Molten lead anneling experiment

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
After reading about this process lasy year on cast boolits, I decided to try of the process for my self.
So I had :
350 -7MM/06 R-P cases just fired of which 7 had split.
50 cases of 25/06, 270, & 30/06 ww,sears,herders, S&W, & military bras from my daughters rifles.

I cut off a #10 can, & melted 10 lbs of pure lead into it, on a electric hot plate. lead was Dental X-ray film & stick on tire wts.

After Lead was Hot enough to cast 8 -44, 4- 7mm, & 8-357 boolits for sluging barrels, I sat down to start the process of annelling.
This part took 4+ hrs.
at least 3 times as long as it would have taken by the old propain tourch method!!!!!
Burned myself once.
Results:
It does work.
Loss of almost 1/2-1 lb. of lead.
It stuck to the cases. Yes , i used dirty cases as it was suggested in the thread last yr.
CLEANING THE CASES TOOK ANOTHER 2 HRS.!!!!!!
Some of the lead came off easy as I threw the cases in the water bucket.
Some more came off as I emptied the bucket, & racked the brass for drying .
Some came off when i tumbled the brass. THIS WAS THE EASY PART!
I LATER SPENT 2 HRS. W/ A SHARP KNIFE WITTELING OFF THE REST OF THE LEAD from the case necks & shoulders!!!!!!!!
What a PITA!
I WILL PROBIBLY NOT USE THIS METHDOE AGAIN.

[Recluse]

I sat down to start the process of annelling.
This part took 4+ hrs.
at least 3 times as long as it would have taken by the old propain tourch method!!!!!

What a PITA!
I WILL PROBIBLY NOT USE THIS METHDOE AGAIN.

:)

I still use the same method I was taught years and years ago.

I set up a tray filled with water on my work table in the shop. I pull all the shades then turn out the lights. I have night lights out there so it never gets anywhere close to pitch-black dark. I like the cases to be annealed up in the wooden loading blocks, grab my propane torch and leather gloves and away I go.

I rotate the case in my gloved hand while rolling the propane flame over it. As soon as I see it begin to change color (the brass case), I drop it in the water tray, grab another case and repeat.

The old-timer that taught me this twenty-something years ago advised doing it in the dark as he said if you can start to see the brass glowing or changing colors in the regular/daylight, you're probably getting the brass too hot.

:coffee:

[Tom Myers]

HI,
I WILL PROBIBLY NOT USE THIS METHDOE AGAIN.

Last week I filled my Lyman 20 pound pot with 1/20 tin/lead alloy to within 1 inch of the top and brought it up to 750 degrees.

I had a piece of 5/8" x 4 1/2" pine board that I drilled five 1/2'' holes in.

I also had a bowl of Stihl 2 cycle engine oil thinned with an equal amount of kerosene.

Placing five 40-65 cases in the 1/2" holes, I dipped the case necks in the thinned oil, shook off the excess then placed the board on top of the pot full of alloy until the case heads were hot to the touch. After 15 seconds I could still hold my finger on a case head so I immersed each batch of 5 cases for a count of 15 seconds.

The cases entered the lead melt about 0.7"

After the 15 count, I removed the case necks from the melt and turning the board over, tapped the annealed cases from the board into a large flat pan to cool.

I did 100 cases in about 30 minutes and there was not a speck of lead adhering to any of the cases. Just some cruddy brown oil. By the way, these cases were clean with the interior cases necks shined up by spinning a bronze bore brush in them.

After a couple of hours in the the tumbler, the cases were bright and shiny and ready to load.

Every bullet seated with the same pressure and the run-out was half of what I normally would get without annealing the cases. In fact, about 75% of the loaded rounds had less than 0.001" runout on my RCBS Case Master and none were over 0.0025". For me, that is pretty darn good.

I am sold on annealing after each firing.

That rifle has never shot so accurately before. ( I placed 1st in the Harris, Mn. Buffalo Match with those cases last weekend).

Did I mention that I am really sold on annealing ?

[docone31]

I have used molten lead to soften steel hammer heads, and then water quench them to reharden.
I am not so sure about annealing cases that way though.
Worked real well for the steel.

[Mk42gunner]

George Nonte recommended in the 1976 Gun Digest, (I just reread it this morning, gotta love having old reference material), to dip the cases in either light oil or powdered graphite, prior to annealing in lead for a four or five seconds; just enough to produce a bluish-brown color.


Robert

[lwknight]

Boom Boom , Its been a long time since I annealed cases in lead or anything for that matter. In retrospect , I think that I was using RCBS case lube or more likely a silicone spray for sizing.

The residue probably kept any lead from sticking. I dipped the cases for no more than 5 seconds then tossed then in a bin of some sort. I cannot remember if I sized the cases before or after annealing. I think it was before and the primer would have stopped lead from entering the case mouth because of expanding gas ( air ) .
The whole thing was faster than messing with the torch. I do remember that much.
I do remember that the torch was for me a better way to get burned than dipping in lead.

You might b hard headed and try one more time with lubed brass and you do not need to keep them under very long at all. 4-5 seconds will do it.

Also , use pliers.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
AH HA! NO ONE MENTIONED DIPPING THE CASES IN OIL OR GRAPHITE!!!!!! @#$%^&*
I was usuing gloves after the 1st case. I did not size & deprime as I wanted the cases dirty, also I did not want the lead to go inside the neck-
THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN A REAL JOY TO CLEAN UP!
I also switched to using needle noze pliers V. EARLY in the process.
I also may have held the cases in the lead too long I was doing 30 seconds.:sad:
Any more tricks of the trade for this process?????????????????????

[montana_charlie]

I also may have held the cases in the lead too long I was doing 30 seconds.
That makes it easy to see why you switched to pliers...
CM

[rhead]

Hold the case in bare fingers and let your hand tell you when it has been in the lead long enough. The case wil conduct the heat to your fingers on the base in the time it takes to anneal the case neck. (does not work for pistol cases.)

[lwknight]

I guess I just figured for granted that by saying " dirty brass " that it had been lubed and loaded prior to being dirty brass so the residue from the last loading would be still there . LOL.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
Well just did 100 R-P 7MM/06 the old propain tourch way , easy & no clean up.
These I did size & deprime 1st.

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

I'm all new to rifle loading . . . what is the benefit of annealing the necks?

Softer, harder, stronger . . . is it only certain kinds of rounds . . . ?

I'm gonna be starting to load for .270 win, and 7.62X39 . . .

[lwknight]

123 Diesel , It keeps them soft and less likely to split. It also makes for uniform neck tension on the bullets git go.
Longer case life and as some say " better accuracy " .

[NSP64]

Boom Boom, I feel your pain. I use the propane torch method.

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

123 Diesel , It keeps them soft and less likely to split. It also makes for uniform neck tension on the bullets git go.
Longer case life and as some say " better accuracy " .

So is this best done before sizing?

[lwknight]

Probably its not so impotant as to when you anneal the case since most poeple do not anneal at every loading anyway. It does make sense that it would be at least a little better to anneal before sizing but on the other hand , it would be annealed just before fireing.
Hmm.. points to ponder?

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
ANELLING is somthing you do mostly to extend case life .
For example most brass will start splitting at the case neck or shoulder, depending on how much you work the brass & how hot your loads are, this can occure somewhere around the 10-15th loading.
So to save the brass(extend case life) we heat the case necks/shoulder. NOT THE CASE HEAD/BASE.
Norma back in the 60's did this w/ 1 case as an experiment, & was able to fire it 90 times.
with the propaine tourch method I size & deprime 1st. as I want the water I set the cases in to be both on the inside & outside of the case about 1/2 way up the case.

[376Steyr]

I've tried the molten lead/motor oil method a long time ago. I'd suggest doing this outside, as I recall I got a lot of smoke from the process.