win Mag with 500gr CB (i.e. Lee FP GC and Lyman 457406 RN GC). At first, I had accuracy problems and then read an article in Handloader years ago. What I needed to do was use a Cream Of Wheat filler on top of the powder. The bullet was lubed with the NRA beeswax/Alox 2138F formula. That kept the barrel clean and groups at 100 yds was pretty decent and consistent with iron sights. I have a number of heavy recoiling rifles and got tired of black and blue shoulders. Now I happily own a Caldwell Lead Sled DFT. Life is good! With 50-75 Lbs of lead shot bags on the Caldwell, I can comfortably shoot all day. This is a brutal rifle to shoot and "wakes up" everyone at the range. I'm now working with some other Mags so It's been a year since I fired it. I think it needs to be "aired-out" soon.

Best regards,

CJR

[onondaga]

Tom, It is unlikely you will get a 350 gr cast bullet at 1800 fps in the 458 Win Mag without using a filler. That is a very reduced load for the 458 and the empty space in the case from the small charge will cause hang-fires, squibs and detonation muzzle flash. I can put you in the ballpark with one of my pet loads:


Bullet Lee 457-340-F, cast wheel-weight lead
Bullet Weight 340 grs
Powder Alliant Reloder 7
Powder Weight 55.1 grs
Primer CCI 200
Brass Make Winchester
Barrel Length 24 (inches)
C.O.L 3.030 (inches)
Crimp: full crimp with Lee Factory Crimp Die
Velocity 2025 fps
Group 100 yds 1.3 (inches)
Gun Info Colt Sauer Grand African
Comment filler-1.9cc Precision's Spherical Buffer. Mild, flat shooting deer load.

I have since changed to BPI Original filler from Midway for this load as it weighs half as much as the PRPSB filler The difference is more than 10 grains in weight and the load with a 10 grain heavier bullet will be safe.

You are not any where near a pressure problem as 70 grains of Rel 7 will push a 400 gr Swift A frame 2325 fps and you are using a much lighter bullet with filler adding about 10-15 grains to the bullet weight.
You can use Lee measure scoops to pour filler into charged cases. I use a Lyman 55 for this. . After charging with powder add the BPI level to the case mouth edge or within 3/16th inch, then seat the bullet. The BPI is fluffy and will compress when you seat the bullet. If you are seating your bullets really deep you may have to use less filler or you will bulge cases. That is why a good measurement of the filler is important. When I find the volume that works I weigh it on a powder scale and then set my Lyman 55 to throw that weight of BPI Filler over the powder. Scoops will work fine if that is all you have but velocity will vary more.
Link to BPI Original Filler:
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=695248

NOTE: The light charge of Rel 7 and your 350 gr bullet will only be safe with the filler giving you a capacity or slightly compressed load. Without the filler you will get hang fires, squibs and muzzle detonation flashes. Do not try this load without the exact BPI filler listed.

Good Luck,
Gary

[Tatume]

Hi Fellows,

Thank you all for your helpful responses. It looks like I'm going to have to use a filler. I'll let you know how it works out.

Take care, Tom

[bigted]

naaaa dont think the filler is absolutly nessary. i load 40 gr of rl7 behind a 400 gr boolit for approx 1600 fps and i cloverlief them all day long at 50 yds. no filler in my loads but maybe the 350's need some fill...never loaded this lite for my 458wm

45/70 loads now i load 350 jacketed to about the same vel but thats another storie. one of these just went quartering thru a cow moose 2 days ago and the wound was fatal within 7 steps. but thats not cast so i wont mention it here...lol

[onondaga]

bigted: heavier bullets and heavy crimping will lessen ignition problems in .458 Win Mag reduced loads with REL-7. A call to Alliant Powder tech dept. verified that to me years ago when I started experimenting with reduced loads for the .458. I can tell you what happened in my Colt Sauer Grand African .458 without filler in 40 test rounds with the 55.1 gr. REL-7 and 340 gr cast bullet. Eleven of forty malfunctioned. They were misfires, hang fires, detonations and 2 of the 11 were squibs where the bullet went about 1 foot down the bore and stayed there with the unburned powder until I rammed the bullets out with a thick fiberglass cleaning rod. I have fired over 1200 rounds with this bullet and filler (BPI and PRPSB) in reduced loads and have zero malfunctions out of those 1200 rounds with filler.
Yes, I also wanted a reduced load with no filler that has power for dear and bear. If you really want a reduced load with no filler in the .458 WM, Trail Boss powder will work, but velocities are much lower and trajectory is poor for hunting in my opinion. The upside with Trail Boss is that you really get a lot more shots per pound, so you can play more for less money.

[bigted]

rite on. guess ive never tryed this little of a boolit in my 458. i use the 45/90 loads for my 458 as the cart are so close in size and length. my experience is good and the preassure is always low as you can imagine. my love for the 45 cal has been going for years and this is the first ive had a 458 to play with. the tremendous power in this catr is nuneeded for my uses however i like a bolt gun that readilly takes a scope and is in my fav 45 cal. i mention the 45/70 just as a side thing as the soninlaw just got his cow a couple days ago with it. these heavy wide boolits really do their job even at slow speeds. the accuracy is mostly outstanding and the recoil for these loads inspire one to shoot well with the practice your shoulder will withstand.

thanks for this post fellas. this is very interesting for me as im relatively new to the 458 and lite loads. only beed at it for a short time but really like it

[ricksplace]

Hi Bigted.

I have been playing with 458 with cast for a while now. I have had good success with a 500gr gc (lee) with 45 gr of 4198. No hang fires, no wads. Chrono at 1725. For a light bullet, I use RCBS 300gr gc with 21 gr of Unique. I haven`t chronographed this load yet, but I expect it is running about 1500 fps. Unique is not position sensitive. I don`t use a wad or filler with this load and I get about 2moa at 100 meters. All of my boolits are cast of air cooled wheel weights sized to .4595.

I seat the 300 gr out with a lube groove showing, so the first driving band just touches the rifling. Nice light load with very little recoil. Still hits like a freight train.

Our range has a 2`thick armour plate for a gong at 100 meters that sits on a steel stand. The whole thing weighs about 80 lbs. Guys shoot it with 308`s etc, and it makes a nice clang. When I hit it with the 500 gr cast, it either spins the whole thing around or knocks it over.

I know there are many folks here who dislike muzzle brakes, but I have them on my 375 H&H, 416 Rem, and 458. I built my 458 on a 98 mauser, and it only weighs about 8 lbs. Guys want to shoot it without the brake with full house loads (macho...). Without the brake, it has shattered two stocks, including one synthetic! I don`t let anybody shoot it without the brake anymore!

[Just Duke]

Cool.

[bigted]

Rick,,,thanks for the post. as i said erlier,,,i use the 45/90 data for my lite load cb loads. that is where i got the 40 gr rl-7 load behind the 400 gr boolit. this load is such a tack driver i can clover it everytime with my cz 458. only drawback is the feeding with the dern thing. it needs some work on the rails i think but this isnt the place for that...the load is tremendous and i like the way it hits stuff. its like getting run over with a mack truck and the recoil in my rifle is hardly. very comfy to shoot unlike the factory like loads....ouch!!!

[Just Duke]

Tom, It is unlikely you will get a 350 gr cast bullet at 1800 fps in the 458 Win Mag without using a filler. That is a very reduced load for the 458 and the empty space in the case from the small charge will cause hang-fires, squibs and detonation muzzle flash. I can put you in the ballpark with one of my pet loads:


Bullet Lee 457-340-F, cast wheel-weight lead
Bullet Weight 340 grs
Powder Alliant Reloder 7
Powder Weight 55.1 grs
Primer CCI 200
Brass Make Winchester
Barrel Length 24 (inches)
C.O.L 3.030 (inches)
Crimp: full crimp with Lee Factory Crimp Die
Velocity 2025 fps
Group 100 yds 1.3 (inches)
Gun Info Colt Sauer Grand African
Comment filler-1.9cc Precision's Spherical Buffer. Mild, flat shooting deer load.

I have since changed to BPI Original filler from Midway for this load as it weighs half as much as the PRPSB filler The difference is more than 10 grains in weight and the load with a 10 grain heavier bullet will be safe.

You are not any where near a pressure problem as 70 grains of Rel 7 will push a 400 gr Swift A frame 2325 fps and you are using a much lighter bullet with filler adding about 10-15 grains to the bullet weight.
You can use Lee measure scoops to pour filler into charged cases. I use a Lyman 55 for this. . After charging with powder add the BPI level to the case mouth edge or within 3/16th inch, then seat the bullet. The BPI is fluffy and will compress when you seat the bullet. If you are seating your bullets really deep you may have to use less filler or you will bulge cases. That is why a good measurement of the filler is important. When I find the volume that works I weigh it on a powder scale and then set my Lyman 55 to throw that weight of BPI Filler over the powder. Scoops will work fine if that is all you have but velocity will vary more.
Link to BPI Original Filler:
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=695248

NOTE: The light charge of Rel 7 and your 350 gr bullet will only be safe with the filler giving you a capacity or slightly compressed load. Without the filler you will get hang fires, squibs and muzzle detonation flashes. Do not try this load without the exact BPI filler listed.

Good Luck,
Gary

I'm going to try this. :cbpour:

[wiljen]

I tried RL-7 and found it real spiky with very large SDs in this application in the 458 Lott and quickly quit using it. With light boolits in the big 458s, I've settled on IMR 3031 or 4895 as the both provide excellent case fill, good ignition, and 1800 fps with 300-350 gr slugs. Whats more, neither really requires a Magnum primer although I tend to use them if cold weather use is a possibility.

[94Doug]

I'm with you Wil. I use 3031 in both the Lott and WinMag, no fillers, regular primers. I have used 4759 for lighter loads, and even trail boss. Same with heavy boolits.

Doug

[Just Duke]

Hi Bigted.

I have been playing with 458 with cast for a while now. I have had good success with a 500gr gc (lee) with 45 gr of 4198. No hang fires, no wads. Chrono at 1725.



I have some loaded with 40 grains. Will this rattle my teeth? Maybe running 1400 fps?

[Just Duke]

Btt .....

[clintsfolly]

Your 40gr load will be like 12ga duck loads! I have a 458AccRel (458Lott size case) 9lbs with scope a eye opener is 75gr aa2230 and 350Cast. Clint