Casting for ML

[WCF3030]

Who here cast there own for muzzle loaders.
I've a T/C Renagade that was given to me by my father and I'd like to cast maxi-ball for it given the outrages price that T/C asks for them.
Will WW work just fine?
Any certain moulds to use?
:drinks:

[Buckshot]

.................You're gonna want pretty soft lead as the slug will need to upset into the grooves. Depending on the charge and boolit wieght, width and depth of the grooves you might be able to harden it up some. It'll require testing.

If it's a 54 cal I have a SC mould for a Maxi (I think it's a Maxi). I thought I had a photo of it but I guess I deleted it. If you're interested in it, I think it's a T/C mould, made by Lyman.

Buckshot

[Pawpaw]

+1 what Buckshot said. For muzzleloading, use dead soft lead.

[Lloyd Smale]

ive gone down as far as 5050 ww/pure but wouldnt go any harder then that.

[7br]

You also might consider the Lee REAL bullet. I use the .50cal 250grain with my T/C scout carbine and pistol (1 in 38 twist). Be aware of the twist rate and if it is fairly slow, go with a lighter bullet or to a round ball.

[ktw]

Who here cast there own for muzzle loaders.
Will WW work just fine?
Any certain moulds to use?

I cast round balls and REALs for 45, 50 and 54 caliber muzzleloaders. I have been using Lee DC molds in all cases.

You will want something significantly softer than wheelweights for conicals. You might be able to get away with WW for roundballs, but pure lead is likely to load/shoot better.

Given the difficulty some people seem to be having finding WW in some parts of the country, I have found that there are individuals out there willing to swap their pure lead ingots for my WW ingots via flat rate boxes.

-ktw

[Maven]

WCF3030, Make sure the bases of the Maxi-Balls are perfect for peak accuracy. Also use a good BP lube and then dry patch the bore after seating and prior to capping, to insure accuracy. If you can find a punch large enough, you can try cutting cardboard "wads" to seat on top of the powder charge before you seat the Maxi-. Lastly for target work, I push a dry patch through the bore after each firing, but that isn't always necessary. Hope this helps!

[montana_charlie]

I use the .50cal 250grain with my T/C scout carbine and pistol (1 in 38 twist). Be aware of the twist rate and if it is fairly slow, go with a lighter bullet or to a round ball.
The .50 cal. Renegade uses the same twist (1 in 48) as the .45 & .50 TC Hawken. (I assume the .54 had the same.)

That twist is slow enough to get good results with a patched ball...and fast enough to stabilize a conical (of the right length) for hunting bigger game.

The Maxi-Ball was designed by TC for that rate of twist.

But, the top ring must engrave the rifling when you load, and the rest of the bullet must bump up when fired.

Since you don't have neck tension to play with, and retarding a bullet by seating it out against the lands does not apply in this case...pure lead (or as close as you can get) is the only 'good' choice.

Back in my muzzle loader days, I never even heard about 'alloys'.
Now, having a bit of familiarity with some of them...30 to 1 lead/tin is absolutely the hardest I would use in that Renegade.

(While digging around for information on twist, found that I still have some of the 'prizes' picked up with that old .45 Hawken...)
CM

[Bman]

My experience with the Lee REAL has been great. I'm shooting a CVA 1-48 twist. Personally I have had good luck with WW for alloy. I do use 777 for powder and maybe it hits hard enough to bump them up. I did a penetration test on a dry clay back stop. Pure lead flattened way out and penetrated about 3". The WW bullet wnet over twice as deep, nearly 7".

[7br]

I really had to hunt and peck to find the right bullet for my scout. Started with the T/C maxi-hunters and they were all over the place. The maxiballs were worse and then came across some 245 gr ballets. Can't remember who made them. The 250gr lee came through for me. My experience only, your mileage may vary.

[WCF3030]

Thanks fellas for the info.
I have some pure lead and will go that route.
I also talked to a forum member on the phone and got some sound advice.:mrgreen:

[omgb]

If it's a 50 cal, I have a SAECO 4 hole mould for maxiballs. While pure lead has been the metal of choice for lots of years, I discovered when i began loading for the 45-90 and 50-110 express that a mix of 18 lbs plumber's lead (pure) with 1lb of 50-50 solder gave a composition that was soft enough to bump up and obturate the grooves upon firing and it had just enough tin to make casting much easier. A smidgen of tin, as little as 1 part in 30, will lower the casting temp, make bullets fill out better, eliminate wrinkles and prevent internal voids, all of which pure lead bullets are prone to develope.

If you are interested in that 4 hole mould, PM and maybe we can work out a deal.

[omgb]

I forgot to add, if it's a 45, i have a maxiball mould for that too.

[44woody]

WCF3030 if you have a 50 cal I have 3 kinds of bullets (1) round ball (2)lee real bullet (3) a maxie ball if you would like I will send you some of each to test in your gun the only thing I ask is you pay the shipping they are made out of soft lead :castmine: 44Woody

[mooman76]

I use WW and they shoot good out of my CVA with a 1/48" twist but with the hardness of the lead my palm gets sore after awhile from driving them (Lee REAL bullets)in.

[WCF3030]

T:mrgreen: hank yor for the offers of 50cal moulds but my rifle is a 54cal.
If had bought one new it would have been in 50. just for the simple fact that almost every where I look its 50cal and I have to order 54.
But it was given to me by my father so I intend to keep it and hunt with it.:Fire:
Thanks again.

[georgeld]

When I first got a bp, it's a .54 CVA 32" twist.
Shoots great with 300gr REALs cast from hard stuff, same as I use for pistol bullets.
At first I didn't know any better and cast a 3# coffee can full before ever trying one in it.

Was hard to get started in the muzzle. Ended up having the muzzle relief bored, for $20. Since then it loads just fine with bore butter.

Shoots better than I can see to do it. They'll hit every shot out to 175yds from the bench on steel silhoette's. But, hard to hit the ram at 200yds. Twice out of seven shots.
BUT: It still has plenty of velocity as it flattened them out to half dollar size. Way too far to shoot at game, but, would still have enough to do a job on a deer.

Far as balls go, hard is just as good for plinking and targets, or match game's.

Just my experience, IF I had it to do over I'd made them softer yes. Especially IF/When I take it hunting they'll be softer.

But, too many were cast to just melt down. That's why I've been using them. Old eye's can't do much better than 4" @100yds and these will do that well. Younger eye's and shooters have made under 2" five shot groups with them.

One thing I like about REAL's you don't need to clean the bore, they'll clean it real well when loading. I've shot over 60 thru this gun without a patch at all with the REAL bullets, cant' do that with balls, that's for sure.

Wish you well,

[HEAD0001]

I would not use WW. You need to find a source for pure lead. You should not harden the lead. I like the RCBS adjustable Hotchkiss mold. It allows you to adjust the size, and thus the weight of the bullet. I pour my 50 caliber at 525 grains. For elk I shoot 120 grains of FFFG black powder. For deer I load 80 grains of FFFG black powder. The poor animals never know what hit them, Tom.

[corvette8n]

I tried the LEE Real in 50 cal with pure lead
but it only rattled around in my bore, sold the mold on ebay
They looked nice thougth.
my muzzleloader like power belts the best.

[mparks]

I still use the original Maxi-ball in my .50 and .54 since they have shot best for me and I have the moulds. Now that I know more about meplats and what not the bullet design doesn't look the greatest on paper with the pointy noise but they kill deer just fine and punch a 1/2" hole throuh everything. The Maxi-hunter looks like a better design but I didn't have much luck with them.

I could cast you 20 or so from my .54 mould if you interested. The softest lead I have measures a 3 on the Saeco scale. I need to cast some anyway so payment for shipping is all I would request. PM me if you're interested. I have a round ball mould in .54 as well I believe.

[versifier]

My .54 Renegade likes Maxiballs and I have been casting them out of pure lead for it since the 70's. I got a GM .54 drop-in for it just for fun and like it a lot, too. I tried all kinds of different combinations in both to see which liked what best. Both do well with MaxiBalls (T/C 3"@100, GM 1.5"@100), the GM does rb's a lot better, (1"@100) and both also do very well with T/C's bulk sabots stuffed with Lee 452-228's (2-3"@100). You might have to size the .45's to make seating easier. I cast them out of pure as they expand better, but you could use WW for them as the plastic sabot does the "bumping up". Every rifle is different, though, so try as many different combinations as you can get your hands on.
Why anyone would want a .50 for hunting when you could have a .54 I cannot understand. Yes, there are a lot more choices in rifles and projectiles, but most of the rifles now are inlines, and most of the projectiles are just jacketed handgun bullets in .44cal. The .54 sabots hold .45's, and there is a fantastic choice of bullets available, jacketed and cast, and probably better choice of cast from light little plinkers for the ACP to big honking moose stoppers for the big Casull cases. And you get larger and heavier rb's, and a good selection of MaxiBalls, MaxiHunters, Reals, Plains, Buffalos, most of which you can get moulds for without special ordering.
If you get into your Renegade as much as I got into mine, you should consider a T/C or Williams tang mounted Peep sight, and installing a good recoil pad to make it even more fun to shoot. I generally use Pyrodex now as I can get it much more easily, and have also switched to musket caps for better ignition (just a simple nipple replacement).