Home brew lube & LBT Soft Blue

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Please know I am not trying to bad mouth Veral Smith's, LBT lube, but just reporting on what I am seeing at this point.

Working up loads with a 350gr LBT WFN boolit, I have arrived at my best load to date.

That load is 50gr. of IMR 4198 with my home brew lube.

Shooting the loads with Soft Blue and the H.B. the groups are tighter and more consistant with the H.B.

Started to suspect this a couple times ago, and the last two times on the bench have confirmed that finding.

Consistanly seeing 2150fps or a bit more.

Now if I could just find the reason for the fliers that keep mess'in up my groups.

Before the last bench session, I weighed out the WW boolits in about a 1 grain spread.

Today, I was working with a 2 grain spread and using a 20% line-o-type addition to the WW.

Used a thermometer for my casting session this last time - first time - and tried to keep my LBT mold from over heating.

The line-o-type addition didn't seem to make any difference in groups.

The efforts during the cast session, made for better boolits, but didn't stop the fliers.

And, OH ya the home brew lube ----------- Sorry can't be duplicated, :groner: Ooooops!

A year or so back I cleaned up a bunch of left over lubes and just threw everything into one pot. Have enough to last a long time for just the 45/70, but when it is gone, it is gone.

I do like the way the LBT soft blue sticks to the boolits when handling, when compared to the home brew, but groups win when I am talking hunt'in loads.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[runfiverun]

try less of your lube.
or a test of more b-wax.
you might be getting lube purge flyers which would indicate a viscosity issue.
if the flyers are pretty consistent [like every 6th one]. i'd point towards the purging.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Runfiverun,

Not sure I totally understand your lube purge suggestions.

Occasionally looking down the barrel - checking on the lead situation (very light to zero) - and never see anything that looks like lube in the bore ------

Or, I never see lube at the muzzle, typical of shooting lubed cast boolits from my handguns.

Would seem like if I had too much lube, I should be seeing some at the muzzle or possible on the chronograph or on the sky screen defusers.

I am not seeing any signs of lube flying off the boolits at those points.

After as many shots as I have put over the screens, I would think I should be seeing some lube in those locations if there was any hanging on.

Am I correct in this thinking???????????

Thanks,

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[geargnasher]

R5R said what I was thinking.

"Purge flyers" seem to occur whenever you have too much lube, the lube is too soft (low viscocity), or both. You won't notice by looking, but lube tends to accumulate a film in the bore which changes the friction characteristics of the boolit/bore interface. This accumulated film gets wiped out all at once every few shots, causing the flyers. I don't have much scientific proof that this is exactly what is happening, but I can sure tell you that simply using a firmer lube or a lube with less "lubricating oil" and more "carrier" will usually take care of those fliers, and patching between shots, then every second, every third, fourth, and so on will yield different amounts of lube on the patch, leading me to agree with the "purge flier" phenom.

Lube can also be a problem if it's too hard for the pressures and stays on the boolit after muzzle exit, sometimes flinging of a chunk or two and causing an imbalance which affects accuracy. I don't think that's likely at 2150 fps in a .45-bore even with a very slow twist, but the lube should be spattering everything around the muzzle. Humour me if you would, next time you're out shooting with your home-brew lube, shoot through a clean piece of cardboard placed about three feet in front of the muzzle to catch any lube blast, if there isn't any evidence of lube on the cardboard I would advise a switch to a softer lube that blows off at muzzle exit.

Gear

[Larry Gibson]

I've only used LBT Blue soft in loads from 1900 fps up through 2600+ fps in 3 different cartridges (6.5 Swede, .308W, "06, 8mm and 45-70) in 12 different rifles. I have tried filling all the grooves and only some of the grooves. I have tried Loverns and bore riders. In every single case accuracy was always better with Carnauba Red, 2500+ and mostly with Javelina. I doubt will try LBT Blue Soft again. Yes I know some of you swear by it but all I've done is swear because of it. Just my experience.

Larry Gibson

[leadman]

I add 15% beeswax by weight to the LBT Blue Soft now. Makes it firmer and is less messy to use. No problem with accuracy, runs right with Carnuba Red but allows higher velocities. I have hit 3.000 fps in the 22 k-Hornet, not a load that is easy on brass or for hot weather!

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Larry,

I read your post as speaking of three different lubes, Carnuba Red, 2500+ and Javelina.

Is that correct?

I do like the fact that the LBT soft blue stays in the grooves better then my home brew. The home brew does loose some lube during handling, but the LBT lube really stays put.

What about the ones you have listed?

Thanks for the info!!!!! folks.

I have used home brew for years and it always served me well, but this rifle shoot'in is a different ballgame with the much higher velocities and wanting nice huntable groups.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Larry Gibson]

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

I read your post as speaking of three different lubes, Carnuba Red, 2500+ and Javelina.

Is that correct?

That is correct.

I do like the fact that the LBT soft blue stays in the grooves better then my home brew. The home brew does loose some lube during handling, but the LBT lube really stays put.

What about the ones you have listed?

Carnauba Red is a harder lube and sticks well. It requires a heater for the lubrasizer unless the ambiant temperature is pretty warm other wise a lot of strain is put on the sizer. 2500 and Javelina are soft lubes. I place rifle bullets in small boxes after sizing/lubing so they sand up in rows. Pistol bullets I just put into a box. The lube is sticky but I have no problems with it coming off to any degree. In warmer weather when the loading room is above 70 degrees I place them in the freezer for about 30 minutes before loading them into the case necks. That hardens the lube so they handle easily. The benifit to the softer lube is a wider range of velocity with no leading (200 to 2600+ fps) and accuracy is better with HV loads because the lube spins off immediately when the bullet leaves the barrel. I've found the harder wax lubes to spin off in chunks which unbalances the bullet. That seems to be the problem with LBT Blue soft that I have had.

Larry Gibson

[geargnasher]

'Coot, Larry knows what he's talking about, take a think about soft lubes, you want a lube-free boolit as soon as possible after muzzle exit.

Gear

[Dale53]

I have been using Carnauba Red for some time on pistol bullets with complete success. It requires a heater to apply. It is much less sticky than my previous "standard", NRA 50/50 lube. Further, it has a higher melting point. It is very reasonable in cost.

I am about out of it but a friend gave me a box of LBT Blue (he quit casting bullets). I will give it a try. I am expecting good results (many have reported this). If it works, I'll use it. When it runs out I'll go back to Carnauba Red.

Dale53

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Thanks again for all the info coming this way.

Think I need to look for some other lube, maybe 2500+ of Javelina.

Don't want to need a heater if I can avoid it.

And I keep seeing/hearing about lube which hangs on to the boolit being a problem.

Maybe,?? that is why my home brew is shoot'in better then the LBT soft blue.

I suspect it is spinning off rather quickly.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Bass Ackward]

I am about out of it but a friend gave me a box of LBT Blue (he quit casting bullets). I will give it a try. I am expecting good results (many have reported this). If it works, I'll use it. When it runs out I'll go back to Carnauba Red. Dale53


Good Luck. I don't care for it for normal pressure stuff or in larger bores where the peak is shorter. Now if you are stressing a design or mix, it will shine, but somehow, I don't get that from you. Now if you melt that stick and add 1/2 teaspoon of vaseline, (ala Veral) then you have Blue Soft that is quite good actually but can be messy. Get it too soft just add paraffin. Just depends on the bore condition and load.

ol'C,

I ran a lube test with a design and got one answer. 4k rounds and change later I ran the test again and the results flipped. Bore condition will change results. Temperature will change results. Time in a fired bore will change results. Designs will change results. Hardness will change results. Beginning to see a pattern here?

There was a time here that people sent me batches of lubes to try for some reason and at that time, I formed opinions on a single test. Now I am using them up and some opinions have changed. I have run tests on multiple designs and mixes and loads only to find one definite conclusion: There is no way to adequately try lube for every possible set of combinations. There is no way to predict either UNLESS you use one lube enough under multiple conditions. If it works, I'll use it till it's gone or I try something else.

So I now define myself as a "lube ****". I'll use anything much the same as if I grab another can of powder. Change temperature range and I will switch to something else. No brand loyalty here.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Thanks Bass Ackward,

I have been thinking I have seen some of these changes, temp, bore condition etc.

Veral Smith has gotten back to be over on Graybeard Outdoors, so with all the help I am getting, I think I will get it ironed out. I hope.

Not planning on winning competitions, just want a good and relyable hunting load.

Thanks,

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot