New to rifle reloading - die questions

[jeff423]

I've reloaded straight wall pistol cases for several years now and understand that process. I'm going to start 30-06 soon and have questions about die sets. I have several questions:

Hornady and RCBS have 2-die sets. Lee and Redding have 3 die sets.
Does this mean that in the 3 die sets you "full length" size and "neck" size in different steps?
Do you always do a full length resize or only if you are reusing other brass?
I'm also confused by "collet" and "neck" sizing.
Do all these die sets seat and crimp in the same step as is illustrated in my Hornady manual?

Thanks,

Jeff

[Firebricker]

The Lee three die set is a full length sizer and a seating die the third is the factory crimp die. The Lee collet die is a neck sizing die that uses a collet system to squeeze the neck into spec instead of running into a standerd die to resize.

Redding three die rifle set's are full length resizing die, neck resizing die and seating die. All of the dies you mention are able to crimp with the seating die.

You can neck size with a FL die by backing it out a few turns. I usually FL resize since I use my rifle loads for hunting. You can usually get tighter groups experimenting with neck sizing but you need to FL size if using brass from another rifle to form to your chamber.

A lot of reloader's don't crimp rifle round's at all unless it's a caliber with extreme recoil or in a tubular magizine. Just have to find what works best in your particular rifle.

The Lee FCD has worked well for me on .223 it's not the same as a pistol FCD. The rifle FCD uses a collet to squeeze the crimp in place which makes it very forgiving if your case lengths vary a little. FB

[HeavyMetal]

IN your position I would buy the Lee Deluxe 4 die set.

This will have a full length sizer die, to use on brass you have not fired in your gun and a collet neck sizing die for the brass you have fired in your gun.

Hopefully you have been keeping fired brass. If so continue to keep it seperate from any "donations" you recieve from other sources until you can full length size it and fire it in your gun.

I will also suggest a tin of Imperial sizing die wax. This is the best case lube on the market and just the ticket for a newbie reloader. Use it only t full length size and only put just a touch on the edge of the case neck and case body never put it on or allow it on the shoulder of the case it will cause crease's and wrinkle in the brass.

This is true of any case lube by the way!

Imperial is very easy to remove after sizing tumbling in untreated corn cob is best and adds a nice finish to the brass.

I usually tumble my case's size as needed and then tumble again if I had to lube them. I then decap using a universal de capping die, also made by Lee, and then trim to length and process the primer pockets if it's my first time loading this particular lot of case's.

If these are case's I have already processed then a quick tumble in corn cob and I run them trough the collet neck sizing die. No lube, no fuss, and no muss!

Then I can continue loading as I need them.

[David2011]

Hi Jeff,

It hasn't been too long that I was in the same position. I've loaded pistol since the late '70s but just started loading rifle a few years ago. The two die sets are typical. The first die decaps, resizes and lastly expands the case neck to the right inside diameter. You either size full length or you neck size only; not both. You didn't say what rifle you're reloading for and that can affect the answers. If you're loading for an autoloader you have to full length size. If you're loading he same cartridge for multiple rifles you have to full length size. Lever actions require full length sizing. Neck sizing is for single shot and bolt action rifles when the brass will only be used in one rifle. The idea is that the brass precisely fits that one chamber which adds to the accuracy. The neck has to be sized for proper tension around the bullet. Some neck sizers are one piece dies. Others have interchangeable collets to tune the sizing to the wall thickness of the brass. The ID is pretty much fixed for most of us.

Those loading for extreme accuracy like benchrest and 1000 yard shooters go much farther than the average reloader when it comes to neck OD, brass wall thickness and neck ID. This is based on how I load for "pretty good" accuracy, not fighting for one hole groups but satisfied with under half inch groups that are not one ragged hole with my most accurate rifle. Actually, when I built the rifle I was just hoping to be inside one inch at 100 yards.

Most rifle loading does not require a crimp. The mouth is not flared as with pistol loading so it doesn't have to be closed back in. The tension provided by the expander ball in the sizing die controls how tightly the bullet is held. Even with the violent reloading action of my Garand there is no need to crimp. Lever action cartridges and cartridges for a tubular feed in any action should be crimped to prevent bullet setback due to recoil. Lee produces collet type "Factory Crimp Dies" that evenly snug the neck around the bullet, available for a lot of cartridges. I use one for .223 for an AR-15 because I have it. Not sure I would go out and buy one again but it is reassuring that I won't have a bullet set back and overpressure the cartridge. Lots of people load for the AR and don't crimp.

Both Lee and Redding deluxe rifle dies include a neck sizer and a FL sizer so you use one or the other depending on the rifle.

Note that after sizing with either type of sizing die you need to measure the length of the brass and trim to the minimum length if the max has been exceeded. The Lee trimmer is inexpensive and easy to use. Brass that is too long can extend beyoned its alotted space in the chamber and not have enough room to let the bullet go without undue restriction. If the mouth of the cartridge gets into the leade pressure can skyrocket and cause catastrophic pressure failures.

David

[jeff423]

Thanks for all the help. I'll be reloading for a Browning BBR (bolt action). I'll only be reloading for that rifle. I'm starting with new brass so should I full length resize the new brass the first time and then neck size after that?
I've got a Lee case trimmer so I'll get the 30-06 parts for it.

Jeff

[Larry Gibson]

jeff423

I'll be reloading for a Browning BBR (bolt action). I'll only be reloading for that rifle. I'm starting with new brass so should I full length resize the new brass the first time and then neck size after that?
I've got a Lee case trimmer so I'll get the 30-06 parts for it.


I'm going to suggest you get the RCBS X-Die set (standard, not the small base). That gives you the full lenght die and a seater. With the FL X-die you will not have to trim after sizing. I always FL size new cases just to get consitent case size or at least a consistent neck tension.

If you neck size you will only have to do it (given the cases are all for the same rifle) when the bolt becomes hard to close. With normal range cast bullet loads I've yet to run into this yet with a bolt action rifle. With higher pressure j bullet loads you will need to FL every 7 - 10 or so firings. Thus for a neck sizer I recommend the Lee collet die, the Bonanza Bench rest die or the Redding die. BTW; if the cases are well cleaned then no sizing lube is needed when NS'ing.

Then when loading just clean the cases, neck size and deprime, clean primer pocket, inspect the case, use M die, prime and then load.

If the cases become to hard chamber without force (there will be some resistance to closing the bolt on NS'd cases) then FL size them and go shoot them some more.

Larry Gibson

[1hole]

I don't think Lee has a four die rifle set.

Their RGB two die sets have a conventional FL sizer and seater without a shell holder.

The Pacesetter set has the FL and seater plus it includes a seperate collet crimp die and a shell holder.

The Delux sets have a shell holder, FL and seater plus it has a collet type neck sizer but no crimper.

I get good service and can do anything I wish with the Delux sets plus a crimper, which can be purchased alone.

Case trimming with the Lee tool is quick and easy enough for me.