NOE 311284 HP'd by Erik

[Ben]

Today, my NOE 311284 2 cav. came home from a trip to Erik for HP work ( less than 7 working days, turn around time ). As usual, I am thrilled with the quality of Erik's work ! !

I ask Erik for a variety of HP pins and got them. I'm after white-tailed deer this fall with my 30 - 06 . My alloy is air cooled wheel weights, My speed will be around 1650 - 1750 fps.

Care to vote on a HP pin design for the above described purpose ?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/NOE%20311284%20HP%20Work%20Completed/PICT0007-15.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/NOE%20311284%20HP%20Work%20Completed/PICT0002-39.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/NOE%20311284%20HP%20Work%20Completed/PICT0003-39.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/NOE%20311284%20HP%20Work%20Completed/PICT0004-21.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/NOE%20311284%20HP%20Work%20Completed/PICT0005-20.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/NOE%20311284%20HP%20Work%20Completed/PICT0006-11.jpg

[kbstenberg]

If you don't mind. What was the price for H.P.ing an your pins?
kevin

[Ben]

The information below is " verbatim " from Erik's Web site :

Standard hollow point modifications
$35.00 each Standard hollow-point conversion examples

Standard hollow point modifications are carefully centered and aligned, drilled undersize, and finish reamed to provide a properly centered slip fit of the precision pin and knob assembly.

Includes: knob assembly fitted with one pin profile of your choice. (Standard pin sizes up to .250". Larger pin sizes and more radical alterations available at additional cost.)
________________________________________

Extra / Alternate single tip pin for use in Standard hollow point knob assembly
$7.50 each

Extra / Alternate pins to fit the standard handle assembly for a different cavity size or profile, cup point, or for casting with a flat point as if unmodified. For sizes up to .250" diameter. (Not applicable for original Lyman / Ideal style pins.)

[HollowPoint]

Ben:

I own a couple of molds that Eric has worked on. One is a thirty caliber and the other is a 22 caliber.

With your air-cooled wheel weight bullets and a white-tail hunt to look forward to I'd go with the Cup-Pointed bullets myself but, I'm sure anyone of those selections will do just fine.

HollowPoint

[madsenshooter]

My vote is D, quick expansion for shock, but plenty of weight left in the shank should the petals break off, for continued penetration. Since you have these good pics up, something I've noted with my 311284 by NOE is that the area where the vent lines are vertical casts smaller. The nose is .302, tapers down where the vents are vertical, then back up to .302 ahead of the crimp groove. Surely it isn't going to harm anything, just something I've noted. Bambi isn't going to like these at all! I've only shot a few of these bullets, started at 2000fps from my Krag. At 100yds they left a pretty big hole in a slightly damp clay bank, w/o a hollow point.

[Blammer]

Cup point or Pin D, in that order. In my limited exp the cup point is almost the best of both worlds for HP and meplat.

It acts like a meplat and allows a small amound of opening up like a HP while retaining wt.

[Ben]

This is interesting, keep it coming.

Do you figure " B " is too much of a good thing ? ?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/NOE%20311284%20HP%20Work%20Completed/PICT0004-21.jpg

Thanks,

Ben

[Doby45]

I say the cup point also. I think pin B would expand so fast and the metal would be so thin that it could not do much more than peel off to the bottom of the hole and you are basically left with a little slug. :)

[Piedmont]

I would use A or D. You'll blow the point off and still shoot through him. That would really hurt and still leave a blood trail.

[Buckshot]

................What I like to do with a long boolit design like that is to 'step' the pin OD down. Start out with full pin OD like 'D' for a depth of maybe 0.100" then step it to an OD of about half that and taper it to the final depth. I don't know if Eric's setup allows for adjustable pin depth, but if it does you could basically do that with 'B' by setting it deeper. Overall depth might be more then you want, but I'm sure you plan on a bit of testing before shooting Bambi's grandpa with it, so you'd know. Honestly the smaller the boolit (OD) the fewer options you have in HP design.

...............Buckshot

[Bass Ackward]

The reality is that they all will work, you will simply have different working ranges.

I'd use " C " myself. The reason is I have experience to know that with ACWW, min distance is about 40 yards and max is around 130. I'd have to test all those others except for maybe the cup point that would have enough weight to act the same as the FP.

Hollow pointing is going to move both distances out unless you harden. So it really comes down to what you need in your area.

[Ben]

Rick :

I have some blanks for this one also. I'll give your suggestions a try.

Yes, there will be a bit of testing for both penetration and expansion before these are used on game.

Many thanks,

Ben

[Blammer]

With the B pin, you'll have to push through size it, you try to size it in a lyman 450 and you'll "fatten" the nose while sizing/checking/lubing it.

[94Doug]

Would some of the deeper HP's work better with a 50/50 mix, something softer? As to the deforming of the boolit in the sizer, can a tp be made with the hp pin in it to prevent that?

Doug

[Ben]

Doug :

Yes, I'd think that a top punch could be made to fit.

Ben

[AnthonyB]

Ben:
My youngest son took a mature doe two years ago in NY with an RCBS 30-180 HP sample given by Beagle. It used a smaller OD than pin D but went to about the same depth. Muzzle velocity was a little over 1800 fps, and he got complete broadside penetration on a lung shot at about 25 yards. My copy of that one and an RCBS 35-200 left for Buckshot's attention yesterday. Tony

[Ben]

Tony :

Would love to see some pics when your molds get back in your hands.

Take a look at this link on my RCBS , .35 cal. 200 gr. HP mold project :

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=82735

Good luck with your HP project.

Rick will do you a fine job !

Ben

[Ben]

I got out early this a.m. and fired up my Lee 20 pound ladle pot.

I decided to make my 1st attempts at casting with my ( new to me ) Erik modified , NOE 311284 double cav. mold with HP Pin configuration " B ".

Last night I removed a few thousandth's from the HP pin and polished it up. Might be just the ticket ? ?
Of course , I plan to do quite a bit of testing for expansion and penetration before I fire the bullet at a Whitetail.

The bullet without the g/c or lube is weighing in at 204 grs. I figure this one will be bad news for Whitetails out of my 30 - 06 !


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/NOE%20311284%20HP%20Work%20Completed/PICT0004-21.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/NOE%20311284%20HP%20Work%20Completed/DSCN0920.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/NOE%20311284%20HP%20Work%20Completed/DSCN0915.jpg

These are the HP pins that I cast with this a.m. The lower one is " B ".
I plan to shoot these bullets into some test medium and evaluate their penetration
and expansion properties :

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/NOE%20311284%20HP%20Work%20Completed/PICT0002.jpg

[Doby45]

Dang Ben, I would like to try a few of those in my 308, sexy is an understatement..

[Ben]

Doby45 :

You can see the drive bands polished. I've pushed the bullet through a .310 Lee Push thru ( nose 1st ) sizer ( one that I honed out from .309 Lee factory sizer die ) .

The bullets are nice and round to within .0002 " when they come out of the sizer.
Can't wait to try a few of these out.

Ben

[Doby45]

Dang now I gotta get me one, Thanks.. I am still waiting on my 3 MiHecs

[AnthonyB]

Ben:
Great thread on the 35-200 conversion, and I can't believe I missed that one when it first came out. I have the NOE 3589 with a HP cavity, and Rick converted a Lyman 358318 for me. I haven't had much luck with the 3589 in the Whelen (16 twist Remington) but it has been great in the 356 Winchester. I plan to test the 358318 in the Whelen this fall.
I'll definitely send pictures when the moulds get back - Rick has always exceeded expectations in every way!
Tony

[Ben]

Thanks Tony

Yes, keep me up to the minute with some photos of your mold, we'd all like to see them.

Best,

Ben

[Doby45]

Thanks to you Ben I just ordered a 2 cavity NOE mold just like yours. :)

[Ben]

See ......you're helping out the economy. That's great !

[Larry Gibson]

Ben

Based on my experience with HPs in 311041, 311299 and 323471 Pin D in that 311284 cast of WW/lead at 50/50 will give excellent results on deer in your target velocity range. Expansion will be better tha straight WWs with the expansion petals not shearing off as easily. Pin B is a little too long as I've found a HP that is only about 2/3 the length of the nose works best. Both will certainly kill a deer though. Just my thoughts.

Larry Gibson

[Ben]

Larry ,

I certainly respect your opinion.
I think you are right on target with your views and comments !

Ben

[madsenshooter]

Ben, I just got some range time with this bullet out of my Krag today. A caseful of WC860 produced an avg velocity of 1807fps and a SD of 21. I believe I used Rem 9 1/2M and will try to get the SD down by using WLRM primer next go round. Accuracy was nearly on par with some Nosler 168s I had loaded to 2000fps! I was fireforming 303 Brit brass and was quite surprised by the accuracy. Judging by the reaction of a 10", 1/2" thick steel plate, if you hit a deer with any of your bullets, it's going down! If the chain holding the steel plate was a bit longer I do believe it would have wrapped over the crossbar above. This was at 100yds. Used to hitting the plates with 123gr bullets at 2400fps and seeing them barely move, I was very impressed. Whop! Forgot to mention I was using Blammer's checks, Hornady's shaved and the bullets weren't too accurate after that.

[Ben]

madsenshooter:

Thanks for the range report. Yes, they certainly should be some hard hitting cast loads.

White tail deer beware........! This is with HP pin " B ", Lee Nose 1st sizer, sized to .310 " with Ameri-max .014 thickness g/c :

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/PICT0004-21.jpg

Ben

[hollow-point]

love those hollow-points. keep them coming.