First M91/30

[Luper]

I'm going to Cabela's this weekend to buy my first M91/30 (and first rifle) and I had a few questions. For example, "How do you tell if it's a good rifle or not?" I know you can check for a hex receiver but are there any other things that don't require to much handling? Also, what is it that I need to keep it clean? I know you need a bore guide, a bronze brush, solvent, and a rifle vise. Is there anything else
I already have a steel 30 caliber rod can I use that or should I get a carbonfiber or coated rod? This is just a beater gun so i don't need it to be incredibly accurate just to be able to hit the target. Thanks in advance.

[Dutchman]

The questions you ask seem to suggest (loudly) that you have little experience. That's not a crime and it's a good thing you ask.

A steel .30 caliber cleaning rod is fine. Just keep it wiped off so there is no debris or junk on it that can act as an abrasive rubbing on the tender parts of the rifle. Hoppe's No.9 bore solvent, cotton patches, some kind of refined gun oil and some kind of gun grease.

I want you to go over here and READ READ READ all there is to READ!

http://www.surplusrifle.com/russianmosin189130/index.asp

http://www.surplusrifle.com/finnishmosin/boltdisassembly/index.asp

http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting2005/mosinnaganttrigger/index.asp

http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting/189130/index.asp

There are multiple pages dealing with the Mosin-Nagant rifles. Read them all. Then come back when you have questions.

Dutch

[Luper]

Thank you. I have little experience with rifles, I've always shot shotguns.

[dualsport]

Major point: If you shoot surplus ammo in it you need to pour some hot water down the barrel. It's easy. The primers have corrosive compounds that don't dissolve in solvent, just water. Nothing fancy needed. I take mine out on the back porch and pour it in the chamber from the open action end, let it run out the muzzle. Hot tap water is all you need. Then clean as you would any other rifle. Don't get carried away with 'stuff', you probably don't need a rifle vise. I'd do the hot water trick with just about any 7.62x54r ammo just to be sure. They're great rifles to play with and learn on. If you know someone who has shot a lot of rifles maybe you can get them to go with you first time out. The safeties are a pain, better to not chamber a round til you're ready to shoot. Let us know what you get.

[JeffinNZ]

www.7.62x54r.net

[Buckshot]

.............Luper, just a broad bit of general info. Buying a new, or old used gun (rifle/pistol/revolver) is an excersize in faith as to how they'll shoot :-) Generally most new guns will do well. Lots of old guns will do well enough. I'm sure lots of folks have had nice new guns that wouldn't shoot for beans, and a large number with milsurps that have been through a war or two, and maybe several smaller fracases that are magical.

I have 3 Russian M91/30's and a Russian M44. All 4 of them are different from each other with what they do the best with. When you get it, clean the bore well. Also field strip it and clean it up. Check to make sure the long slender stock isn't binding that long slender barrel, and that the action is bedded well in the stock. Slug the barrel if you intend to shoot cast. Most importantly, have fun with it.

..............Buckshot

[damron g]

Bring your .30 rod and some patches (a few wet ones in a zip lock is handy for a really oily bore) and punch the bore.Look from the front and the rear (with the bolt out) held up to a moderately bright light to see if the rifling is decent and strong.Stay away from a bore with very dark grooves,but a bit of light dulling will be OK.Check the muzzle to see if the rifling goes to the end.Some are pretty wallowed from rod wear and may not shoot very well until cleaned up(cut off and re crowned).If it has muzzle with no rifling until about 1/2" down it has been counter bored to clean up the rod wear.I have one that shoots fine this way,but some stay away from them.My Hex rifles shoot no better than my later guns.they just seem to be better finished and are prettier to look at.A good bore rifle as is should shoot 2-3 inches at 100 to start with cast loads.A bit of tinkering will get you closer to 2" and under.

Groups below(4 bulls) with a scoped 91-30 last weekend.Load was 14.0 of Trail Boss and the Ed Harris 155g 7.62 x 39 bullet @ 100 yards.

Target with 2 bulls shot with same load and 1934 "hex" with iron sights @ 100.

both guns in original wood and not altered except for added the scope and bending bolt of one of them.




George

[Multigunner]

I'm going to Cabela's this weekend to buy my first M91/30 (and first rifle) and I had a few questions. For example, "How do you tell if it's a good rifle or not?" I know you can check for a hex receiver but are there any other things that don't require to much handling? Also, what is it that I need to keep it clean? I know you need a bore guide, a bronze brush, solvent, and a rifle vise. Is there anything else
I already have a steel 30 caliber rod can I use that or should I get a carbonfiber or coated rod? This is just a beater gun so i don't need it to be incredibly accurate just to be able to hit the target. Thanks in advance.

The problems of bore damage by steel rods were due to two major causes. First poorly trained soldiers cleaning from the muzzle would bang the end of the rod against the breechface which caused the center of the rod to vibrate against the land pecking them down a bit at every stroke.
Damage from this cause was commonly found in Mosin Nagant barrels of WW1 vintage and earlier. Russian and Eastern European Peasant soldiers had little experiance of firearms other than muzzle loaders and were used to cleaning from the muzzle.
I've heard this sort of damage was often found in Japanese (at least of the WW1 and earlier era) and Chinese rifles as well.

The second and more common cause was letting the loop or jag of an unguided military issue steel rod , inserted from the breech , exit the muzzle without guiding it out by hand to avoid the rod banging againsts the lands and pecking them down, or grind the usually still roughly turned surface of the rod against the lands wearing them down.

Pull through cords were intended to prevent this sort of damage but often caused problems of their own, like "Cord Worn" muzzles and Chambers, due to troops not being careful to avoid pulling the often gritty cord against the sides when pulling it through.

Coated rods and aluminum rods aren't as likely to batter down the lands but their softer surfaces can pick up and hold grit that if unguided ,or if the rod has even a slight bend, can rub against the lands almost as badly as a pull through cord.

A perfectly straight and polished smooth steel rod if guided carefully is as safe as any.

The only time I use a pull through in the field is when I make a disposable one from nylon cord and use it only once so it won't carry grit from previous cleanings.
I pull through a solvent soaked patch and let the solvent go to work, then clean properly with a rod when I get home.

I keep a clearing rod under the butt trap. Its made from discarded M16 cleaning rod sections highly polished and the edges at the joints radiused and polished.
This would only be used to clear debris from a blocked bore, should a rifle be dropped or a mud dauber set up shop overnight, to allow using a pull through to clean it.

[Luper]

Thanks guys for all the advice. I couldn't check the rifling there do to the bolt being cable tied closed. However when I got home the rifling was pristine, it ran all the way to the end of the barrel and I couldn't see any pitting. My rifle has all the original metal and the were hardly any scuffs on the stock and barrel.

[damron g]

Thanks guys for all the advice. I couldn't check the rifling there do to the bolt being cable tied closed. However when I got home the rifling was pristine, it ran all the way to the end of the barrel and I couldn't see any pitting. My rifle has all the original metal and the were hardly any scuffs on the stock and barrel.

Sounds like you got a good one.I punched the bores of three $99.00 "Big 5" specials guns today and all bores were pretty poor and the counter bores were crooked as well.The receivers were also roughly belt sanded/filed ? so bad you could barley read the markings.


have fun with your new toy.

George

[roverboy]

Yeah some of'em look rough. I got a '36 Tula that has a good bore and shoots great. But I had a '43 Izhvesk that looked like they milled out the reciever with a chisel. I sold it and the guy who bought it loved it.

[Linstrum]

Check to see if your rifle is a Finn rebuild, Finland also used the Mosin-Nagant until not too long ago. Finn rifles usually have a large "SA" inside a rectangular box stamped on the top of the barrel behind the rear sight. The accuracy of Finn rifles is far superior to the Russian rifles unless ruined with corrosive ammo used for test firing after importing to the US. Finland has used non-corrosive ammo for about 80 years, so when they come straight from there they are in good shape.

As was already mentioned, if you use the inexpensive Communist Bloc ammunition, YOU MUST WASH WITH HOT WATER IMMEDIATELY when you get home, do not put it off overnight or your bore will be rusty! I can't emphasize enough on washing, wiping dry, and then oiling the bore to protect your barrel. Like was already said, oil and bore solvent WILL NOT get the corrosive salts out, only water will work. I personally shoot only my hand loads in my Mosin-Nagants so I don't need to water wash out the barrels.

I have both Russian and Finland 91/30s and my Russian version is an excellent, accurate shooter.


rl833

[NuJudge]

Major point: If you shoot surplus ammo in it you need to pour some hot water down the barrel. It's easy. The primers have corrosive compounds that don't dissolve in solvent, just water. Nothing fancy needed. I take mine out on the back porch and pour it in the chamber from the open action end, let it run out the muzzle. Hot tap water is all you need. Then clean as you would any other rifle.

If you are going to do it this way, disassemble the rifle first. If not willing to disassemble, get a "transmission fluid funnel," a funnel with a long tube attached, and have the tube run into the chamber. Run the hot water slow, so it does not back up into the action. Use a patch with hot water on a rod to get the chamber.

Dry the bore and chamber with patches, and oil anywhere hot water may have gone.

[okksu]

Might also visit: http://russian-mosin-nagant.com/forum/index.php
Lots of collective Mosin Nagant knowledge there. Caution: Site policy is very strongly preservationist to maintaining original condition, very anti permanent alterations, such as reciever drilling and tapping, bolt bending, "re-snipering" ex snipers, stock refinishing, etc.. Otherwise though, very helpful folks.