wc 860 duplex in 45-70

[flounderman]

I was told someone was using wc860 surplus powder in the 45-70 and using a small amount of fast powder to ignite it. shooting 1000 yard competition with it. I haven't loaded any 45-70s so I thought I would see what the experts know about this. if anybody has used this, what charge, and what fast powder for the duplex and how much of it? how about the slowest canister powders? I have about 40 lbs of the 860. maybe I need a 45-70. I wouldn't have thought you could use 860 in something like a 45-70. if anyone has used 860 in a 45-70, I would appreciate your comments.

[redneckdan]

I use 5 gr of red dot under 50gr of WC860 with a 350gr bullet. Burns clean, kicks them out at about 1600 FPS. To figure powder charge with a given bullet I estimate the case volume under a seated bullet, add 5gr of red dot then adjust the WC860 charge to given about 1/8" of powder compression.

[Maven]

flounderman, Ask 9.3x62Al, via a PM, about this (or search our archives under Deputy Al).

[waksupi]

I believe I was using 3031 for the kicker, but don't remember for sure. I was going for a velocity of 1180 fps, to match my BP loads. This with a Postell bullet. I don't know of any competitions that allow a modern powder load, but I have been out of that type competition for some years.

[9.3X62AL]

Still at it here, 6.0 grains of IMR-4198 underneath 48.0 grains of WC-860. This gives 100% loading density with the Lee 405 grain flatnose seated in R-P brass. Fed 215 primers. From the Ruger #1's 22" barrel, these run at 1873 velocities--about 1300 FPS. The powder burns completely.

This made sense when WC-860 cost $3/lb.

One other use for the WC-860 is in the 6.5 x 55 Swede. 100% density loads under 140 grain j-words gives OEM velocities--about 2475 FPS in my Ruger 77R. Burns clean, too.

[RayinNH]

I was using WC872. In the 45-70 I think WC872 and 860 perform pretty similarly. I used 3 grains of 4198 and 53 grains WC872 with the Lee 405 grain hollow base boolit. As Al said, trapdoor velocities. Groups for me averaged around 3.5"-4.5" for ten shots at a hundred yards out of a Buffalo Classic. I had to pay $4 a pound for mine. Still have three jugs left...Ray

[bigted]

good lord i hesitate to ask when you bought your powder. i dont know if i ever paid 3 or 4 dollors for a lbs of any kinda powder.best i can remember was 6.50 for a can of goex 3f and i never repeated that either. wish i had purchased 100 lbs at that price tho.

[wiljen]

Wasnt as long ago as you might suspect. I bought 7lbs cans of 7383 for $24 a can less than 5 years ago although looking at prices now it seems much longer.

[RayinNH]

I just checked my printouts from Pat's Reloading site, 5/6/2006.

Virgin WC872---8#-$36.00
WC860 pulldown---8-32.00
Surplus IMR 5010---8#-$28.00
IMR 7383---7#-$24.00
WC820 pulldown---8#-$54.00

Those were the good ol' days...Ray

[GabbyM]

Wideners has WC 867 and WC872 for $49 per 8lb jug. As of a few days ago.

Did you fellows use a magnum primer under those duplex loads?

[9.3X62AL]

Gabby--

Yessir, Federal #215 is a Magnum LR primer in the duplexed 4198/WC-860 loads for the 45-70.

I persist with these loads because they are so darn accurate in the #1. Of course, just about any black powder level load with the Lee 405 grain boolits shoots very well in that rifle.

[frank505]

I use 5 grains of 4759 and 50 grains of WC 860 in my rebarreled trapdoor. Need to chronograph as it shoots way over the berm at 550 yards when zeroed for black.

[Bass Ackward]

There are different ways to look at this.

You can simply look at the faster powder as getting the pressure up to burn the 860.

You can look at using a larger amount of a slower powder and the 860 as filler.

Or any points in between.

Duplexing is fairly straight forward and logical. It's when you get to triplexing that you better be careful.

[GabbyM]

Wideners states to use AA 8700 data for the 867 & 872. Looking in an old AA book they show a 60 grain load of 8700 under the RCBS 150 grain boolit for 2374 fps. I have both those items. Plus a pair of 26" barrel 243 AI rifles. All of which are big time over bore for a cast boolit shooter. Now the issue is I've already got a couple years woth of powder and primers. So how to convince myself to buy more stuff.

Wideners had WW LR mag primers or Wolf mags for $18. Wondering if the Wolf magnum LR primers are very hot at all? Probably be worth another $1 per 100 to get the WW primers.